Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4150 on: 22/04/2009 00:02:01 »

Question... how long does it normally take for others to feel the affects? I feel them within minutes.


Effects of POIS? Minutes for me.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4151 on: 22/04/2009 00:09:15 »
Underwater, strange I thought I posted this before. Oh, well.

I have Cortizone-10, but the itching occurs underneath the testosterone patch. But thankfully, it doesn't happen too often.

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Offline nTonic

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4152 on: 22/04/2009 14:08:09 »
Hi everyone,

Since the last time I posted I tried Clarityn. Unfortunately it didn't help.

Recently I decided to give Relora a try. I first tried taking it two times a day, and one tablet a time. It made me incredibly tired. So I tried to take one tablet after release and before I sleep. Usually, the sleep after release was of very bad quality and I would wake up with sore eyes and fatigue. But the day after relora was okay and I didn't oversleep as well. However, on that day I had a near-migraine attack (I suspected it was the DHEA that caused an imbalance of estrogen).

But I thought since it didn't kill me I might as well try again. So two days ago after release I took one tablet and slept. Again, I didn't oversleep but woke up like 6 hours later (usually I oversleep after release and felt as if I didn't sleep for 3 days after waking up), feeling strange and decided to sleep for 2 more hours. That was the most restful 2 hours I had ever had after an orgasm! The whole day I felt quite refreshed, without sore eyes and back pain.

So yesterday night I tried again (a tablet after release). Again, I woke up 6 hours later and tried going back to sleep (it's been quite difficult, my body felt tired but my mind couldn't rest. I wonder if it had anything to do with the cortisol). And the rest after waking up was refreshing-ish as well (as the rest after waking up the first time wasn't of too high of a quality I guess). There was still a bit of a sore eyes and back pain but it was much better than without having taken the tablet.

After such a long story, I found that Relora was kinda useful in lessening my symptoms. But I'll keep trying and see if it continues to work. :)

Thanks so much for people in this forum for sharing your ideas and opinions, without which I wouldn't even have thought of it having anything to do with hormones :D
« Last Edit: 23/04/2009 00:29:29 by nTonic »

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4153 on: 22/04/2009 17:35:16 »
Good luck B_Jim

nTonic - I get a splitting headache if I take beyond the recommended dose of Relora.

Demo - I aspire to feel like you do :)
« Last Edit: 22/04/2009 20:37:59 by Limejuice »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4154 on: 22/04/2009 21:38:26 »

Demo - I aspire to feel like you do :)


Limejuice, let's make it happen!!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4155 on: 22/04/2009 21:43:50 »
nTonic, great work and great reporting! Like you, without this forum I wouldn't have suspected hormones as POIS culprits.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4156 on: 22/04/2009 21:59:07 »

I think it's remarkable that all of us (I think?) who have had pituitary MRIs, have found something somewhat interesting. (Pyropeach, Demografx, Me). If we were just to take 3 random people from the population, and scan the pituitary, (from what I know), there is less than a (1/10)^3 = 1 in 1000 chance this would happen.


Counterpoints, very interesting observation!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4157 on: 22/04/2009 22:06:11 »

antimorbit, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!



The consensus at this forum to heal your POIS, is to start with hormonal bloodtesting, preferably with an endocrinologist.
 
Here are some POIS forum resources which may be helpful to you:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send "Pyropeach" a Private Message with your regular email address and he'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "pyropeach".

New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse


In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community.

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for over 2 years, which has attracted over 100 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 250,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4158 on: 22/04/2009 22:52:22 »
From last year, but I thought this was interesting enough to re-post - demo

ORGASM RESEARCH

Interesting article in the news yesterday [Feb 2008]

http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/scimedemail/la-he-orgasm11feb11,0,7196643.story

about nervous system/brain research on orgasm. They said it's just now starting to be understood. Some names in the article: Barry Komisaruk, Prof/author, Rutgers; Dr. Gert Holstege, Univ. of Groningen, Netherlands; Beverly Whipple, retired Rutgers, author of "Science of Orgasm".
« Last Edit: 22/04/2009 22:56:30 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4159 on: 23/04/2009 01:11:44 »
Good luck B_Jim.

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Offline Nick_B_85

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4160 on: 23/04/2009 02:51:30 »
Here's a copy of the email I just sent an old friend:

Quote
Hey Josh,

I have good news!

During a med-clinic at the Four County Counciling Center I mentioned my Brain Fog symptoms to the Advanced Practice Nurse in order to clarify the circumstances of the panic attacks I had had a few times recently. She reacted with curiosity, and when I described the symptoms in detail, she said it sounded like ADD. She said that, with what I had told her, she "would be remiss" if she didn't prescribe a psychostimulant such as Adderall or Ritalin.

So, last Thursday I started Adderall and it has brought me an unbelievable relief from the Brain Fog!! Truth be told, even without being celebate I feel better on the Adderall than I did when celebate before. I have a bountiful store of energy, and my mind is much more focused. I've been able to sit down and apply my self to my studies with wonderful results. My mood is lifted and my hopes for the future have finally become the aspirations that motivate my actions in the present.

I now have the resources to work through my Depression and Social Phobia, and get back to where I belong... in school! Four County is helping me to find work that suits my inclinations and needs, and once I have a stable job, I will start taking classes again.

So congratulate me!

Later,

Nick

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Offline POIS-SUFFERER

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4161 on: 23/04/2009 05:08:53 »
Nick_B_85 well... this is interesting.... not sure what to think of that!

PS.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4162 on: 23/04/2009 05:55:04 »
I'm late but thank you Rock for your information, this was helpful, specially your day 3 testosterone test and the post about chinese medicine.
I'm wondering if the high testosterone right after orgasm could be caused by sexual arousal rather than orgasm..

Counterpoints, your statistic about pituitary is disconcerting. Unfortunately it's not easy to have a MRI done.
Interesting about antidepressants and prolactin. If prolactin is linked with sexual satisfaction it can eventually be good when sexually abstinent.
Also found that Deprenyl (was mentioned here recently) is helpful to treat cushing (veterinary usage !)

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Offline POIS-SUFFERER

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4163 on: 23/04/2009 05:58:28 »
I'm wondering if the high testosterone right after orgasm could be caused by sexual arousal rather than orgasm..

I can get maybe 70% POIS :-) just from over stimulation and NO O! hmmm....

PS.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4164 on: 23/04/2009 06:17:43 »
B_JIM,

Do you really need sugar to do that, 2 O's would do it for me! Seems overkill.....

Hi PS, I think B_Jim really wants to find something after a life of frustrating normal tests results when in fact nothing is perfect. But same for me about 2 orgasms.
 

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4165 on: 23/04/2009 06:36:25 »
I really think this whole thing is caused by soaring prolactin which in turn lowers testosterone production.  So celibacy could probably lower prolactin levels so your testosterone could get back up to par.  I also wouldn't be surprised if i had a prolactinoma... and dopamine levels rise after remaining celibate so maybe if there is one it could shrink.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4166 on: 23/04/2009 06:49:05 »
I'm wondering if the high testosterone right after orgasm could be caused by sexual arousal rather than orgasm..

I can get maybe 70% POIS :-) just from over stimulation and NO O! hmmm....

PS.
Since you are supposed to feel good during sex I think something happens somewhere to make you feel good even if it's temporary.
I just wanted to bring up the possibility that if a test value is changed after orgasm it can be from something else. For example noradrenaline is increased just before orgasm. As usual I'm swimming in the unknown !
In fact I don't even know if testosterone is really higher after orgasm but there was several reports about this.

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Offline POIS-SUFFERER

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4167 on: 23/04/2009 06:49:45 »
martin88,

Yes I was not being sarcastic, rather, I was thinking that "overdosing" on both at the same time would lead to not knowing what really cased the potentially high/low results of the test.... I would think you need to do one or the other and test twice :-( not an easy task for many reasons!

I too am getting very tired of this whole thing as it is really ruining my life! If I could just put SEX and O's behind me I think I would be OK.... until I got stuffed on too many carbs....

PS.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4168 on: 23/04/2009 08:57:33 »
I really think this whole thing is caused by soaring prolactin which in turn lowers testosterone production.  So celibacy could probably lower prolactin levels so your testosterone could get back up to par.  I also wouldn't be surprised if i had a prolactinoma... and dopamine levels rise after remaining celibate so maybe if there is one it could shrink.

I have "soaring prolactin" which seems to be hyperprolactinemia. According to wikipedia, it is often caused by Rx drugs such as Reglan. With my endo's concurrence, I quit Reglan and combined with my daily testosterone patches, I hope to see my June bloodtest show a decreased prolactin count (my last tests show prolactin to be 4X average!)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4169 on: 23/04/2009 09:03:30 »
Nick, Adderall has helped me enormously, similar to the way you describe.
« Last Edit: 23/04/2009 20:19:57 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4170 on: 23/04/2009 09:23:02 »
B_Jim, I am like POIS-SUFFERER, 2X for me is "le petit mort"  - overkill. I had 3X a few days ago and it reduced my cure dramatically this time.

So that + carbs/sugar...I hope you're OK!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4171 on: 23/04/2009 09:31:08 »

I too am getting very tired of this whole thing as it is really ruining my life! If I could just put SEX and O's behind me I think I would be OK.... until I got stuffed on too many carbs....

PS.


P-S, I totally understand! It ruined much of my life for over 30 years. But I decided to keep fighting and keep searching! DON'T GIVE UP!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4172 on: 23/04/2009 09:33:41 »
Martin, good to see you back posting!

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4173 on: 23/04/2009 15:28:53 »

I really think this whole thing is caused by soaring prolactin which in turn lowers testosterone production.  So celibacy could probably lower prolactin levels so your testosterone could get back up to par.  I also wouldn't be surprised if i had a prolactinoma... and dopamine levels rise after remaining celibate so maybe if there is one it could shrink.
Hi GC,
I agree with you. There are also other methods of treatment (Dr Waldinger was treating pois sufferers with antiandrogens...)

Did someone try vitamin A to help pois ? It's involved in skin problems, testosterone production, inflammation, allergies,...
It seems to help for me (halibut liver oil).
-Proteins and vitamin A are working together.
-Low fat diet (saturated fat) causes vitamin A deficiency.
-Zinc is necessary for vitamin A metabolism.
-And thyroxine or iodine I don't remember, are necessary for vitamin A absorption in tissues.
In chinese medicine vitamin A is classified yang, like vitamins D,E,K,B6,biotin,sodium.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4174 on: 23/04/2009 15:35:43 »
Martin, good to see you back posting!
Thanks.

B_Jim, I am like POIS-SUFFERER, 2X for me is "le petit mort"  - overkill. I had 3X a few days ago and it reduced my cure dramatically this time.

So that + carbs/sugar...I hope you're OK!
if testosterone is not the solution for pois, mean if there are other deficiencies in pois you're probably aggravating the whole thing, really hope I'm wrong .

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Offline Ambient123

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4175 on: 23/04/2009 18:49:21 »
Hey Demografx,

I was reading about your cure, and you say that more than one orgasm per day diminishes the effectiveness of your cure?

May i ask, do you administer your cure after every orgasm, or just once a day?

P.S (To whom it may concern), an interesting article/piece of information was brought to my attention for those who feel pain during and after orgasm. It would seem that this pain you feel (for those applicable) after orgasm is due to certain Neurotransmitters being "burned" as they say. Interesting reading.

There are other topics on the page, so look for the one called "ORGASM BRINGS PAIN"

Hope this is helpful:

http://uk.askmen.com/dating/dzimmer/36_love_answers.html





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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4176 on: 23/04/2009 19:30:50 »

if testosterone is not the solution for pois, mean if there are other deficiencies in pois you're probably aggravating the whole thing, really hope I'm wrong .



I was reading about your cure, and you say that more than one orgasm per day diminishes the effectiveness of your cure?

May i ask, do you administer your cure after every orgasm, or just once a day?


I think Martin and Ambient are asking similar things.

Martin, testosterone is the solution for my POIS.

I take testosterone every morning, "365 days/year," applying 2 new testosterone patches, total 10mg. This ensures a steady flow of testosterone to my system, mimicking the way it works naturally in the body.

I am 90%+ POIS-free if I do not exceed 1X every 2-3 days. This is miraculous, I haven't been able to do that for decades! But if I exceed this limit, my % POIS-free is reduced from 90%, in direct proportion to frequency: 2X is better than 3X, 1X is better than 2X, etc. Ideally I need to limit it to 1X. Even with multiplying, the way I feel with reduced POIS is amazingly good!

To me, that is my body describing it's limits (refractory period, etc.). Keep in mind, for comparison , that my limit before treatment - what my body could tolerate - was 1X every 2 months! And even then POIS was absolutely horrendous, 4 days of wracking body/mind/emotional agony plus painfully gradual re-adjustment to "normality" taking up to 2 weeks.

We all have limits, I believe. For some of us, it has been theorized that exceeding those limits contributed to our creating POIS in the first place.

Also keep in mind that limits are age-related. I've been dealing with POIS now for over 30 years, which has also I think created less "elasticity", due to so many repeated bouts of POIS hammering away mercilessly at my system for so many years.

Also, as Underwater points out, it can take the body up to 2 years to adjust to this new, POIS-free life.

An extra benefit is that I feel better all the time: increased vitality, much less depression, generally a much better "zest for life".

I'm very happy with this POIS solution. I didn't ask for The Fountain Of Youth [;D]


This painting by Austrian artist Eduard Veith shows a scene at
the mythical Fountain of Youth. Throughout history, people have
sought magical ways to restore their youth.
« Last Edit: 24/04/2009 00:49:22 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4177 on: 24/04/2009 00:39:00 »

ORGASM RESEARCH


http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/scimedemail/la-he-orgasm11feb11,0,7196643.story

about nervous system/brain research on orgasm. They said it's just now starting to be understood. Some names in the article: Barry Komisaruk, Prof/author, Rutgers; Dr. Gert Holstege, Univ. of Groningen, Netherlands; Beverly Whipple, retired Rutgers, author of "Science of Orgasm".


Counterpoints, maybe this article would be good for wikipedia reference? And "Science of Orgasm" book?

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4178 on: 24/04/2009 00:44:06 »

ORGASM RESEARCH


http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/scimedemail/la-he-orgasm11feb11,0,7196643.story

about nervous system/brain research on orgasm. They said it's just now starting to be understood. Some names in the article: Barry Komisaruk, Prof/author, Rutgers; Dr. Gert Holstege, Univ. of Groningen, Netherlands; Beverly Whipple, retired Rutgers, author of "Science of Orgasm".


Counterpoints, maybe this article would be good for wikipedia reference? And "Science of Orgasm" book?

Certainly.

Also: http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/reprint/23/27/9185

And:
1) Interview with Dr. Gert Holstege: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/mind/stories/s1407052.htm

2) Central nervous system control of ejaculation.
Author: Holstege G.
Publisher: World Journal of Urolology. 2005 May 4;
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15875196&query_hl=1

3) The Emotional Brain: Neural Correlates Of Cat Sexual Behavior And Human Male Ejaculation
Author: Holstege, G., Georgiadis, J.R.
Publisher: Progress In Brain Research, vol. 143, 39-45, 2004.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14653149&query_hl=3

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4179 on: 24/04/2009 00:53:36 »
CP, if someone asks, "isn't POIS just psychosomatic?", what would you tell them?

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4180 on: 24/04/2009 01:07:20 »
CP, if someone asks, "isn't POIS just psychosomatic?", what would you tell them?

Imagine we just discovered alcohol, and noticed that after people drink a certain amount, they are intoxicated -- their speech is slurred, they feel different, they lose awareness, etc.  We could say, "isn't this alcohol effect just psychosomatic?" -- after all, they are just drinking a liquid, and getting all these weird symptoms. Or if you want to extend the analogy, we could consider the effects native Indians get when they drink alcohol; "it doesn't affect other people this way, surely it's psychological".  Of course it's possible.  Anything could be psychological.  In this alcohol example, however, it is unlikely, and unwise to act on that assumption.

Unlike with the alcohol analogy, there does seem to be hope for a mostly effective cure, which is good news. However, like with the analogy, treating the problem as solely psychosomatic does not seem like the most rational approach, given the data.  This problem is debilitating, long-lasting, and it happens under very specific conditions.  Further, in an attempt to get an opinion on the "psychosomatic" possibility, I have seen psychiatrists and psychologists -- all who are quite insistent that it is NOT a psychological disorder, (at least by generally accepted definitions), and that I should seek non-psychiatric medical treatment.  In fact, one psychologist insisted that my next plan would be to see a physician immediately. Further, anti-depressant drugs have not had an obvious impact on this problem, for me.

In short, I have a debilitating problem, so I need to do something about it.  And the evidence suggests that treating it as psychosomatic is not a productive approach to recovery.

It's very easy for other people who don't have this problem to wave their hands and say "psychosomatic": they really don't know, and putting it in the "psychological box" makes it easier to think about. I wish more people had the humility and trust to give these issues the serious attention they deserve.

That being said, I think it is important not to obsess about any medical condition (whether it be POIS or diabetes, Parkinson's or MS).  You don't want it to hijack your life more than it already has.  And a positive outlook usually has a good effect on our bodies -- lessening the symptoms of most conditions.
« Last Edit: 24/04/2009 01:18:24 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4181 on: 24/04/2009 01:53:07 »
Thanks, CP, that was very helpful!

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4182 on: 24/04/2009 03:03:40 »
I was thinking about this some more, and diabetes is a better example. First of all, there are medications which can help.  Also, it would easily be dismissible as psychological.  "Other people eat sugar and feel fine.  How could something so innocuous cause such symptoms?".  etc.  Would treating diabetics as though they have a psychological disorder be an optimal approach? Not likely.

You can imagine if diabetes were more rare, it would probably be dismissed by many as psychological.  In the past, it probably was, somewhat.
« Last Edit: 24/04/2009 03:07:00 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4183 on: 24/04/2009 04:15:51 »
It's sad, the level of ignorance out there, even today. But at least we're beyond medieval medicine of Humors, Leeches, Charms, and Prayers!

POIS, being sexual, might have been "cured" by burning at the stake.

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4184 on: 24/04/2009 08:40:58 »
I would have to say my other posts of relora being the "cure", i noticed what it was doing to me as soon as i took it, i seemed alot calmer.  I O'd 3 times the other day and I have to say the first 2 were fine and the 3rd O was the one that started the whole POIS cycle again.  It seemed like the relora was working, maybe if I give it a few months without orgasm-ing and just take relora I would see better results.

And something weird happened the other night while I was dreaming, this was a little less than a week since I "O'd".  I was in the middle of a dream and even in the dream I noticed some sort of rush go into my head and I got a lot cockier, but it was a really "feel-good" sensation, and when I woke up my testicles were aking? haha, I believed maybe they're starting to make a testosterone comeback!?
« Last Edit: 24/04/2009 08:44:33 by goingcrazy »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4185 on: 24/04/2009 15:28:42 »
if testosterone is not the solution for pois, mean if there are other deficiencies in pois you're probably aggravating the whole thing, really hope I'm wrong .
Martin, testosterone is the solution for my POIS.
Definitely I can't talk for you. It's very nice that you feel so confident about your treatment and I'm glad you found a solution after so many years of agony. And I really think testosterone plays an important role in pois.
My thoughts were more based on my own experience with pois. As I already said, sometimes I feel out of pois when in fact a long physical work or stress is enough to bring me back in the real world. If we leave the Occam's razor aside for one minute :) we realize that nobody really knows why your testosterone is low and how to restore your own production naturally. To me this sounds very medieval..

I think it's important to add that in my case, as a rule, every time I found something which is improving libido, my pois was a lot stronger after, that's why I'm a bit reticent. I've been well educated by this disease, so maybe I have to modify my way of thinking.
« Last Edit: 24/04/2009 16:26:10 by martin88 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4186 on: 24/04/2009 18:42:39 »

sometimes I feel out of pois when in fact a long physical work or stress is enough to bring me back in the real world.


I understand this to mean that we can think that we are feeling good, but that when we are "tested" by more difficult life circumstances we then realize that we are still "in-POIS".


we realize that nobody really knows why your testosterone is low and how to restore your own production naturally. To me this sounds very medieval..


I agree that it's low, without knowing why, and without certain restoration knowledge, but I don't understand your "medieval" descriptor. Is that because I'm treating symptoms only? Because it's risky? If that's what you mean, then perhaps, at this stage of my life, waiting 30+ years for an answer, I wanted to stop the POIS circus. Finally.

ANY approach has associated risks.


every time I found something which is improving libido, my pois was a lot stronger after, that's why I'm a bit reticent.


Me too, if I'm not careful with excess.
« Last Edit: 24/04/2009 19:11:18 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4187 on: 24/04/2009 21:34:00 »
I would have to say my other posts of relora being the "cure", i noticed what it was doing to me as soon as i took it, i seemed alot calmer.  I O'd 3 times the other day and I have to say the first 2 were fine and the 3rd O was the one that started the whole POIS cycle again.  It seemed like the relora was working, maybe if I give it a few months without orgasm-ing and just take relora I would see better results.

I find that sometimes one orgasm can cause symptoms, and another subsequent orgasm can alleviate them.  For me, orgasm seems capable of both activating and de-activating symptoms.  Perhaps there is something similar happening with you.

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Offline Porke

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4188 on: 24/04/2009 22:04:39 »
Just reading the comments regarding sugar / carbs in excess. I fully agree with this. I notice that when POIS is bad (1 - 2 days after) i REALLY crave sugar and carbs and coffee. Its almost like I cant stop myself. Any other time, I dont eat sweet things. I have noticed however, the more sugar i eat, the worse POIS symptoms get. I feel very hypoglycemic, tired, nervous, anxious, i dont sleep as deeply, i have unrestful sleep.


When i FORCE myself to just eat very very clean for a day or two after, it usually only lasts a day or two, but instead its very mild.

This just reinforces the idea to me, that this whole thing has to do with adrenals and hormones. Cortisol controls blood sugar, adrenal controls cortisol. Sex is linked to dopamine, high sugar boosts your dopamine. If you have low dopamine levels, you crave things that will boost dopamine levels. Its all interrelated.


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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4189 on: 25/04/2009 02:44:33 »
Just reading the comments regarding sugar / carbs in excess. I fully agree with this. I notice that when POIS is bad (1 - 2 days after) i REALLY crave sugar and carbs and coffee. Its almost like I cant stop myself. Any other time, I dont eat sweet things. I have noticed however, the more sugar i eat, the worse POIS symptoms get. I feel very hypoglycemic, tired, nervous, anxious, i dont sleep as deeply, i have unrestful sleep.


When i FORCE myself to just eat very very clean for a day or two after, it usually only lasts a day or two, but instead its very mild.

This just reinforces the idea to me, that this whole thing has to do with adrenals and hormones. Cortisol controls blood sugar, adrenal controls cortisol. Sex is linked to dopamine, high sugar boosts your dopamine. If you have low dopamine levels, you crave things that will boost dopamine levels. Its all interrelated.



thats exactly how i get.  When I crave sugar and eat it I get in the worst mood in POIS,  I have to say I have generally improved over the last year since knowing that orgasm has caused this "disease".  I know longer get in a bad mood when I eat sugar, its very very weird.  I believe we all just need to lower our cortisol so testosterone can be produced and stay celibate for at least a few months so our hormones could be regulated... anybody experience POIS caused by sex without orgasm?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4190 on: 25/04/2009 02:57:20 »
goingcrazy, perhaps you might consider cutting back on the frequency rather than total abstinence for a few months. This way it might prevent building of pent-up frustration, then possibly "exploding" into excess which relora might not help you overcome much. Just a suggestion from past experience.
« Last Edit: 25/04/2009 02:59:24 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4191 on: 25/04/2009 03:39:09 »

sometimes I feel out of pois when in fact a long physical work or stress is enough to bring me back in the real world.


I understand this to mean that we can think that we are feeling good, but that when we are "tested" by more difficult life circumstances we then realize that we are still "in-POIS".


we realize that nobody really knows why your testosterone is low and how to restore your own production naturally. To me this sounds very medieval..


I agree that it's low, without knowing why, and without certain restoration knowledge, but I don't understand your "medieval" descriptor. Is that because I'm treating symptoms only? Because it's risky? If that's what you mean, then perhaps, at this stage of my life, waiting 30+ years for an answer, I wanted to stop the POIS circus. Finally.

ANY approach has associated risks.


every time I found something which is improving libido, my pois was a lot stronger after, that's why I'm a bit reticent.


Me too, if I'm not careful with excess.
1) yes it's what I was saying.
2) I understand your approach very well.
I was not referring to risks inherent to testosterone therapy which can certainly be controlled if you donít ignore them. I was more thinking about a possibility to aggravate pois in the long run, just an old feeling maybe false if you have found THE cure. About the word "medieval" it was about medicine which is treating the symptom and not the cause, I think they are not always very advanced.  But I know we sometimes have to do with what we have, and you seem to have a MD better than usual since he found problems undiagnosed by others.
3)For me who has not been treated, only one time is already an excess!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4192 on: 25/04/2009 05:52:12 »
POIS DIARY

It's nice to be sitting here, on the night of Day Zero, reading a newspaper, making my wife dinner, and reading/writing some posts. Prior to treatment, I would now just mostly be "zoning out". And not pleasurably!
« Last Edit: 25/04/2009 05:57:50 by demografx »

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4193 on: 25/04/2009 06:09:15 »
goingcrazy, perhaps you might consider cutting back on the frequency rather than total abstinence for a few months. This way it might prevent building of pent-up frustration, then possibly "exploding" into excess which relora might not help you overcome much. Just a suggestion from past experience.

I can see how an "exploding" occurence of pois can occur, but I believe after experiencing non-pois symptoms and than coming back to it we tend to think that the affects of pois are a lot greater than they once were, perhaps because we haven't experienced them in a while

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4194 on: 25/04/2009 06:46:25 »
Above, I meant that abstinence could cause a backfiring effect of excess [sex], more  difficult for relora than lower sex activity and less POIS.   
« Last Edit: 25/04/2009 06:52:37 by demografx »

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Offline POIS-SUFFERER

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4195 on: 25/04/2009 16:13:15 »
Like I had said in the past, if I abstain, I get horrible urgrs, if these urges are large enough and long enough I start getting POIS symptoms and have not had a release.... so then I figure I might as well have a release and then I feel even worse..... bad cycle.

PS.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4196 on: 25/04/2009 19:05:02 »
Like I had said in the past, if I abstain, I get horrible urgrs, if these urges are large enough and long enough I start getting POIS symptoms and have not had a release.... so then I figure I might as well have a release and then I feel even worse..... bad cycle.

PS.

How long do you have to abstain before the symptoms become like POIS symptoms?

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Offline Dean93

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4197 on: 25/04/2009 23:18:44 »
Hello,

My name is Dean and I believe that I may suffer from POIS. My problems started in my freshman year of highschool in which I would come home everyday and use the hour that I had to myself to masturbate to pornography. I don't ever remember particularly enjoying it, after a while it just felt as if I was doing something to my penis, rather than to myself, like a was watching myself orgasm, rather than experiencing it. This is when I began to feel what I now know to be feelings of de-realization and de-personalization, unable to really exist as a social being at all or feel anything or feel connected to anyone. I also experienced the "brain fog" and mental incapacitation and i was unmotivated to do anything, including music, which I love, and school work, and my grades suffered. I didnt care about anything, i didnt know why i was alive, or why i should do anything. I was without true emotion besides perhaps frustration and depression. I knew that this new condition was due to masturbation, so after a while, I tried to avoid it, but usually due to boredom, getting caught up in porn, or being "unable" to withstand it anymore, I would masturbate again. I would then have to wait about 10 days to recover and feel like myself again. That time would be great but I would then fall again and have to go through a period where i was basically dead, walking around trying to preserve relationships with friends and family until I could, i suppose, regenerate enough energy to really live as a person again. That hell continued until i decided to stop masturbating altogether. My first attempt only caused my head to "fog up" until i was completely non functional and had to masturbate to continue the cycle.

Recently, I was able to not ejaculate for 24 days until I had a wet dream. Sadly,although it took a little longer to set in, the effects were about the same as me having masturbated.

I have been fighting this for only two years, wondering, "Why me?". When I feel alive, powerful and like my true self, i know that life is beautiful and want to live it. But this condition seems near impossible to overcome for me. Although i haven't asked anyone, no one around me seems to experience the same thing. I dont want to live only half of my life, and i dont want to miss oppurtunities in my life because i am disabled. Thinking about living with this for the rest of my life makes me want to cry, and if it wasnt for the better part of my life, i would probably kill myself. When i am like this i am miserable

I have two questions:

Does anyone here who suffers from POIS have a history of excessive masturbation?

And does anybody have any solution or even ways to make this condition the least bit better?

Please I ask of you to share

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4198 on: 26/04/2009 00:49:04 »
Dean93, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!



Dean93, We are making phenomenal progress! See B_Jim's summary below, and look for a successful case similar to yours and work with your doctor. I lived with it (barely) for over 30 years and kept fighting and now we are on the verge of success for many people. Hang in there!

The consensus at this forum to heal your POIS, is to start with hormonal bloodtesting, preferably with an endocrinologist.
 
Here are some POIS forum resources which may be helpful to you:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send "Pyropeach" a Private Message with your regular email address and he'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "pyropeach".

New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse


In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community.

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for over 2 years, which has attracted over 100 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 250,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!
« Last Edit: 26/04/2009 00:55:01 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4199 on: 26/04/2009 01:02:36 »
Martin88,

Thank you very much for your earlier thoughts on testosterone. I appreciate your cautionary wisdom!

Have you thought more about testing your polling ideas here at the Forum?