Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline GoingCrazy

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7050 on: 22/03/2010 00:22:11 »
I experience pretty much POIS morning-like instant brain fog when I drink beer... can kind of feel it concentrated in the front of my head, like i can rub it out of my eyes but can't.  Anybody else?

Also... no hangover this morning after a long night...weird?

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Offline Merrilee

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7051 on: 22/03/2010 01:26:01 »
How about trying a gluten-free beer? just for the sake of science

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Offline nbhopeful999

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7052 on: 22/03/2010 03:23:56 »



Glad I found this message board, seems to be a lot of activity and positive intention and hopefulness on this topic. Honostly, I'm torn as to what I think about having this condition (mine lasts about 2 -3  days). I'm 28, this has been going on for a long time, but I only recently became aware that it relates to the orgasm and ejaculation.

I swing between feeling really dissapointed that I have to sacrifice quality of life just to have an orgasm....and then thinking to myself that this has likely come about because of my over-sexed approach to life thus far, habitual and at times excessive masturbation etc.. So in this sense, I think, it is some kind of natural mechanism to realign me with the more civil side of life, heighten my spirit to greater connection with love and matters on the heart..In other words, I think perhaps that this condition is pointing me in a direction away from being so controlled by my sexual desires and impulses. In that sense it is a positive. And I think that this effect is already taking place as I find myself less and less willing to suffer the after-effects of the orgasm. I am finding greater control over my sexual impulses, and not pre occupied with masturbation so much, and perhaps not sexualizing things like I was when I was on that rollercoaster of masturbating all the time (and then feeling low and then getting off again to feel better only to feel worse and not know why).

Now that I have a partner though it is complicated. I want so badly to orgasm when we're intimate...the progression of our activity together inevitably brings us in that direction. I have been able to discipine myself enough to hold back when i am close and stop the ejaculation..saving me from the energy drain and POIS. I can tolerate it, I am honost about it with my partner, about what happens to my mood and energy levels... but I'd of course rather have the orgasm and then "spring back" in a more timely manner.

I'm curious about daveyboy's experiences in healing his POIS. His posts about the body work he underwent were interesting.  I am a semi-muscular guy. I am "in shape" but very inflexible. My body feels rigid most of the time. I often feel tightness in my neck and shoulder and lower back. This is even when I am not experiencing POIS. I think that there are likely energy blockages in my body, and I wonder if some body work including the Alexander Technique or yoga and stretching could help.

looking forward to understanding more about this.

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Offline Merrilee

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7053 on: 22/03/2010 12:24:58 »
muscular stiffness, from www.celiacnurse.com

Muscular Symptoms
Muscle symptoms may result from immunological reactions affecting the nerves or muscle tissue, a compromised blood supply to the muscles, intramuscular bleeding, and/or nutrient deficiencies. Muscular symptoms can include cramps, stiffness, spasms, weakness, aching, pain, fatigue....



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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7054 on: 22/03/2010 22:19:25 »
Wow, I just found out today what I have!!! I'm releived, in the sense that it seems to be something less lifethreatening than I thought it might be. Thoughts of cancer, or other effects more damaging all passed through my head. For me it seemed to come on rather abruptly, but now that I think about it, and with newer information about what it might be, I can see that I've had it to a lesser degree for at least 10 years. I'm 62.

I've had neck and shoulder aches, myalgia type symptoms for years, but never related them to my orgasms. The later symptoms of fever aches, joint soreness, eyes burning etc have gotten much stronger in these last two years.

But sometimes the effects are lesser, and then sometimes worse. It's been a b..... trying to discover what the heck was going on.

The only thing I felt, was as though it were an auto-immune reaction to some component of the ejaculation. I have had a vascectomy and reversal, and I thought that perhaps some component of the ejaculate was somehow entering the bloodstream.

I felt as though I shouldn't have sex because it could be producing damage to the rest of the body.... perhaps not, maybe it just feels like sh... and nothing more. That would be good news for me.

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline sick

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7055 on: 23/03/2010 00:01:50 »
guys, since the last two week I have been to a doctor and done the H.pylori breath test but the test results showed negative, I have also done CBC blood test and it turns out that I have low platelet count 123 the acceptable range is from 150-400, and I read somewhere that if the platelet count is low it can be an inductor of vitamin B12 malabsorption in the stomach, I got the vitamin B12 test results which shows that it is in the normal range 260 (211-911) but it seems to close to the low end of the scale. does any of u guys have similar results.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7056 on: 23/03/2010 01:21:53 »
nbhopeful999, and daveman, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:


Our new POIS chatroom (realtime chat). Invite or visit another member(s) there, ANY TIME. We can all get to know each other better:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/POIS/chat

Our new POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only formal medical investigation on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. Dave Schweitzer, MD.

There are 2 ways to get it: (1) if you want a PDF copy, send me a Private Message (PM) with your regular email address (use "AT" instead of "@" ) and I'll send you back the PDF. Or, if you prefer, (2) I can simply reply with a Private Message (no regular email needed) and provide you with a simple text version embedded in your PM.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show our credibility to the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition: POIS has scientific underpinnings and POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community. All of this can greatly help you to fight the immediate reaction of some doctors: so just tell them, "IT'S NOT "ALL IN OUR HEADS"!

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum, which has already been referenced in respectable sources such as the British Medical Journal and wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

For for over 3 years, our POIS forum has attracted over 150 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus over 600,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!
« Last Edit: 23/03/2010 01:29:28 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7057 on: 23/03/2010 01:24:46 »

nbhopeful999, and daveman, this post will help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this forum:


SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: 3 years' worth of posts (over 7,000 posts!) from 150+ Forum members, and an additional 150 POIS sufferers found elsewhere on the Internet by Member B_Jim.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx POIS site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7058 on: 23/03/2010 01:35:44 »

I think perhaps that this condition is pointing me in a direction away from being so controlled by my sexual desires and impulses. In that sense it is a positive.


nbhopeful999, thanks for bringing to the fore a positive aspect of POIS! We have all been bombarded so much by the negatives, it's nice to have an alternate thought expressed.

« Last Edit: 23/03/2010 01:41:16 by demografx »

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Offline nbhopeful999

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7059 on: 23/03/2010 03:37:24 »
It's really interesting to me that there are many spiritual teachings that link ejaculation with a loss of vitality. Even though these teachings use different phrases "loss of vitality, life force, chakra energies" etc, it seems to me that they are discussing the same matter that we all are discussing, except we are using secular, more scientific terms that sync more with our bio-physical (as opposed to spiritual) life perscpetive. Everything in the secular west is cause-and-effect, molecular, chemical... But you need not look far to discover many spiritual teachings that express these same concepts that we're discussing but in terms that are less concrete, talking in terms of spirit and energy.

This documentary called "Sex: the Secret Gate to Eden" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRzvyRUSNZk has so much relevance to our discussion, yet it is far from scientific.

OK, so aside from these thoughts, I have one other question I would like to ask others about...

What is your personal relationship with sex? Have you or do you use sex or orgasm to soothe yourself. This one is big for me, because I did for many years I think (though it is difficult to know if I was soothing the effects of POIS or soothing other emotional sadness). I will say that it's interesting that even though many here are having many days of distress from POIS, they continue to masturbate.. and some more than once a week (which at this point would keep me in pretty constant POIS if I did that). What is the masturbation doing, is it soothing you emotionally? I know some will say it is a needed release...but lets look deeper...let's go beyond that reliable clichè. Let's study what this release is really about, the function it is really serving. I am not saying I know the answer to this, but I think I am going to start trying to be more aware of it.

Is the sex you have or had, connected with love, or was it purely a physcial "getting your needs met" kind of sex (and yeah, meeting the needs of my partner too). This may also hold some relevence.

I don't think we need to look at this as a disorder.... Its an invitition for personal growth and expansion, let's treat is as such and not get too down about it... maybe it can lead to an understanding or evolution of self in ways we cannot yet anticipate.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7060 on: 23/03/2010 06:17:26 »

nbh, your line of thinking is encouraged. Some of us have pursued, over many years, "loss of life force" paths such as chi, Tantra, Eastern methods, etc. and have not really found relief or much in the way of solid evidence of the existence of a force such as chi. Most of us, I think, believe that POIS is a disorder, with chemical underpinnings. There is a tremendous body of gathering neurochemical evidence in the science of orgasm, which is in its infancy.

But I think most of us would welcome any approach with a solid foundation. The puzzling thing is, why is sex so devastating to only this small minority of sufferers? (We estimate 1% or less). People are not breaking down doctors' doors with devastating, multiple-days' after-sex hangovers like ours. Mostly, we get blank stares from the medical community when describing our woes.

In my own experience, I agree with you, I have seen mood, intention (e.g., love), and other intangibles affect the severity of POIS. However, without the chemical side improving, nothing intangible - again, just in my experience - has ever prevented the onslaught of POIS. I have elaborated on my own treatment here, and it has proven itself over a year now, after 30+ years of trying 'everything under the sun'.

But again, I think most of us are very open to any approach that has promise, but hopefully based on some hard, factual evidence. Just my thoughts.

nbh, welcome again to the forum!
« Last Edit: 23/03/2010 06:39:27 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7061 on: 23/03/2010 11:14:27 »
Agreed with Demografx.  And to add to that, the psychological and the physical (chemical) are not completely separate.  For example, being in love could alter the biochemistry of one's brain (just as taking a medication might), changing the response to orgasm. 

However, POIS is probably the result of a major imbalance, neurosteroid synthesis defect, opiod receptor abnormality, etc., in which case experimenting with various medications may give us a deeper insight into the underlying problem. My guess is that the best approach to recovery is a mix between experimenting with medications, a healthy lifestyle, and potentially counselling.

On the other hand, we have to be wary of people who offer 'quick solutions', and branches of medicine which claim to understand all sorts
of rare problems.  Following these paths, one might feel better, or even recover, as a result of placebo (e.g. the comfort in thinking that someone really knows what's going on).  However, it's dishonest, and most likely will lead to frustration, wasted time, and may in some cases be harmful.
« Last Edit: 23/03/2010 11:20:14 by Counterpoints »

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7062 on: 23/03/2010 16:32:45 »
 There is a paper in clinical psychology review that seems to give a great scientific overview of orgasm in general, there might be something that leads us in a good direction.  the article is in volume 21 issue 6. 
I was wondering if it is possible for anyone to get a copy through their school libraries, i am trying the internet and haven't found it yet for free. 



http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VB8-43HK1X4-1&_user=10&_coverDate=08%2F31%2F2001&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1263818896&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=891f761ae57b61ff8178f20813411403

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7063 on: 23/03/2010 17:33:52 »
Here I am, 5th day and feel as bad as the second. Yesterday wasn't so bad nor the day before. Normally it fades away gradually but sometime something peaks it up in between. But this time, I had about 4 orgasms in a week and a half. The first two went without much effect, but the third, whamo! Then I did one more a few days later, because one other time it seemed to flatten things out to have one while I was still with symptoms.... Not this time. Blaahhhh!
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7064 on: 23/03/2010 19:15:51 »

daveman, sorry to hear, I hope you feel better soon!

Demo

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7065 on: 23/03/2010 19:17:03 »

CC, do you know the cost?

edit - got it, it's $31.50. 10 yrs old, think it's worth it?
« Last Edit: 23/03/2010 21:01:30 by demografx »

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7066 on: 23/03/2010 21:27:39 »

CC, do you know the cost?

edit - got it, it's $31.50. 10 yrs old, think it's worth it?

i saw the cost that is why i posted to see if others can get it through other means.

wheteher it will worth it or not on pois am not sure, but looking at the outline it seems to contain information on different angles at looking orgasm. I also know it will contain more information on orgasm that what we can find on the internet for free, since it is posted in " clinical psychology review". Hopefully the cns,biochemistry,hormonal, and psychological angle is very detailed. Since that are very few scientific books on orgasm i think it is worth a shot.

what do you mean by " edit - got it".

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7067 on: 23/03/2010 21:32:01 »
I hope it has very good and enough information, so we can come up several new ideas on possible cause of this problem. We can then independently research the ideas, through reading,doctors, blood test and so on, and then report our findings.

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7068 on: 23/03/2010 22:02:29 »
I'd like to post my gluten free results for those trying the diet.  It's highly encouraging that the gluten free diet has eliminated my sensativity to carbs.  I no longer feel brain fog after eating gluten free foods and maintain a high level of energy throughout the day.  I'm still unsure whether gluten is the root cause of my POIS but it has alleviated POIS symptoms from nonsexual activities that produced them.  I've been on the diet for 10 days as of today.

Friends of the forum have indicated that years of dieting gluten free are required for recovery.  I feel so good after eating nongluten carbs that that won't be a big issue.

Also, my celiac's blood test results returned negative.  Strange.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7069 on: 23/03/2010 22:34:33 »

CC, do you know the cost?

edit - got it, it's $31.50. 10 yrs old, think it's worth it?


what do you mean by " edit - got it".


The edit above was written about 2 hours after I posted the question to you, before I was driving around town: but I stopped and found the cost on my phone.

Another edit: I just wrote to ScienceDirect and asked them if we could have permission to share this article within the forum, and purchase it only once.
« Last Edit: 23/03/2010 23:15:30 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7070 on: 23/03/2010 23:17:35 »

Limejuice, thanks for posting your encouraging results of gluten free dieting!

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7071 on: 23/03/2010 23:25:26 »
...I'm still unsure whether gluten is the root cause of my POIS but it has alleviated POIS symptoms from nonsexual activities that produced them...

What were these nonsexual activities?  And were the symptoms identical?

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Offline RhythmSpring

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7072 on: 23/03/2010 23:29:02 »
Wow, I just found out today what I have!!!

Well, you found out that other people have what you have and that it has a name. We're working on WHAT it is at this point... But I feel your sentiment. : )



The only thing I felt, was as though it were an auto-immune reaction to some component of the ejaculation. I have had a vascectomy and reversal, and I thought that perhaps some component of the ejaculate was somehow entering the bloodstream.

Yes, it does feel very much like an auto-immune reaction. What effect did vasectomy have on your POIS symptoms?

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Offline RhythmSpring

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7073 on: 23/03/2010 23:33:43 »
I'm curious about daveyboy's experiences in healing his POIS. His posts about the body work he underwent were interesting.  I am a semi-muscular guy. I am "in shape" but very inflexible. My body feels rigid most of the time. I often feel tightness in my neck and shoulder and lower back. This is even when I am not experiencing POIS. I think that there are likely energy blockages in my body, and I wonder if some body work including the Alexander Technique or yoga and stretching could help.

looking forward to understanding more about this.

I encourage you to explore the energy side of things as much as you feel. You might get a lot of "that doesn't work" or even "that's a bunch of new-age hokey" on this forum because, well, it's the Naked SCIENTISTS. We're very deductive and scientific round these parts.

So don't get discouraged. We need every perspective we can get. I as well am intrigued by Daveyboy's cure, and I know exactly what he is talking about when he talks about energetic armor and tension.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7074 on: 24/03/2010 01:31:48 »

CC, do you know the cost?

edit - got it, it's $31.50. 10 yrs old, think it's worth it?


what do you mean by " edit - got it".


The edit above was written about 2 hours after I posted the question to you, before I was driving around town: but I stopped and found the cost on my phone.

Another edit: I just wrote to ScienceDirect and asked them if we could have permission to share this article within the forum, and purchase it only once.

good idea, i will wait till they respond.
Did you look at the outline and see why i think it might be helpful.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7075 on: 24/03/2010 01:34:57 »
on gluten
 
i was reported tuna casarole taking away my energy, and some mental functions while i was out of pois. I ate a sandwhich with wheat bread, egss and tuna, mayo and butter and after it i got the same feeling. Am starting to suspect either wheat or tuna and still going to check on milk.  i eat eggs all the time without any feeling.  i will continue testing and report results.

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7076 on: 24/03/2010 03:27:55 »
The symptom types are identical but the intensity and duration are different (orgasm being much worst).  Eating gluten or 'carbs', taking long showers in very hot water, strenuous exersize, and stressful situations brought about symptoms.

...I'm still unsure whether gluten is the root cause of my POIS but it has alleviated POIS symptoms from nonsexual activities that produced them...

What were these nonsexual activities?  And were the symptoms identical?

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7077 on: 24/03/2010 03:35:25 »
Limejuice is going I believe, dunno what he makes of it after 10 sessions or my theories!).

I'm still taking classes and will take a few more.  So far AT has been great for my posture but hasn't effected POIS.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7078 on: 24/03/2010 04:07:39 »

Did you look at the outline and see why i think it might be helpful.


Yes, it looks very good!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7079 on: 24/03/2010 04:34:08 »


I encourage you to explore the energy side of things as much as you feel. You might get a lot of "that doesn't work" or even "that's a bunch of new-age hokey" on this forum because, well, it's the Naked SCIENTISTS. We're very deductive and scientific round these parts.


You're right, RS, The Naked SCIENTISTS really need to study more about all medical alternatives. [:)]


                          


"Headaches call for leeches on the temples"
« Last Edit: 24/03/2010 05:36:14 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7080 on: 24/03/2010 10:41:23 »

I encourage you to explore the energy side of things as much as you feel. You might get a lot of "that doesn't work" or even "that's a bunch of new-age hokey" on this forum because, well, it's the Naked SCIENTISTS. We're very deductive and scientific round these parts.


Honestly, I discourage exploration of so-called 'new age hokey', and many medical alternatives.  It really is, in my opinion, the definition of insanity to move away from science, rigour, reason, causality, etc., in search for an understanding of something.  Is there any successful predictive model, or any technology, we can rely on, that isn't scientific? 

There is no sane alternative to science.  'Exploring other possibilities' is basically just lowering your standards of deduction: rather than calling it an 'alternative to science' one might instead just call it 'bad science'.  It might make you feel good, but it's not going to do anything real for you.  And because it isn't held to the same standards, it's full of opportunists, liars, thieves, conmen, who can pretty much claim anything and get away with it.  We have this weird thing in our society where it's taboo to criticise spiritual approaches, and so on.  I think this is very unfortunate.  It basically gives a 'free-pass' to crazy ideas and dishonest people, and encourages delusional thinking. 
« Last Edit: 24/03/2010 10:46:09 by Counterpoints »

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7081 on: 24/03/2010 14:17:17 »
Yes, it does feel very much like an auto-immune reaction. What effect did vasectomy have on your POIS symptoms?

Actually I had the vasectomy many years before I began to experience POIS symptoms. The POIS symptoms could be much more related to the reversal that I had about 7 yrs before heavier POIS symptoms. I'm lucky I guess not to have had this all or even most of my sexual life.

But the reversal could be relevant. The doctor that did the reversal told me that the body is constantly disposing of unused sperm, even in a normal person. With a vasectomy, the body disposes of many more, and therefore antibody development is heavily strengthened against the sperm.

With the reversal, especially a reversal after some 25 years, the doc said that my immune system would probably kill most living sperm even if they should manage to make their way into the semen.

My first fertility tests after the reversal showed most of my sperm with *crutches and bandages* :D, and most weren't mobile (no tails), this from antibody attacks. Now exactly how this could cause POIS symptoms I don't know.

Also this isn't the case for many/most of you, but it could at least point to some mechanism which has the same results from different influences.

Like maybe somehow, damaged sperm has a second immune reaction, and we could all have damaged sperm in some way.... who knows.

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7082 on: 24/03/2010 14:30:57 »
There is no sane alternative to science.  'Exploring other possibilities' is basically just lowering your standards of deduction: rather than calling it an 'alternative to science' one might instead just call it 'bad science'. 

Most of the great scientists used science to develop and isolate the alternatives that their intuition explored. Einstein was one of the greatest transtional scientists that has existed. His mind work "outside of time and space", where much alternative energy comes from.

To bring it down to our level we use science. So I guess as Daveyboy says, "Until there's a conventional therapy for POIS ...."
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline lauracostis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7083 on: 24/03/2010 18:24:00 »
daveman, did you experience pois while you had the vasectomy, or only after you the had the reversal, or both.

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Offline lauracostis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7084 on: 24/03/2010 18:35:20 »

CC, do you know the cost?

edit - got it, it's $31.50. 10 yrs old, think it's worth it?


what do you mean by " edit - got it".


The edit above was written about 2 hours after I posted the question to you, before I was driving around town: but I stopped and found the cost on my phone.

Another edit: I just wrote to ScienceDirect and asked them if we could have permission to share this article within the forum, and purchase it only once.

good idea, i will wait till they respond.
Did you look at the outline and see why i think it might be helpful.
i don't think you can post their article openly on the internet, it would show up under a search engine here. and know one would have a reason to buy it.  what we can do is the same thing we did with the progesterone article, we can email to forum members on request.  i think this is an important article that this forum should obtain.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7085 on: 24/03/2010 19:48:54 »

Laurac, I wrote to the publisher to obtain permission to share the article _privately_ amongst members, for one price.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7086 on: 24/03/2010 20:11:17 »

There is no sane alternative to science.  'Exploring other possibilities' is basically just lowering your standards of deduction: rather than calling it an 'alternative to science' one might instead just call it 'bad science'.



Until there's a conventional therapy for POIS there is none that can be considered 'alternative'. What would it be an alternative to?



Most of the great scientists used science to develop and isolate the alternatives that their intuition explored. Einstein was one of the greatest transtional [sic] scientists that has existed. His mind work[ed] "outside of time and space", where much alternative energy comes from.

To bring it down to our level we use science. So I guess as Daveyboy says, "Until there's a conventional therapy for POIS ...."


POIS is not the only unsolved medical malady looking for a scientific answer. That's what Naked Science Forum is all about.

There are many, many forums out there looking for "alternate" answers, e.g., spiritual/religious, Reichian, chi energy, chakras, faith healing, etc. If so inclined, feel free to seek them out instead. But let us first exhaust scientific method here, which as Counterpoints indicates, is our first and best hope for a cure.

We have put a tremendous amount of effort, over a 3 year period, to make this POIS forum come alive (most new forums fail). And we did it by choosing and getting support from The Naked Scientists' Naked Science Forum.

Let's please keep it that way.

Many thanks!
« Last Edit: 25/03/2010 04:27:59 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7087 on: 24/03/2010 20:21:37 »
Until there's a conventional therapy for POIS there is none that can be considered 'alternative'. What would it be an alternative to?

I don't understand how this relates to what I've said.  'Conventional' is not synonymous with 'scientific', and whether or not there is a widely accepted scientific understanding of POIS has nothing to do with my point.

One can use a scientific approach, or an alternative [to a scientific approach].  As I outlined in my post, I think being unscientific, in our case, will be unproductive.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7088 on: 24/03/2010 20:55:09 »
In terms of science vs. "alternate methods", there is still a wide degree of freedom here to be as inclusive as possible.

As has been pointed out, we certainly don't wish to exclude a POIS solution that also may be somewhat unconventional. But the method and approach should have some empirical basis.

Acupuncture, as an example, is considered by many to be an "alternate" medical therapy. But a number of scientifically-based studies have shown acupuncture to be potentially effective as an adjunct to more traditional Western medicine in a number of cases.

However, to chase every whim and fancy and flight of thought would take more than our collective lifetimes and budgets allow.
« Last Edit: 25/03/2010 04:29:57 by demografx »

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7089 on: 25/03/2010 00:40:30 »
daveman, did you experience pois while you had the vasectomy, or only after you the had the reversal, or both.

Only after the reversal, but maybe like 5 or 6 years later the stronger symptoms came, although now that I think about it, more subtle effects could have started much closer to the reversal

« Last Edit: 25/03/2010 00:42:17 by daveman »
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7090 on: 25/03/2010 11:00:05 »
on gluten
 
i was reported tuna casarole taking away my energy, and some mental functions while i was out of pois. I ate a sandwhich with wheat bread, egss and tuna, mayo and butter and after it i got the same feeling. Am starting to suspect either wheat or tuna and still going to check on milk.  i eat eggs all the time without any feeling.  i will continue testing and report results.

Something just came to mind..... not gluten I don't think, but I was surprised when I started investigating.

Monosodium Glutamate!!! MSG, it's in almost everything packaged or processed, and most probably tuna. I began to notice that everytime I ate a certain favorite packaged soup, one of those instant 2 minute soups, especially before bed,  I got some of the "head symptoms". Although this was before I knew about POIS, I remember that sex wasn't directly involved in the process.

So before eating something processed or canned, I started checking the labels. There was sooo much stuff that contained MSG. But it really helped not to eat anything that contained this MSG.

"Normal people" don't seem to be overly affected by it, but for me it made a great difference. Lately, I've slipped back into eating anything, but in light of kowning about POIS, I'm going to start watching and controlling again.

If anybody else wants to check this out, let me know what you find.

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7091 on: 25/03/2010 13:09:17 »
I've decided I'm going to be preparing a database that relates symptoms on a time basis to the initiating stimulus, orgasm. Initially the idea is to design and produce a useful database to be able to collect fresh information and be able to view it in graphic form later.

I've found that with the brain fog, I quickly forget the details and timing of the relationships. If it can be caught in the moment, and later seen in visual form, it's possible that better perpective can be appreciated relating to cause and effect.

I hope to eventually include other influencing factors like food consumtion, excersize, etc. etc.

At first it will be a local database, until I can develop a basic WEB interface. I'll design it to accommodate many individuals. I hope that as it develops, you all can participate in its design.

Meantime, I can take contributions now as to elements that the database should/could have.

For any techies, I'll be using MS SQL and a basic .ASP interface, that's the platform that I've got on hand.

« Last Edit: 25/03/2010 13:12:08 by daveman »
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7092 on: 25/03/2010 17:20:21 »
Great. I tried to do this to compare different symptoms. But it's not easy and we need a good interface, as you said.

Well no promises, but we'll see how it goes. Trying to encompass everything surely complicates things. There are so many possible symptoms and combinations, and each person a little different, but I'm going to use the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid, for those who didn't know) at first and get into complications as I go. For now I have two symptom groups, mental and physical and levels for each symptom, 1 to 10, and each symptom is generic, where the user fills in the detail of the symptom, (pain in the neck, or joint pain, knees, etc.) Then I'll have a system to weigh each symptom to give an average for the group of symptoms at any moment in time.

I think it will be very useful when someone is silly enough to have several organsms over a short period of time. It might help to visualize effects of superimposition, like recently after a "sex spree", which for me is once every three days, I had a peak in symptoms the fifth day after the last orgasm..... What was going on there?

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7093 on: 25/03/2010 17:23:56 »
I was silly enough to have another one "orgasm", last night, and I was still with symptoms.... but my wife was so convincing!!

Oh well, I'm already filling in the database.

I'm in Chile, and just as IT was happening, we had another earthquake replica. (I think)
How does Murphey do it??

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7094 on: 25/03/2010 18:49:11 »
Do companies have to report msg on ingredient list. I looked at all ingredients for tuna sandwich no msg in any of them. My bread's top ingredients included wheat gluten and all sort of wheat types.

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7095 on: 25/03/2010 18:58:34 »

Something just came to mind..... not gluten I don't think, but I was surprised when I started investigating.

Monosodium Glutamate!!!........

Maybe you've already touched this before, but I went to investigate a bit further. MSG is an excitotoxin.... it excites brain cells. From what I understand it's sort of like a freebase glutin, stretching things a little. My sense of humor is weird.

To normal people, it only "enhances flavors" and oh yeah, causes cancer, but to us, who have something overly sensitizing our nervous systems, the perceived effect seems to be enhanced pain.

So I don't know if it just makes us feel the beating more or is part of helping that which actually effects the beating. Huh, probably both.

I'll have to go take a look to see if you've already talked about MSG here.



How does Murphey do it??

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Offline daveman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7096 on: 25/03/2010 19:49:30 »
Do companies have to report msg on ingredient list. I looked at all ingredients for tuna sandwich no msg in any of them. My bread's top ingredients included wheat gluten and all sort of wheat types.

They have to but they're master of disguises. Look for hydrogenated vegetable protein for instance....same thing practically, can come indicated as "spices" or a plethora of other disguises. Do a "MSG" on Google.... it's unbelievable
 In the end you can never be sure. the best is to eat fresh foods, and even then, chicken can be injected with many strange things.

I didn't used to care about most of this, not like I'm a health food fanatic, but, well now I guess I might have to be more careful.

How does Murphey do it??

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7097 on: 25/03/2010 20:23:32 »

I'm in Chile, and just as IT was happening, we had another earthquake replica. (I think)


daveman, I hope you don't get PEIS too, now!! [:)]
« Last Edit: 25/03/2010 20:26:43 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7098 on: 25/03/2010 20:45:11 »
Re: "The nature of human orgasm: a critical review of major trends", comprehensive article by Kenneth Maha and Yitzchak M. Binik


I think this is an important article that this forum should obtain.


Laurac, we're working on it. CCconfucius has volunteered to look into the forumn-sharing permission aspect after my correspondence with the publisher.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #7099 on: 25/03/2010 20:55:28 »

I've decided I'm going to be preparing a database that relates symptoms on a time basis to the initiating stimulus, orgasm. Initially the idea is to design and produce a useful database to be able to collect fresh information and be able to view it in graphic form later.

I've found that with the brain fog, I quickly forget the details and timing of the relationships. If it can be caught in the moment, and later seen in visual form, it's possible that better perpective can be appreciated relating to cause and effect.

I hope to eventually include other influencing factors like food consumtion, excersize, etc. etc.

At first it will be a local database, until I can develop a basic WEB interface. I'll design it to accommodate many individuals. I hope that as it develops, you all can participate in its design.

Meantime, I can take contributions now as to elements that the database should/could have.

For any techies, I'll be using MS SQL and a basic .ASP interface, that's the platform that I've got on hand.


Congratulations, daveman. This sounds teriffic!