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Quote from: demografx on 09/03/2009 20:13:28B_Jim, Counterpoints, Girlwind...everyone, I know I repeat this, but aren't exhaustion and fatigue predominant in defining POIS, not "also rans"? I thought cognitive symptoms were secondary.No, exhaustion should not be used to define POIS. I think we should be general... POIS is characterized by severe symptoms following orgasm.Also, cognitive symptoms are not secondary. We see some cognitive symptoms reported in almost every case. Cognitive symptoms may be secondary to your specific case, though. (Is that so?).And exhaustion could be considered a cognitive symptom. (What do you mean by "also rans"?).
B_Jim, Counterpoints, Girlwind...everyone, I know I repeat this, but aren't exhaustion and fatigue predominant in defining POIS, not "also rans"? I thought cognitive symptoms were secondary.
Mental and physical exhaustion is already listed on the wiki article as a primary symptom, with a note that some people with the general cognitive symptom cluster (brain fog, etc.) do not experience this specific symptom. (This was recently revised. Before the note said some people experienced the opposite effect, but I think the present explanation is more clear). It's (and it was) in italics; there is even special emphasis on this point.Also, as I've noted, 'exhaustion' can be considered a cognitive symptom. And I have read most of the cases here. I came at p. 27 of 164, and when I arrived, I read through the first 27 pages. I've also studied the survey responses. I don't remember everything I've read -- maybe someone else remembers better than me -- and I'm sure I've missed things, but I am relatively 'aware' of what has been reported. And based on what I remember, I am not in disagreement. What is the apparent disagreement?
TYROSINE EXPERIMENT(P.S. Thank you all for your support and kind advice) 
Glad to hear your treatment is still working Demo
Martin, I don't think most MD's have been exposed to POIS, so the risk may be small to label us as psychological. Perhaps you are influenced by OUR experiences with MD's, but we are only a small fraction of the mainstream population.
Counterpoints, I think people would look at your list, below, as being in descending order of importance. That's the way most people read lists.Exhaustion, below, unfortunately looks like an afterthought, buried as it is in a followon paragraph. And then followed by the energetic exceptions!I think Exhaustion belongs at the very top where difficulty communicating is placed.Most commonly reported symptoms:difficulty communicating (possibly a temporary aphasia) word-finding difficulty anxiety irratibility social phobia inability to relax short term memory problems inability to focus (attention deficit) lack of spontaneity or creativity cravings for the relief that follows orgasm slow to process information overall cognitive impairment (brain fog) Most POIS sufferers report the above symptoms, regardless of whether they have some of the additional symptoms listed below. Another frequently occuring symptom is exhaustion, either mental or physical. However, there are several cases of people with the above symptom cluster who do not feel exhaustion.Thanks, Counterpoints, for listening (reading )
Quote from: demografx on 10/03/2009 05:55:53Martin, I don't think most MD's have been exposed to POIS, so the risk may be small to label us as psychological. Perhaps you are influenced by OUR experiences with MD's, but we are only a small fraction of the mainstream population.Could it be "most MD who have seen pois cases"?If I remember well, there was also a MD from TNS who suggested to investigate with psychiatrists instead of endocrinologists. Pois is only based on observations (empiricism), even by Dr Waldinger, and need a medical study to confirm that it's not psychological (what we almost all feel/know already).
COUNTERPOINTS, one way to combat this built-in bias of import/descent is alphabetical sequence!
B_Jim, that was very enlightening, thank you! So how can we make "tiredness" more predominant without losing wiki credibility?? And do you agree that tiredness/exhaustion/fatigue is predominant across the 200 cases?
To summarise, i can definately feel an improvement with the Tyrosine supplementation.This leads me to believe that my POIS symptoms stem from low Dopamine. If this is so, would i not benefit more from drugs called Dopamine agonists? Any thoughts?
Quote from: goingcrazy on 09/03/2009 22:20:57what else helps a lot for pois, anxiety and all these other conditions is Rhodiola Rosea... Try It.GC, tell us more about your experience with it.
what else helps a lot for pois, anxiety and all these other conditions is Rhodiola Rosea... Try It.
A small adenoma was found on my pituitary.
I intended to give my Day 3 report of my Tyrosine experiment, however in light of Counterpoint's news, i'm not sure i would feel right delivering the update to you all.However, if people are okay with it, then i will provide the Day 3 update.ThanksAmbient
Counterpoints, I wish you quick, complete and painless recovery.I have been following up my body responses post "O" and have been looking out for symptoms. I do have brain fog, worsened anxiety problems and high stress for few days after. I also have good amount of physical exhaustion and problems. The cortisol theory looks logical. Interestingly, I had come across an article that talks about "dormant virus" in the nerve endings that could wake up when immunity levels are low and cause various problems to the body. This seemed aligned to the physical symptoms I have had on POIS (Except that I could not see an explicit Shingles as in the article, but have had psoriasis attack few months ago). The attached link is: http://www.painfoundation.org/ManageYourPain/Shingles/PhysicalMental.pdf [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register]
I remember pyropeach mentioning something (possibly?) similar on his pituitary? Maybe if he reads this, he could provide some more info.
I found this on wikipedia.org - interesting: if oxytocin and prolactin are responsible for the refractory period maybe these chemicals are related to our symptoms....
Interesting idea tarkington as my own prolactin levels are slightly elevated due to a small (4mm) growth on my pituitary.
Quote from: Counterpoints on 11/03/2009 17:46:23I remember pyropeach mentioning something (possibly?) similar on his pituitary? Maybe if he reads this, he could provide some more info.I found the following and, hope you don't mind, I PM'd pyro to see if he can add anything to this:Quote from: tarkington on 01/10/2008 01:26:41I found this on wikipedia.org - interesting: if oxytocin and prolactin are responsible for the refractory period maybe these chemicals are related to our symptoms....Quote from: pyropeach on 01/10/2008 01:26:41Interesting idea tarkington as my own prolactin levels are slightly elevated due to a small (4mm) growth on my pituitary.
Demo - That's freakin awesome, congratulations!! On my next visit to my doctor, which is next week, I will definitely try to get another test for testosterone.
3 months ago I had an appointment for yesterday with a new doctor. I went there and I said I'm only here to have these tests and I gave my list. It was a 45-50 y old woman, she told me "no problem I'll give you all" ! I have a blood and a urine test for cortisol but I realize now it's not written 24h.., does anyone know if a urine test is always 24h ? otherwise I must go back. Then she started to investigate my case and concluded it's psychological, it's a depression . I had a NE two days ago and she saw me morally down. I said her I won't be like that in two weeks and she talked about bipolar disorder. I gave her the paper from Dr Waldinger and she started to read the begining and put it under other papers saying "I'm late I don't have time, I'll read it later" In fact I didn't really want to give her this paper I wanted the tests only and I have them. So I think when you see a doctor, the first thing you say is very important.
First i want to show a "funny" study i found :http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090126082343.htm [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register]http://www.livescience.com/health/090126-masturbation-prostate.html [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register]I do no matter of this study but i only find this funny to see how one of famous argument used by anti-Pois people is seriously damaged now. The reality is scientific knowledge about orgasm is at its begining .So deying Pois is absolutely stupid.---Yesterday i had another orgasm (NE). Dispite I had few symptoms compared to my state 6 months ago(no sugar ) I realized how orgasm affects my immune system. I caught an intestinal flu so quickly and so easily... Of course I will never know I would have it without the 2 orgasms... So, I think it and I would like to give a chance to plants and why not Alpha20C. I don't know if it is available in my area.It's not easy to find what is the starting point of Pois. Immune systeme is linked to hormones too (testo/cortisol <=> immune system for example). That's a complex mechanism...Improve my immune system is my priority and sugar my favorite suspect. ---Hi, Pyro. Thanks for PS report and congratulations. I add it to database.Thanks to all solutions testers. You can send me updates by PM if you want.This could be the advantage of creating a new website to have an easy tool to follow all suferers diary.