Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #800 on: 04/07/2008 02:58:23 »

I suggest all those with questions on this topic to visit: www.[censored].info


NEIL and JIM/BOB Thank you very much for taking care of this for me, it was my first encounter of the kind and I wasn't sure how to handle it, so I contacted you.

Now I know!
« Last Edit: 04/07/2008 18:51:26 by demografx »

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #801 on: 04/07/2008 05:59:27 »
This thread is getting popular enough that we will have to be wary of people trying to promote their products/website.  I suggest all those who quoted Berber in their message, modify their message to remove the quote, in order to reduce advertising for his site.


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Offline post-chronic

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #802 on: 04/07/2008 06:05:24 »
Thanks everyone for your welcome!

--- Michael8028 ---

When I was diagnosed at 21, the cortisol/DHEA/testosterone were all normal. In fact, “free testosterone” (androgen index) was almost high enough to be out of range. In regards to cortisol, I have since had both a morning-afternoon blood test and an ACTH stimulation blood test, during a bad phase of ill health, and cortisol was still normal. The testosterone was below range, but only because of the temporary malnutrition at the time.

I haven't had a test for a year or two, but last time the hormones were all “normal”. However, the binding globulin is still much higher that it used to be, and therefore free testosterone is only about half of what it was, despite similar healthy levels of total testosterone. I almost had a salivary cortisol test once, but at the time I needed the money for other tests, since it is rather expensive.

I'm not sure how to interpret the view that conventional tests are useless for this. I'm more inclined to believe that while blood levels may be normal, the body simply isn't utilizing the hormones properly and therefore symptoms arise (e.g. due to a lower number of receptors, or lower demand due to deficits in other metabolic processes) and this may help to explain why levels appear normal even if production is below normal.

--- girlwind ---

Thanks for the description of your experiences. I generally agree with your comparison between POIS and post-exertional CFS symptoms in regards to “hormone weirdness”, since overall I have had a similar experience, especially when I had depressive-symptoms years ago. Mood isn't a problem for me anymore, although POIS still decreases stress tolerance and other capacities which can temporarily affect mood somewhat if under a relatively heavy load.

I have found that combining POIS and physical activity has a cumulative detrimental effect that can leave me bedridden with pain and exhaustion. Oddly, I have noticed recently that taking zinc supplements during POIS causes substantial irritability and can noticeably drag my mood down for a day or so. It's difficult to say whether this indicates an immune or endocrine issue, because zinc has both properties.

The fact that women get POIS is a major blow to the semen loss hypothesis. The fluid loss is closely related to sexual experience, so it's no surprise how this has been blamed for symptoms.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #803 on: 04/07/2008 18:49:54 »

This thread is getting popular enough that we will have to be wary of people trying to promote their products/website.  I suggest all those who quoted Berber in their message, modify their message to remove the quote, in order to reduce advertising for his site.


EXCELLENT IDEA! Will do that now on mine.
« Last Edit: 04/07/2008 18:53:41 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #804 on: 04/07/2008 18:58:37 »

The fact that women get POIS is a major blow to the semen loss hypothesis. The fluid loss is closely related to sexual experience, so it's no surprise how this has been blamed for symptoms.


The semen loss hypothesis was destroyed for me when I succeeded in retaining semen at orgasm (Mantak Chia Taoist method) yet still experienced full-blown POIS!

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Offline El Stonio

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #805 on: 04/07/2008 20:47:18 »
Hi all,
I have had very good success with taking more zinc and eliminating soy from my diet.  My fatigue is almost non existent.  Have had a couple orgams with same improved results.  Just passing it along.  You may also want to review how much copper is in your body.  From what I've read this could also contribute to the symptoms described here and experienced by me in the past. 
Stoney

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #806 on: 04/07/2008 23:11:10 »
To update my situation, I had some apparent success last week after I started eating more soluble fiber in my diet. Notably, the mental aspect of my POIS (which is the most severe aspect) was nonexistent. About 5 days later I did feel some muted back tension/pain, similar in feeling to how the condition first manifested itself to me at a young age (but much less intensity).

If there is a connection, I'm not sure what it could be, but I entertained myself googling around reading about the theory of intestinal candidiasis . The concept does sound a little hard to believe, considering that established medicine does not recognize it. But at the same time, this recent apparent success and the apparent success in eliminating dairy from my diet years ago does suggest that my POIS could involve something intestinal. Due to what I read about Candida I have added garlic to my diet, cooked in my food and a clove raw each night, while keeping the soluble fibre thing going as well. I also bought a suppliment that specifically marketed for Candida but I haven't started it yet.

Now, this past week I had an NE Sunday night. Again I have had no mental trouble, but I did come down with a cold on Wednesday, a minor attribute of some of my POIS experiences.

Solution stated his belief that his mental fog diminished after intestinal emptying. Perhaps one attribute of POIS is a disturbance in the intestines that causes our mental fog/ derealism/difficulty thinking. If we could confirm this among more of us we might have something tangible to work with, possibly even leading us to the source of the POIS disturbance. Any thoughts anyone?

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Offline poisONoUS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #807 on: 05/07/2008 01:43:25 »
John, please keep us updated about how you feel now with your soluble fiber/garlic pills test. Out of many in this forum, you are the one who has the closest symptoms to mine I think. Alright, thanks.

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Offline solution

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #808 on: 05/07/2008 04:40:45 »
John and Poisonous, me too.

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Offline solution

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #809 on: 05/07/2008 04:50:16 »
I would name POIS as POIIS POST ORGASMIC INTESTINAL ILLNESS SYNDROME. Don´t you?
« Last Edit: 05/07/2008 04:55:29 by solution »

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Offline solution

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #810 on: 05/07/2008 05:20:40 »
John, I was operated twice for inguinal hernia in the same side, just to add more data to my clinical history.

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Offline post-chronic

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #811 on: 05/07/2008 06:06:17 »
Hi El Stonio ... you said, "I have had very good success with taking more zinc and eliminating soy from my diet." Interesting observation, I have read that soy interferes with zinc absorption.

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Offline post-chronic

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #812 on: 05/07/2008 06:09:57 »
Hi John21 ... Like you said, the idea of intestinal candidiasis (outside strict medical scenarios) isn't accepted by the medical profession, however, *something* intestinal is likely. In general, some diseases and illnesses seem to be accompanied by intestinal disturbances of some sort, perhaps POIS is one of them (for some people). A possibility of "leaky gut" is that the immune system reacts inappropriately to some types of food.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #813 on: 05/07/2008 06:17:52 »
Michael, my cortisol blood test was done in a very good hospital by an endocrinologist doctor, at 2 pm. Free testosterone blood tests were done at 7.30am, 1.30h after awakening also in hospital lab.

The fact that women get POIS is a major blow to the semen loss hypothesis. The fluid loss is closely related to sexual experience, so it's no surprise how this has been blamed for symptoms.

The semen loss hypothesis was destroyed for me when I succeeded in retaining semen at orgasm (Mantak Chia Taoist method) yet still experienced full-blown POIS!
Hi to Post chronic.
Demografx i appreciate all your posts . Stimulating effect on all of us. Well ... on me at least ! With what we have i think we can't be 100% sure if fluid loss is involved or not. I didn't read the book of Mantak Chia but (it's written on other forum) he say himself that with his technic you can ejaculate in the bladder. About women they can also have a loss of fluid. I don't know if it's related but why on 100 cases of POIS do we have only one or two women. This is the big question. Perhaps they are too shy to post here (Hope to stimulate them to write in this forum !). Nicotine from patches cross the skin, semen can go in the blood too.
Here is a study about antidepressant effects of semen :
(Very important to keep using preservatives to protect yourself)
http://biopsychiatry.com/semen.htm
« Last Edit: 05/07/2008 06:36:10 by martin88 »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #814 on: 05/07/2008 17:07:54 »
John 21, poisOnoUS, and solution--My POIS symptoms at this point are not related to intestinal problems or candidiasis. I used
to have horrible digestive problems for about ten years--including intestinal candida overgrowth. I tried to "get rid of" candida,
with rigid diets and many kinds of anti-fungals (both herbal and drugs). But this backfired on me--the anti-fungals worked to
lower the candida levels, but gave me horrible die-off symptoms; then when I stopped the protocols the candida came back on
me. Finally, I discovered (through one of those well timed coincidences) that I needed hydrochloric acid, and began taking Betaine
HCl with every meal. This was truly like a miracle on my digestive tract! I'd had a very difficult time digesting protein prior to this.
My stomach did not produce enough HCl to break it down properly, so it would putrify rather than digest, and I'd end up with a
killer migraine and a long night of vomiting my guts out. I was protein starved, very emaciated and exhausted from the nutritional
deficiencies I'd acquired. After beginning the HCl, my digestion changed over night. From that point on I could eat protein without
a problem. The migraine/puking episodes stopped. I gained weight and kept it on. AND... I no longer had candida. Granted I had
stopped consuming as many starches, like potatoes and grains, and was now eating a lot more protein and vegetables, but I'm
convinced that the HCl was very much the key to solving the candida problem for me. Once my digestion worked better, candida
could not thrive there anymore. However, eliminating candida did not diminish or change the POIS problem. For me the POIS is
more endocrine related, and continues to be so.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #815 on: 05/07/2008 17:34:56 »
Also, about the zinc connection. I had a hair analysis twice in the last couple years, which initially showed an off-the-chart
copper level and a much too low zinc level. According to nutritional researchers, copper displaces zinc in the body, and when
it gets too high and zinc gets too low, one is prone to the following symptoms: a tired body and an overactive mind, anxiety,
migraine headaches, depression, frequent colds, flus and viruses, easy or frequent bruising, specifically capillary fragility.
Some people are more prone to have a copper build up--especially those who have a history of vegetarianism and those with
adrenal fatigue.

To lower copper, they say one has to avoid copper rich foods like chocolate, yeast, mushrooms, soy products, wheat germ
and bran, shellfish and organ meats, and to eat more foods rich in zinc such as chicken, turkey, red meats, game meats,
and pumpkin seeds. Also recommended are vitamins and minerals antagonistic to copper like ZINC, manganese, vitamin C,
B-6, B-3, B-5 (pantothenic acid) and A. However, when some people increase zinc intake, they will begin to dump the excess
copper from their system, which can cause some temporary discomfort and aggravate all the copper toxicity symptoms. That
is what happened to me, so I recommend that anyone who has this problem go slowly. Getting zinc back to a normal level
sounds like a good idea but it's not as simple or easy as it appears. 

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #816 on: 06/07/2008 01:43:24 »
To update my situation, I had some apparent success last week after I started eating more soluble fiber in my diet. Notably, the mental aspect of my POIS (which is the most severe aspect) was nonexistent.

What, specifically, did you start eating?

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #817 on: 06/07/2008 01:49:19 »
A link : answer from MD for fatigue after ejaculation.
Does this doctor believe ejaculation is involved ?
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/urology/messages/32047.html

This make me think about a psychiatrist i saw, he wrote on his paper about me :
"This guy believe he is better with sexual abstinence"
He thought i was crazy !
How can i explain to him next time (the best analogy i found) :
- When you drink alchool, do you feel something ?
- Yes.
- It's not alchool, you believe it but it's all in your head. You're totally wrong man !
Probably it's because your mother told you that alchool was not good for you and now you feel guilty when you drink ...
[;D]
 

« Last Edit: 06/07/2008 02:24:32 by martin88 »

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Offline post-chronic

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #818 on: 06/07/2008 05:01:28 »
Hi martin88.

Ejaculating into the bladder doesn't sound like a convincing way to retain semen, wouldn't it just be urinated out later on? However, you raise an interesting point with skin absorption. I saw that article at newscientist.com ... every man needs a copy of that article framed on their wall for their girlfriend(s)/wife to see! [;)]

When I was younger, I believed that semen-loss was the main culprit, but observations over the years changed my opinion, although obviously I can't rule it out totally.

In regards to your psychiatrist, unfortunately it's unlikely that anything you say will change his opinion. There seems to be a lot of circular reasoning in psychiatry, so depending on his training and beliefs, anything you say that he disagrees with will probably only confirm in his mind that you really are neurotic and/or in denial. Good luck though!

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Offline post-chronic

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #819 on: 06/07/2008 05:13:22 »
Hi girlwind.

I went through a similar saga with hair analysis for CFS, and the main method used to treat the supposed copper overload was intravenous EDTA chelation therapy. However, this actually ended up causing digestive problems (which I still haven't fully recovered from 5 years later). Betaine
HCl was helpful in the initial stage. I later read that EDTA can leech zinc from the body, which made sense with the digestive symptoms, so I was taking zinc for a while.

After a second hair analysis, where copper levels were supposed to be normal while other levels indicated a “hidden” copper imbalance, the treatment was a range of supplements, but after several months I didn't bother with this approach anymore.

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Offline post-chronic

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #820 on: 06/07/2008 05:25:02 »
Has anyone tried fish oil omega-3's for their POIS symptoms? Some formulations have different ratios of EPA and DHA, and may have different effects for different people.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #821 on: 06/07/2008 08:45:22 »
Has anyone tried fish oil omega-3's for their POIS symptoms? Some formulations have different ratios of EPA and DHA, and may have different effects for different people.

Yes, I tried them in 2005.  I took a reasonably high dosage for about 4-5 months (I don't remember exactly what it was, but pretty much an upper limit to anything you'll get over the counter).  At times I felt better and I attributed it to the Omega-3s, but in retrospect, I think they had a negligible effect.  I am better now than I was then, and I am not taking Omega-3s.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #822 on: 06/07/2008 08:47:27 »
I would name POIS as POIIS POST ORGASMIC INTESTINAL ILLNESS SYNDROME. Don´t you?

Absolutely not.  Perhaps even a majority of people here do not suffer from bowel problems.  I don't think the name is particularly important.  Anything that means "unusual symptoms after orgasm" would suffice for the time being.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #823 on: 06/07/2008 12:04:37 »
Counterpoints, for quite a while now I have routinely been eating two slices of Dempsters Oatmeal Brown bread for breakfast, lunch, and bedtime snack. I also routinely ate an apple each day at lunch. To that diet I have added another apple at breakfast, and either another apple at supper or a Quaker Oatmeal-to-Go bar. I can visually see the difference in my stool that this extra soluble fiber makes, it is more of a gel. It is important to know that in my POIS state there were no obvious intestinal problems other than an enhanced "need to go" when it first begins (not what I would call a problem, just an effect), and a very infrequent pinch that I have felt in my appendix area that seemed to rear it's head post sexually (this pinch is relatively new, I have not experienced this most of my POIS life).

Post-Chronic, I have tried Omega 3s in the past with no success.

« Last Edit: 06/07/2008 12:07:18 by John21 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #824 on: 06/07/2008 21:02:54 »

Demografx i appreciate all your posts . Stimulating effect on all of us. Well ... on me at least ! With what we have i think we can't be 100% sure if fluid loss is involved or not. I didn't read the book of Mantak Chia but (it's written on other forum) he say himself that with his technic you can ejaculate in the bladder.


MARTIN88,

I really appreciate your kind words. Thank you! And very interesting what you pointed out, that the Taoist techniques don't prevent semen loss, they just re-direct the semen!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #825 on: 06/07/2008 21:13:24 »
I would name POIS as POIIS POST ORGASMIC INTESTINAL ILLNESS SYNDROME. Don´t you?

Absolutely not.  Perhaps even a majority of people here do not suffer from bowel problems.  I don't think the name is particularly important.  Anything that means "unusual symptoms after orgasm" would suffice for the time being.


Counterpoints, I would add to your POIS definition...lasting DAYS. Any thoughts about that? (I'd also appreciate others' input as well: I think we could use a good working definition of POIS, although I do believe that most of us are on the same page)

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #826 on: 06/07/2008 22:27:50 »
Demografx, I know Jim did something similar, but here is a summary of symptoms others could add to:

Direct POIS symptoms noticed in the days following:

Physical:
no     exhaustion
no     lack of energy
yes    high blood pressure
yes    abdominal pinch
no     headache
no     physical pain
no     diarrhea
no     constipation

Mental:
yes    poor short term memory
yes    difficulty thinking
yes    difficulty communicating, forming thoughts into speech
yes    inexplicable horrible mental feeling

Secondary conditions attributed to POIS
yes    double vision

Indirect problems attributed to stress of POIS
yes    insomnia
yes    stress/anxiety
no      depression


I have bolded my most promenant symptoms.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #827 on: 06/07/2008 23:02:50 »
Demografx, Post-Chronic,
According to what i've read (i'm not a taoist expert) some people (not all, i don't know why) lose the semen in the bladder and probably a big part is lost in urine and that's why pois occur. A hypothesis would be that semen is useful when it stays exactly where it's stored to nourish all the organs around.

In regards to your psychiatrist, unfortunately it's unlikely that anything you say will change his opinion. There seems to be a lot of circular reasoning in psychiatry, so depending on his training and beliefs, anything you say that he disagrees with will probably only confirm in his mind that you really are neurotic and/or in denial. Good luck though!
 
Unfortunately you're right.
About the analogy with alcohol, more seriously, i wanted to describe how i really feel that pois is a physical condition, not psychological at all. I think this is extremely important if we want to be helped by doctors.

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Offline solution

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #828 on: 07/07/2008 00:57:18 »
Martin88 I believe on that hypothesis among others.

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Offline solution

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #829 on: 07/07/2008 01:00:20 »
Counterpoints, still does you feel these statements as usual? If so I wouldn´t dismiss a post orgasmic intestinal illness at all, that doesn´t mean you have to have diarraea or constipation:
...Certain foods can cause similar symptoms.  I have felt quite unusual after several glasses of tropicana orange juice or other sugary foods.  I have measured my blood sugar though on several occasions, and it is normal... counterpoints

« Last Edit: 07/07/2008 01:07:27 by solution »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #830 on: 07/07/2008 01:47:05 »
JOHN21

"inexplicable horrible mental feeling" - - definitely rings a bell with me! I wonder if my fatigue/exhaustion is really just a reaction to the mental symptoms (including the above, plus poor concentration, etc.)in that by "doing nothing" we don't have to face what FEELS LIKE insurmountable challenges in everyday POIS life.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2008 01:56:01 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #831 on: 07/07/2008 01:53:57 »

A hypothesis would be that semen is useful when it stays exactly where it's stored to nourish all the organs around.


I subjectively agree 100%. After 30 years self-observation.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #832 on: 08/07/2008 01:04:11 »
Only 18 years for me... It's amazing how an entire life can really be wasted due to this illness. And with the years i feel that pois is worse because it last longer than before. Please we need someone to find a CURE !   

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Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #833 on: 08/07/2008 01:36:59 »
I hear ya martin88

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #834 on: 09/07/2008 19:39:31 »
For those seriously suffering.

There is a drug called cyproterone that will stop all sexual body functions.

There is a period of three months in which your body needs to adjust. After that you can be sex free.

This is a drug used by transexuals and eunuchs. Also you will need to also take estrogen to avoid hot flashes. So please be adviced that your body may feminize.

However between 3 months of hardship and a litle less beard grow you can save yourself a life of misery.

I am definitely going to try this.
« Last Edit: 09/07/2008 19:45:11 by imre1 »

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #835 on: 09/07/2008 21:42:45 »
Imre1: Sounds like you are in dispair, to consider taking such a drug.  Have you tried being chaste? How about my crazy diet idea?

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Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #836 on: 10/07/2008 00:37:40 »
For those seriously suffering.

There is a drug called cyproterone that will stop all sexual body functions.

There is a period of three months in which your body needs to adjust. After that you can be sex free.

This is a drug used by transexuals and eunuchs. Also you will need to also take estrogen to avoid hot flashes. So please be adviced that your body may feminize.

However between 3 months of hardship and a litle less beard grow you can save yourself a life of misery.

I am definitely going to try this.

imre1:  please give vitex (chasteberry) a try first. Vitex may have several beneficial effects for POIS sufferers. For example, there is some evidence that it has the dual effect of lowering libido and reducing prolactin levels. You need to give it a chance, at least a month. If you can't get vitex where you are then let me know.

cyproterone looks like an extreme and desperate measure for treating POIS that assumes orgasm is the underlying cause. But it may not be the underlying cause. Orgasm may just be a trigger for another underlying condition that cyproterone will not treat. So please take care and get professional advice before trying cyproterone. If you are still taking other medications then it would wise to get professsional advice about taking Vitex as well.

« Last Edit: 10/07/2008 01:11:03 by sparx »
Counterpoints' POIS research questionaire : http://pois.olympe-network.com/

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Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #837 on: 10/07/2008 01:27:38 »
guthrie : if you are still watching this forum, would you please let us know how you trial of Vitex has been going? Thanks!
Counterpoints' POIS research questionaire : http://pois.olympe-network.com/

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #838 on: 10/07/2008 02:05:31 »

So please take care and get professional advice before trying cyproterone. If you are still taking other medications then it would wise to get professsional advice about taking Vitex as well.


I think we ALL need to be very careful about recommending ANY treatment. What's good for me just might be harmful - even fatal - for someone else!

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Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #839 on: 10/07/2008 02:10:03 »
I'm seriously considering Wellbutrin ...
I wouldn't worry about brain-fog caused by Wellbutrin (bupropion).  I would recommend starting at 150 mg/day ...

Counterpoints: Thanks for the guidance on wellbutrin ... I appreciate it.

I mucked up my earlier post; meant to say I wanted to see if it (wellbutrin) could 'clear up' or at least have a rapid positive effect on brain fog on a per-dose basis. However, apart from the possibility of aggravating symptoms (ie. anxiety), I'm not certain that a dopamine reuptake inhibitor on its own (or at all) is a reliable way to implicate dopamine availability as a key factor in brain fog.

I'd like to try something that can offer a reasonable possibility of falsifying the 'dopamine availability' hypothesis in my case. So it seems to me important to try distinguishing between at least two possibilities (out of many, considering the structural separation the four main dopamine pathways, and the distribution of excitatory and inhibitory dopamine receptors in different parts of the brain);
  1) abnormally low dopamine with respect to prolactin levels (lowered dopamine levels can be expected, but how low?)
  2) dopamine levels are normal with respect to prolactin levels (which might imply dopamine uptake is being blocked)

There appear to be three options for manipulating dopamine levels; reuptake inhibitors, agonists, precursor molecules (i.e. Levodopa). Cabergoline (an agonist for inhibitory d2 receptors) has been used to suppress prolactin production but the side effects are a significant risk in my opinion.

At the moment I don't know of any way to estimate dopamine levels in different parts of the brain other than fMRI. So I've got a lot more reading to do and I'm starting to think about a budget just in case I have to pay for imaging. In the meantime I'm going to arrange to have my basal prolactin measured (i.e. while no POIS symptoms), and then at some stage I'll get prolactin levels measured a couple of times during a single episode of POIS. I'll have to find a cooperative doctor (hopefully this won't be the most challenging part of the process).

Also thinking it might be possible to get a prolactin injection (is there such a treatment?) to see if that induces brain fog.

Hope that makes some sense ... not thinking very clearly right now (due to work-related stress more than POIS). Please feel free to critique.
« Last Edit: 10/07/2008 02:21:28 by sparx »
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Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #840 on: 10/07/2008 03:41:31 »
For those seriously suffering.
There is a drug called cyproterone ...

imre1:

May I ask (and please only reply if it is completely OK with you ... no obligation at all here); have you taken any prescription antidepressants as part of your attempts to treat POIS? If so, would you mind listing them or saying whether they were SSRI and/or DARI (dopamine reuptake inhibitors)?

Counterpoints' POIS research questionaire : http://pois.olympe-network.com/

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Offline 2shiny

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #841 on: 10/07/2008 04:07:16 »
I'd like to offer some comments as a woman and as someone with many years' experience with natural remedies and nutritional supplements. Maybe there is something I can offer here that can help.

First of all, I was led to this site by a wonderful newsletter helping people to make sense of the chemical imbalances many of us experience due to frequent orgasm, especially how it plays havoc with our desire to have a long-lasting monogamous relationship and a healthy life. This site may offer some help to you folks here; it's called reuniting.org and I highly recommend it.

When I came here and started to read this thread, I felt so much empathy that tears formed ~ I had no idea this was such a common problem, and the comments from the young men really touched me, possibly because I have a young adult son. It's no wonder it was news to me because of how our society expects men to 'perform' and to keep a stiff upper lip ( among other things  [:-\] )~ who would have the nerve to admit it in public. How very tragic that so many are suffering, and I am so glad someone had the compassion to start this site.

I was never much interested in masturbation; perhaps my Catholic parents caught me early on and with a well timed slap or two, and shook it out of me for awhile. It wasn't until I was a young bride and eventually pregnant, that I occasionally (about once a month) took part in the shower. My husband (unbeknownst to me at the time) was hankering after another woman who had never given him any reason to think he'd have a chance with her, yet he could not forget about her. Because of this, and an interest we both shared in yoga and meditation, he was not very interested in regular (for instance, weekly) intercourse, and perhaps I was also discovering my own sensuality at the time, as well.

When I did masturbate, I'd often feel like I was coming down with something the next day, as if that release had somehow compromised my immune system. If I took Vitamin E (400 to 800IU of ONLY natural source) that day or the day before, it didn't happen ~ I'd feel fine. In fact, over the years, I found that Vitamin E in particular actually encouraged my sexual well-being and libido. I learned this by experimenting with various vitamins, minerals, and herbal tinctures and teas on myself, one at a time. In fact, it has been a hobby all my life to learn about natural aids to health.

I'd read Adelle Davis, Linus Pauling, and similar material in the early 70's and learned about the uses of different supplements. In fact, when I married, I had my husband taking vitamins as well, mostly because he had been such a heavy young smoker, that by the time he was 23, he was smoking four packs a day and coughing up blood (before we met). I felt that he probably needed some help to repair his DNA after he quit, especially if we were ever to have healthy offspring. We did conceive about eight months after I started his vitamin therapy, and our only child is now finishing up her doctorate, so I guess it helped  [;)] Neither of her parents have a degree!
« Last Edit: 10/07/2008 06:07:34 by 2shiny »

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #842 on: 10/07/2008 04:22:03 »
guthrie : if you are still watching this forum, would you please let us know how you trial of Vitex has been going? Thanks!

Hi sparx, to answer your question: I took Vitex for about 6 months.  While I thought it seemed to be having a bit of an effect at first, it ended up being mostly minimal.  So, after a number of months of no further improvement, I stopped taking it.
« Last Edit: 10/07/2008 04:24:09 by Guthrie »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #843 on: 10/07/2008 05:45:41 »

Only 18 years for me... It's amazing how an entire life can really be wasted due to this illness. And with the years i feel that pois is worse because it last longer than before. Please we need someone to find a CURE !   


Martin88, many thanks for your honest voice. It reflects the misery of many people here. We need to get an outside research endocrinologist to look over all our posts and recommend a cure!

But we're closer to a cure now than at any time in POIS history, with this Forum!

For the new people, if you can help by finding someone to assist this POIS Forum, please do!

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Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #844 on: 10/07/2008 07:09:46 »
Hi sparx, to answer your question: I took Vitex for about 6 months.  While I thought it seemed to be having a bit of an effect at first, it ended up being mostly minimal.  So, after a number of months of no further improvement, I stopped taking it.

hi Guthrie,   Sorry to hear Vitex hasn't helped (it looks good on paper but perhaps prolactin has nothing to do with POIS in the end, or Vitex doesn't lower prolactin enough). Would you mind saying how much were you taking and how often?  I've been taking it for about 6 weeks and thought it might be having some effect ... could be placebo! Thanks anyway!

hi imre1, considering Guthrie's experience with Vitex (and my own which is relatively limited so far) my earlier suggestion to you about Vitex could be completely misleading. I wish you the very best of luck with whatever you decide to try.
« Last Edit: 10/07/2008 07:29:44 by sparx »
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Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #845 on: 10/07/2008 09:00:04 »
It seems improbable given all the discussion so far, but I'll ask anyway;

Has anyone here experienced "ejaculation without pleasure" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia ), but still suffer from POIS afterwards?
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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #846 on: 10/07/2008 16:33:40 »
Quote
We need to get an outside research endocrinologist to look over all our posts and recommend a cure!

Hey demografx:   I have put out word to alternative health care providers who are familiar with endocrine testing. I am still waiting... and waiting for
a response. It seems like there's two categories of health care providers I've run into: those who smirk and condescend to the idea of POIS, (screw them!
Yes--pun intended), and those who show some empathy and interest, but have absolutely no experience with it and are rather baffled by it. I am hoping
to appeal to a few of the empathic ones. They are out there, but like needles in the haystack. Maybe we'll get lucky in time, with so many of us persisting
and persevering as a united front. It is SO much more encouraging to have a group of us working on this, rather than just each of singly attempting to
blast open the minds of all those many closed minded medical doctors. Cliche but true: there is power in numbers. Viva la revolution!   [:)]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #847 on: 10/07/2008 19:34:13 »
It seems improbable given all the discussion so far, but I'll ask anyway;

Has anyone here experienced "ejaculation without pleasure" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia ), but still suffer from POIS afterwards?

<raising hand affirmatively> and it was truly disappointing. Another false hope, I somehow thought that non-pleasurable emission might avoid POIS. It was just as bad as any of them. Such an evil malady!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #848 on: 10/07/2008 19:37:54 »
Quote
We need to get an outside research endocrinologist to look over all our posts and recommend a cure!

Hey demografx:   I have put out word to alternative health care providers who are familiar with endocrine testing. I am still waiting... and waiting for
a response. It seems like there's two categories of health care providers I've run into: those who smirk and condescend to the idea of POIS, (screw them!
Yes--pun intended), and those who show some empathy and interest, but have absolutely no experience with it and are rather baffled by it. I am hoping
to appeal to a few of the empathic ones. They are out there, but like needles in the haystack. Maybe we'll get lucky in time, with so many of us persisting
and persevering as a united front. It is SO much more encouraging to have a group of us working on this, rather than just each of singly attempting to
blast open the minds of all those many closed minded medical doctors. Cliche but true: there is power in numbers. Viva la revolution!   [:)]

GO GIRLWIND GO! I gave up on doctors long ago. We are sadly OUTSIDE their textbooks. A rare, rare malady. But it's so exciting to see this tiny POIS population explode right here at this little Forum! I'm so spoiled now, that I don't even want my 75% cure, I prefer abstinence. Yuk!

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #849 on: 11/07/2008 01:59:40 »
imre1: I would use cyproterone only as a very last resort.  PLEASE try pretty much every SSRI and dopamine reuptake inhibitor (for a period of at least 3 months) before moving onto cyproterone.

« Last Edit: 11/07/2008 02:39:09 by Counterpoints »