Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #900 on: 19/07/2008 01:44:18 »
Demografx--Thanks for writing that letter. As for the add you want to post in the Journal of Endocrinology, how much
would that cost? I would definitely be willing to chip in, if we can all do it together and keep the cost down. How does everyone
else feel about the add posting?


The ad prices are shown in the Journal link I posted. Thank you, girlwind, for raising the question....
***who else is in?***
OK, folks, anyone else who can commit to some hard cash to advertise and hopefully (no guarantee) attract the right consulting endocrinologist for this Forum who might help us on the road to finding a POIS cure?

If so, just state what you would be willing to contribute and we'll go from there. But we will not ask for real money yet until we haved finalized a plan. This is to just get an idea of our budget.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #901 on: 19/07/2008 05:07:06 »
Demografx : Advertising in this journal is very expensive but if enough people here want to help i'll certainly be among them.

John21 : i think that even if the prostatitis is not the cause of our symptoms, i don't know, i believe that there is a connection between prostate and pois. Your experience could also be related to an other prostate dysfunction.

Sparx : A web site is a lot of work. Are you sure we'll have enough content for it ?
I can help for web development if necessary.
I think a place where we can vote on symptoms ("do you have fatigue after orgasm?" , or even on questions like "web site ?", "advertising in a journal ?" will be very useful. Everybody here should be able to "post for an idea of vote". The result will be eg : 50/60 cases of pois have fatigue, 60/60 want a web site . Ten will make the web site !

Girlwind : thank you for making this film even if you're not in it !
I'm sure it will be a success.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #902 on: 19/07/2008 11:53:09 »
I don't wish to invest in an endocrinologist. I imagine paying for an opinion will just result someone grabbing the cash and saying "sorry, can't help you".

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #903 on: 19/07/2008 12:12:05 »
http://medicalcenter.osu.edu/pdfs/PatientEd/Materials/PDFDocs/dis-cond/general/kegel-for-men.pdf

Quote
What is the Pelvic Floor?
The Pelvic Floor is a “hammock” of muscles that supports the internal abdominal and pelvic organs. These muscles run in different directions and are different sizes. The job of these muscles is to support, lift and control the muscles that close the urethra (tubethat urine passes through).

I have always had the condition of having difficulty starting to urinate, even from childhood. This may sound bizarre but what would really help is to lightly move my fingers across my buttocks, somehow this enabled me to start the stream, perhaps helping to relax the “pelvic floor”.  Of course this could only be done in private, I have always dreaded using public washrooms because of the difficulty "starting".


http://www.physioforwomen.com/Pelvic_floor_exercises_for_%20pe.pdf

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Men who learn to identify,contract, and relax their pelvic floor muscles develop a great deal of awareness of how their body works and increases their self confidence. By being aware of how muscles tend to contract when feeling anxious, one can develop the skill to help reduce anxiety by relaxing the muscles, similar to the way we use breathing techniques to calm ourselves when stressed. Relaxing the pelvic floor muscles may have an effect on the nervous system which can help to control the timing of ejaculation. Strengthening the pelvic floor muscles, in addition to learning to relax them, may help improve blood circulation, nerve and blood vessel supply. This develops tone, strength and endurance, all of which enhance genital sensation and sexual pleasure. It is also possible that strengthening the pelvic floor may allow some men to achieve a form of orgasm without allowing ejaculation, and thereby perhaps reach multiple ‘climaxes’ during sexual activity. This technique has been practiced by the Taoists of ancient China as well as Yogics in India, and continues to be part of the teachings of Tantra.

I have always had PE, perhaps the condition of the "pelvic floor" is responsible.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_prostatitis/chronic_pelvic_pain_syndrome

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Quercetin has shown effective in a randomized, placebo-controlled trial in chronic prostatitis using 500 mg twice a day for 4 weeks[51] Subsequent studies showed that quercetin, a mast cell inhibitor, reduces inflammation and oxidative stress in the prostate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin

Quote
Foods rich in quercetin include capers (1800mg/kg)[1], lovage (1700mg/kg), apples (440mg/kg),

Perhaps there was more than soluble fiber that was helping me last week when I was benefiting from eating 2+ apples a day, perhaps the "quercetin" was doing something.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #904 on: 19/07/2008 12:21:28 »
I am curious, does anyone else here experience teeth grinding (bruxism)? I do this and wear a night guard for it. I am considering ordering a hypnosis cd to see if it might help.

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Offline El Stonio

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #905 on: 19/07/2008 15:46:17 »
Hi Guys/and any Gals,

I think I've come to a definitive answer for myself concerning this problem.  I've tried different things listed in this thread and with varying degrees of success.  But recently I suspected a yeast infection, thru-out my body, as the culprit.  I visited an experienced naturopath and she confirmed that I did in fact have a serious yeast infection.  I have followed the guidelines on how to eliminate yeast infection from running amok and feel much better.  Post orgasm "symptoms" are very low/non existent.  If you are interested in this line of thinking just google candida or yeast infection.  The strategies for eliminating yeast from your body are available online.  Good luck.  I know this is a serious problem, don't give up.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #906 on: 19/07/2008 16:59:39 »
El Stonio, how did she confirm the existence of yeast?

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Offline msl

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #907 on: 19/07/2008 22:19:27 »
Hi guys, im still about! I'm going to try and play a more active role in this forum, it seems i only come to you guys when I need comforting. Im up for making that video, that sounds a very good idea to me. Together we can beat this ^^ and the website would be a good way to get together. Imagine if this site were to go down O.O I actually need you guys.

Yukka:ich möchte Sie hier Willkommen heiβen. Mein Deutsch ist keineswegs perfekt, aber ich könnte vielleicht für sie übersetzen. Die wichtigste Sache dass wir tun können ist dieser Thema zu besprechen und wir interessieren uns für ihre Erfahrungen =) Hoffentlich hören wir bald von dir!

That was just a little hello for Yukka guys =) no secret information being discussed here! I said we wanna hear about his/her experiences and stuff

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #908 on: 20/07/2008 00:02:28 »
Hi sparx, to answer your question: I took Vitex for about 6 months.  While I thought it seemed to be having a bit of an effect at first, it ended up being mostly minimal.  So, after a number of months of no further improvement, I stopped taking it.

hi Guthrie,   Sorry to hear Vitex hasn't helped (it looks good on paper but perhaps prolactin has nothing to do with POIS in the end, or Vitex doesn't lower prolactin enough). Would you mind saying how much were you taking and how often?  I've been taking it for about 6 weeks and thought it might be having some effect ... could be placebo! Thanks anyway!

hi imre1, considering Guthrie's experience with Vitex (and my own which is relatively limited so far) my earlier suggestion to you about Vitex could be completely misleading. I wish you the very best of luck with whatever you decide to try.


I was taking "Vitamin Shoppe Chasteberry (Vitex) Extract" capsules.  I had been taking three capsules each morning, with each capsule containing (according to the Supplement Facts on the the bottle) 200 mg Vitex extract + 300 mg Vitex.

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Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #909 on: 20/07/2008 09:50:57 »
Hi all,
It’s been a long time since my last post, sorry about that. I work away from home a lot and also I guess I have just been trying to get on with things and cope the best I can though have often thought of you guys and the forum. But…WOW I have missed out on a lot here. I spent hours on Friday and yesterday trying to read up on what I have missed, no mean feat under the influence of pois day one and two. Well done everyone for keeping this forum going. I’m kicking myself a bit for not keeping up to date with it more and contributing more. I feel like it will take a week of constant work to digest all the postings. Demografx I see you are doing a great job as forum moderator. Welcome to everyone who has found the forum since I was last contributing.

Reading through the posts it is obvious that the forum has gathered a more powerful momentum of late and the emphasis has shifted as I always hoped it would from mostly swapping and collecting symptoms and theories (important in itself of course) to include a more proactive approach of heightening awareness, reaching out to more fellow sufferers and finding some researchers to help us. I made a list of all the contributors and I make it that we have 51 pois sufferers on this forum (in the process I discovered that B_Jim is keeping a similar list on page 11 of the forum here http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.250

There are some interesting ideas coming up on how to encourage medical researchers to investigate us. I think posting an advert in the Journal of Endocrinology is a good plan though not cheap. I expect we would need a half page advert to properly catch people’s attention. I would like to add my name to the list of people interested in contributing to an advert. Before submitting an advert here I’d also like to investigate other potentially relevant journals though it does defintiely sound like one of the best options.

A while ago I pondered the idea of trying to get a newspaper to run a story on our condition. Of course they did so in 2002 when Waldinger’s research hit the headlines but that was quite tabloidy. There are definitely negatives to doing something like this, it might attract pranksters to this forum for instance and I wonder how easy it would be to stay anonymous. The motivation would be to make pois higher profile and therefore to increase the chances of someone getting funding for some research. It could easily be very short-lived publicity though. I’m not sure if it is the right time just yet but who knows.

Girlwind I think your youtube idea is a really interesting alternative just now. As has been discussed the metadata would have to be done carefully and part of me wonders how people will find it but I see the CFS video you linked to has had nearly 40000 views and I would never underestimate the power of the internet. I have quite a lot of film-making experience and some photoshop skills. If you’d like to collaborate with making your film or just bounce ideas around do get in touch (if you work on these things better on your own that's fine too of course!).

A pois website is a good idea and this is also something I would be happy to get involved with. Certainly there is a lot of information on our forum now which would be more accessible and easier to evaluate and refer to if it was more organised. I have just a little experience designing websites and advising with website design (but really very few projects). I don’t have significant coding experience. I know there are a lot of free website templates on the web, including templates for forums. Perhaps we could save time by using a template. There’s no doubt that we have more than enough information to produce a useful website for anyone wanting to find out more about pois. I think the trick with websites is to make them easy to navigate with nothing too fancy and probably no Flash or similar.

Some potential website sections I might suggest would be (sparx, counterpoints and others have suggested some already)

-Description of POIS - list of the most important symptoms plus other known symptoms

-Case studies: description of each of our experiences with pois (would be anonymous)

- Questionnaire for anyone who suspects they have pois – downloadable or one that can be filled in online and entered into a database

-Overall results of our questionnaires

-Links – to other cases and information plus maybe to some sexual health organisations (no-one is affiliated with pois yet but maybe they will be)

-News

-Definition of terms – summaries or perhaps to save time, links to summaries, about different hormones and neurotransmitters plus other technical terms we refer to on the forum and what effects they are known to have and how they influence other hormones. This helps make postings more accessible and helps get newcomers up to speed.

-Things people have tried and any known success stories  - as has been much discussed this would need a disclaimer discouraging people from experimenting with drugs willy nilly. Like many others here I am always concerned when I read about people saying I’m going to try this or that. There are many side-effects documented for drugs affecting neuro-endocrine systems.

-girlwind’s video!

-A forum. Some forums have password protected sections. I wonder whether we should keep a list of researchers we have contacted in such a section to prevent them being inundated with emails etc. I think the present Naked Scientist forum should continue though how we would strike a balance between that and a new forum I'm not sure. Probably we would need to post a link from our Naked Scientist (ie this) forum to any new one we set up.

I see demografx has written to the Journal of Endocrinology exploring the possibility of getting a grant. I wonder if there is somehow a way of securing sponsorship from somewhere to fund our further investigations into pois and help recruit a researcher to look into the condition. Sorry that's just a thought at the moment!

I hope to contribute to our cause much more in future than I have so far managed. Last night I went to bed eager for today to arrive so I could get back to reading the forum and start contributing again. Unfortunately, I am due to be working away from home again for much of the next month but will definitely be sticking with this forum more and checking in when I can and contributing to the efforts that are underway.

It’s been said many times, including by myself but it is so great being able to talk to other people with pois who know what it is like to live with. I’m grateful to all of you for making yourselves known and sharing so much,

Best to everyone.
« Last Edit: 20/07/2008 09:53:21 by mellivora »

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Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #910 on: 20/07/2008 14:39:05 »
I have written some letters. I feel like we should ideally have a separate place for releasing details of people we have written to to protect their privacy and to prevent them being inundated with letters (hence my suggestion to have a password protected section of a forum for members of the forum only if we end up making a new forum). However, for the time being  shall present the information here as others have done to prevent members of this forum at least contacting the same people:

(1)
I found this paper:
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowAbstract&ArtikelNr=99840&Ausgabe=232878&ProduktNr=223864
and although I could only access the abstract it appears to give an overview of sexual symptoms that can be observed with endocrine diseases. It is also relatively recent (2007). I wrote to the corresponding author Emmanuele A.Jannini, Course of Endocrinology and Medical Sexology Department of Experimental Medicine, University of L'Aquila Coppito, Italy. Although the letter I wrote was tailored specifically to Mr Jannini, it is a variation of a letter I have sent elsewhere (copied below).

(2)
I have written to the committee and senior members of the International Society for Sexual Medicine as detailed on their website. http://www.issm.info/ I sent the following letter which you are welcome to borrow bits from (also see letters written by others such as Counterpoints, Girlwind, Demografx, B_Jim). We need to be careful to keep a note of who have written to as these details are potentially easy to overlook in our forum now that there are so many pages of it.

Dear ISSM members,
 
I am writing on behalf of over 50 people on an internet forum who all suffer from a virtually unknown condition which gives us crippling symptoms following orgasm (see more detailed description below). Searching elsewhere on the web suggests there are many more sufferers and there must be a significant number who have not yet spoken of their condition on the internet. I found your contact details on the ISSM website.
 
Our condition appears only to have been described by Dr Marcel Waldinger of Leyenburg hospital in 2002 and he classified it then as Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome. Unfortunately Dr Waldinger appears now to have moved on from his research into this condition and those of us who were in contact with him have now lost contact. In light of your senior positions within the ISSM, I am writing to you to make you aware of our syndrome and I hope that you will pass this information on to your colleagues. We really need to find a professional who can investigate our condition and find its underlying cause and help us find a cure or at least manage it better. I realise you must be very busy but I would be grateful if you could take some time to look at our forum. Any feedback and advice on how we should proceed would be gratefully appreciated. Our doctors have not been able to help us since essentially this is an unknown condition and requires much research.
 
The web address for our forum is here: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.0
There are many pages of detailed information here including our symptoms, experiences, medications we have tried etc. Realising that our forum discussion is very lengthy we are now working towards presenting this knowledge in a more organised way, perhaps via a dedicated website.
 
The symptoms from which we suffer last for up to two weeks (most commonly 3-7 days) after orgasm and the most prominent are extreme tiredness, difficulty concentrating, loss of speech fluency and cloudy mindedness. As well as this “brain fog”, members of our forum suffer other symptoms to varying degrees after orgasm including diarrhoea, constipation, muscle aches, sweatiness, feeling cold, feeling hot, restlessness, anxiety, depression. The symptoms from which we suffer are far reaching and are preventing otherwise intelligent and motivated people from working and socialising as they would like to. The impact of this condition on our lives is vast. When the symptoms wear off, we feel fine – until the next orgasm (which can be via nocturnal emission, masturbation or sex with a partner).
 
We are trying the best we can to educate ourselves as to the workings of the human body and you will see we have various quite detailed ideas on what the mechanisms of our symptoms could be. But we are not endocrinologists or neurologists (though some of us have scientific backgrounds) and a professional investigation is sorely needed. It would no doubt lead to publishable work too since this is such a little known condition. If there are 50 people on our forum, there must be a large number of others with the same condition who have not yet come forward. New sufferers are finding our forum all the time.
 
I realise research needs funding. I would be grateful for any advice you can give us on how to proceed, anyone you can recommend we get in contact with, any exposure you could give our condition to ISSM members and of course for any direct assistance you may be able to give.
 
Thank you for your time in reading this letter,
Best regards,

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #911 on: 20/07/2008 19:02:07 »
Hello Mellivora.  Thank you for writing those letters!

I've been working on the text for my youtube PSA/film this weekend and borrowed a few phrases from you.
(I trust that you don't mind.) I think I'm just about done with the "story" part of the film, but will go back to
re-edit, after doing some more reading on this forum. (I want to make sure I didn't miss anything.)

I might take you up on your offer for help with the film, but mostly I like to work alone--it helps me retain
my focus. What I haven't come up with yet is music (???) and I don't want to begin putting the text on screen
without it, as it will determine the pacing of the words going by. I had an idea in my head for the kind of music
I wanted--kind of slowish country western, that I could snatch from an old movie off Prelinger, but it figures
that what I hear in my head does not exist in reality. Do you know any sites where I can find music that's
in the public domain? Or any musicians whose music I can peruse through and use without copyright problems?

I also am impressed and pleased with the momentum of this forum lately. It seems like there's a core group
of us who are putting our best efforts to get this message out beyond ourselves, so we can get this weird
exhausting THING researched and figured out, and treated. Wouldn't THAT be nice.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #912 on: 21/07/2008 02:40:07 »
I am curious, does anyone else here experience teeth grinding (bruxism)? I do this and wear a night guard for it. I am considering ordering a hypnosis cd to see if it might help.


I do John. My wife gave up on me long ago. I went to a specialist who said losing weight is the key. I recently lost 30 pounds from gastro probs, so 'll see what it does.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #913 on: 21/07/2008 02:43:57 »
I have written some letters.

mellivora, thank you for your terrific work!

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Offline pyropeach

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #914 on: 21/07/2008 05:51:36 »
mellivora...excellent letter, in fact I'm going to save a copy of it in my documents.  I look forward to hearing the response to the letter.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #915 on: 21/07/2008 18:26:46 »
To all: Please be patient in regards to the questionnaire.  It has been written and tested and reviewed for some time.  We have had some issues with registering a host, but they will be cleared up soon. 

John: You said that for 5 days you had been free of the mental POIS symptoms, with your new diet?  How are things going now?  Are you still free of these symptoms?  Have there been any relapses?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #916 on: 21/07/2008 21:30:09 »
*FROM CHRIS @ THE NAKED SCIENTISTS RE MY LETTER TO JOURNAL OF ENDOCRINOLOGY

*Chris is the Founder of The Naked Scientists Radio Show and website. Medical Degree and PhD at Cambridge University, neuroscience degree from UCL. Currently clinical lecturer in Virology at Cambridge University.

===================================================================

(Please note Chris' thought on our contacting a "psychiatrist / neuroscientist working on dopamine/serotonin and mood, since this is almost certainly more their area than endocrinology.")

**DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS?** (POIS Forum consensus seems to be leaning to endocrinologist)

===================================================================

Dear demografx

Thanks for writing. I'm afraid I've been too snowed under to take this further for you at the moment, but I can make some suggestions regarding your letter.

The content is very non-specific, and you do not explain why you are writing and what you would like the person to whom the letter is addressed to do about it!

I would suggest a more thorough letter setting out, in detail, the general symptoms, how many cases you have gathered together (because numbers are very important in research and statistics), and what is already known about people with this problem.

Then you should propose that you are willing, having assembled a cohort of individuals with the condition, to facilitate access to these subjects for someone to do some basic research and / or write up the cases more formally.

No one would ever get a grant to study something without preliminary data to show that this is an avenue worth pursuing. Strange I know - that you should have to almost do the research before anyone will fund you to do it - but that's how it works.

I'd also send the letter to a psychiatrist / neuroscientist working on dopamine/serotonin and mood, since this is almost certainly more their area than endocrinology.

What will swing it will be the fact that you can put forward a clinical syndrome, a number of affected cases with consistent symptoms and the ability to make this cohort available for study.

Then I think you'll be in with a chance. Saying "the first limited study of this illness generated quite a bit of international publicity for Marcel Waldinger, MD from The Netherlands" could imply that the guy was taken to the loony bin and denounced as mad by the international community. It also begs the question if it was so successful, why's he not still researching it.

I hope these points are constructive and helpful.

Best wishes

Chris

===================================================================

THIS IS THE EMAIL LETTER I SENT TO SOCIETY FOR ENDOCRINOLOGY JOURNALS (Journal Of Endocrinology and The Endocrinologist)

We are an Internet Forum, http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.new#new
exchanging ideas among sufferers of a malady called Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

After orgasm, we suffer greatly for as much as a week afterwards with a variety of debilitating symptoms. To date, there is no cure. It has ruined many lives.

It is hoped that a research endocrinologist would step forward and look at our many postings from all over the world and show us a path to a cure. We have already made some promising headway through trial and error.

Several years ago, the first limited study of this illness generated quite a bit of international publicity for Marcel Waldinger, MD from The Netherlands. But we have gone far beyond his work.

I would think that a study such as this could qualify for a grant.

Can you help?

Sincerely,
« Last Edit: 22/07/2008 18:36:02 by demografx »

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #917 on: 21/07/2008 23:17:20 »
EMAIL LETTER TO SOCIETY FOR ENDOCRINOLOGY JOURNALS
we suffer greatly for as much as a week ...
It is hoped that a research endocrinologist would step forward and look at our many postings from all over the world and show us a path to a cure. We have already made some promising headway through trial and error.
I would think that a study such as this could qualify for a grant.
Can you help?


A big THANKS to all for your letters (and answer).

I like the overall answer but i have just two small comments.
I think Demografx was explaining  well why he was writing and that we're ill, searching for someone to help us to understand the problem and find a cure. I'm very tired after orgasm to the point i can hardly walk or talk to people for days. Considering this i think it's normal if mood is going down for a while. I feel that fatigue came first, before mood disorders. I don't know how many people here took ssri without success. (However this point is not clear for me, same thing for drugs touching to dopamine and noradrenaline). I think at the beginning we were focusing on the endocrinologist because of the cortisol theory and people who have been cured with hormones. I suggest to keep our initial path for now until we have new findings. While doing this we can also write to psychiatrists/neuroscientist, the more we try the more we'll get. Unfortunately practitionners are too busy (and i understand them in a way) to really focus on our problem, but hopefully one day will come where a rare illness will find the rare doctor.

For now , fight alone !
« Last Edit: 21/07/2008 23:34:37 by martin88 »

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #918 on: 22/07/2008 10:28:24 »
Counterpoints:
I had initial success (no symptoms in first few days after NE) while eating more apples and oats, which I attributed to the benefits of soluble fiber, but later in the week I did have mental symptoms and what felt to be discomfort in the lower pelvic area. This got me speculating about some kind of inflammation happening in that area. So I tried the "Budwig" diet for a couple of days and my problems went away, but I am unsure if this was due to the diet or that merely resolved itself. I have not continued this "Budwig" diet but I will definitely try it on my next episode... this could take a while depending on when I happen to have an NE. 

I am recalling that at the beginning of the week, at the time of the NE I was also eating a clove of raw garlic every night and cooked onions (considering "candida"), so perhaps that contributed to my initial success.

From: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=60

Quote
Garlic, like onions, contains compounds that inhibit lipoxygenase and cyclooxygenase, (the enzymes that generate inflammatory prostaglandins and thromboxanes), thus markedly reducing inflammation.

Sometimes I have too many irons in the fire.  [:D]
« Last Edit: 22/07/2008 10:50:46 by John21 »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #919 on: 22/07/2008 18:10:39 »
I am curious, does anyone else here experience teeth grinding (bruxism)? I do this and wear a night guard for it. I am considering ordering a hypnosis cd to see if it might help.


I do John. My wife gave up on me long ago. I went to a specialist who said losing weight is the key. I recently lost 30 pounds from gastro probs, so 'll see what it does.

Correction: I must be getting senile, I went to a specialist for  _snoring_  not teeth grinding! Sorry. (But yes I do have the teeth grinding problem)
« Last Edit: 22/07/2008 18:19:48 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #920 on: 22/07/2008 18:44:21 »

I'm very tired after orgasm to the point i can hardly walk or talk to people for days. Considering this i think it's normal if mood is going down for a while. I feel that fatigue came first, before mood disorders. I don't know how many people here took ssri without success. (However this point is not clear for me, same thing for drugs touching to dopamine and noradrenaline). I think at the beginning we were focusing on the endocrinologist because of the cortisol theory and people who have been cured with hormones. I suggest to keep our initial path for now until we have new findings. While doing this we can also write to psychiatrists/neuroscientist, the more we try the more we'll get. Unfortunately practitionners are too busy (and i understand them in a way) to really focus on our problem, but hopefully one day will come where a rare illness will find the rare doctor.

For now , fight alone !

Martin, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Except for "fight alone!" I fought alone for 30 years, but with you and all the others sharing ideas at POIS/TNS I feel less drained and more hopeful now that it's a "group fight" !
« Last Edit: 22/07/2008 18:52:24 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #921 on: 22/07/2008 18:50:01 »

Demografx I see you are doing a great job as forum moderator


Thanks, mellivora! And best wishes back to you!

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Offline yukka

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #922 on: 23/07/2008 01:13:08 »
ich möchte Sie hier Willkommen heiβen. Mein Deutsch ist keineswegs perfekt, aber ich könnte vielleicht für sie übersetzen. Die wichtigste Sache dass wir tun können ist dieser Thema zu besprechen und wir interessieren uns für ihre Erfahrungen =) Hoffentlich hören wir bald von dir!

Thanks rapidgaming, your german language is perfect [:o]


@ Martin

my DHT test was done hours after orgasm, also have had 1-2 orgasm/day the weeks before.


The same result here (study)

Orgasmic frequency in males – whether through sexual intercourse
or masturbation – correlated positively with free, biologically
active testosterone, serum testosterone or dihydrotestosterone (DHT)"
(Kraemer et al. 1976, Monti et al. 1977, Brown et al. 1978, Knussmann et al. 1986, Dabbs & Mohammed 1992)

------------------------------------------------------------ ---

BMJ 1995;310:1289-1291 (20 May)
Papers
Contribution of dihydrotestosterone to male sexual behaviour
Christos S Mantzoros, Emmanuel I Georgiadis, head, Endocrine Unit,a Dimitrios Trichopoulos, professor and chief b
a 401 Military Hospital, Athens, Greece Christos Mantzoros, resident in medicine, b Department of Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts 02215, USA

Correspondence to: Dr Mantzouros, Department of Endocrinology, RN 324, Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, 330 Brookline Avenue, Boston, Massachusetts 02115, USA.

Abstract

Objective: To document the relative importance of endogenous sex steroids in modulating the frequency of orgasms, the dominant aspect of sexual behaviour in healthy eugonadal men.
Design: Measurement of adrenal and testicular sex steroids in a sample of army recruits and study of their relation to frequency of orgasms ascertained by questionnaire after potential confounding variables were controlled for.
Setting: Military campus and military hospital laboratories in Athens, Greece.
Subjects: 92 consecutively enrolled healthy male recruits aged 18-22 years.
Main outcome measures: Weekly number of orgasms. Serum concentrations of testosterone, dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate, dihydrotestosterone, oestradiol, oestrone, {delta}-4-androstenedione, and sex hormone binding globulin.
Results: Serum dihydrotestosterone concentration was the only independent hormonal predictor of the frequency of orgasms; an increase in concentration of 1.36 nmol/l (about 2 SD) corresponded to an average increase of one orgasm a week.

"more orgasm = more DHT"

Conclusions: Differences in concentrations of circulating dihydrotestosterone within the normal range may represent a major predictor of sexual activity in healthy young men.
« Last Edit: 23/07/2008 01:19:15 by yukka »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #923 on: 23/07/2008 01:34:49 »
Hello yukka,

Thank you for your posts. yukka, would you be interested in writing a letter or an email to The Department of Endocrinology at Harvard's Beth Israel Hospital to see if they would help advise us here at this Forum to find a POIS cure? We have a wealth of information to offer them. Thank you for reading this and considering it!

As I hope you're aware, there are several template/form letters that have been written here - including on this page - that you can use.
« Last Edit: 23/07/2008 01:47:09 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #924 on: 23/07/2008 01:43:21 »
TO COUNTERPOINTS


I have written some letters. I feel like we should ideally have a separate place for releasing details of people we have written to to protect their privacy and to prevent them being inundated with letters (hence my suggestion to have a password protected section of a forum for members of the forum only if we end up making a new forum).


COUNTERPOINTS, do you think your new project can accomodate this?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #925 on: 23/07/2008 01:52:21 »
PROGRESS

I am very hopeful. We are gathering steam! Letters out. Templates in place. YouTube in progress. Questionnaire site in progress. Exciting stuff compared to just a few short months ago!!! Thanks all!!!!

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Offline cookie87

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #926 on: 23/07/2008 02:54:38 »
Hello there everyone.  My name is Dan and I just recently came about this forum.  It seems to be something I’ve been looking for for a VERY long time…  Something I’ve been feverishly looking for an answer to; why, as long as I can remember (since I started or not too soon after) feel so terrible physiologically after I masturbate.  Being a very sensitive topic that one naturally comes with a built-in difficulty talking openly to people about, my progress on this topic has been nonexistent.  To have a label that hits the symptoms right on is such a relief words cannot even begin to express how relieved I feel about it, in a way. (the true relief comes when we figure out a way to put an end to it all!)

I just turned 21 a month ago and the symptoms of POIS have plagued me ever since I started masturbating.  It all happened in baby steps, probably first discovering “the joy” at 11 and probably discovering the orgasm half way through high school, although it may have been sooner than that.  I can’t pinpoint the exact details or if it’s always been completely like this, but the procedure goes like something like this.  Something arouses me, be it a visual or just some fantasy comes into my head.  If it all depends on where I am of course and the circumstances, but in a situation when I can, I go in to the bathroom and act on it.  Or “save it for later”.  Okay, this is the normal part that’s no different.  So I go masturbate and reach orgasm, which may take different lengths of time.   I have alternate methods, like lying down and using a towel, or sitting on the toilet and using my hand.  Once I’m done and have cleaned up, within minutes the symptoms appear. “Extreme tiredness, difficulty concentrating, loss of speech fluency and cloudy mindedness, and “brain fog” nail it exactly.  In most cases I masturbate right before showering, so it will all begin to sink during the shower, for example, so by the time I get out it’s like “Gah… why did I have to do that”? 

Yes, I know what’s going to happen and expect it every time but continue to masturbate, which of course is a no-brainer knowing the sex drive is that powerful where we will all make the sacrifice.  I’ve done many withdrawal attempts over the years but I always “loose the battle”.

My situation is much more complicated.  I go to psychotherapy, as I have a diagnoses of Asperger’s Syndrome, although I mild case of it I still have many of the symptoms, and what has stemmed from it is cases of anxiety and depression.  Although I’m not on anything right now, for the past 3 years different psychiatrists have experimented many different medications in the anti-depressant and anti-anxiety families, most SSRIs.  The experiences with these have weakened my sex drive and times and at when in effect weakened my orgasms as well.  But first off, the medication side effects, no matter what it was always had so kind of a negative effect similar to POIS, namely the brain fog, although I would say it felt a bit different.  So at that rate it would be like a double whammy.  But like I said, medications have been out of the picture, but the POIS (what I’m labeling myself with at the moment anyway) is still wrecking havoc on my life.  As of lately, for whatever reason I have also been seeing what I’m assuming as a serotonin dip after my orgasms, so I’ll masturbate before my night shower and then, when the low feeling sinks in and the house gets dark… Yeah, quite the unpleasant feeling.
For awhile I didn’t bother to do any research or even label this as an illness, as I thought it was something everyone experienced.  But you never hear about it in the media, for example a couple doesn’t say they’re going to have sex on a sitcom and explain they will have to set aside a few days afterwards due to some sort of negative feeling, do they?

I also admit at times I do tend to masturbate quite often, like multiple times a day which I read can cause similar symptoms we are talking about here due to the fact you’re pushing for chemicals to be released and used faster than the body can produce them, which causes the stress.  Some things to add before I end my first, introductory post.  I notice the symptoms are worse and maybe a bit longer lasting when I use the sitting up, hand method rather than the lying down.  The sitting up does take longer too, so may have something to do with it.  Also, I don’t always need to reach orgasm to have the symptoms, as for one reason or another there are times I masturbate and do not reach one, and still suffer.

I just started talking to my psychologist about all this, and he was initially baffled and predicted my primary physician would even more so be. He recommended I do more online research and said he would look into it as well when he could.  If participation in forums with people of similar symptoms was possible, he recommended joining in so here I am.

-Dan

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #927 on: 23/07/2008 06:11:32 »
Welcome, Dan! I do think you're in "the right place" and share the same bewildering malady as the rest of us. We also felt like you, relieved to finally find SOMEONE who knows what the heck's going on with this!

Your psychologist sounds like a good ally. Most of us have experienced blank stares - and worse - from the medical/professional world.

So sit back and enjoy the ride. Certainly contribute if you can (e.g., we're looking for an endocrinologist/advisor who can sift through all our posts and suggest cures). We have had some breakthroughs here. I, for example, have found Levitra (inappropriate for you I'm sure, it's mainly for older folks) to be 75% effective against my POIS symptoms - all because this Forum made me more keenly aware of what chemicals I put into my body and how they might affect POIS.

One hope I have, for example, is that an outside advisor to this Forum might see which components of Levitra are working to relieve POIS for me...and why. Then this information may be generalized - again, hopefully - to a cure for all! I'm not 100% sure it's appropriate or safe for someone without ED (erectile dysfunction) to take this medication. It can affect the heart, I think. But a "POIS-modified Levitra" (if that proves to work) would be a nice dream for us to realize. Heck, though, I'm getting greedy and want to see a 100% - not 75% - cure!

Besides, we mostly don't need stronger erections [;D], we need relief from horrible after-orgasm symptoms that last for long, agonizing days!

Read some of the past posts and you'll see other positive results people have had here. But PLEASE be very careful and review any curative ideas with your doctor. First, make sure your physician is not the average physician who has no clue and MIGHT NOT WANT TO KNOW about POIS! We have all run into doctors like that. If you find one like that, RUN! Fire him and then find one who is like your psychologist. POIS is not a well-known, researched condition. But look around here, and there's no doubt at all that it's a full-blown legitimate malady. You might even have a better medical reception if you print out and show some of the pages here that tell how deadly serious this thing is.

Best wishes again, Dan. My hope is that you don't go through 30+ more years of POIS like I did. And, happily now, it's highly unlikely! So stick around for the pioneering fun here!
« Last Edit: 23/07/2008 06:51:26 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #928 on: 23/07/2008 06:34:35 »
Fantastic job Mellirova. Today i have a severe derealisation 10 days after last one. But I sleep very bad  since a week and I think adrenal glands can't do the job when you sleep bad several days... The other point (only for me) of this is damn computer and fluorescent lights. When i use too much computer i sleep bad and feel like sleeping... :/

B_JIM: I HOPE YOU FEEL BETTER SOON!!

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #929 on: 23/07/2008 19:21:46 »

Just found a forum that is based mainly on sexual exhaustion :

http://recover.forumup.org/forum-4-recover.html

Lots of articles here as well regarding POIS :

www.actionlove.com

There seems too be some people on the above forum who have
had some success with treating ejaculation recovery and brain fog
by eating 4-6 raw eggs a day due too the amount of choline in it.

Has anyone tried this ?



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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #930 on: 23/07/2008 20:01:55 »
I think most of us have heard of actionlove.com.  It was one of the first websites that addressed issues of this kind.  It was discussed in this thread on this forum.  I think most of us felt it seemed kind of sketchy.


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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #931 on: 23/07/2008 20:58:51 »
Just got some new tests done :

Free T3 4.5   2.5 - 6.5 Optimal 6.0 +
SHBG 16 15 - 48 Optimal 23 - 28
IGF-1 277 100 - 300
PSA 2.5  0.5 - 5 Optimal 0.5 - 2

Cost £95 or so from ZRT

Thyroid is not too bad although should be higher for my age.
Shbg is too low which indicates a Thyroid or Insulin problem.
In process of checking Insulin resistance.(£55)
IGF-1/HGH is good.
Prostate not too bad but could be lower as tends too increase with age.

Next I will be checking 24 hr Cortisol saliva test(£80) which is taking morning, noon, afternoon and evening. I will take this test the day after ejaculation when POIS is at its worst. My first morning cortisol test came in at:

4.1 3.7 - 9.0 Low

If low again then I will start cortisol treatment slowly and possibly Armour for Thyroid if needed.


Previous results:

Estradiol (E2) 1.0 pg/ml 0.5-2.2

Progesterone 4230H pg/ml 12-100

Estriol (E3) 3.0 pg/ml 0-3.0

Estrone (E1) 4.2H pg/ml 0-3.0

Testosterone(Bio) 254 pg/ml 115-3700(5-50mg topical 12-24 hr)

Dheas 9.9 ng/ml 2-23(Age dependant)

Cortisol Morning 4.1 ng/ml 3.7-9.5

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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #932 on: 23/07/2008 21:11:09 »
I think most of us have heard of actionlove.com.  It was one of the first websites that addressed issues of this kind.  It was discussed in this thread on this forum.  I think most of us felt it seemed kind of sketchy.



I agree.

Some of the theroies on his website have proven too be true with the medical study links shown on his website but his products do not do as Lin states and only seems too work with people with very minor symptoms.

For example I caught Dr lin out in our email exchanges.

I first asked if his products will work for everybody who has POIS or sexual exhaustion?

He replied Yes.

I then asked him " What of his products could lower SHBG levels and lower
Cortisol " ?

He replied "all of them for Shbg and Detoxia and 5htp too lower Cortisol".

I then replied with " My Shbg levels tested the last 2 years have been
18 - 12 - 52 and then 16 15 - 48 recently. Taking anything that lowers Shbg levels like fish oil, Nettle root etc makes me very fatigued and need too sleep a few hours after taking it. I then asked him if he would still recommend his products too me even though my Shbg levels are low.

He replied with " Your liver has been severely damaged and nothing can help you".

Hes half right my liver is damaged but ofc there are many things that can help a damaged liver like :

Milk thistle extracts
Choline(Really helpful for fatty liver)
Red yeest rice
samE
Hawthorn Berry
Celery
Vitamin B6+12
Lecithin
Tmg

Improved diet, more raw vegetables, lots of water, more fibre too improve digestion which then lessens the load on the liver, no fatty fried food etc

Lin obviously didnt want too spend any more time as he knew he would not be making any profit from myself.
« Last Edit: 23/07/2008 21:33:19 by Michael8028 »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #933 on: 24/07/2008 02:53:11 »
I got a response from Bryan Timmins at the BioHealth Diagnostics Lab. He's been asking around "and there appears to be very
little knowledge on POIS among functional medicine docs."
He asked "Have you read the work of Reich and orgone? Something
tells me there may be a clue in there. I am not sure how to look  at the syndrome from the perspective of hormone pathways,
deficiencies, imbalance, and such. Does it happen after every orgasm?"


I have filled him in on as much as I could and sent him a link to this forum. He seems like a nice person, but so far no luck in
coming up with any help for us.  [:(] [:(]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #934 on: 24/07/2008 03:41:08 »
I got a response from Bryan Timmins at the BioHealth Diagnostics Lab. He's been asking around "and there appears to be very
little knowledge on POIS among functional medicine docs."
He asked "Have you read the work of Reich and orgone? Something
tells me there may be a clue in there. I am not sure how to look  at the syndrome from the perspective of hormone pathways,
deficiencies, imbalance, and such. Does it happen after every orgasm?"


I have filled him in on as much as I could and sent him a link to this forum. He seems like a nice person, but so far no luck in
coming up with any help for us.  [:(] [:(]

All we can do is try. It might be very difficult for a small, for-profit co., which is my impression here. University and hospital affiliations may have more time and resources to work with us. Many thanks for contacting them.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #935 on: 24/07/2008 05:20:23 »
thanks demografx for being such a good moderator. I feel like you help to keep us all feeling included and appreciated.



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Offline Michael8028

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #936 on: 24/07/2008 17:47:21 »
Cases of POIS have been reported as early as 1880's :

http://www.amazon.com/Neurasthenia-Hygiene-Symptoms-Treatment-Medicine/dp/0405039336/ref=sr_1_1/103-6287509-7580637?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178063329&sr=8-1

This IS Sexual Exhaustion. In fact, this Western neurologist was using the term sexual exhaustion in 1880's I'll type in some of the text.

"That the symptoms of sexual excess can occur in the married as well as the unmarried is illustrated by the following case, which I saw with Dr. M. Joseph Roberts:
Case I.
The patient was an engineer on a railway, and had been married for 10 years. Two years after marraige he began to have involuntary emissions, which followed to excess. He had indulged in coitus on the average of five times weekly for two years. When he was first brought to me the emissions were occurring two and three times weekly; there was also a diminishing pleasure of normal intercourse. He was troubles likewise with stomach vertigo and nausea, muscae volitantes, and asthenopia. Sometimes the involuntary emissions would occur right after coition. There was a roaring sound in the ears, a feeling as if a band were around the head, and a sensation of coldness at the vertex- the cranial center, as I term it. There was constipation and much backache and spasm of the right eyelid

Case V
A young man, 22 years of age, had pain in the head, wandering pains in various parts of the body; ringing in the ears without any deafness or signs of objective trouble in the ears. He was troubled sometimes with emissions. He was very strong, muscular, and capable of working, and did work on the farm. He was troubled with vertigo, very much troubled with palpitation of the heart as well as fear of society, which he found impossible to overcome. He was also troubled with fits of depression, especially on getting up in the morning; as he expressed it, "I have a kind of fear of something which I cannot express" (pantaphobia). There was a lack of mental control an a deficiency of memory. With all this, there is was good appetite, regular bowels, and usually good sleep. The fact of interest in this case was the co-existence of palpitation of the heart and other nervous phenomena, with great muscular strength and great power for hard work. This patient entirely recovered, under treatment, in a short time. Examination of urine fuond excess of oxalates, which is a frequent fact in this form of neurasthia.

Case VII

A young man,29 years of age, told me that at the age of thirteen he began the habit of masturbation, and kept it up for five years. He says he learned the habit himself, which is a peculiar statement, inasmuch as almost all say they were taught the habit by schoolmates or servant girls. He confessed that he indulged for several times a day for six years. At the age of nineteen involuntary emissions began. At the age of twenty-two he began to be very nervous.
His symptoms were cardiac irritability, the heart beating on going up-stairs, or walking rapidly; getting out of breath even in conversation; dimness of vision; at times coming and going in a capricious way; mental depression; defective memory; fear of lightning; drowsiness; feeling of wetness and coldness of genital organs, as though water were passing out; pain in the lumbar region; weakness of the knees. In attempting to urinate, oftentimes only a very little urine would come at a time. After coitus he would have prickling and burning at the bottoms of the feet………..The parts were examined and found to be laxed; the scrotum was relaxed, and the testicles were small and soft.

Case X

A man ages 33…….at one time had frequent emissions. He had been mentally depressed, his eye were very sensitive. He had trouble with dribbling urine after the act of urinating was complete, and the penis, on examination, was found to be cold, and sometimes very much shrunken – what I call the shrunken penis…..

AND CHECK THIS ONE OUT!

Case XXIII

The following case shows also how sexual debility may exist in persons of great muscular strength. A gentleman thirty-seven years of age, an athlete, powerful, and distinguished in the gymnasium, large frame, though not very tall, consulted me two or three years ago for symptoms of sexual debility, which he feared might prevent his marriage. ……Yada Yada

THERE ARE SEVERAL CASES WHERE HE MENTIONS HOW STRONG THE PATIENT WAS.

Case XXIV

A young man, 33 years of age, began the habit of self abuse at the age of 17. after 3 years, he stopped; then cam involuntary emission. When he consulted me in the fall of 1878, …… He had a good pulse and an unusually strong stomach, firm muscles, and capacity for severe and protracted muscular toil in his trade.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #937 on: 24/07/2008 19:55:58 »
Michael, very interesting! I wonder if the symptoms lasted for DAYS. My opinion is that *days vs. hours/one day* is what separates sexual exhaustion from POIS.

I'm so tired I also feel my symptoms started in the 1880's [;D]

On a more serious note, I wonder if POIS has a _cumulative_ adverse effect on us over the years? In my non-POIS times, I often feel tired and drained and wonder if that's from 30+ years of suffering through days' worth of POIS exhaustion, POIS brain fog, etc.? Also, my overall non-POIS-times ability to concentrate is not great.

Any other thoughts on longterm debilitating POIS effects?
« Last Edit: 25/07/2008 03:14:02 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #938 on: 24/07/2008 19:57:49 »

thanks demografx for being such a good moderator. I feel like you help to keep us all feeling included and appreciated.


Awww  <blush>   thank you!  [;D]  

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #939 on: 25/07/2008 03:25:45 »
GIRLWIND

You might consider asking Mr Timmins what would the fee be for him to review all our posts and give us a preliminary report? Several people (including you and me, I think) have indicated a willingness to consider outside costs.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #940 on: 25/07/2008 14:53:05 »
Here is a "perhaps possible" hypothesis for pois : (I have had several like that in my life but i'm still ill !)

Maybe we have a problem with energy production linked with ATP :

I can find an usual pattern with my pois :

pois day 1 : feel very weak but a little bit of energy  -
bad sleep(not refreshing)

day 2 to 5 fatigue, no energy at all, all symptoms you know.
bad sleep

day 5 to 10 energy low but gradually increasing,
bad sleep

day 10 : kind of bulimia, eating more, feel nervous , energy sometimes high,
first night of refreshing sleep.

day 15 eating more, good sleep, feel energetic, a lot less nervous.

This pattern was very clear and repeated many times when i was younger. Now it's less clear (but stiil present) because i don't have the same amount of energy.

I think if we have more energy in the day for metabolism, sleep is better.
All the function/organs of the body need energy (digestive, brain, ...)
I usually feel very weak after meals (increased difficulty to speak to people)

Facts :
- semen contain ATP (and other nutrients for energy production) :
Adenosine triphosphate (ATP) is the main energy source used by the sperm flagellum to initiate and propagate forward motility
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=4558687

Magnesium is involved in energy production with ATP (see in google)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine_triphosphate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondria

- Supplement of magnesium was helping me a lot with fatigue in pois state, and is still helping me. I  prefer to take it in food however :

A good thing is to check the calcium / magnesium ratio in your diet.
According to some nutrition books you should take 2 calcium for 1 magnesium.
(eg. 800mg calcium / 400 mg magnesium)
-Vegetables often contain the right ratio (if there is not too much potassium in the fertilizers, i'm not sure of this)
-Some bottled water (not all, read the label).
-Milk : 115mg calcium for only 10mg magnesium ! (Maybe the reason why milk is not good for pois, however milk is rich in vitamin B2 involved in energy production ...)
-Cereals(not refined) usually contain a lot of magnesium, more than calcium
-Too much vitamin C decrease magnesium (i have a scientific reference)

- Apples are rich in  malic acid wich is also involved in energy production.


Perhaps there is a link between Levitra and ATP !  :

-inhibition of PDE5 enhances erectile function by increasing the amount of cGMP
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/levitra_cp.htm

-Thus, a nitric oxide-cGMP-dependent pathway controls mitochondrial biogenesis and body energy balance. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/299/5608/896

It would be interesting if we can act on energy, then we are touching a lot of functions in the body. Don't take all this as the truth, I have not enough medical background to make theories like this and interpret the studies we read online, but i'm trying to give a way to researchers according to my symptoms, eventually this can make sense for them.
« Last Edit: 25/07/2008 14:59:27 by martin88 »

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Offline post-chronic

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #941 on: 25/07/2008 15:32:58 »
RE raw eggs, if I remember correctly, lecithin granules are a better source of choline.

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Offline bola bola

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #942 on: 25/07/2008 20:53:25 »
Hello all. I'm new to this forum and yet another case of POIS. I'm 38, male, from the Netherlands. In my case, after orgasm I will feel extreme fatigue and will start sweating a lot, making me feel cold. My heart starts pounding and continues to do so for a few hours. My eyes feel very tired. I recognise the flew-like symptoms often spoken of. The next day I feel tired, my eyes still feel tired, and people sometimes tell me I look tired. I have difficulties concentrating. The third day usually symptoms are less and I start to function normally again. When I read some of the descriptions in this forum I guess you could describe my case as mild.

For a long time I actually did not even understand that there was something wrong, I just thought this was normal after orgasm, until my girlfriend made me see that this was not normal. We then found dr. Waldinger of the Leyenburg hospital in Den Haag, Netherlands. He examined me and confirmed that I have POIS.

I am now on Lexapro (unrelated) for depression. This has the side effect of greatly decreasing my libido. I don't really mind; it actually saves me a lot of time feeling bad and it's good not having to go through these annoying symptoms. I generally feel better physically. Of course in the long run I do not want to keep using anti-depressants.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #943 on: 25/07/2008 21:50:09 »
Welcome bola bola! Very interesting that you met with Dr Waldinger. We have tried to reach him with no success. I wonder if there isn't a group at Leyenburg Hospital who might offer us some assistance? We are looking for someone, probably an endocrinologist, who would review all the posts here at this POIS Forum, perform some concrete testing and make recommendations how to go about finding a POIS cure! (My experience with Levitra has been very positive, with a 75% cure, but it is not known if it can be taken safely by those who do not have ED (erectile dysfunction)- DHEA has also worked for someone here)

I also wonder if a higher Levitra dose, e.g. 20mg, might be a 100% cure? But I am not enough of a danger-seeker to find out on my own!

In any case, bola bola, you are more than welcome here.

TO OTHER NEWBIES: I'm very sorry if I missed welcoming you, sometimes my attendance here is not as strong as at other times.
« Last Edit: 26/07/2008 06:06:51 by demografx »

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Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #944 on: 25/07/2008 22:14:05 »
Hi everyone,
I'm back home for a couple of days and look forward to properly catching up with and responding to the week's  postings this weekend.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #945 on: 26/07/2008 02:13:50 »

Hi everyone,
I'm back home for a couple of days and look forward to properly catching up with and responding to the week's  postings this weekend.


Welcome back, mellivora

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #946 on: 26/07/2008 11:51:16 »
Good news.  [:D] [:D] [:D]


I had an NE Monday night. It is now Day 6 and I have had absolutely no symptoms. I have been eating raw and cooked onions and garlic each day (a clove of garlic and approx 1cm slice of onion, + cooked onion and garlic with my supper) plus I have also been eating daily some flax oil/cottage cheese mixture (2tbsp oil + 4tbsp cc)["Budwig diet"]. My hypothesis is that following orgasm the pelvic area becomes inflamed somehow, so I am consuming foods purported to help with inflammation. I believe that my apparent success with soluble fiber was actually due to the garlic and onions I was consuming after reading about Candida.

POIS

I = inflammation ????



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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #947 on: 26/07/2008 18:30:45 »
Hey John21:

Congratulations on your success!

What percentage of vegetables to protein did you use with this diet?  And what percentage of the vegies are cooked
vs. raw? And is there any other animal food, as in meat, allowed? Or is it only dairy?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #948 on: 26/07/2008 21:00:55 »

Good news.  [:D] [:D] [:D]


I had an NE Monday night. It is now Day 6 and I have had absolutely no symptoms. I have been eating raw and cooked onions and garlic each day (a clove of garlic and approx 1cm slice of onion, + cooked onion and garlic with my supper) plus I have also been eating daily some flax oil/cottage cheese mixture (2tbsp oil + 4tbsp cc)["Budwig diet"]. My hypothesis is that following orgasm the pelvic area becomes inflamed somehow, so I am consuming foods purported to help with inflammation. I believe that my apparent success with soluble fiber was actually due to the garlic and onions I was consuming after reading about Candida.

POIS

I = inflammation ????


John, congratulations! I hope the treatment continues and continues successfully! Please keep us all posted!

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Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #949 on: 27/07/2008 12:04:34 »
Quote
I had an NE Monday night. It is now Day 6 and I have had absolutely no symptoms. I have been eating raw and cooked onions and garlic each day (a clove of garlic and approx 1cm slice of onion, + cooked onion and garlic with my supper) plus I have also been eating daily some flax oil/cottage cheese mixture (2tbsp oil + 4tbsp cc)["Budwig diet"].

Wow John21 that’s great. I do hope it continues to work for you. I’m sure we’re all eating garlic cloves and onion and surfing the internet for Budwig diet details – I know I am! Like girlwind, I’d like to know how more about the other things you are eating and how rigidly you are adhering to the Budwig diet. I found this link http://www.cancertutor.com/Cancer/Budwig.html and I see that with this diet one should avoid:

Sugar
All animal fats
All meats
Margarine
Butter
Salad dressing oils- exception extra virgin olive oil and balsamic vinegar or lemon
Foods high in Preservatives

Have you cut all those things out of your diet as well as taking your dose of cottage cheese and flax oil?

Throughout all my time with POIS (about 11 yrs) I have had probably two occasions when emissions resulted in almost no symptoms. I was never able to explain why. Perhaps, at the time I was by chance eating the right combination of foods. It’s very early days of course but I really hope these diet experiments amount to something for all of u. Please keep us posed John21, thanks.

I am increasingly interested in the possible link between candida and pois. I see that one symptom of candida is an itchy anus, I have from time to time over the last couple of years had this and also a couple of years ago had a skin fungal infection on my inner thighs which was treated with some antifungal cream (eventually, except for a minor reoccurrence a few months later, the cream  seems to have done the job although I also moved abroad for a time in that period which resulted in a slight change of diet (I’d say better diet) and climate so its difficult to say!). Anyway I’m wondering if anyone else here has suffered itchy anus or skin fungal infection which might be eveidence for a candida link.  What I would say though is that these yeast infection symptoms only cropped up for me in the last 2 1/2 years and I have had pois much longer. Perhaps if they are related to pois and they are caused by candida, maybe candida is more a side effect of pois than the underlying cause. I don’t know. I guess it would make sense for me to get tested for candida infection. In the meantime – garlic and onion!