Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

  • 20068 Replies
  • 6526839 Views

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5950 on: 03/11/2009 20:52:49 »
Someone? How about you?

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5951 on: 03/11/2009 21:04:28 »

H1N1 vaccine?

Squalene, one of the vaccine components, according to some critics, caused Gulf War 1 symptoms. It was in the anthrax vaccine.

Scary if true!

Can anyone refute that?

I'm staying away. My wife disagrees, thinks the benefit outweighs the risks.

I'm fairly certain that my last flu shot a few years ago made me sick. My GP says it couldn't have. I'm ready to fire yet another GP!
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 02:55:31 by demografx »

*

Offline CertainlyPOIS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 727
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5952 on: 03/11/2009 21:09:58 »
I found more evidence for the immune systmem being cause or at least possible part.
In the article it talks about how it cause cognition problems and fatigue and so on. But the interesting part is that Il-1 increases ACTH and excess release of cortisol is suppose to stop the inflammation response.  But when i did my endocrine test my acth was slightly elevated but cortisol was normal. And I think martinn 88 said his acth was elevated to.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/157/5/683
under endocrine effect. long article

Am going to be doing inflammatory test through integrative psychiatry do you guys know if they are trustworthy. i try google search but nothing came up. 

does any body know why lef.org inflammation test is two times that of integrative psychiatry
« Last Edit: 03/11/2009 21:48:37 by CCconfucius »

*

Offline CertainlyPOIS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 727
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5953 on: 03/11/2009 21:16:13 »

H1N1vaccine?

Squalene, one of the vaccine components, according to some critics, caused Gulf War 1 symptoms. Scary if true! Can anyone refute that?

I'm staying away. My wife disagrees, thinks the benefit outweighs the risks.

I'm fairly certain that my last flu shot a few years ago made me sick. My GP says it couldn't have. I'm ready to fire yet another GP!
[/quote\
even squalence is can cause gulfwar syndrome i dont think there is enough in it to match what solders experience in gulf war.

*

Offline CertainlyPOIS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 727
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5954 on: 03/11/2009 22:07:11 »
am on a roll here guys
 i have been trying to connect that two day high/hyperness/fantastic mental state/tremendous energy to  immune system  and i have found. 
Catecholamines are known to reduce inflammation response and reduce cytokines in body. It is a well known effect in the body.
Catecholamines in excess in body are known to create that "high" effect, could these be how our body returns to normal on the seventh day.

what do you guys think.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120778223/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1666138/?page=1
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u16j1143vh3x765v/fulltext.pdf

*

Offline Defsync

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 161
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5955 on: 03/11/2009 22:51:51 »
am on a roll here guys
 i have been trying to connect that two day high/hyperness/fantastic mental state/tremendous energy to  immune system  and i have found. 
Catecholamines are known to reduce inflammation response and reduce cytokines in body. It is a well known effect in the body.
Catecholamines in excess in body are known to create that "high" effect, could these be how our body returns to normal on the seventh day.

what do you guys think.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120778223/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1666138/?page=1
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u16j1143vh3x765v/fulltext.pdf


first and last link are not accessible (?) to me

ill see yer article, and raise you this one:

http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/983519.dtl

that says some things like:
"Testosterone treatment reduced the severity of EAE in females with a concomitant increase in TH2 cytokines."

Lets say it is an autoimmune reaction, like MS. There are MANY different types of cytokines that can be good/bad. We'd have to figure out which ones are the cause of POIS for specific targeted treatment. However it looks like testosterone may be a good treatment overall for reducing many of the inflammatory occurrences from these cytokines.

I still have yet to get over to the medical university library. Im itching to wait till I heave health insurance so I can try stuff out if i find anything useful. I definitely am going to get my doctor to prescribe me some Testosterone to see if it works, as some are saying it may.

*

Offline John21

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 518
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5956 on: 03/11/2009 23:26:33 »
Demo,

Quote
H1N1vaccine?

Squalene, one of the vaccine components, according to some critics, caused Gulf War 1 symptoms. Scary if true! Can anyone refute that?

Yes.

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5957 on: 04/11/2009 03:01:32 »

Even if squalene can cause gulfwar syndrome i dont think there is enough in it to match what solders experience in gulf war.


Some people say H1N1 has more than Gulf War.

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5958 on: 04/11/2009 03:15:15 »
John, thank you, I was glad to read that article, I have low regard for the doctor propagating that theory. However, I didn't notice his name in the several that I googled.

I say "glad" because I don't want that theory to be true, thinking about the future of millions of children!

There's a 10 minute video at the CBS and CNN sites, kind of negative, I think. And my wife has seen solid presentations from both sides, and concludes positively.

This all makes me reach for my trusty quarter, flip it in the air and decide on heads or tails decision!

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5959 on: 04/11/2009 03:23:18 »

How do you evaluate a debate in which both sides seem to have impressive world-class medical backgrounds?

*

Offline martin88

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 453
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5960 on: 04/11/2009 03:56:34 »
Thanks CC for these good posts on immune system. Difficult to say which one come first: problem with immune system or low catecholamines.

About testosterone I'm wondering why the patches were working for you Demo, and not the T shots. I heard that Andriol (oral T pills) is safe for the liver (bypass the liver) and is absorbed through the lymphatic system. Is it possible that the same is happening with patches ? (less strong on liver))
 
An other possibility is that T is absorbed very slowly in a more regular manner with patches so the androgen receptors are not downregulated by sudden high doses of T (hypothesis).

I really think we have a problem with androgen receptors in the brain after orgasm:
The androgen receptor density in brain areas closely related to the expression of masculine sexual behavior, such as the medial preoptic nucleus, was drastically reduced in sexually exhausted animals. Such reduction was specific to certain brain areas and was not related to changes in the levels of androgens. These results suggest that changes in brain androgen receptors account for the inhibition of sexual behavior present during sexual exhaustion.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118874269/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

(I also read in other study that estrogen receptors are increased after sex, this too can be involved in sexual satiation).

Now, how to boost androgen receptors: someone here a long time ago told us to try carnitine for that..
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 03:59:47 by martin88 »

*

Offline martin88

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 453
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5961 on: 04/11/2009 04:07:02 »
Drugs to help with androgen receptors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_androgen_receptor_modulator

Therapy for andropause with SARM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMS-564,929

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5962 on: 04/11/2009 05:04:07 »

About testosterone I'm wondering why the patches were working for you Demo, and not the T shots. I heard that Andriol (oral T pills) is safe for the liver (bypass the liver) and is absorbed through the lymphatic system. Is it possible that the same is happening with patches ? (less strong on liver))
 
An other possibility is that T is absorbed very slowly in a more regular manner with patches so the androgen receptors are not downregulated by sudden high doses of T (hypothesis).


According to my endo, patches (and gel) deliver T "in a more regular manner" as you say, mimicking the steady, smooth 24/7 delivery of natural testosterone. Injections, he says, cause erratic, violent "spikes" in the system. The high and low nature of injections make it much less effective. That has now proven true for me in treating POIS.

My theory is that MORE testosterone can help a number of POIS sufferers. I have 7 years of on-off experience with T. 2 years ago when I thought I had a 75% POIS cure with Levitra, it might have come from the T-injections.

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5963 on: 04/11/2009 05:37:28 »


Now, how to boost androgen receptors: someone here a long time ago told us to try carnitine for that..


Google search result for carnitine/POIS Forum:
http://www.google.com/search?q=carnitine+POIS+site:http://thenakedscientists.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

*

Offline martin88

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 453
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5964 on: 04/11/2009 13:32:44 »
My theory is that MORE testosterone can help a number of POIS sufferers.
I'm not against your theory, low T or low AR will produce the same result which is POIS.
I think androgen receptors are important because the depletion after sex has been scientifically measured like for prolactin.
This bring the fact that even if some research is conducted and we find something, there is still the difficult part to find a cure by going through drugs trials.
I can eventually consider to try T just to see if it works. I was about to do it years ago, but it has been difficult to convince my doc, and probably if you have to convince him, maybe he's not experienced enough with T.. After that, I think I came accross this forum when you were saying "only the first shot was effective, subsequent were placebo." and I gave up.
One thing is sure I'm reticent to take T for the next 50 years.
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 13:55:13 by martin88 »

*

Offline martin88

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 453
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5965 on: 04/11/2009 13:38:40 »
CC your 3 links are not accessible (2nd temporary unavailable), maybe you can copy this info here.
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 14:03:41 by martin88 »

*

Offline martin88

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 453
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5966 on: 04/11/2009 14:20:36 »
Tissot (18th century) was a doctor who wrote a whole book only about the bad consequences of onanism. I didn't read his book and don't know where to find it, but I heard he said that quinquina is the best remedy to fight POIS. I'm not sure if it's by killing sexual desire or by stimulating it.
Quinquina is indicated for fever and influenza:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vulgaris-medical.com%2Fphytotherapie%2Fencyclopedie-phyto%2Fquinquina-117.html&sl=fr&tl=en&history_state0=

I think it's linked with hydration of the body. If someone can know on which part of the body this remedy is acting maybe we'll know more on POIS. 
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 14:23:38 by martin88 »

*

Offline pauliebaby61

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 21
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5967 on: 04/11/2009 15:35:40 »
"My theory is that MORE testosterone can help a number of POIS sufferers"

Im happy if some are getting positive results with more T.
I did not see any improvement with high does of injectable T, 2x a week.
Has anyone had any relief taking a histamine blocker?

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5968 on: 04/11/2009 16:32:47 »

you were saying "only the first [testosterone] shot was effective, subsequent were placebo." and I gave up.

One thing is sure I'm reticent to take T for the next 50 years.



I did not see any improvement with high doses of injectable T, 2x a week.


Yes, I'm now convinced that shots/injections are erratic, but that testosterone patches or gel can be very effective against POIS. And I suspect that testosterone may be effective for many POIS sufferers, regardless of how they test initially. This remains to be proven, however, under careful physician supervision.

Martin, why the huge reticence? ("50 years")
« Last Edit: 04/11/2009 17:28:47 by demografx »

*

Offline pauliebaby61

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 21
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5969 on: 04/11/2009 23:30:29 »
Before doing T shots, I did 3 forms of topical testosterone.
I did Androgel patches, which did nothing but burn my skin severely.
I did a compounded cream, with no results.
I did Testim, which did nothing but made me very nauseous.
None of the topicals raised my T level of any significance.
The T shots, 2x a week have been the most helpful by far, raising my T level from 105 to 896, and increased my libido.
It has done nothing for the POIS however.

*

Offline martin88

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 453
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5970 on: 05/11/2009 04:08:42 »
Demo, my hesitation come from possible side effects and it's not usual for me to take drugs since a very long time. I agree the theory of androgen receptors doesn't fit (I can't find a connection) with your positive experience with T therapy.

Before doing T shots, I did 3 forms of topical testosterone.
I did Androgel patches, which did nothing but burn my skin severely.
I did a compounded cream, with no results.
I did Testim, which did nothing but made me very nauseous.
None of the topicals raised my T level of any significance.
The T shots, 2x a week have been the most helpful by far, raising my T level from 105 to 896, and increased my libido.
It has done nothing for the POIS however.
For me low libido is highly linked with POIS.. Maybe Demo's stuff is the right one :)

*

Offline acronym

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 154
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5971 on: 05/11/2009 13:26:13 »
There have been a few posts of late revolving around Testosterone. Like Pauliebaby I was also disappointed with T at higher than normal dosages. I am still on T now. I actually prefer the injectable form and take lower dose but more frequently. Demo's theory regarding higher dose T being more beneficial for pois also carries some weight with me.

I have heard of someone who suffered badly from sexual dysfunction after taking hair lose drug Proscar who managed to restore their health by 'upping; the dose of testosterone. Proscar is designed to block DHT. There are a number of men who suffer from major loss of libido, ED, diminished orgasm brain fog, poor memory, anxiety, apathy, emotional bluntness, etc after taking Proscar. A few others have restored their health somewhat by taking drugs like HCG and Clomid to help kick start their gonads or GHB which helps improve sleep + growth hormone. While their symptoms are not the same as pois there is some crossover. Like pois sufferers these guys have websites where they throw around different theories and also consistently how doctors tell them their symptoms are just in their mind.

From my personal experience, I definitely experienced a phase of better health and reduced pois when I had high T readings. Here is the kicker though...I was not on Testosterone at the time. Being disappointed in T (plus also never registering decent blood readings) I wanted to try an anabolic as opposed to an androgenic steroid (not unlike Martin88's recent post on SARMs). I was on Nandrolone at 1/2 the amount of Test that I had previously been on but my T results were the highest ever, which does not make sense. Nandrolone increases blood cell production + increased protein synthesis. It also does not aromatise. On the downside after while it was impossible to get an erection, though some here might think that’s not such a bad thing. There is very little chance though that you are going to be able to talk your doctor into scripting you an anabolic especially when they don’t even take pois seriously. From my perspective, Demografx is so lucky to be getting so much relief from pois + also a boosted libido to boot.

Pauliebaby
maybe it might pay for you to read up on a supplement called DIM (Diindolymethane). I did not think I was suffering from excess estrogens but I have started to trial this. I feel somewhat better but nothing dramatic, but I am on lower dose of T for the moment.

Also your post on anti-histimes, these where discussed a bit back a month or so ago, after someone posted a really interesting post on a condition that involved excess histamine. I have taken anti-histimes on and off over the years and never felt better on them. Old versions used to just make me more drowsey and when you already have CFS that side effect was terrible. These days though I take zrytec when I need to. I have better concentration + more energy when I take it but that dramtic effect really only occurs on hay fever days.


*

Offline CertainlyPOIS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 727
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5972 on: 05/11/2009 19:50:14 »
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/120778223/HTMLSTART
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=author:%22Elenkov%22+intitle:%22Stress+hormones,+proinflammatory+and+antiinflammatory+...%22+&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholarr
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=catecholamines+and+inflammation&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I gave google search for one of articles,html link and abstract the articles are to long.

ABSTRACT
Abstract: Recent evidence indicates that glucocorticoids and catecholamines, the major stress hormones, inhibit the production of proinflammatory cytokines, such as interleukin (IL)-12, tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-α, and interferon (IFN)-γ, whereas they stimulate the production of antiinflammatory cytokines, such as IL-10, IL-4, and transforming growth factor (TGF)-β. Thus, systemically, an excessive immune response, through activation of the stress system, stimulates an important negative feedback mechanism, which protects the organism from an "overshoot" of proinflammatory cytokines and other products of activated macrophages with tissue-damaging potential. Conversely, in certain local responses and under certain conditions, stress hormones actually may boost regional immune responses, through induction of TNF-α, IL-1, and IL-8, and by inhibiting TGF-β production. Therefore, conditions that are associated with significant changes in stress system activity, such as acute or chronic stress, cessation of chronic stress, severe exercise, and pregnancy and the postpartum period, through modulation of the systemic or local pro/antiinflammatory cytokine balance, may suppress or potentiate autoimmune diseases activity and/or progression.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5973 on: 06/11/2009 08:26:45 »

CC, would you please advise, regarding POIS, what your post directly above is meant to convey, or which previous post you're trying to address or add to? Thank you.
« Last Edit: 06/11/2009 08:33:08 by demografx »

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5974 on: 06/11/2009 15:53:02 »
Tribulus has come up again, so here's an old post, new reply

Quote

I'm now trying Tribulus Terrestris - its basically like swallowing testosterone.  TT, short for Tribulus Terrestris, stimulates LH that stimulates testosterone.


About Tribulus, from wikipedia:

"The extract is claimed to increase the body's natural testosterone levels and thereby improve male sexual performance and help build muscle. T. terrestris has consistently failed to increase testosterone levels in controlled studies.[6][7][8] It has also failed to demonstrate strength-enhancing properties.[9] However, many supplement brands have sold products that combine various herbs with T. terrestris, with debatable effects."

*

Offline CertainlyPOIS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 727
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5975 on: 06/11/2009 17:38:52 »
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/120778223/HTMLSTART
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=author:%22Elenkov%22+intitle:%22Stress+hormones,+proinflammatory+and+antiinflammatory+...%22+&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholarr
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=catecholamines+and+inflammation&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I gave google search for one of articles,html link and abstract the articles are to long.

ABSTRACT
Abstract: Recent evidence indicates that glucocorticoids and catecholamines, the major stress hormones, inhibit the production of proinflammatory cytokines, such as interleukin (IL)-12, tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-α, and interferon (IFN)-γ, whereas they stimulate the production of antiinflammatory cytokines, such as IL-10, IL-4, and transforming growth factor (TGF)-β. Thus, systemically, an excessive immune response, through activation of the stress system, stimulates an important negative feedback mechanism, which protects the organism from an "overshoot" of proinflammatory cytokines and other products of activated macrophages with tissue-damaging potential. Conversely, in certain local responses and under certain conditions, stress hormones actually may boost regional immune responses, through induction of TNF-α, IL-1, and IL-8, and by inhibiting TGF-β production. Therefore, conditions that are associated with significant changes in stress system activity, such as acute or chronic stress, cessation of chronic stress, severe exercise, and pregnancy and the postpartum period, through modulation of the systemic or local pro/antiinflammatory cytokine balance, may suppress or potentiate autoimmune diseases activity and/or progression.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


this post is to the response that my links do not work, i hope this ones works. And instead of posting the main article i posted the abstract.

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5976 on: 07/11/2009 02:19:19 »

this post [below] is to the response that my links do not work, i hope this ones works. And instead of posting the main article i posted the abstract.



http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/120778223/HTMLSTART
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=author:%22Elenkov%22+intitle:%22Stress+hormones,+proinflammatory+and+antiinflammatory+...%22+&um=1&ie=UTF-8&oi=scholarr
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=catecholamines+and+inflammation&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I gave google search for one of articles,html link and abstract the articles are to long.

ABSTRACT
Abstract: Recent evidence indicates that glucocorticoids and catecholamines, the major stress hormones, inhibit the production of proinflammatory cytokines, such as interleukin (IL)-12, tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-α, and interferon (IFN)-γ, whereas they stimulate the production of antiinflammatory cytokines, such as IL-10, IL-4, and transforming growth factor (TGF)-β. Thus, systemically, an excessive immune response, through activation of the stress system, stimulates an important negative feedback mechanism, which protects the organism from an "overshoot" of proinflammatory cytokines and other products of activated macrophages with tissue-damaging potential. Conversely, in certain local responses and under certain conditions, stress hormones actually may boost regional immune responses, through induction of TNF-α, IL-1, and IL-8, and by inhibiting TGF-β production. Therefore, conditions that are associated with significant changes in stress system activity, such as acute or chronic stress, cessation of chronic stress, severe exercise, and pregnancy and the postpartum period, through modulation of the systemic or local pro/antiinflammatory cytokine balance, may suppress or potentiate autoimmune diseases activity and/or progression.




Thanks, CC!
« Last Edit: 07/11/2009 02:47:28 by demografx »

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5977 on: 07/11/2009 02:43:40 »

An other possibility is that T is absorbed very slowly in a more regular manner with patches so the androgen receptors are not downregulated by sudden high doses of T (hypothesis).


This makes sense to me.

Regarding injectables, my endo says he doesn't know for sure why 2x a week of high dose wouldn't be effective, but he wonders if the injections are done right, if a real depotestosterone is being used, or if there is no element of hypogonadism (testosterone insufficiency).


*

Offline martin88

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 453
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5978 on: 07/11/2009 03:51:02 »
Thanks CC (still can't access the first link because I'm not logged in their site, but ok for others)
I was thinking about your experience concerning weight gain and POIS, personally I'm rather thin but maybe simply the stress caused by POIS could be the cause if you're predisposed.
http://stress.about.com/od/stresshealth/a/weightgain.htm

It seems everything is linked (catecholamines - stress-  T - immune system - glycemia.) I'm not sure to understand everything about the immune system link with POIS, except catecholamines and flu like symptoms and maybe zinc.. I have to read more on it. I probably missed a couple of posts explaining this.

*

Offline martin88

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 453
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5979 on: 07/11/2009 04:14:51 »
Glucose is absolutely necessary for the brain. I suppose glycemia will always be maintained at the expense of other systems. After reading this below I'm wondering if testosterone + glucose can help the brain to work better.

Testosterone Decreases After Ingestion Of Sugar (Glucose)
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/153837.php
The authors found that the glucose solution decreased blood levels of testosterone by as much as 25 percent, regardless of whether the men had diabetes, prediabetes or normal glucose tolerance.

Two hours after glucose administration, the testosterone level remained much lower than before the test in 73 of the 74 men, a statistically significant difference, the authors reported. Of the 66 men who had normal testosterone levels before the test, 10 (15 percent) became hypogonadal at one or more time points during the test.


When sexually abstinent I always noticed that more carbs/low protein help me to lower libido. Also, specially when I have a lot of energy from sexual abstinence, I won't go very far in a long effort with a meal without carbs (low GI)

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5980 on: 07/11/2009 05:37:48 »


From my perspective, Demografx is so lucky to be getting so much relief from pois + also a boosted libido to boot.


I feel extremely fortunate. After 30+ years of POIS, I thought it was impossible for life to be any different. 

*

Offline utur

  • First timers
  • *
  • 2
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5981 on: 07/11/2009 10:52:19 »
Hello

I have been following this forum for some time.
Found this:
Orgasm’s Hidden Cycle
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/200908/orgasm-s-hidden-cycle
Perhaps you'll find it interesting.

*

Offline Limejuice

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 313
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5982 on: 07/11/2009 20:14:18 »
This really reminds me of POIS in every way.  Except we POIS suffers experience extreme recovery symptoms compared to other normal people.

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5983 on: 07/11/2009 21:01:03 »

Hello

I have been following this forum for some time.
Found this:
Orgasm’s Hidden Cycle
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/200908/orgasm-s-hidden-cycle

Perhaps you'll find it interesting.


Thanks, the author is a member and friend of this forum!

*

Offline RhythmSpring

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 54
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5984 on: 08/11/2009 18:47:33 »
Here's a little humorous insight into POIS:
http://www.watchxonline.com/media/2838-malcolm-in-the-middle-406-forbidden-girlfriend.php

What happens between Lois and Hal...

*

Offline mister_z

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 37
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5985 on: 09/11/2009 13:18:15 »
Just a quick update, I am currently being investigated for IBS-like syndrome. It was found during the investigation that I have way too much tension in the perineum area.
I also myself observed that I tend to have inflammatory cystitis during POIS-like fits/periods
I dont know if this is relevant or not...

*

Offline GoingCrazy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 554
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5986 on: 09/11/2009 16:27:49 »
For the dopamine/prolactin issue, I read that it can take up to 2 years to restore proper dopamine levels in the brain after "dopamine addiction"  and maybe after every orgasm dopamine drops to below normal levels leaving us with very little of it.

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5987 on: 09/11/2009 17:51:59 »
Just a quick update, I am currently being investigated for IBS-like syndrome. It was found during the investigation that I have way too much tension in the perineum area.
I also myself observed that I tend to have inflammatory cystitis during POIS-like fits/periods
I dont know if this is relevant or not...

I'm very skeptical of "IBS" diagnosis, even though I "have it".

I think "IBS" is a physician reaction when they have NO CLUE as to what's wrong with us! (I've gone through multiple GI physicians, upper and lower GI's, colonoscopies, and nausea labs bloodwork - 10+ years' worth).

Just my opinion.

My main "IBS" symptom is nausea. Immediately at the start of POIS, the nausea is worse. I see that as analogous to your inflammatory cystitis situation.
« Last Edit: 09/11/2009 18:08:55 by demografx »

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5988 on: 09/11/2009 18:06:41 »

For the dopamine/prolactin issue, I read that it can take up to 2 years to restore proper dopamine levels in the brain after "dopamine addiction"  and maybe after every orgasm dopamine drops to below normal levels leaving us with very little of it.


if you can recall where you read this, please post a link.

*

Offline Pablo445

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 53
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5989 on: 09/11/2009 22:23:08 »
Wow!  254 pages of messages for POIS topic and 456846 Views! I do feel very late to the party indeed. But I am very happy the thread is still going on and hopefully I will be able to add a contribution as well. I too am glad I found you!

I read more or less 30 pages before jumping in. My story, like everybody else it seems, is very similar and yet is somewhat different with its own particularity.

The days following ejaculation and orgasm, I feel totally exhausted and depleted.  I my case it only starts on the second day (if I have an orgasm on Monday, I will be feeling good on Tuesday and then I will start feeling poorly on Wednesday). That feeling does last for about 5 to 8 days at this point. This is no ordinary tiredness - I don't feel physically very tired (I could do physical work or climb a moutain even), it is more that I feel emotionally drained (down and depressed, anxious and very irritable too) and especially mentally depleted (confusion, lack of focus, short attention span, brain fog, cannot find my words (especially names), forgetting my thoughts in the middle of a sentence, with terrible nightmares too (anyone else for the nightmares?). Physically I do experience some night sweats, a dry mouth, a decrease in the quality of my eyesight together with many eye floaters, and weaker digestion too. Sometimes an eye twitch as well and itching scalp.

It seems to me that my body/mind interpret an orgasm as a huge stress and then I suffer from post-traumatic stress. I know it sounds ridiculous to most people but probably not to this group. This problem started years ago after a period of unbelievable stress. Previous to this period, I only experienced these post-orgasm symptoms very faintly only if I had "excessive sex".  But nowadays "excessive" just means making love once in a while! I am a 57 years old happily married man. I feel very comfortable with intimacy and sexuality in general.
My libido is normal, I have no erectile dysfunction, and orgasm is very pleasurable. Actually It seems the more enjoyable and strong the orgasm is, the more difficult POIS is afterwards.

I eat well (no junk food whasoever, no sugar either which makes my problem worse), I exercise and meditate regularly. Aerobic exercises 3 to 5 times a week seems to help more than lifting weight or streching although it all helps. I had psychotherapy too which has been helpful – but mostly at accepting my situation and “cleaning up” old stressful events.  My life at this point is not very stressful, it is a good life actually. But I would like to recapture the ability to enjoy it more!

In my case it seems to be directly related to my reaction to stress in general. If a stressful event happens I do have the same symptoms but more lightly. First I get excited and then I crash.  If I drink coffee, tea or eat chocolate or sugar or alcool I also have the same symptoms after the initial high. My ability to deal with stress in general is not working properly. All my responses are exagerated.

I’ll stop here for now as a way to say hello - but I have much more to say.

Pablo

*

Offline mister_z

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 37
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5990 on: 09/11/2009 22:41:23 »
In my case it seems to be directly related to my reaction to stress in general. If a stressful event happens I do have the same symptoms but more lightly. First I get excited and then I crash.  If I drink coffee, tea or eat chocolate or sugar or alcool I also have the same symptoms after the initial high. My ability to deal with stress in general is not working properly. All my responses are exagerated.

Do you suffer from migraines? Panic attacks?
Also, have you tried benzos, SSRIs, SNRIs and such psychoactive drugs?

*

Offline Pablo445

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 53
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5991 on: 09/11/2009 22:50:03 »
Do you suffer from migraines? Panic attacks?
Also, have you tried benzos, SSRIs, SNRIs and such psychoactive drugs?

Hello mister_z
No migraines ever.
No more panic attacks since I started meditation in 2001 (after 2 months of practise)

I have tried several medications but I had more negative reactions than positive ones. So now I am not taking any medications at all. I am trying to find gradual natural non-toxic solutions instead. Has any of the above drugs been helpful to you?

*

Offline mister_z

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 37
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5992 on: 09/11/2009 23:10:42 »
I have tried several medications but I had more negative reactions than positive ones. So now I am not taking any medications at all. I am trying to find gradual natural non-toxic solutions instead. Has any of the above drugs been helpful to you?
Not really, though I haven't tried SNRIs yet.
I have tried theanine, 5HTP and such, didn't do much for me.
Perhaps tyrosine helps a bit if taken right after orgasm, however, I need to confirm this.

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5993 on: 09/11/2009 23:12:23 »

Pablo445, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

Our new POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send me a Private Message with your regular email address and I'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community. This can help fight the immediate reaction of some: IT'S NOT "ALL IN OUR HEADS"!

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for nearly 3 years, which has attracted over 150 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 400,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!
« Last Edit: 10/11/2009 02:33:30 by demografx »

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5994 on: 09/11/2009 23:17:53 »


Pablo445, this post will help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this forum:


SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: over 2 years' worth of posts from 150+ Forum members, and an additional 150 POIS sufferers found on the Internet, but not on this forum.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx POIS site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.

*

Offline Defsync

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 161
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5995 on: 10/11/2009 01:27:45 »
im kinda bothered by the fact SOOO much research has been done on POIS and posted about in this forum, and yet no university or research group has taken up the cause. is this forum not moderated by Cambridge people? im sure there are a lot of other pressing issues, but seriously folks you read about research done on such obscure and hardly-ever-heard-of ailments that affect oh 1 in 100,000,000 people yet POIS still hasnt been looked at, and could possible affect a huge amount of people worldwide?

this forum has been up for 2 years, and seriously, go find me another forum somewhere where SO many people have tried SO many things to find a cure for a rare condition, with so much research done and so many things tried... i just dont get it. i dont want to turn 50 (im turning 33 very soon) with still no major medical or scientific groups having looked into POIS...

how do you guys deal with it? have any of you spawned some artistic venting? used anger from lack-of-a-cure to motivate you to do some greater things?

or flip the coin have any of you been so devastated by this that you've done self-destructive things? messed up your life in some way from the sheer frustration?

artists create art from the pain of cancer, war, abuse, politics, OLD AGE, etc... maybe we need to write a freakin song or do a painting.....

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5996 on: 10/11/2009 02:46:08 »

im kinda bothered by the fact SOOO much research has been done on POIS and posted about in this forum, and yet no university or research group has taken up the cause. is this forum not moderated by Cambridge people? im sure there are a lot of other pressing issues, but seriously folks you read about research done on such obscure and hardly-ever-heard-of ailments that affect oh 1 in 100,000,000 people yet POIS still hasnt been looked at, and could possible affect a huge amount of people worldwide?


We're just about 3 months' shy of 3 years existence.

We've approached a few major universities, including Cambridge, and other groups/individuals, but I'm surprised to see you write that researching rare disorders is the norm. It's the exception. To recoup the investment in research, big numbers are needed. Cancer, AIDS, MS, etc.

We also have an impediment in that our disorder is about...sex. Some people would go so far as to say that this is "frivolous"...or a moral issue. True, we're out of the Victorian era, but hardly 100& enlightened. And all too often, the medical community perceives that this is "all in our heads".

That's why NORD is around. They're happy to help us - and just about any rare disorder - IF we can raise $35,000.

For rare disorders, the only sure route seems to be self-funded research. And a GROUP with a burning commitment. Sadly, I'm not sure we have that kind of group commitment here. I hope I'm wrong. I'll try again, right here: are there any volunteers to build our outreach database? (universities, researchers, etc. - Martin has built and posted an email database form) Can anyone expand on my suggestion for the very next step with a researcher or research lab? (mine was fMRI). Any volunteers to send letters out which we've already prepared? So far, there's been very little response.
« Last Edit: 10/11/2009 03:20:35 by demografx »

*

Offline Pablo445

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 53
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5997 on: 10/11/2009 02:46:29 »
Here is a little observation about unexplained improvement with POIS symptoms in one very specific instance. My wife and I enjoy going to Mexico for vacation. We usually go for 2 to 3 weeks at a time. I have noticed (with much joy) that often during these vacations (but not all the time – maybe 50% of the time) my POIS symptoms decrease to the point where we can have great sex twice a week with me feeling a little spaced out but certainly not exhausted like I do if we have sex at home even once a month. The question I have been trying to answer is why? If I had the answer I could try to replicate it at home.

Here are some ideas:
1. Because there is virtually no stress? It probably is part of the answer but if we go vacationing to a ski resort in Northern Canada that “decreasing of symptoms” does not  happen even if we are on a vacation without stress (unless cold wheather is considered a stress by itself).

2. Because we are very active physically? We walk, swim, snorkel, kayak, so yes we are more active than we are at home and it certainly helps but again if I am very active in Canada (where we live) I still crash after an orgasm. Note: exercise definitely helps even in Canada but a not nearly as much. At home I find that exercise PLUS sex avoidance gets me in good shape.

3. The salt? We swim in the ocean, the air is salty and filled with not only salt but also lots of trace elements from the sea. How would this help? I did experiment with sea salt at home but did not achieve anything worth mentioning. Plus even if we go inland where there is no ocean, I still feel better.

4. The different food? I eat more fish, more protein in general, more hot food, more garlic and cilantro, more limes and also more fruits in general. I even drink some alcohol in Mexico and it does not seem to bother me. I tried eating more of these foods at home but it does not work. Am I then allergic to something I eat at home? I looked into this and I know I react to all lentils and soy food (which I totally avoid now) but I do not feel any particular reaction to any other food. Except for coffee, tea, chocolate which I never consume whether I am in Mexico or at home. These products stimulate me and then I crash like I do after an orgasm but not quite as heavily.

5. The light? We always rent little “casitas” often with limited electricity and we go to sleep early to get up with the sun in the morning. We don’t do that at home. We get a lot more light when we spend time in Mexico. We eat and live outside all the time. Light has been known to modulate and regulate hormones . See for example Light therapy: Why it's done - MayoClinic.com http://bit.ly/2wLr1r or Light Therapy for depression http://bit.ly/4nDyJ8   

So why do I feel better in Mexico?   Maybe a combination of stress free life by the ocean, with plenty of sunshine and exercises together with great food?  :-)  Now I need to find a doctor who will prescribe this novel therapy…  But seriously the good news is that if I feel better during thses short periods it means I *can* feel better. The key may be somewhere in the Caribean.

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5998 on: 10/11/2009 02:54:16 »

I'll stop here for now as a way to say hello - but I have much more to say.


And we're looking forward to hearing it!!

*

Offline demografx

  • Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • 8197
    • View Profile
Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #5999 on: 10/11/2009 03:01:20 »

So why do I feel better in Mexico?   Maybe a combination of stress free life by the ocean, with plenty of sunshine and exercises together with great food?  :-)  Now I need to find a doctor who will prescribe this novel therapy…  But seriously the good news is that if I feel better during thses short periods it means I *can* feel better. The key may be somewhere in the Caribean.


I feel more hopeful about POIS just LOOKING at this picture. We have joked often about having an Annual POIS Retreat here:

         
« Last Edit: 10/11/2009 04:05:50 by demografx »