Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #750 on: 26/06/2008 20:01:41 »
Here's the note I just sent to Dr William Timmins at Bio Health Diagnostics:

Dear Dr. Timmins--I'm writing to you regarding a forum that I've been part of on the issue of POIS (post orgasmic illness
syndrome). This is syndrome that seems to be more common in men, though there are also women (like me) who have it.
POIS is characterized by lingering exhaustion, brain fog, and flu-like symptoms that occur after orgasm and last up to 2
weeks. We are looking for someone to investigate this syndrome, and to help us identify the cause and find a cure. Can you
please help us? Most of us have been dismissed and disregarded by the doctors we've attempted to get help from. We need
to find a health prof. with an open mind and heart to help us solve the puzzle of this confounding exhausting syndrome.
The forum link and discussion is below.        thanks

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Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #751 on: 27/06/2008 02:58:25 »
pyropeach: there definitely is hope for you to "grow out of this".

That's an important point; best to be confident that whatever underlying combination of processes are causing POIS (which is itself just a transient process) will eventually cease. Being optimistic and anticipating life free from POIS is definitely an option we all have.

Also, the existence of a collaborating group, the internet, modern medical techniques, etc, dramatically improves the probability of asking the right questions and eventually finding effective treatments. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to remain hopeful.
Counterpoints' POIS research questionaire : http://pois.olympe-network.com/

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Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #752 on: 27/06/2008 05:14:54 »
There have been cases of complete POIS recovery.  Unfortunately, once someone recovers they probably don't feel compelled to help others (anyone who recovers has to promise to let us know all about it! :) ).

...  In fact, this last year I was close to 100% recovery.  I still no longer suffer from brain fog (on most occasions), and I know how to remedy that symptom in the case that I do.  The other symptoms have returned somewhat -- I would describe them as a feeling of being in great withdrawal -- but they are also improving.

Counterpoints: I'm pretty sure I'd remember if I had read about cases of complete recovery; are you assuming that these 100% recovery cases exist based on your own experience of near 100% recovery?

If so then intuitively I might agree, because there are times when my symptoms seem almost negligible. But from time to time I get clobbered badly for about a week. So I consider myself at risk and try to minimize the risk of a rogue episode impacting on 'normal' life.

I will consider myself 100% recovered when I know that having an orgasm has not, at any time in the previous few months (perhaps more like 6 to 12 months), resulted in any degree of brain fog, or persistant myalgia, dizziness, fatigue etc.

With all due respect to the technique you discovered for treating brain fog, I don't consider you to be free from POIS, and I doubt you are free from risk of a relapse. I think your technique could be an important clue to what intiates and sustains POIS. As you say;

The Orgasm Cure
...
If anything, perhaps this 'good orgasm' effect will help us learn more about the underlying cause of this problem: how could the *severe* symptoms that follow one orgasm be alleviated by a subsequent orgasm?

Also, I promise to post here if I find out about causes and/or a cure (or potential cure). I can't see myself leaving people to endure the debilitating effects of POIS unnecessarily.

good luck  [:)]
Counterpoints' POIS research questionaire : http://pois.olympe-network.com/

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #753 on: 27/06/2008 05:52:00 »
One thing I am absolutely secure, when I have an orgasm I feel almost inmediately that something weird happens in my stomach. I feel like my organism whants to sweep stomach contents to intestine, and that get manifested with fatigue and bad mood. I think that may be some substance poured inside by the orgasm mechanism produce this effect. The process I described it last few days and it is acompanied by other common Pois symthoms that I think are result of that process. And not necessarly having diarrea, it is not my case, I start to get very constipated, wich it helps to get worse others symthomps, like to much fatigue, headaches, swollen nose, greasy nose, sweats, get hungry, specially need for sugar foods somethimes or big meals, little of acne, hard hair hard to comb, among many others.
I told you i feel nothing in my stomach after orgasm but this is false. In fact i'm always hungry after. I found something perhaps related to what you've said . I have a book (not scientific) about health where they say that sexual abstinence is necessary for people with "weak sympathetic nerves". These nerves are linked with orgasm, adrenals, stomach and many others parts of the body. Possibly the hormone ghrelin play a role (depletion) in the stomach after orgasm . Additionnaly this hormone has an action on the brain. (hypophysis).

Ghrelin
Filed under: Peptide Hormones — admin @ 12:14 pm
Ghrelin is a hormone produced in the human body. It is produced and secreted by the P/D1 cells lining the fundus of the stomach. Ghrelin is classified as a peptide hormone.
Secretion and Production

Ghrelin is produced and secreted by the P/D1 cells lining the fundus of the stomach. The fundus of the stomach is responsible for stimulating appetite, and ghrelin seems to have a role in appetite control. In fact, ghrelin levels are higher in individuals of average weight than in obese individuals. Additionally, ghrelin stimulates the secretion of somatotropin from the anterior pituitary gland.
Pharmacological Uses

Ghrelin was first discovered in 1999. While a synthetic human form of ghrelin is not yet available, it is being researched, and its effects are being tested. Some of the potential medical uses of a ghrelin drug include obesity treatment and use as substitute for somatropin, the synthetic form of somatotropin. Additionally, some studies have shown that ghrelin may have some effect on learning and memory.
 

I was telling you to masticate food because i saw in a medical book that it's good for acne. Also when i do this I feel my mind is more clear.

Again, my english is not very good because i'm french, i'm not always sure if i say the right thing. Sorry for that. I like this forum more than the french that's why i'm here .
« Last Edit: 27/06/2008 13:23:05 by martin88 »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #754 on: 27/06/2008 06:04:42 »
Here's the note I just sent to Dr William Timmins at Bio Health Diagnostics:
Thanks Girlwind, I hope we'll have an answer, good or bad.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #755 on: 27/06/2008 07:10:29 »
Counterpoints: I'm pretty sure I'd remember if I had read about cases of complete recovery; are you assuming that these 100% recovery cases exist based on your own experience of near 100% recovery?

If so then intuitively I might agree, because there are times when my symptoms seem almost negligible. But from time to time I get clobbered badly for about a week. So I consider myself at risk and try to minimize the risk of a rogue episode impacting on 'normal' life.

I will consider myself 100% recovered when I know that having an orgasm has not, at any time in the previous few months (perhaps more like 6 to 12 months), resulted in any degree of brain fog, or persistant myalgia, dizziness, fatigue etc.

sparx, there have been cases of 100% recovery.  You will see references to this if you read this thread from the beginning again.  Someone (with POIS) was given Zoloft for depression.  Supposedly it did not cure the depression, but there was a 100% recovery from POIS.  Perhaps that is not a 'cure', but it is a 100% treatment, in any case, for that person.   There may have also been a case where someone used Wellbutrin and recovered from POIS.  (This would make sense if POIS were primarily caused by dopamine depletion). 

It's also important to note that everyone's 'POIS' seems a little bit different.  So treatment that works for one of us, may not work for the rest.  Obviously there is a good chance it will help though.


There was a 12 month period of time, where I was effectively OK.  There would be the occasional relapse (e.g. POIS for 1 day, once a month in this period), but I was at least 90% better. 



Demografx: Physical fatigue is not a problem for me post-orgasm.  Of course, I get somewhat sleepy and my muscles relax, but I think it is within the range of 'normal'.  Mental fatigue is a problem, though.  The "extreme withdrawal" feeling (anxiety, difficulty focusing, etc) together with "brain fog" is by far the worst aspect of POIS for me.
« Last Edit: 27/06/2008 07:31:23 by Counterpoints »

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Offline solution

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #756 on: 27/06/2008 16:25:40 »
Sparx, martin88. I will read about ghrelin, I think is very interesting.

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Offline solution

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #757 on: 27/06/2008 16:29:17 »
...This study demonstrates the acute effect of cigarette smoking on plasma concentrations of the novel orexigenic hormone ghrelin. The most interesting finding of this study was the unexpected increase in ghrelin concentrations shortly after smoking. The ...

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #758 on: 27/06/2008 18:38:02 »
Hey guys!  Guess what!  I got a response from the people at the Bio Health Diagnostics Lab. Here it is. [;D] [;D]

"This is a new one for us. Dr. (William) Timmins is no longer available for these matters, but I will be asking around my top clients to see if
anyone has ideas. Follow up with me in a week or so."    (Bryan Timmins)

 
By "top clients" he means health care professionals who use his laboratory services. Hopefully there is someone in that clientele pool that cares
enough to want to help us figure this out. Let's keep our fingers crossed!
 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #759 on: 27/06/2008 19:10:33 »
Hey guys!  Guess what!  I got a response from the people at the Bio Health Diagnostics Lab. Here it is. [;D] [;D]

"This is a new one for us. Dr. (William) Timmins is no longer available for these matters, but I will be asking around my top clients to see if
anyone has ideas. Follow up with me in a week or so."    (Bryan Timmins)

 
By "top clients" he means health care professionals who use his laboratory services. Hopefully there is someone in that clientele pool that cares
enough to want to help us figure this out. Let's keep our fingers crossed!
 

TERRIFIC, GIRLWIND! See? Your great spirit shines through!!!
Nice job!!!
« Last Edit: 27/06/2008 19:21:08 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #760 on: 27/06/2008 19:17:17 »
THINKING OF YOU ALL

OK, I've been avoiding you-know-what for a loooong time, but about 1/2 hour ago I did you-know-what [;D] , so......now I have mini-POIS (75% cured with Levitra). And I just thought to myself, "you know, it's easier now that I have a group of fellow (and female) POIS-sufferers" And it is! Thanks for being here, crowd! Those were lonely decades fighting POIS alone, and after decades of doctors' discouragement, convinced I was probably the only one in the world to have POIS! (I didn't even think there would ever be a name for this stupid malady, except maybe stark-raving-madness/lunacy [;D] )

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #761 on: 27/06/2008 20:04:35 »
AFTER A HOT SHOWER...

A hot shower really helps my POIS! But how long can we stay in the shower? [;D]

It's been an hour-and-a-half since POIS onset, and guess what? I feel 90% + cured! I'll let you know if this holds up for the rest of the day, but if it does, my suspicion is that I held off ejac for 2 to 3 months! That's probably why. As some of you have indicated, the reverse is true: if we have multiple ejac episodes in a few days, POIS can get really bad (in my case disastrous!!)

Keep in mind Levitra can be dangerous for those without ED. Work VERY closely under a doctor's supervision.

And if we find an endocrinologist, perhaps s/he can unravel the SPECIFIC PARTS of Levitra that make it work (for me)and then see if it can work for others.

Have a great weekend everybody!
« Last Edit: 28/06/2008 19:25:40 by demografx »

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Offline solution

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #762 on: 28/06/2008 00:45:45 »
congrats girlwind!!!

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #763 on: 28/06/2008 09:07:16 »
If anybody is interested i found a connection between asexuality and high prolactin.

On a Dutch site "http://www.lydiavanderweide.nl/viva/artikel.php?pArt=017" i found out:

"Wanneer bij mannen of vrouwen het lichaam bijvoorbeeld veel te veel prolactine produceert - het hormoon dat bij vrouwen wordt afgescheiden die borstvoeding geven - zijn zij op geen enkele manier te prikkelen en ervaren geen zin of lust. Dit hormoon zet de sexuele thermostaat namelijk op nul."

Wich translates as:

"When the body of men and women produces to much prolactine - The hormone that is excrated by women who breast feed - they are in no way susceptible to libido and they have no interest in sex. This hormone sets the sexual termostate to 0."

Given the fact that men are known to masturbate on average every 3 days. And the people here can often go without sex to up to a month without major problems. This might be an indication of high prolactin.

Of high prolactin, and acompanying low dopamine, it is known to cause symptoms similar to the once described on this forum and here:
http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain

Which might be an indication that post orgasmic symptoms are a form of asexuality. The body does not want sex and if you do it anyway it reacts badly.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #764 on: 28/06/2008 19:19:21 »
POIS DAY ONE

Yesterday was "release-day" - with Levitra 10mg for my ED - and today........SYMPTOM FREE! In the past I would have had 3+ days of agony/torture aka POIS symptoms.

I am hopeful that some further research by outsiders with our group here can find the POIS-affecting-mechanism at work so that Levitra could be used SAFELY for those without ED.

In my opinion, Levitra has a potential for danger for those without ED. And even with ED, there have been reported some serious side effects. I just happen to be lucky. And also legitimately needing it.

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Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #765 on: 28/06/2008 22:12:13 »
sparx, there have been cases of 100% recovery.  You will see references to this if you read this thread from the beginning again.

Someone (with POIS) was given Zoloft for depression.  Supposedly it did not cure the depression, but there was a 100% recovery from POIS.

Perhaps that is not a 'cure', but it is a 100% treatment, in any case, for that person.   There may have also been a case where someone used Wellbutrin and recovered from POIS.  (This would make sense if POIS were primarily caused by dopamine depletion).

Thanks Counterpoint; I forgot about this case (here's link for others to review. It would be great to know if this person is still free from POIS after 10 months (great!! if he is)

B_Jim:   Any chance of contacting him for an update?

I'm seriously considering Wellbutrin (Zyban) to see if  its effects on  it can clear up POIS brain fog. Just a little hesitant though, because the possible side-effects look a bit scary and it would have to happen in a systematic way over several weeks to really understand its efficacy (meaning also, that if it doesn't work or takes time to kick in I could be fogged for weeks - not an appealing thought).
« Last Edit: 29/06/2008 12:39:46 by sparx »
Counterpoints' POIS research questionaire : http://pois.olympe-network.com/

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #766 on: 28/06/2008 22:25:58 »
I'm seriously considering Wellbutrin (Zyban) to see if its effects on POIS brain fog. Just a little hesitant though, because the possible side-effects look a bit scary and it would have to happen in a systematic way over several weeks to really understand its efficacy (meaning also, that if it doesn't work or takes time to kick in I could be fogged for weeks - not an appealing thought).

I wouldn't worry about brain-fog caused by Wellbutrin (bupropion).  I would recommend starting at 150 mg/day using an extended-release tablet; this is a relatively low dosage, but you would still likely notice the effects.  XR (also known as XL) is longer lasting than "sustained release", and so you would only need to take it once a day (in the morning), and you would avoid feeling as though you were coming on and off the drug.   You will feel quite energetic and somewhat anxious for the first few days, and may have trouble sleeping the first few nights.  I would recommend persisting until these side effects subside, which should happen relatively quickly.  In the meantime, they would help you get some work done.  Normally, you would begin to experience positive side effects after about 3 weeks.

Demografx: I don't see why Levitra would be more or less dangerous depending on whether the person taking it had ED?
« Last Edit: 28/06/2008 22:28:00 by Counterpoints »

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #767 on: 29/06/2008 15:28:22 »
If anybody is interested i found a connection between asexuality and high prolactin.

On a Dutch site "http://www.lydiavanderweide.nl/viva/artikel.php?pArt=017" i found out:

"Wanneer bij mannen of vrouwen het lichaam bijvoorbeeld veel te veel prolactine produceert - het hormoon dat bij vrouwen wordt afgescheiden die borstvoeding geven - zijn zij op geen enkele manier te prikkelen en ervaren geen zin of lust. Dit hormoon zet de sexuele thermostaat namelijk op nul."

Wich translates as:

"When the body of men and women produces to much prolactine - The hormone that is excrated by women who breast feed - they are in no way susceptible to libido and they have no interest in sex. This hormone sets the sexual termostate to 0."

Given the fact that men are known to masturbate on average every 3 days. And the people here can often go without sex to up to a month without major problems. This might be an indication of high prolactin.

Of high prolactin, and acompanying low dopamine, it is known to cause symptoms similar to the once described on this forum and here:
http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain

Which might be an indication that post orgasmic symptoms are a form of asexuality. The body does not want sex and if you do it anyway it reacts badly.

There is definetly a connection between high prolactin levels and slow refractory times especially with my old prolactin hormone test at the very top of the range.This was when my POIS symptoms was at its worst.

I can not remember the range of the prolactin test exactly but it was somewhere in the region of 2-17 and my prolactin levels at the time was 16. Life extension recommends an optimal healthy range between 2-4 so 16 is way off.

This was 3-4 days after any ejaculation so imagine if it was taking say 12-24 hours after ejaculation when POIS are at its worst or whichever timeframe POIS symptoms is at its worst depending on the individual.

I plan too take furthur prolactin and hormone tests in the future but this time 12-24 hours after ejaculation too see which hormones are being imbalanced after ejaculating. I also plan too take a full metabolic analysis and neurotransmitter urine tests post ejaculation and these tests should show me also what neurotransmitters are depleting after ejaculating and also what vitamins, minerals and nutrients are depleting too after ejaculating.

DHEA PLEASE READ :

If ones Dhea levels are already optimal which can be checked via blood/saliva test then taking futhur Dhea
orally will convert too estrogen which can lead too unwanted "feminine" characteristics in men.

Best way too take Dhea without estrogen conversion is
transdermally or sublingually.


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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #768 on: 29/06/2008 15:40:27 »

Interesting read on page 16 from a poster Dave23:


http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.375

He seems too have just about cured his POIS by getting his hormone
levels in the optimal ranges which iam trying too do also.

Although he doesnt seem too have posted in a while so i will pm him and
see  how hes doing with his POIS, has anyone had any direct pms with this
poster?



« Last Edit: 29/06/2008 16:48:10 by Michael8028 »

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #769 on: 29/06/2008 15:47:53 »
my POIS is similar to things I do that deplete my adrenaline, like playing soccer or rugby for more than 2 hours, I get very tired and sometimes nauseas, dehydrated. if anyone plays tennis or squash or does very physical extreme sport for more than 3 hours, tell us if your feelin the day afterwards is similar to POIS. I guess if you are fit, then your POIS is also not as bad as the days when you were unfit? With fit I mean trained to endure long physical activity, and good lung pump to muscular and nervous system.

A good indication may be: does POIS make your legs and arms stiff. Like you feel you cannot stretch them easily?

Yes after 2-3 hours of exercise/sports the next morning will feel like a POIS morning, very similar although not as intense.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #770 on: 30/06/2008 02:23:11 »

Demografx: I don't see why Levitra would be more or less dangerous depending on whether the person taking it had ED?


Counterpoints, as I mentioned way back in an earlier post, I googled Levitra and saw a post that said to be careful because of the way Levitra works with blood flow to the heart for those without ED. This is admittedly very sketchy and anecdotal as a source, but it concerned me enough to repeat it. I said in the post you responded to that it "may"...perhaps I should leave it alone? I just get very concerned with medical advice being tossed around here quite loosely. Remember, many of us are desperate and will try anything!

But I hope you're right! It would be wonderful if Levitra could work for everyone...SAFELY. (it's too easy to get Levitra on the internet and mail order). There is also some question of vision loss with insufficient blood going to the optic nerve. Loss of vision concern is written on my Rx. But that too is controversial as to cause and effect.

So from now on, I'll just say, "consult your physician." Fair enough?
« Last Edit: 30/06/2008 02:30:55 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #771 on: 30/06/2008 03:29:52 »
Michael,
I'd like to know if you have other sources mentionning differents ranges than conventionals for hormones. Also, is there a place where i can read about the top 5 labs ? I believe that lack of testosterone or problem with testosterone utilization is involved in pois but i'm concerned about side effects of T replacement. For example testicles shrinking (at least it's hormone cream savings !). What can you do for this ? http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=173268

A solution can be to take clomid to restart your own production of T but the whole thing seems to me to be a risk. http://www.saanabolicreview.co.za/clomid.html
Please keep us informed about the planned tests you mention in your post, i'll apreciate.

In the link posted by Sparx http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/36/robinson.html
it's written : "after sexual satiation there is a drastic reduction in androgen receptor density". Does someone know more about these androgens receptors ? This theory can explain why only the first shot of T was effective for Demografx. (or placebo you're right Demografx !)
I know about 5 alpha-reductase deficiency which is causing lack of DHT (an androgen responsible for secondary sexual characteristics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-alpha_reductase
Perhaps it's the androgen receptor mentionned above.
« Last Edit: 30/06/2008 06:48:39 by martin88 »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #772 on: 30/06/2008 03:32:06 »
Demo: I totally understand your concern.  I was just curious why the dangers of Levitra would be any different depending on whether the person had ED.  You're probably right about 'blindness' effects, etc, being kind of sketchy and anecdotal.  I agree consulting a physician is a good idea before trying new meds.


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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #773 on: 30/06/2008 03:58:16 »
Finally I found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_receptor but i still need a connection between orgasm and reduction in androgen receptor density. Thanks.

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #774 on: 30/06/2008 17:18:46 »

Martin,

I dont have any other sources of other optimal hormone
ranges at the moment from Anti Aging practitioners. 

Most Anti Aging doctors do not
post their recommended idea range of hormones online
and usually only provide these info's to their patients
through direct appointments.

The source I provided from Lef is actually from a highly
regarding Anti Aging practitioner in Philip Lee Miller, MD.

He is the founder and medical director of the Los Gatos
Longevity Institute in Los Gatos, CA. His practice is dedicated
to antiaging medicine focusing on bio-identical natural hormone
replacement, nutritional medicine, complex lipid disorders, and
stress management. He is a diplomate of the American Board on
Anti-Aging Medicine.

You can see his ranges also in his LEF recommended book Life Extension Revolution
by P. Miller, MD.

Here is Lef's medical advisory board:

http://www.lef.org/featured-articles/medadv.htm



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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #775 on: 30/06/2008 17:35:02 »


Testosterone may or may not be connected too POIS depending
on the individual. It would be best too test the hormones
first before coming too the conclusion.

Modern effective Anti Aging doctors will usually prescribe
HCG too prevent the testicles from shrinking.

HCG (Chorionic Gonadotropin)

HCG acts like LH (Luteinizing Hormone).

LH has several actions, such as:
1. It stimulates testosterone production from the testes
2. It stimulates the production of aromatase enzyme
3. It stimulates the production of Cytochrome P450sc enzyme

Im on 125iu E2d but I was on 250iu but decreased as my
Progesterone levels were sky high as provided in the
previous page.

Taking above 500ius of HCG long term can desensitize the
LH receptors. This was posted by a highly regarded Anti Aging
doctor in Dr John Crisler on the forums of Anabolicminds.com.

Nowadays TRT specialists will recommend T shots E2D r E3D
too control Estrogen conversion. In the past they would
do T Shots every Week or every fortnight.

This would cause most patients too have alot of Estrogen
problems due too the very high dose of T taking in one shot.
Plus up and down effects of mental, emotional and physical
wellbeing.

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #776 on: 30/06/2008 17:40:33 »

Yes your right about Clomid.

Most people who have used Clomid experience emotional problems.
It is a very common side effect of Clomid.

Although I have read in one case where someone had great success
with Clomid and Nolvadex in restarting their natural testosterone
functions here :

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/men-s-health-forum/day-one-attempting-restart-134240826.html

I'll definetly post my hormone, metabolic and neurotransmitter test results here
once they have been done.

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #777 on: 30/06/2008 17:52:19 »
Michael,
I'd like to know if you have other sources mentionning differents ranges than conventionals for hormones. Also, is there a place where i can read about the top 5 labs ? I believe that lack of testosterone or problem with testosterone utilization is involved in pois but i'm concerned about side effects of T replacement. For example testicles shrinking (at least it's hormone cream savings !). What can you do for this ? http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=173268

A solution can be to take clomid to restart your own production of T but the whole thing seems to me to be a risk. http://www.saanabolicreview.co.za/clomid.html
Please keep us informed about the planned tests you mention in your post, i'll apreciate.

In the link posted by Sparx http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/36/robinson.html
it's written : "after sexual satiation there is a drastic reduction in androgen receptor density". Does someone know more about these androgens receptors ? This theory can explain why only the first shot of T was effective for Demografx. (or placebo you're right Demografx !)
I know about 5 alpha-reductase deficiency which is causing lack of DHT (an androgen responsible for secondary sexual characteristics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-alpha_reductase
Perhaps it's the androgen receptor mentionned above.

Yes your right about Dht as it is the main hormone responsible for libido. It is actually known as the alpha male hormone out of the hormone family.

I actually use Dht gel due too low Dht levels and high Progesterone levels. Progesterone lowers Dht and causes no/low libido and using Dht lowers Progesterone levels.

Although there has been some studies that suggest Dht can cause
prostate problems but there has also been some studies that Dht
isnt the culprit and that high Estrogens or imbalanced estrogen
ratios are the culprit for prostate problems.

So far with my own experience imbalanced Estrogens are at fault for
prostate problems.

High Dht levels can cause balding and if ones families are prone too balding then most likely mixed with high Dht levels, balding will occur.

Martin have you had any hormone tests done ?



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Offline Alan McDougall

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #778 on: 30/06/2008 17:55:16 »
John,

The others have given you amazing help. What I  would respectfully like to ask, is there no guilt involved such as a very strict religious upbringing which sort of puts sex in the realm of something unpleasant and ugly instead of beautiful like it really is between those that love each other?
Regards

Alan
« Last Edit: 30/06/2008 17:56:52 by Alan McDougall »
The Truth remains the Truth regardless of our beliefs or opinions the Truth is always the Truth even if we know it or do not know it (The Truth remains the Truth)

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #779 on: 30/06/2008 18:09:00 »
I forgot too add that Low testosterone levels isnt just caused by
hypogonadism where the testes no longer produce testosterone.

Low functioning of the Adrenal glands and Thyroids can
lower Testosterone levels too.

Usually when one fixes their Adrenal glands and Thyroids,
Testosterone levels increase too. I made this mistake
in not fixing my Adrenals and Thyroids and going straight
too T Shots.

Also high Estrogens, high Prolactin, high Cortisol, high SHBG, low Thyroids,
and high Insulin levels can lower Testosterone too. There is probably
a few others but thats all I can think off right now.

« Last Edit: 30/06/2008 18:12:08 by Michael8028 »

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #780 on: 30/06/2008 18:44:31 »
Michael,
I'd like to know if you have other sources mentionning differents ranges than conventionals for hormones. Also, is there a place where i can read about the top 5 labs ? I believe that lack of testosterone or problem with testosterone utilization is involved in pois but i'm concerned about side effects of T replacement. For example testicles shrinking (at least it's hormone cream savings !). What can you do for this ? http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=173268

A solution can be to take clomid to restart your own production of T but the whole thing seems to me to be a risk. http://www.saanabolicreview.co.za/clomid.html
Please keep us informed about the planned tests you mention in your post, i'll apreciate.

In the link posted by Sparx http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/36/robinson.html
it's written : "after sexual satiation there is a drastic reduction in androgen receptor density". Does someone know more about these androgens receptors ? This theory can explain why only the first shot of T was effective for Demografx. (or placebo you're right Demografx !)
I know about 5 alpha-reductase deficiency which is causing lack of DHT (an androgen responsible for secondary sexual characteristics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-alpha_reductase
Perhaps it's the androgen receptor mentionned above.

Interesting about the Androgen receptors decreasing post ejaculation as there is a study here as furthur proof:

 Pharmacological and physiological aspects of sexual exhaustion in male rats (Drastic reduction in androgen receptor density in specific regions of the brain (mpoa) following sexual activity. May take up to 7 days to recover from sexual activity, perhaps due to androgen receptor decrease after orgasm for 4-7 days, which decreases effects of testosterone.)

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118874269/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

It also mentions a change in Neurotransmitters during the post ejaculation period.


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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #781 on: 30/06/2008 18:47:16 »
Heres a study proven that taking L-Carnitine L-Tartrate 2 grams a day
can upregulate Androgen Receptors :

-------------------------------------------------------------

1: Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006 Jul;38(7):1288-96. Links
Erratum in:
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006 Oct;38(10):1861.
Androgenic responses to resistance exercise: effects of feeding and L-carnitine.
Kraemer WJ, Spiering BA, Volek JS, Ratamess NA, Sharman MJ, Rubin MR, French DN, Silvestre R, Hatfield DL, Van Heest JL, Vingren JL, Judelson DA, Deschenes MR, Maresh CM.
Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT 06269-1110, USA. William.Kraemer@uconn.edu

PURPOSE: The purpose of this investigation was to determine the effects of 3 wk of L-carnitine L-tartrate (LCLT) supplementation and post-resistance-exercise (RE) feeding on hormonal and androgen receptor (AR) responses. METHODS: Ten resistance-trained men (mean+/-SD: age, 22+/-1 yr; mass, 86.3+/-15.3 kg; height, 181+/-11 cm) supplemented with LCLT (equivalent to 2 g of L-carnitine per day) or placebo (PL) for 21 d, provided muscle biopsies for AR determinations, then performed two RE protocols: one followed by water intake, and one followed by feeding (8 kcal.kg body mass, consisting of 56% carbohydrate, 16% protein, and 28% fat). RE protocols were randomized and included serial blood draws and a 1-h post-RE biopsy. After a 7-d washout period, subjects crossed over, and all experimental procedures were repeated. RESULTS: LCLT supplementation upregulated (P<0.05) preexercise AR content compared with PL (12.9+/-5.9 vs 11.2+/-4.0 au, respectively). RE increased (P<0.05) AR content compared with pre-RE values in the PL trial only. Post-RE feeding significantly increased AR content compared with baseline and water trials for both LCLT and PL. Serum total testosterone concentrations were suppressed (P<0.05) during feeding trials with respect to corresponding water and pre-RE values. Luteinizing hormone demonstrated subtle, yet significant changes in response to feeding and LCLT. CONCLUSION: In summary, these data demonstrated that: 1) feeding after RE increased AR content, which may result in increased testosterone uptake, and thus enhanced luteinizing hormone secretion via feedback mechanisms; and 2) LCLT supplementation upregulated AR content, which may promote recovery from RE.

PMID: 16826026 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

------------------------------------------------------------


I will order some L-Carnitine L-Tartrate and test and find out what else
can upregulate Androgen receptors.
« Last Edit: 30/06/2008 18:48:50 by Michael8028 »

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #782 on: 30/06/2008 19:41:26 »

Not sure if this has been posted but many useful studies
here on Sexual hangovers :

http://www.reuniting.info/science/research/sexual_hangover

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #783 on: 30/06/2008 21:59:43 »
my POIS is similar to things I do that deplete my adrenaline, like playing soccer or rugby for more than 2 hours, I get very tired and sometimes nauseas, dehydrated. if anyone plays tennis or squash or does very physical extreme sport for more than 3 hours, tell us if your feelin the day afterwards is similar to POIS. I guess if you are fit, then your POIS is also not as bad as the days when you were unfit? With fit I mean trained to endure long physical activity, and good lung pump to muscular and nervous system.

A good indication may be: does POIS make your legs and arms stiff. Like you feel you cannot stretch them easily?

Yes after 2-3 hours of exercise/sports the next morning will feel like a POIS morning, very similar although not as intense.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Not only does L-Carnitine L-tartrate been proven too upregulate Androgen receptors but it is Supported For Exercise Recovery: A recent placebo-controlled clinical study conducted at Ball State University in Indiana found that l-carnitine-l-tartrate supplementation
significantly supported physical recovery from high intensity exercise.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

This allows for less tissue damage, decreased production of free radicals and less muscle soreness following exercise.

In a prospective double-blind placebo controlled trial, carnitine supplementation supported training for elite athletes.*

Optimizing Muscle Strength and Recovery with CLT
By David Barr
Through the haze of misinformation clouding the supplement industry, strength athletes are often left wondering if anything will actually help them. Recently, a little known supplement has emerged that can do just that. In this article, we’ll take a look at this product and see how it can help with muscle growth, strength, and recovery.

Before we go any further, you need to know what we’re talking about. The supplement in question is called carnitine-l-tartrate (CLT), and there’s a good chance you’ll be using it for a long time to come. It’s different in both structure and mechanism of action from acetyl-l-carnitine, which is commonly sold as a fat loss supplement. So don’t worry if you’ve tried “carnitine” as an over-hyped “fat burner” and were disappointed by the results.

What does it do? CLT is a unique supplement because it increases the androgen receptor content of tissues. This means that there are more docking sites for our most plentiful anabolic hormone to function. In short, more testosterone/androgens reaching their target = a greater anabolic effect.

This sounds pretty amazing, right? Almost too good to be true, huh? I appreciate such skepticism, and in fact, quite encourage it. However, fortunately we have a growing body of evidence for this one. Better still, this evidence comes from one of the most prestigious exercise labs on the planet, with each study showing the efficacy of this supplement (Kraemer, et al. 2003; Kraemer, et al. 2006; Volek, et al. 2002).

Enter the Anabolic Index Score

So just how effective is CLT? Using the Anabolic Index Score, which objectively measures the anabolic potential of foods and supplements, CLT ranks as one of the most potent products available. When combined with protein pulse feeding, especially after a workout, the impact on muscle growth is great. This combined effect is so powerful because post-training meals also increase androgen receptor content. So you’re really maximizing the effect by combining the two (Kraemer, et al. 2006).

Quick Ttip: For those who are using HRT or other androgen related pharmaceuticals, CLT greatly increases the effectiveness of the cycle. In this situation, you would not only be gaining a pharmaceutically-induced elevation of androgen receptors but also a supplemental elevation.

Anabolism and recovery

We often get so wrapped up in our subculture that words adopt new meanings. Specifically in this case, I’m referring to anabolism (or “anabolic”), which is most commonly used in reference to muscle building, and ultimately, strength. Although this isn’t completely inaccurate for our purposes, it ignores a critical component of anabolism—muscle recovery.

By increasing muscle anabolism, regardless of the means, we’re definitively increasing the rate at which our muscle can recover from the training-induced stress we impose on it. Greater recovery means less down time and increased opportunity to incur the training stresses we seek (i.e. growth and strength). I’m sure you’re probably well aware of this fact, but it never hurts to have an occasional reminder.

To sum things up, by increasing the androgen receptor content of our muscle, CLT will be able to assist with the following critical variables:

* Muscle strength
* Muscle growth
* Muscle recovery
* Magnified effects of androgen use
* Enhanced effects of post-workout meals

CLT is a legal supplement with potentially powerful effects on everything we want that is related to muscle. Better yet, it also has strong potential to improve neural strength and recovery—highly sought after processes that continue to elude us. Considering that we don’t fully understand neural adaptability, there’s much to be covered, which means that we’ll be discussing this in the next article.

Note: I have no stake, financial or otherwise, in any supplement.

References

Kraemer WJ, Volek JS, French DN, Rubin MR, Sharman MJ, Gómez AL, Ratamess NA, Newton RU, Jemiolo B, Craig BW, Häkkinen K (2003) The effects of L-carnitine L-tartrate supplementation on hormonal responses to resistance exercise and recovery. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research 17(3):455–62.

Kraemer WJ, Spiering BA, Volek JS, Ratamess NA, Sharman MJ, Rubin MR, French DN, Silvestre R, Hatfield DL, Van Heest JL, Vingren JL, Judelson DA, Deschenes MR, Maresh CM (2006) Androgenic responses to resistance exercise: effects of feeding and L-carnitine. Medical Science and Sports Exercise 38(7):1288–96.

Volek JS, Kraemer WJ, Rubin MR, Gómez AL, Ratamess NA, Gaynor P (2002) L-Carnitine L-tartrate supplementation favorably affects markers of recovery from exercise stress. American Journal of Physiology: Endocrinology and Metabolism 282(2):E474–82.

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #784 on: 30/06/2008 22:01:26 »
Another study :

The effects of L-carnitine L-tartrate supplementation on hormonal responses to resistance exercise and recovery.
1: J Strength Cond Res. 2003 Aug;17(3):455-62.

Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT 06269, USA. kraemer@uconnvm.uconn.edu

The purpose of this investigation was to examine the influence of L-carnitine L-tartrate (LCLT) supplementation using a balanced, cross-over, placebo-controlled research design on the anabolic hormone response (i.e., testosterone [T], insulin-like growth factor-I, insulin-like growth factor-binding protein-3 [IGFBP-3], and immunofunctional and immunoreactive growth hormone [GHif and GHir]) to acute resistance exercise. Ten healthy, recreationally weight-trained men (mean +/- SD age 23.7 +/- 2.3 years, weight 78.7 +/- 8.5 kg, and height 179.2 +/- 4.6 cm) volunteered and were matched, and after 3 weeks of supplementation (2 g LCLT per day), fasting morning blood samples were obtained on six consecutive days (D1-D6). Subjects performed a squat protocol (5 sets of 15-20 repetitions) on D2. During the squat protocol, blood samples were obtained before exercise and 0, 15, 30, 120, and 180 minutes postexercise. After a 1-week washout period, subjects consumed the other supplement for a 3-week period, and the same experimental protocol was repeated using the exact same procedures. Expected exercise-induced increases in all of the hormones were observed for GHir, GHif, IGFBP-3, and T. Over the recovery period, LCLT reduced the amount of exercise-induced muscle tissue damage, which was assessed via magnetic resonance imaging scans of the thigh. LCLT supplementation significantly (p < 0.05) increased IGFBP-3 concentrations prior to and at 30, 120, and 180 minutes after acute exercise. No other direct effects of LCLT supplementation were observed on the absolute concentrations of the hormones examined, but with more undamaged tissue, a greater number of intact receptors would be available for hormonal interactions. These data support the use of LCLT as a recovery supplement for hypoxic exercise and lend further insights into the hormonal mechanisms that may help to mediate quicker recovery.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #785 on: 01/07/2008 18:47:54 »
Michael, thank you for these posts. You can try differents treatments but you should be careful with your body (specially with hormones), you have only one. I'm not sure if L-Cartinine will be of any help. You can see in my precedents posts (not a lot) the hormone tests i have done.
« Last Edit: 02/07/2008 00:38:41 by martin88 »

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Offline post-chronic

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #786 on: 02/07/2008 17:20:49 »
Hi there! I have been curious about this problem for a long time; I finally found this message board and have been casually working on a response for a while.

I am a 28 year old male who has been diagnosed with PVFS (post-viral fatigue syndrome) or equivalent (CFS, chronic fatigue syndrome), which developed relatively suddenly when I was about 14 years old; “POIS” didn't become a major problem until late teens when CFS became worse, although perhaps existed in mild form until then. I have since been attributing POIS-like symptoms to CFS as a secondary complication, but it could instead be a separate additional condition?

The symptoms that people here describe as POIS are similar to the post-exertional aspect of CFS. However with CFS, any type of significant exertion (physical or cognitive) can cause an exacerbation of symptoms, and abstinence from such exertion doesn't resolve the baseline symptoms. I don't think CFS and POIS are the same illness, but I can vouch for noteworthy similarities. I don't know how common POIS is for people with CFS. For me, even though POIS symptoms and other post-exertional CFS symptoms aren't exactly the same, both have or can cause an increase in myalgia/arthralgia & fatigue as well as cognitive symptoms.

The possibility of POIS being a neuroimmune effect has been discussed at this forum; this is intriguing to me because some researchers suspect that CFS is a neuroimmune disorder or state. Also, the field of “psycho-neuro-endocrino-immunology” may open up a whole new understanding of illnesses which have previously remained “under the radar”, like POIS.

Unless there are serious disturbances relating to psychosocial stress or religious guilt, I doubt that POIS is a psychological problem. Also, I have noticed that some philosophers have viewed sexual activity as seriously draining and unhealthy, but they may have had POIS themselves and therefore incorporated it into their world view; most healthy people don't experience these symptoms even if they are hypersexual (some people may feel sleepy for 10 minutes but then they are OK).

I have typed up more to say later about my experience with POIS and related ideas about what I think it is, but this first message is plenty for a introduction! Regards, "post-chronic".

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #787 on: 02/07/2008 17:33:28 »
Hi there! I have been curious about this problem for a long time; I finally found this message board and have been casually working on a response for a while.

I am a 28 year old male who has been diagnosed with PVFS (post-viral fatigue syndrome) or equivalent (CFS, chronic fatigue syndrome), which developed relatively suddenly when I was about 14 years old; “POIS” didn't become a major problem until late teens when CFS became worse, although perhaps existed in mild form until then. I have since been attributing POIS-like symptoms to CFS as a secondary complication, but it could instead be a separate additional condition?

The symptoms that people here describe as POIS are similar to the post-exertional aspect of CFS. However with CFS, any type of significant exertion (physical or cognitive) can cause an exacerbation of symptoms, and abstinence from such exertion doesn't resolve the baseline symptoms. I don't think CFS and POIS are the same illness, but I can vouch for noteworthy similarities. I don't know how common POIS is for people with CFS. For me, even though POIS symptoms and other post-exertional CFS symptoms aren't exactly the same, both have or can cause an increase in myalgia/arthralgia & fatigue as well as cognitive symptoms.

The possibility of POIS being a neuroimmune effect has been discussed at this forum; this is intriguing to me because some researchers suspect that CFS is a neuroimmune disorder or state. Also, the field of “psycho-neuro-endocrino-immunology” may open up a whole new understanding of illnesses which have previously remained “under the radar”, like POIS.

Unless there are serious disturbances relating to psychosocial stress or religious guilt, I doubt that POIS is a psychological problem. Also, I have noticed that some philosophers have viewed sexual activity as seriously draining and unhealthy, but they may have had POIS themselves and therefore incorporated it into their world view; most healthy people don't experience these symptoms even if they are hypersexual (some people may feel sleepy for 10 minutes but then they are OK).

I have typed up more to say later about my experience with POIS and related ideas about what I think it is, but this first message is plenty for a introduction! Regards, "post-chronic".


My sincere sympathies too you for having too suffer with CFS from such a young age of 14.

I have a good friend who has had CFS for 13 years and diagnosed with it at age 27. Physically he is not too well but his mind is sharp like a razor.

What was your Cortisol and Dhea levels when your were diagnosed?

Ive been diagnosed with Adrenal fatigue too which is the same thing. Its came back recently from my low cortisol readings. Iam supplementing with Medrol too raise it. Isocort didnt work for me and it caused water retention.

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #788 on: 02/07/2008 17:47:35 »
Michael, thank you for these posts. You can try differents treatments but you should be careful with your body (specially with hormones), you have only one. I'm not sure if L-Cartinine will be of any help. You can see in my precedents posts (not a lot) the hormone tests i have done.


-------------------------------------------------

Martin do you still have your cortisol reading from age 23?
Also what kind of test was this? Blood,Saliva, Urine ?

--------------------------------------------------

Saliva is usually more accurate done at home at your leisure.

Blood tests for cortisol readings arent usually accurate due too
things like white coat syndrome, needle etc

This usually spikes cortisol readings very high giving a false
reading. Saliva test is very easy : spit some saliva in a tube
which isnt stressful and doesnt give false readings.

Very high cortisol readings is usually a sign of future adrenal fatigue.

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #789 on: 02/07/2008 18:06:51 »
when i was 23 my cortisol level was too high (pois day 10) . I was taking multivitamin at this time (with C and B5 in it). I have never done any other test after that but perhaps it's still high because i often wake up very early (3am).

When i was 35 i have done a bioavailable testosterone test pois day 15 and the result was 5 (normal range 4 - 15). I wasn't doing sport at all at this time. I wasn't very tired before the test.

2 years later i have done an other one for testosterone, pois day 1, exactly the same test, same hour. I was very tired before the test. Result 8 (normal 4 - 15) .
I was surprised because i red  this study  : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11760788
(about this study my doc say it's not a problem because testosterone stay in the range)
I was playing tennis 2h00/week at this time. Perhaps this could have changed the result . I have never played tennis before in my life, i'm not very sports oriented since pois, however at 26 i was able to run non stop for two hours every day, only with total sexual abstinence and good nutrition. If i had a wet dream i could only run (not easily) 15-20 min which is not a lot with the training i had at this time.

Hope this helps. For me it's only confusion.



Was the test done within 1-2 hours of awakening?

For optimal bio available readings of testosterone aim for
the upper Third 12+

You will feel alot better this way.

What is your relationship like with your doctor ?
Is he open minded enough too check other hormones like
Estrogens, E1,E2,E3, Shbg, Free T3, Insulin, Cortisol, Dht,
Progesterone, Prolactin ?

All these hormones effect testosterone or libido.

I hope you have or can find a good doctor who can check your full
hormone system as this should give some answers on what is going wrong
here.

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #790 on: 02/07/2008 18:18:20 »
Michael, thank you for these posts. You can try differents treatments but you should be careful with your body (specially with hormones), you have only one. I'm not sure if L-Cartinine will be of any help. You can see in my precedents posts (not a lot) the hormone tests i have done.

Thank you for your concern.

Yes I am very careful with my body now and what i put into it.

Before in my teens I would take alot of supplements/herbs/dhea without
doing any research and having blood tests done. It probably caused
my hormone imbalance as I took too much and didnt cycle any of the products.

Now I have saliva and blood tests each month too evaluate my progress.
These tests I pay out my own pocket. They cost me £150-£200 a month depending
on what Iam having done. Too me its totally worth it as I want
my good health back as Iam only 24 and I want too find exactly what is wrong
with scientific proof.

Ive received the L-Carnitine L-Tartrate through the post.

There is no side effects reported on 500mg maybe some slight stomach discomfort
with some sensitive individuals.

However on larger dose it may lead to excess energy, restlessness, perhaps insomnia. Long term side effects of high dose carnitine use are not fully known.

I have adrenal fatigue and my energy levels in the morning and afternoon are low but in the evening it is ok.

I will try 2 grams every day for a week and see how it goes.



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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #791 on: 02/07/2008 19:28:29 »
Welcome post-chronic! I can empathize with your situation, as I've been living with CFS for 30 years, and with POIS
probably as long. It's hard to say when I began having POIS symptoms, because I was so extremely ill for the first 5 years of
CFS (back in the late 70's-early 80's when no one even had a name for "it"), that sex was the LAST thing on my mind. At this
point I'm healthy-er enough to say that it isn't ALWAYS the last thing.  [:)]

In discussing POIS symptoms with others who have CFS, I haven't found a direct correlation between the two. Not every one I
have met who has CFS necessarily has POIS. And strangely enough, a couple women I know actually felt that sex INCREASED
their energy level and made their CFS symptoms better. I haven't yet found another woman who has POIS symptoms, except
for the researcher who posted on this site several pages back. (Though she insists that everyone has POIS to some extent--
which has NOT been my observation.)

In my experience post-exertional CFS symptoms are very similar to POIS symptoms, with both manifesting that over-the-top
level of exhaustion and myalgia. But the POIS symptoms have a greater level of brain fog/fatigue, and a greater level of what
I call the "hormonal weirdness" (depression, irritability, moodiness, anxiety symptoms, etc). Also, I have definitely noticed that
when my CFS is worse, then POIS is a lot more noticeable... and my sexual libido is a lot less available. During the times when
my CFS is better, my libido comes up and POIS is much more minimal. Keeping my adrenals healthy, (with supplements, herbs
and regular meals), getting 8-9 hours sleep/night, managing stress effectively and avoiding over-exertion on all levels have
been key in my recovery process. So I'm more inclined to see the POIS problem as an endocrine issue, rather than a neurological
one. But of course, it's all one body, divisible only by theories.


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #792 on: 02/07/2008 22:34:43 »

...there have been cases of 100% recovery.  You will see references to this if you read this thread from the beginning again.  Someone (with POIS) was given Zoloft for depression.  Supposedly it did not cure the depression, but there was a 100% recovery from POIS.


Counterpoints, unfortunately this 100% recovery via Zoloft was not confirmed. The poster may have more info for you by PM. Thanks.
« Last Edit: 02/07/2008 22:36:55 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #793 on: 02/07/2008 22:39:31 »
WELCOME TO ALL THE NEW PEOPLE

I continue to be astounded by the incredible contributions of everyone, including the new people here at the POIS Forum! Thank you all!

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Offline neilep

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #794 on: 03/07/2008 16:19:49 »
I suggest all those with questions on this topic to visit(LINK REMOVED !)



What has this got to do with this awful condition ?

I will be deleting this post soon and we do not want to turn this thread into a religious debate...not that I have a problem with peoples faiths...but this is a medical thread not a religious one !
« Last Edit: 04/07/2008 22:37:59 by neilep »
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #795 on: 03/07/2008 17:35:45 »
"I continue to be astounded by the incredible contributions of everyone, including the new people here at the POIS Forum!"

Hey demografx--Me too! I think we're on to something.

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Offline neilep

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #796 on: 03/07/2008 18:13:15 »
WELCOME TO ALL THE NEW PEOPLE

I continue to be astounded by the incredible contributions of everyone, including the new people here at the POIS Forum! Thank you all!

Like Girlwind said.........awesome statement demografx !!
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline hk1979

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #797 on: 03/07/2008 20:52:39 »
I agree with neilep, @Berber this is not a religious forum nor has any religious questions, if you suggest that God has given us this disease and that Celibacy is the only way to get rif of it...  I mean C'mon.

I do agree that POIS might have something to do with guilt, definitely  feelings play a role, and some people did get relief from spirituality.

But all in all, I think it is a shortage or malfunction of chemicals in the body, MEANING THAT WE ARE SEEKING A SCIENTIFIC ANSWER.

I pray to God everyday, and I know that He also wants me to find the answer, that is why I keep looking, but I do not believe that it will just disappear like a miracle, then why would God not cure AIDS as well?

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Offline JimBob

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #798 on: 03/07/2008 23:49:44 »
I have deleted the post on celibacy - religion has nothing to do with medicine, unless a person is a Christian Scientist and even then, is totally inappropriate with respect to a medical condition.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #799 on: 04/07/2008 00:34:29 »
I agree with Neil that the post by @Berber is not directly related to POIS, and that it was deleted appropriately, but I think that "religion has nothing to do with medicine" goes too far. A person's belief is a valuable piece of data that should be considered. I'm sure @Berber meant well, I imagine that he sees our problem as one within a larger context of pornography, which he views (as I do) as contrary to our health, spiritually at least.  Also, I think he means chastity, celibacy is for life so unless you are a priest....