Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4650 on: 18/06/2009 19:40:03 »

OK, Martin, we'll wait, please remind me if you can remember!

I just communicated with my pharmacology-attorney friend who has been very helpful to us. I told him about our research dilemma and asked him if he can help. His reply:

"[demo], I'll ask around, but you're right, 1/10,000 ain't gonna shake anyone up."

My Harvard biophysicist friend suggested that we contact the NIH Office of Rare Disorders Research.
http://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/

Should I send them (ORDR) the same letter as we sent to WHO? (CP? Martin? B_Jim? anyone else?)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4651 on: 18/06/2009 20:06:28 »
1. American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (AACE)
http://www.aace.com/

While I was looking into mailing to AACE membership (they want $750), I had a thought: maybe we could simply write to AACE President, with a WHO-type letter, but emphasizing our "endocrine-related" malady, the fact that Dr Waldinger's co-author is an endocrinologist, etc.

Maybe they can give us suggestions/referrals for potential POIS Research group that would study us?

2. The Endocrine Project
http://www.query.com/terp/

They have an email listed. Note their focus on thyroid and cortisol!

Your feedback, please.
« Last Edit: 18/06/2009 20:31:03 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4652 on: 18/06/2009 20:41:07 »
Great work Demografx!

I think we should send to
1) http://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/
2) e-mail/post a letter to AACE President
3) e-mail the endocrine project.

It could be the same letter for each (with small modifications: e.g. a sentence at the beginning of each letter explaining why we decided to write to that particular organization). At a glance, http://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/ 
shows the most promise. 

The WHO letter would serve as a good template.  How about we aim to have these letters sent out by this time next week?  I can offer some editorial/writing assistance on Mon,Tues.
« Last Edit: 18/06/2009 20:44:17 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4653 on: 18/06/2009 20:53:55 »
Some follow-up:


Dr Beyer-Flores, endocrinologist, author, "The Science of Orgasm"

Dear Dr Beyer-Flores,

Since this was my first correspondence with you, I was just wondering if my email reached you. I'm sorry if this email is premature, I'm sure you're very busy.

I just wanted to make sure I had your correct address.

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Best regards,

[first name, last initial]
« Last Edit: 19/06/2009 01:37:22 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4654 on: 18/06/2009 20:56:19 »
Great work Demografx!

I think we should send to
1) http://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/
2) e-mail/post a letter to AACE President
3) e-mail the endocrine project.

It could be the same letter for each (with small modifications: e.g. a sentence at the beginning of each letter explaining why we decided to write to that particular organization). At a glance, http://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/ 
shows the most promise. 

The WHO letter would serve as a good template.  How about we aim to have these letters sent out by this time next week?  I can offer some editorial/writing assistance on Mon,Tues.
emphasis mine for draft deadline to CP

Thanks, CP!!

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Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4655 on: 19/06/2009 00:02:18 »
Just found this and had never read this before..... anyone else miss this....

I found it at http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/post-orgasmic-illness-syndrome-134261293.html

They did not say this is the answer.... they just found it interesting....

QUOTE:

This is called orgasmic stress (OS) induced by excessive conversion of dopamine-norepinephrine-epinephrine in the brain and adrenal glands under the sympathetic nervous function for you to achieve orgasm.
Action of Norepinephrine and Epinephrine on the sympathetic alpha receptor causes constriction of blood vessels upon orgasm. Excessive norepinephrine and epinephrine (excessive stress and anxiety) will eliminate the relaxation hormone prostaglandin E-1, resulting in tension in the rear brain, neck and shoulders where the norepinephrine and epinephrine neurons are very dense. Neck and shoulders have the densest neuro-hormone epinephrine and norepinephrine receptors in the body, followed by the urogenital areas (uterus, ovaries, vagina, clitoris, penis, testicles, and prostate), digestive tract and head skin. That is why stress, anxiety and panic can cause neck and shoulder pains and face cramp, urinary incontinence, infertility, prostate/uterine/ovarian tumors/cancers, prostate enlargement, erectile dysfunction (impotence and frigidity), digestive dysfunction, stomach cramps, and even hair loss(yes! Stress causes hair loss!). Excessive orgasm can produce Orgasmic Stress, resulting in these problems too. If you have a good blood circulation, excessive neurohormones Norepinephrine and Epinephrine can be dispersed out of the local tissues, then metabolized by the liver and expelled by the kidneys to the bladder. The un-metabolized neurohormones can also stimulate the bladder and urethral sympathetic nerves.
A low level of DHEA and androstenedione / estrogen will also cause excessive sympathetic nervous functions. Nausea is due to excessive epinephrine (sympathetic nervous functions) in the digestive systems - digestive stress.
Your body's responses to orgasmic stress out are the same as your work stress out. The difference is that the orgasmic stress occurs instantaneously upon orgasm and during sexual tension (extreme arousal), but both orgasmic and work stresses can last very long. To solve the orgasmic headache and nausea Orgasmic Stress), you have to
1. reduce the dopamine-norepinephrine-epinephrine conversion in the brain and adrenal medulla, and the epinephrine level in the bloodstream (who can do those? 5-HTP and Kava Kava!);
2. partially block the sympathetic alpha receptors;
3. increase the DHEA/androstenedione (for balancing testosterone and estrogen!) levels;
4. increase the acetylcholine and serotonin levels to modulate the sympathetic function for orgasm - de-stress the body for orgasm;
5. partially inhibit the acetylcholine re-uptaking in the synapses and power the parasympathetic nervous functions to balance the sympathetic functions that induce stress against the cardiovascular, digestive, liver, kidney and adrenal functions;
6. increase the prostaglandin E-1 (PGE-1) production in the local tissues by increasing the DHEA, acetylcholine (and its neurochemicals), and androstenedione levels;
7. Improve the local blood circulation by massage to quickly remove epinephrine and norepinephrine from the local tissues and to quickly replenish the local tissues with the nutrients, oxygen, DHEA/androstenedione and neurochemicals for the synthesis of PGE-1. Heating the local tissues can also promote the PGE-1 production to release the pulling or constriction pain. Massaging and heating on the neck and shoulders can extensively affect the PGE-1 concentration in the brain stem.
Note that Massaging and Heating the low abdomen, low back and tail bone can do the same effects on the PGE-1 production for release of the PMS or orgasmic/post-orgasmic pains or cramps in the low abdomen, low back/tailbone, and pelvic floor

PS

I just wanted to respond to this because it was something that looked like it could go into the compendium...but excessive conversion to dopamine to norepinephrine to epinephrine, based on my biochemistry classes, doesn't make too much scientific sense.  Although I suppose it is possible (by a super long shot) that we overexpress the enzyme between dopamine and norepineprine and underexpress the enzyme between norepinephrine and epinephrine, which might cause a buildup of norepinephrine to abnormal levels and cause POIS. 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4656 on: 19/06/2009 00:18:34 »
in reverse chrono order, starting with my reply this afternoon to Mary Roach, NY Times Top Ten Best Selling author

Thanks again, Mary! Not heard from SFC, would it be ok if I call Violet-Blue? (Great name!)

Many thanks,
demo

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 18, 2009, at 12:54 PM, mary roach  wrote:

Hi demo!  I got no reply from Tara Parker-Pope [NY Times Science writer], so not sure what she thought. I also forwarded the info to SF Chronicle sex columnist Violet-Blue, as she had expressed interest in the subject.  Have you heard anything from her? 

Cheers,
m
« Last Edit: 19/06/2009 01:31:16 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4657 on: 19/06/2009 00:38:46 »
Thanks Demo for your work. Here is an additional way you can go :
In this study (which is very interesting) there are some names and email of people to contact :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11760788
If they want, I think these doctors can really know how to help us because they already have done similar studies.
A problem we'll face, even if we have a researcher, is to be able to regroup a good number of pois sufferers to participate.
Do you think it could be possible to organize research on pois in several labs? Ex: One researcher gives some directives to our own endo to organize the research.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4658 on: 19/06/2009 01:16:51 »
Mary Roach just gave us the green light to contact the SF Chronicle directly

Email from Mary:
"That's totally fine -- I just didn't want to give out her email.  But if it's on-line, go for it. And fine to say we've been in touch....     Thanks, demo!"
m
« Last Edit: 19/06/2009 02:14:26 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4659 on: 19/06/2009 01:28:33 »
Thanks Demo for your work. Here is an additional way you can go :
In this study (which is very interesting) there are some names and email of people to contact :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11760788
If they want, I think these doctors can really know how to help us because they already have done similar studies.
A problem we'll face, even if we have a researcher, is to be able to regroup a good number of pois sufferers to participate.
Do you think it could be possible to organize research on pois in several labs? Ex: One researcher gives some directives to our own endo to organize the research.

Fascinating study, Martin. But I don't see where the emails are.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4660 on: 19/06/2009 01:43:36 »
Great work again!

I think before we send out 3 or so letters, it would be good to make as big as list as possible of potential places to send things to.  If anyone has any ideas about who would be good to contact, please share.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4661 on: 19/06/2009 02:48:40 »

Fascinating study, Martin. But I don't see where the emails are.


Martin, I found it! You didn't tell me I had to open my eyes and look!!  [;D]

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4662 on: 19/06/2009 03:35:36 »
You didn't tell me I had to open my eyes and look!!  [;D]
[;D]

There is an other nice study from the same person :
If a letter will be sent there I think we'd like to ask for the details of these studies (lab values)

Department of Medical Psychology, University of Essen, 45122 Essen, Germany
Recent studies from our laboratory have investigated the hormonal response to various forms of sexual stimulation, including film, masturbation, and coitus in both men and women. This series of studies clearly demonstrated that plasma prolactin (PRL) concentrations are substantially increased for over 1h following orgasm (masturbation and coitus conditions) in both men and women, but unchanged following sexual arousal without orgasm. Here we discuss evidence suggesting that the PRL response to orgasm may play an important role in the control of acute sexual arousal following orgasm. Supporting this position, chronic elevations of PRL (hyperprolactinemia) produce pronounced reductions in animal sexual activity, and significant reduction of libido and gonadal function in both men and women. These data suggest that PRL may represent a peripheral regulatory factor for reproductive function, and/or a feedback mechanism that signals CNS centres controlling sexual arousal and behaviour. Thus, we propose a theoretical model of the role of PRL as a neuroendocrine reproductive reflex.


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4663 on: 19/06/2009 03:38:51 »



We just hit 200 Pages! There must be a significance to that somewhere!!! [;D]

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4664 on: 19/06/2009 03:43:12 »
I just wanted to respond to this because it was something that looked like it could go into the compendium...but excessive conversion to dopamine to norepinephrine to epinephrine, based on my biochemistry classes, doesn't make too much scientific sense.  Although I suppose it is possible (by a super long shot) that we overexpress the enzyme between dopamine and norepineprine and underexpress the enzyme between norepinephrine and epinephrine, which might cause a buildup of norepinephrine to abnormal levels and cause POIS. 
Thanks Pyropeach ,
I'm convinced norepinephrine is involved in pois. You can read Deloun's posts about this.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4665 on: 19/06/2009 04:49:19 »
This is the worst first-24 hours' early POIS period since starting treatment. If I report the excitement, I should report this. The only reason I can come up with for this is just like the last bad event: more stress/anxiety than usual. Endocrinologist believes hormones can be thrown out of whack when that happens.

 [???]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4666 on: 19/06/2009 04:55:20 »
Martin, the prolactin article is interesting. My endo says that we don't really understand the role of prolactin in men. In women, it's obvious (lactation).


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Offline NakedDynamo

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4667 on: 19/06/2009 08:40:32 »
Demografx: I'll have to take you up on that Airfare to appear on Oprah   [;D]

I agree entirely with Counterpoints. By Making this condition more known to the general public will really help this cause. (Counterpoints - Really also Love the Summary of all efforts to date as well.)
Like I said, I think that a lot more people suffer from this (Where did the 1/10,000 come from ?) Many just never think they can do anything about it and accept it as normal.

I would again like to Thank you all for your efforts so far. If it wasn't for you, I would have never realised this condition myself (I fit into the thinking it was normal category).

Here is another Suggestion more (possibly) down to earth suggestion as a starting point, which you may already have contemplated....

What about Registering a Domain Name, and setting up a website specifically dedicated to POIS and moving this Forum onto the new site?
Here could be a place to consolidate all the fantastic information over these last 200 pages.
1. The YouTube Video could be shown on the site.
2.  Links to Articles
3. Provide References provided in an organised manner.
4. Host the Survey on the server also...(perhaps with a Quick Questionnaire for newcomers to determine if persons could have POIS.)
4. Provide an Status and updates of all attempts to make POIS more known (Like the one Counterpoints has put together)
5. A FAQ page
6. Possible Treatements page
7. Most importantly....an Open Invitation for researchers....

I think this would certainly Co-ordinate the efforts a lot more, and provide . Yes, it will probably cost a little -- (Fundraiser for Website as a starting point?)  But I think the effort/cost/return ratio on something like this would be worth it, especially if someone on this forum already has the know how to do this and would be willing to assist set this up.

Counterpoints: This could be a way of Rounding up the ideas and Organising them - Setting Some specific Actions and asking for volunteers on this site to do them..Which is already happening!

Finding this site was great. But was Very tiresome to read through 200 pages of Comments just to find information. User friendliness would greatly assist in spreading this information - especially if we are asking researchers  to visit a website with 200 pages!

So in Summary ....More Ideas, Organisation, Volunteers and then Action.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4668 on: 19/06/2009 19:19:56 »
ND, a few things can help with sifting thru 200 pp. You can tailor Google searches to this forum, (several posts on that), B_Jim's p 11 summation, and Pyropeach is compiling a compendium.

Sorry for brevity, off to a meeting, but hope that helps you somewhat, as well as others reading this.

We have explored most of what you suggest, but as CP asked, what is your level of commitment to make this all happen?It's taken some of us a week or more to get a simple question answered amongst us, and the little that we have achieved has at times felt like a Herculean effort. Not being negative, but I've watched 2 years of reality here.

Many thanks for contributing all these terrific ideas!
« Last Edit: 19/06/2009 22:59:37 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4669 on: 19/06/2009 22:47:52 »
ND, I'd like to add that the web-infrastructure here as part of Naked Science Forum, with 24/7 tech assistance from the NSF staff has been excellent. I shudder to think how/who would/could implement that effort independently at our own site! But it is a great idea!

I'm all for change, and I realize that we need to move on from "survival" stage MO, but I don't want to put a whole lot of thinking into trying to makeover Switzerland into a world-class nuclear power. [:)]
« Last Edit: 23/06/2009 05:38:07 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4670 on: 20/06/2009 02:07:54 »
Martin, the prolactin article is interesting. My endo says that we don't really understand the role of prolactin in men. In women, it's obvious (lactation).
About women they also have prolactin increased after orgasm, but no pois..(97% of pois cases are men).

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4671 on: 20/06/2009 02:36:02 »
Hi Nakeddynamo, you have good ideas but like Demo said it was explored before and what you're saying is already in progress for a part. Unfortunately we don't always have the time/energy to be fully involved in this.
I think the best is simply to start working on what you're able to do, like Pyropeach is doing now with his compendium, or like other people did before. You don't seem to be bothered by the idea of giving your identity (Oprah, domain name) but I think many people here won't want to tell their family or boss etc  that they are suffering from pois. However I saw a (cured) pois case explaining his condition on tv,  so maybe you're right :)
« Last Edit: 20/06/2009 05:10:47 by martin88 »

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Offline POIS-SUFFERER

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4672 on: 21/06/2009 03:30:32 »



We just hit 200 Pages! There must be a significance to that somewhere!!! [;D]

There is... 25 posts per page 200 pages or... 5000 posts!

PS.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4673 on: 21/06/2009 22:40:37 »
[Just in case my precedent post was misinterpreted (it was edited also), I'd like to add that I'm not for any form of censure here. I think that anyone without exception is welcome here to express whatever he thinks to be  relevant :) ]

For those who had been diagnosed with hypothyroidism,there is a possibility of hyperprolactinemia:
The article include an email address for the email list (with a name of an endo from a university).
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/169/6/575

I saw the site for rare diseases. There is a nice list of email addresses there!

Pois Sufferer,
5000 posts is a lot! Maybe when we'll be to 50000 posts we'll finally find a reason and a cure for pois !
If possible I wanted to know more about your Ativan experience, does this work everytime ? And are you taking this immediately after release? Thanks

« Last Edit: 22/06/2009 00:04:20 by martin88 »

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Offline POIS-SUFFERER

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4674 on: 22/06/2009 03:14:06 »
Pois Sufferer,
5000 posts is a lot! Maybe when we'll be to 50000 posts we'll finally find a reason and a cure for pois !
If possible I wanted to know more about your Ativan experience, does this work everytime ? And are you taking this immediately after release? Thanks

I take it when I can not stand the effects of POIS, once taken 10-15 minutes and I am a new person..... when it wears off 8-16 hours later I hope the effects are less at that point. I get really bad sometimes with very scary inability to talk.... and also very odd dizzy, sort of a head ache, very hard to describe feeling in my brain! its very troubling, but once on ATIVAN I am good to go.

I orignally was introduced to ATIVAN though my first depression and later anxiety issues.... and its good to note, I think, that a lot of POIS suffers are also anxiety suffers.... and stress disorders. I think my POIS is stress and anxiety related and somehow some system in my body is not working well due to that.

PS
« Last Edit: 22/06/2009 03:22:08 by POIS-SUFFERER »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4675 on: 22/06/2009 16:21:50 »
I get really bad sometimes with very scary inability to talk.... and also very odd dizzy, sort of a head ache, very hard to describe feeling in my brain!
PS,
I can certainly identify myself to all the awful smptoms you mention, except that I don't have any positive effect with Ativan... Maybe I should try again.
When I know I'm in this state I have to do things where people are not involved which is not always easy. Anyway I'm not very productive at this moment.
For sure this inability to talk is also causing a part of the anxiety.
Hope you'll be better soon!

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Offline POIS-SUFFERER

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4676 on: 22/06/2009 16:30:53 »
martin88,

What dosage of ATIVAN? Is it the type you swallow or the one you put under your tongue? I use the under the tongue type it only takes 10-20 minutes to kick in, and 1mg, I jave tried the swallowing type at at 1mg for that type I do not get the same results, not as good. (I weigh 200lbs if that makes a difference to dosage)

If I take 2mg all at once I can start to not remember things that happened for the next 8-10 hours! So its rare for me to go above 1mg.

PS

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4677 on: 22/06/2009 22:21:31 »
martin88,

What dosage of ATIVAN? Is it the type you swallow or the one you put under your tongue? I use the under the tongue type it only takes 10-20 minutes to kick in, and 1mg, I jave tried the swallowing type at at 1mg for that type I do not get the same results, not as good. (I weigh 200lbs if that makes a difference to dosage)

If I take 2mg all at once I can start to not remember things that happened for the next 8-10 hours! So its rare for me to go above 1mg.

PS

I've used 0.5 mg sub-lingual Ativan pills... I think I've at least tested 1.5-2 mg at once.  It doesn't help me with POIS. 
« Last Edit: 22/06/2009 22:23:39 by Counterpoints »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4678 on: 22/06/2009 22:50:31 »
martin88,

What dosage of ATIVAN? Is it the type you swallow or the one you put under your tongue? I use the under the tongue type it only takes 10-20 minutes to kick in, and 1mg, I jave tried the swallowing type at at 1mg for that type I do not get the same results, not as good. (I weigh 200lbs if that makes a difference to dosage)

If I take 2mg all at once I can start to not remember things that happened for the next 8-10 hours! So its rare for me to go above 1mg.

PS
PS,
I'll know this for next time.
Unfortunately I can't remember this information (maybe I took too much of it!) and I couldn't find the prescription in my files. It was more than 15 years ago ... (It was some very small round and white pills..). Since I was feeling an effect I suppose it was enough.
Usually in pois I feel a lack of tension in the nerves for action (like if I need a stimulant to move) and I remember this was aggravated by Ativan.
It seems there are differents type of pois if we compare our 3 experiences.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4679 on: 23/06/2009 01:48:03 »



We just hit 200 Pages! There must be a significance to that somewhere!!! [;D]

There is... 25 posts per page 200 pages or... 5000 posts!

PS.

Thanks, PS!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4680 on: 23/06/2009 01:54:18 »
[Just in case my precedent post was misinterpreted (it was edited also), I'd like to add that I'm not for any form of censure here. I think that anyone without exception is welcome here to express whatever he thinks to be  relevant :) ]

Martin, generally I would agree with you. But from past experience, I feel that there are exceptions: (1) spammers, i.e., blatant advertisers (2) ad hominem attacks on other forum members (3) outright quackery (dangerous medical suggestions or totally false medical information) (4) "street language", e.g., referring to human anatomy, sex, etc. is inappropriate in a Science forum, (5) acting against the interest of the forum, e.g., misrepresentational letters to organizations purporting to be the "voice" of this forum.

I have taken appropriate action in all these cases, which has generally been supported by the members here as well as Naked Science Forum administrators.

But I think you're right that opposing points of view should generally be tolerated, which is the spirit of a forum.
« Last Edit: 23/06/2009 02:01:52 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4681 on: 23/06/2009 02:10:57 »
ANXIETY

For myself only, I dismissed anxiety as a correlate to my POIS. But the last POIS episode made me think differently: I was back to "90% cured" and.....the anxiety state was 'normal'. In retrospect, the very few bad experiences I had since starting testosterone treatment either were related to frequency or to mood (anxiety), the latter being the worst.

Relora seems to help along those lines, but it is really hard to tell at this time. I'm just grateful that something works sometimes!

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4682 on: 23/06/2009 03:45:28 »
[Just in case my precedent post was misinterpreted (it was edited also), I'd like to add that I'm not for any form of censure here. I think that anyone without exception is welcome here to express whatever he thinks to be  relevant :) ]

Martin, generally I would agree with you. But from past experience, I feel that there are exceptions: (1) spammers, i.e., blatant advertisers (2) ad hominem attacks on other forum members (3) outright quackery (dangerous medical suggestions or totally false medical information) (4) "street language", e.g., referring to human anatomy, sex, etc. is inappropriate in a Science forum, (5) acting against the interest of the forum, e.g., misrepresentational letters to organizations purporting to be the "voice" of this forum.

I have taken appropriate action in all these cases, which has generally been supported by the members here as well as Naked Science Forum administrators.

But I think you're right that opposing points of view should generally be tolerated, which is the spirit of a forum.

Sure you're very right.. and many thanks for your involvement as a moderator, which I know is not always an easy task! I was focused more on usual people who could eventually feel censured by my initial post.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4683 on: 23/06/2009 05:31:43 »

many thanks for your involvement as a moderator, which I know is not always an easy task!


Many thanks in return! Your contributions here have always been greatly appreciated.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4684 on: 23/06/2009 17:35:46 »
Question... I find it very difficult to "abstain" for more than 3 days.  I get very tense, I find it difficult to focus, and my thoughts become less fluent -- as does my writing.  This isn't the same as POIS, I imagine it's somewhat common for people who have gone long periods of time, but it's probably related.  It's severe enough that my productivity decreases, even when I am trying my best to focus.

I'm wondering if anyone else had trouble with this?  I hear about people going weeks, a month, or even months without release. Do you start to feel really agitated after a week? 


One other question: I've noticed when I am exposed to stimulating material, I sometimes get involuntary shivers in my spine... I don't know if this is normal or not, but it feels like a massive release of neurotransmitters (dopamine, etc?).
I wonder what this is.  I imagine it's the same as if you showed a bag of cocaine to an addict.
« Last Edit: 23/06/2009 17:42:07 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4685 on: 23/06/2009 18:23:20 »

Question... I find it very difficult to "abstain" for more than 3 days.  I get very tense, I find it difficult to focus, and my thoughts become less fluent -- as does my writing.  This isn't the same as POIS, I imagine it's somewhat common for people who have gone long periods of time, but it's probably related.  It's severe enough that my productivity decreases, even when I am trying my best to focus.

I'm wondering if anyone else had trouble with this?  I hear about people going weeks, a month, or even months without release. Do you start to feel really agitated after a week? 


With my testosterone therapy bringing me into the "normal" range, one week brings me to tension.

Prior to T-therapy, it would take 6-8 weeks to build up that same level of tension.

 I think the tension relates partly to habit and that because release is so powerful it sets a biological clock, comparable to circadian rhythm .

Some people have incredibly long abstinence periods. I think that happens because they forcefully override that time clock the first time or two, then afterwards the body simply adjusts to abstinence. The other possibility, based on my experience, is that low libido can make the adjustment much easier.

With my current libido at normal level, I would find it nearly impossible to achieve abstinence. I know because of POIS I tried and failed numerous times over many years.

But that's just me.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4686 on: 23/06/2009 18:28:02 »
Yes, I think the body definitely gets into a rhythm.... and mine seems to adapt really quickly.  If I went to once/day, even a few times, I'm sure after a day of abstinence I would be feeling pretty agitated.

My goal is to change this rhythm to something weekly.  I wonder if recovery time will then be affected, though.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4687 on: 23/06/2009 21:12:35 »
Accident????

I first started feeling POIS when I was 14, but I had been able to achieve orgasm for at least 8 months before that, and without any notable problems.  It is hard for me to recall exactly when POIS symptoms started, but I believe it may have been within a month of an accident I had (before or after I am not sure).  I really hope there is no connection, (and there is a good chance there isn't), but I'm curious if anyone had a similar experience. 

I had taken an airplane, and was unable to relieve the pressure from my ears.  When I landed, the pressure was immense.  I tried plugging my nose and blowing, which I think stimulated my vagus nerve and caused me to faint, apparently hitting my head fairly hard on the tile floor.  I am guessing I became conscious within about 5-10 minutes.

I was taken to the emergency room in the hospital by ambulance, where a doctor shone a light in my eyes, and my response was normal.  Then I was free to go.  I did not have any kind of brain scan at the time, which I think is fairly standard procedure in these situations. 

So did anyone here have any kind of head trauma, or similar experience, before they noticed POIS?  I'd greatly appreciate your feedback.

Edit: I'd also be curious to hear if POIS "developed", or if you had it as soon as you were able to have orgasm.
« Last Edit: 23/06/2009 21:25:42 by Counterpoints »

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4688 on: 23/06/2009 21:38:57 »
CP,
Quote
Question... I find it very difficult to "abstain" for more than 3 days.  I get very tense, I find it difficult to focus, and my thoughts become less fluent -- as does my writing.  This isn't the same as POIS, I imagine it's somewhat common for people who have gone long periods of time, but it's probably related.  It's severe enough that my productivity decreases, even when I am trying my best to focus.

Very serendipitous, I just experienced this last week! As I reported I didn't have my typical POIS experience but there was a anxiety day on about a 3 day lag from orgasm. The next day I was back to normal. I have previously heard of this reaction from a friend years ago. I remember it distinctly because it was the only time I had ever heard someone relate a mental state to sex. As this was "my world" I took notice. As a separate issue from POIS I suspect it might be something quite common, a more mainstream reaction. Whether the reason for the anxiety is recognized is another matter. When I see someone having an anxious day I sometimes wonder if they are in this "withdrawl".

I did have one bang to the head when I was 14ish as well. I was at a camp and was hanging from the rafters and fell on my head, and was out for a minute or so. When I came to someone was running for help but I called them off as I was embarrassed. I only mention this because of your question, I didn't suspect it was related to POIS, but who knows?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4689 on: 24/06/2009 01:45:58 »
I can't recall my first POIS episode, which is why I always say "30+ years".

No head trauma/injury that I can recall.

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Offline ajs

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4690 on: 24/06/2009 02:19:56 »
will somebody please wikipedia G-protein-coupled receptor(GPCR) and prostaglandin and tell me what u think....i really feel like there is damage to the receptors.....my pois started after getting shingles and right away started getting weird symptoms like severe vasodialation in legs that would come and go then i became very sensitive to smells,every smell was 100x stronger and some other things

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Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4691 on: 24/06/2009 06:55:29 »
sorry to cut in like this guys, but I gotta ask if anyone has any blood test data on ACTH levels (Adrenocorticotropic hormone); I think I'm close to a comprehensive theory that can be supported by data.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4692 on: 24/06/2009 18:13:46 »
sorry to cut in like this guys, but I gotta ask if anyone has any blood test data on ACTH levels (Adrenocorticotropic hormone); I think I'm close to a comprehensive theory that can be supported by data.

Yes, I have, several times.  Once they were high-normal, the other times they were normal. 

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4693 on: 24/06/2009 20:45:08 »
Just while theories are being passed about... I had a few ideas, I was going to type up more completely later.  They're not very refined, but I had to type this really quickly.

1) Incomplete orgasm.  Neurological orgasm sequence does not execute completely.  This explains the "still in sex" feeling.  It also would explain subsequent relief with another orgasm, and varying degrees of symptoms from orgasm to orgasm. 

2) Head trauma?  This could cause a malfunction like mentioned above.

3) Addiction?  During development, reward pathways, etc., adapted in such a way that causes a dramatic response to orgasm.  Unlike other addictions, this is hard to break, because it is almost entirely internal.  (e.g. we are not consuming a chemical). 

4) Holstege et. al have done relatively detailed studies of the neurological response to orgasm.  In men, the VTA in the brain is stimulated by orgasm as it is with heroin use.  This connects to point 3).   It is also significant because a vast majority of cases here are described by men.  The amygdala (involved in the "fight or flight" response, and processing fearful stimuli) is also affected by orgasm... explaining some of the symptoms, and could possibly connect to the above points.

5) Spinal chord injury.  Could have happened during development.  Apparently parts of the spine are activated during orgasm (Holstege et. al).

6) Pituitary/adrenal, as discussed. The pituitary gland regulates sexual function.  There are also probably many chemicals associated with the sexual response that are not known or are not routinely measured, which are regulated by the pituitary.  Therefore a pituitary adenoma could cause POIS like problems.  Pituitary adenomas are also known to cause cyclical problems (e.g. cyclical hypercortisolism), but the reason for the cycles are, as far as I am aware, unknown.  Obviously the adenoma is stimulated somehow, for instance in cyclical Cushings, but we are not sure how.  In the case of POIS, if an adenoma were responsible, the stimulating factor (e.g. catalyst for malfunction) is clearly orgasm.  Based on Holstege's work, this seems plausible.  We also know that orgasm does stimulate the pituitary, as prolactin levels, etc., change immediately after orgasm.

Edit:  I remembered that Michael, someone who has posted here, was a boxer.  Maybe that could relate to #2?
« Last Edit: 24/06/2009 22:43:00 by Counterpoints »

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4694 on: 24/06/2009 22:07:37 »
i noticed POIS over time.  At first I started getting really tired to the point where I was sleeping in every class and couldn't deal with the stress of daily life.  I thought this was from my coffee consumption.  Then one day I felt as if a cloud of fog entered my head while I was just sitting down in a chair.  And than POIS began.

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Offline Langjahr

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4695 on: 24/06/2009 23:14:32 »
My last post was on 6/17 and today is the first day I feel good again. My wife approached my to have sex today, we did but in the first time in 21 years of marriage I purposely did not have an orgasm because I did not want to fell like gargage again. POIS sucks!!!

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4696 on: 25/06/2009 01:56:26 »
My last post was on 6/17 and today is the first day I feel good again. My wife approached my to have sex today, we did but in the first time in 21 years of marriage I purposely did not have an orgasm because I did not want to fell like gargage again. POIS sucks!!!

good for you, I did do it today and felt total transformation of personality.  Mine only last for about 5 hours now and is pretty much gone when I get up the next day.
« Last Edit: 25/06/2009 05:15:27 by goingcrazy »

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4697 on: 25/06/2009 01:58:18 »
Another theory, maybe orgasm isn't "contained" in our heads? Maybe the right chemicals are released except maybe they are released in the wrong location.  When I orgasmed today it felt like it came from the back of my head, to the sides and a bit in the front.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4698 on: 25/06/2009 02:25:52 »
Pyro, looking forward to your thoughts.

Testosterone is helping me immensely, but Day Zero is still unpleasant.

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Offline Pronobis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #4699 on: 25/06/2009 14:10:59 »
Hi everyone,

I was in journey and I slept a little, I was tired all the time. So I had some POIS symptomes even if I didn't orgasme since 3 weeks. Same after every 2 sleepless night that I spend in my job.
So I think sleep - stress - POIS are very close to each other