Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #950 on: 27/07/2008 12:21:05 »
I received a reply from a member of the International Society for Sexual Medicine. I would have preferred to have emailed you all the reply rather than post it here in public but I don't see a way to easily email all members of a particular forum. Do you know if this is possible? In the meantime, here is the reply which I hope the author doesn't mind me posting on the forum.

"Thank you for your e-mail. I have seen men with this bothersome problem and I certainly acknowledge the considerable distress that the condition can cause. I will be seeing Marcel next week and will speak with him about his knowledge of current research and clinical practice in this field. As you probably know, his main focus is currently on premature ejaculation, but he should still know who is currently interested.

I will have a look at your forum, too."

It's good to have some interest from ISSM. I think its important to bare in mind that these are all busy folk with full-time jobs without putting in extra time into researching pois. I think our best bet at the moment is to keep reaching out to as many people as possible to raise awareness of the syndrome - the more people are talking about it and the more cases of pois that are found, the more likely it is that someone will be able to secure funding and time to research it.

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Offline mellivora

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #951 on: 27/07/2008 12:33:58 »
Quote from Girlwind:
Quote
I've been working on the text for my youtube PSA/film this weekend and borrowed a few phrases from you.
(I trust that you don't mind.)

Hi Girlwind - of course I don't mind you quoting from my letter - glad it helps. And I totally understand you wanting to focus on the film by yourself - I often prefer to work alone creating such things. Unfortunately I don't know any internet sources of free, public domain music off the top of my head but googling things like 'public domain music' seems to raise a few possibilities. I'll ask some friends who might know more about this.

Garlic and candida :
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=180587
Great link B_Jim, thanks

Welcome bola bola, glad you found us.

Just a reminder: I'll be away from home most of the next couple of weeks with only limited internet access but will post when I can.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #952 on: 27/07/2008 23:26:25 »
Girlwind,
Quote
What percentage of vegetables to protein did you use with this diet?  And what percentage of the veggies are cooked
vs. raw? And is there any other animal food, as in meat, allowed? Or is it only dairy?

I'm not sure. I think my daily supper is typical: potatoes or rice + veggies + meat of some kind. I always cook my veggies, only now am I adding uncooked garlic and onions, and not really a lot of them, a clove of garlic, and a slice of onion. For meat I usually eat a soy/ground beef mixture, or sometimes fish, but that part of my diet is not new and could not explain my lack of symptoms this time. By the way, if anyone finds the raw garlic a little strong it can be chopped up fine and put on a cracker with Cheese Whiz, this seems to take some of the "bite" out of it, I actually like the taste of this.

I'm not sure which of these items is helping me, I know that "Budwig" stuff sounds a little dubious when you read the wild claims about it, and perhaps any benefit from it is not coming from whatever mechanism is purported to occur. Perhaps it is entirely the garlic and onion that is making the difference, at this point I have no idea.


Hopefully I am not premature in claiming my "success". I definitely had no symptoms this time and I am thrilled to report that, but in science nothing is proven with one positive result, there has to be repeated success. I dread the thought of getting someone's hopes up only to have them come crashing down, but I'm sure you'd all want me to speak up as soon as possible. Cross your fingers people.


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Offline solution

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #953 on: 30/07/2008 02:47:16 »
Me too I have started to add 1 clove of garlic (raw) a day to my diet. Greetings for John21.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #954 on: 30/07/2008 03:40:13 »
John 21--It sounds like it's not exactly the Budwig diet you're doing, as they are very strict about not using animal fats, meats,
processed foods (like Cheese Whiz) and sugar. So it must be that the garlic and onion that is the key for you. I have eaten a lot
of raw garlic over the years (to stave off chronic infections), but it hasn't made a difference with the POIS symptoms. I'll be curious
to hear how this onion  and garlic addition works for you in the long run.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #955 on: 30/07/2008 06:59:07 »
Does this mean that I now have to go looking for smelly Levitra? [;D


[:-'(]  <<<<===== crying from onions


John21, kidding aside this is exciting. Fingers AND toes crossed that this replicates!
« Last Edit: 30/07/2008 07:03:32 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #956 on: 30/07/2008 07:21:12 »
Googling onion and garlic and sex drive, a number of casual sources suggest a positive correlation. Could onion and garlic be a natural equivalent for the Levitra elements that help POIS?

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Offline sparx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #957 on: 31/07/2008 01:17:11 »
thanks demografx for being such a good moderator. I feel like you help to keep us all feeling included and appreciated.
Awww  <blush>   thank you!  [;D
Does this mean that I now have to go looking for smelly Levitra? [;D


[:-'(]  <<<<===== crying from onions

yes demografx, great to know you are taking care of us! I'd offer to give you a big wet hairy kiss [:X] , (but only on the cheek since you've eaten that smelly stuff  [:P] ...  I hope no one else will be discouraged from helping out by the thought of a similar offer ... I'm not at all 'easy'[:I] you know)

Never heard of using garlic as an anti-inflamatory before but it appears many others on the net have (and do!). I've taken odourless garlic supplements for months at a time in the past too, but never really noticed an effect on POIS.

Isn't it some sulphur compound that gives raw, fresh garlic its odour? Maybe that's the active element; sulphur? Are we looking at an infection of some type? Bacteria (yeast has been mentioned, but a broad-spectrum antibiotic treatment for yeast might also wipe out another unsuspected infection).

What about toxoplasmosis; do GPs ever check for signs of chronic infection unless they are asked? As far as I know my blood screens have never included tests for infectons.
Counterpoints' POIS research questionaire : newbielink:http://pois.olympe-network.com/ [nonactive]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #958 on: 31/07/2008 18:18:30 »
SPARX, thanks for the affection!

This onion/garlic route is such an unexpected twist to our mad search here for the RIGHT witches' brew! Why oh why couldn't I have found this Forum 20 years ago, when I was less burned out? Oh well, thankfully the next generation of POIS sufferers will have a much easier road, if not a 100% cure! History will look back at us like we look back at the days before aspirin-for-headaches!

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #959 on: 31/07/2008 21:42:06 »
Sparx:  toxoplasmosis

Interesting, I have never heard of this. I wonder if somehow a reaction post sexually allows something like Toxoplasma to take a foothold...

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #960 on: 31/07/2008 23:49:16 »
How did toxoplasmosis get into this discussion?  It's a parasite that you get from exposure to cat feces.
What connection does it have to POIS?

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #961 on: 01/08/2008 00:35:22 »
Girlwind,
We're just brainstorming... if raw garlic or onion are eliminating my symptoms what could be the reason? It is believed by some that garlic can kill various types of invaders:
 http://medherb.com/Materia_Medica/Allium_sativum_-_Antibiotic_and_Immune_Properties.htm


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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #962 on: 01/08/2008 02:07:29 »
So this brings us back to the idea that there is an immune correlation to this condition, for some of us. If anti-pathogenic
herbs like garlic help relieve your symptoms (John 21), then one would assume that the core of the POIS problem in your case
has to do with restoring healthy immunity. This would definitely give the endocrine system a break from having to be on
guard and fighting whatever yeast, bacteria, microbe is on your case, and enable it to restore itself. (That's one theory.)

But the Cheese Whiz---I can't quite squeeze my mind around that. Is it really a food substance...  [;)] [:D] [:D]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #963 on: 01/08/2008 05:21:52 »
I once went into Theory-Land like this when I thought that a testosterone injection worked. It turned out to be a placebo effect. 2nd time it didn't work.  [:(

But I wish John21 the best that this turns out well!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #964 on: 01/08/2008 05:32:03 »
INTERESTING FACTOID

Does everyone realize that John21 was the VERY FIRST PERSON TO POST AT THIS POIS FORUM?

February 18, 2007. A famous date for the history/medical books! (More interesting to me than the first moon landing date!)
« Last Edit: 01/08/2008 05:41:39 by demografx »

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #965 on: 01/08/2008 11:15:50 »
Demografx, it was one of those moments of pure despair...I was so embarrassed to post about it.

Girlwind, I feel the same about processed foods, but I'll make exceptions if it helps me out of the POIS box.  [:)]
« Last Edit: 01/08/2008 11:18:17 by John21 »

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #966 on: 01/08/2008 14:39:53 »
John21, a quick question for you--how many days had you been eating the raw garlic prior to your POIS-free NE?

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #967 on: 01/08/2008 23:24:51 »
Jim, yes I eat bread everyday.

Guthrie, good question…if I recall correctly I was eating the raw clove of garlic and cooked onions daily for three days prior, and then added the onion on day 2 after the NE. 

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #968 on: 01/08/2008 23:29:23 »
John21--
So, if I understand you correctly, if it was the garlic that was the active agent, it was able to prevent POIS after only 3 days of building up in your system.  That's pretty quick--again, let us know if it continues to work.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #969 on: 02/08/2008 09:09:15 »

But the Cheese Whiz---I can't quite squeeze my mind around that. Is it really a food substance...  [;)] [:D] [:D]


Girlwind, maybe John21 just eats the packaging?????

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Offline imre1

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #970 on: 02/08/2008 18:17:25 »
This is going to be my last post.

It might be benificial to have your hart rythm checked. My rythm seems to have been seriously disturbed following orgasm. Maybe then i wasn't suffering from a migraine, but of some sort of hart attack, which is a well documented occurence during sexual activity.

I am now on emconcor (beta blockers) and this has mostly solved all my problems.


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Offline ollecrev

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #971 on: 02/08/2008 18:27:54 »
Hi all,

I was happy to see this thread (even if a year late to it), as I've had very similar symptoms for a few years (I'm 32) and it's been very difficult.   After orgasm (which is most often from wet dreams at this point), I'll feel really unpleasant for several days, greatly fatigued, a weaker (I can't lift nearly as much in the gym, and have much lower endurance for cardiovascular activity), I often feel a non-localized "pain" like in my head and body that's really hard to describe - it feels like something's collapsing energetically inside.   I also have trouble focusing on work and generally engaging with people for any period of time (and I'm normally very social).   I've started to go to great lengths to avoid this, such as practicing techniques to avoid orgasms during sex (which makes my wife happy as well), avoiding masturbating, etc.  I've found doing that has other benefits to my well being, such as greatly improved strength, etc., except when I have an orgasm. After about a month or two of not having one though, I start to get a little out of balance and an orgasm is inevitable.

Now for me, I'm beginning to suspect it might be thyroid related (I think someone else here mentioned that they noticed it after treatment for high thyroid) - other folks in my family have low thyroid which began around my age, and initial bloodwork indicated high TSH levels - 5.3 (I don't know the units), which usually means the body's asking for more thyroid than it's getting.  My doctor said 5.5 is the usual level where you've got "low thyroid", but other doctors say 4.5 is a better threshold and that you need to take into account a lot more factors than just TSH level.     I've had depression off and on in my life, but that's also a symptom of low thyroid, FWIW.   When I described my symptoms after sex he didn't really take it very seriously - "oh yeah, men get tired".   Trying another doctor this week.

For my own remedies, I've found taking men's multivitamins helps the next day, and sometimes a big dose of vitamins followed by vigorous workout seems to "kick-start" my body out of it.   Seems counterintuitive, since the natural tendency is to be tired, but it's worked well for me.  I've wondered if I might be compensating for low thyroid by boosting my testosterone levels (which BTW the blood tests said were higher than average, which surprised me, since I expected them to be low).   I've also found eating eggs seems like it accelerates the recovery time by a day or two, though probably not so good for the cholesterol.   I'm going to try out the zinc suggestion today and see if I notice anything.

Anyway, I'm still reading through the forty-something pages of this thread, but it's been helpful.   I'm wondering if someone might turn the thread into a condensed digest form?

Thanks everyone for sharing.

Cheers,
ollec


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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #972 on: 02/08/2008 19:18:09 »
Ollec,
Quote
I've also found eating eggs seems like it accelerates the recovery time by a day or two, though probably not so good for the cholesterol.

I believe that our blood cholesterol levels depend mostly on our saturated/trans fat intake, and less on our ingested cholesterol. I have heard firsthand of a man eating three eggs for breakfast for many years and having a cholesterol reading the best the doctor had ever seen.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-full-story/index.html#cholesterol

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #973 on: 02/08/2008 22:24:40 »
Cholesterol is what all the steroid hormones in the body are made of. If one's cholesterol is too low, that will affect
the functioning of all the glands in the body. I know a bit about this, because my father was a pathologist whom I
use to have many discussions about health and diet with. He performed over 3000 autopsies in his life, and it was his
experience that those who lived to a ripe old age had a chunk of fat reserves in the area of the adrenal glands.  He
believed that healthy cholesterol rich body fat reserve is what nourished the entire glandular system and helped to
prolong these elders lives. (And no--that's not the same as  having rolls of fat around the middle section of the body,
which has often been associated with a higher risk of heart attacks, strokes and diabetes.)

Ten years ago I had severe malabsorbtion, due to a HCl deficiency. At that point my cholesterol was only 107, my
thyroid was pathetically low, my protein was in the red, my DHEA and testosterone was that of a 70 year old, and I
had ZERO energy. Once I started digesting and absorbing my food, it changed dramatically in less than a year. Un-
fortunately I went through a similar ordeal attempting to find the answer to my digestive problems, as we are going
through with the POIS problem on this forum. I actually had one doctor tell me I needed "to chew my food 100 times
and pray before eating." The answer I needed eventually came from a friend who gave me a few tablets of her digestive
aids to try--they had HCl in them, and the rest is now history. My cholesterol is now 168.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #974 on: 02/08/2008 22:41:04 »
For my own remedies, I've found taking men's multivitamins helps the next day, and sometimes a big dose of vitamins followed by vigorous workout seems to "kick-start" my body out of it.   Seems counterintuitive, since the natural tendency is to be tired, but it's worked well for me. 

Ollecrev, this is not counter intuitive.  Exercise can cause a release in endorphins, which may make you feel better.

I am starting to wonder whether Naltrexone or particularly Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) might help us.  There is a parallel between how opiates and orgasm affect the pleasure centre.  Naltrexone can also have sexual side effects similar to Levitra.  There may be a connection here.  (As far as I can tell, not much is known about why Naltrexone can have this stimulating effect).

Naltrexone would block the opiate receptors (for up to 24 hours), perhaps preventing an opiod overdose during orgasm which could cause these symptoms.  Low Dose Naltrexone works in almost the opposite way.  Because the dose is so small, the receptors are blocked for only about 3 hours, and the body compensates by generating more endorphins.  This is being used as an experimental treatment for people with a huge variety of nervous system disorders.

However, there are risks associated with the long term use of these medications, and I think a physician is unlikely to prescribe it for you unless you make a good case.  Naltrexone would usually be prescribed to people with serious alcohol or opiod dependencies.  Low dose (about 1 tenth the dose) is more experimental, and would have to be specially produced by a pharmacy (or you would have to make the dosage small enough yourself).

Please read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naltrexone
and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_dose_naltrexone

And let me know what you think.
« Last Edit: 03/08/2008 00:59:15 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #975 on: 03/08/2008 00:04:21 »

I'm wondering if someone might turn the thread into a condensed digest form?

Thanks everyone for sharing.

Cheers,
ollec


Ollec, WELCOME! and I agree, we need an easier way to read through all the POIS Forum posts.

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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #976 on: 03/08/2008 00:52:09 »
The questionnaire is somewhat of an answer to that need.  Though these things take longer to get in motion than I had expected -- they usually end up depending on many, many, people.

Thanks b_jim, for your help organizing critical information here.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #977 on: 03/08/2008 05:17:13 »
I can't fix magnesium and it's defintly low but I do my possible to increase it.
(I eat 1 egg/day for breakfast (2 in the past) without succes.)
B_Jim it's nice to see you here again. How did you know you were magnesium deficient ? About eggs i heard an actor (very popular, everybody know him) in a tv interview : his suggestion was to eat only one egg every morning and nothing else to recover from "all excesses of life". He was serious about this. (the "Nothing else" was important for him.)
Do you think eating an egg/day will help with magnesium deficiency ?

Interesting idea of excessive release of histamine and refers to immunology/hypersensivity/allergy too.
10 y ago i took some antihistamines to suppress nocturnal emissions. Bad idea !
I immediately started to feel cognitive problems with this treatment. I'm now more depressed than i was before i took this. 
http://www.aolhealth.com/condition-center/allergies/medication

I am now on Lexapro (unrelated) for depression. This has the side effect of greatly decreasing my libido. I don't really mind; it actually saves me a lot of time feeling bad and it's good not having to go through these annoying symptoms. I generally feel better physically.
Hi to Bola Bola, your post is interesting. Thanks for posting! I understand that taking this medication reduce your sexual frequency and at the same time pois. But what about nocturnal emissions with lexapro ?

About candida, i saw that we can make the test in a lab. I found the papers of the naturopath i saw a few years ago, the lab was genovadiagnostics. In their website in the menu "tests" you can see some sample reports. It's interesting for us pois sufferers but i'm still wondering why the conventionnal medicine can't give this to us. Is it only a money problem ?

Also i have a question for Girlwind. Did you have pois before this HCL deficiency ?
And do you know why you had this ? (salt deficiency ?) It could be interesting to know.

Counterpoints, i believe there is a part of withdrawals symptoms in pois. A kind of orgasm addiction. Some people are very sensitive to drugs intake and become easily addicted. An other theory, pois is a weaning ... Pois may have several causes. In your link it's written : Naltrexone has been shown to be effective in the reversal of sexual satiety and exhaustion in male rats.

Hello to Guthrie, I think pois can be cured in 3 days because some people have pois symptoms for only 3 days ! Why not !

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Offline Coreman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #978 on: 03/08/2008 15:23:43 »
I am a new guy here. I have been having POIS for the last 10 years, so I also know what it is all about. (Parameters: I am 28 now, POIS started at 18).

First let me congratulate folks, for the power we're demonstrating, exactly day-by-day. I am proud to be a member of this forum.     

Today I got down to summarize the essence of my personal experience with POIS,  which might be useful to others: 

1. SYMPTOMS

Which tend to occur after having an orgasm, and last 2-2,5 days: 

-Anxiety
-Sadness, emptiness, bad mood (I deliberately avoid using the term: "Depression")
-Fatigue
-Physical and emotional irritability  (on a high scale)
-Laziness (now matter how motivated and enthusiastic I was the previous day)
-decreased Learning abilities
-decreased speed of processing the info coming from the outside world (!)
-decreased pace of my thoughts (!)

-fairly decreased self-confidence (e.g. that I remember right the data, facts, numbers which are currently on my mind)

-negative expectations of everything (continually supposing  negative outcomes) 

-abdominal and back-pain
-tension in my shoulders and neck.
-continual hunger


By hard work,  I made a couple of these symptoms disappear.
(See my notes below)


WHAT WORKS for me (produced good results)

1. alkaline diet (eating fresh vegetables, alkaline food etc)
2. Kundalini Yoga (it helped made the 90 % of the "physical  fatigue symptoms" wear off, 100% of back pain and 100% of abdominal pain. I suppose it is remarkable.  Warning: I strongly recommend you visit a professional Kundalini teacher (10-20 years of experience) if chosing this stuff, in order to avoid possible risks and dangers. It is fairly dangerous to practice alone. 

3. Quick-paced cardio workout. In my experience, at least 30 minutes of 10-12 kmph running does the trick! It really helps me recover from the majority of these unpleasant symptoms, both  the physical and the mental side  . I must emphasize that only a fast-paced cardio workout does the trick in my experience, slow jogging does not.       

I suppose, cardio training is really worth trying. As a matter of course, only for those who are allowed to work out hard (by their doctor), so I strongly recommend consulting your doctor before giving it a try.

Briefly, my results on cardio training are: it reduces my recovery by 1,5 days. (My situation: 1 orgasm = 2,5 days POIS.) In other words, 2,5 days of damn difficulties decrease to 1 single day!  For instance, evening sex is followed by an early morning cardio workout by me. Both are healthy..:)
 

4. Decent hot meal..... (after orgasm)

I may come back on it later. (For me: chicken, fatty sauce and rice, often helps, but only to an extent...)
   
5. A good sleep (after orgasm.)  7-8 hours, uninterrupted, undisturbed, unmasturbed (eheh). In my experience, anxiety and fatigue are much worse if only 5-6 hours slept) 


6. Active barley formula - functional food. Very good. It helps me reduce fatigue to the level of 10% (by 90%). (However, the digestive system has to be in a good condition, so I went on a detox. diet earlier). It is superb.


UNDER TRIAL (by me)

7. Psychotherapy. (They say POIS may be of psychic origin, in many cases. One of the best sexualtherapist in my country   informed me

8. Psychiatric drugs. ( e.g. serotonine affecting stuff) INTERESTING: Anxiron (buspiron-hydrochloride) which is against anxiety helps me eliminate the majority of the other symptoms! (sadness, fatigue, irritability, laziness)  Wonderful! The root, in my case may be psychic, I came to the conclusion. The results of this try are really promising


9. Specialized Kinesiology (also "Energy Kinesiology)

Recently, I started a K. treatment, too. Surprisingly, the therapist (with 15 yrs experience) knew a lot about POIS, she calls it Post-Coital Depression Syndrome! She even mentioned she had already healed dozens of patents from it! Remarkable.

So, Energy Kinesiology (quite popular otherwise) is also being tested. I may report on the results later.

Summarizing,  it may be a good idea to visit a psychiatrist and test different drugs allowed by him/her, and attend psychotherapy. - POIS could be of psychic origin,  after all… I will report to the public on Kinesiology which is also promising ...

Besides this, I dare to recommend backing you up with physical training, proper eating, and other "biologic stuff". These launched a much better quality of life for me, which I enjoy now, tremendously!    Positive thinking is also required.

I am over the moon now that I found this forum. I am so content with coming across such strong fellows, who just do not give up.

Best wishes,

Hear from you,

Coreman.
 

-----------------------------------
OTHER HARD EXPERIENCES -
Stuff which haven't worked for me:

- Milk/bitter Chocolate:  -  I don't recommend. I tried it several times, it has good effects temporarily, but it has several terrible side-effects.  Unhealthy, too fatty, boosts your hunger, etc.

- Caffeine I don't recommend, you may know why.
....  (Personally, I got anxious, and more stressed by caff.)

-High-sugar foods (fructose, glucose) e.g. sweets.


Mod edit - merged with existing POIS thread, just to keep all on-topic stuff together
« Last Edit: 28/12/2008 12:42:00 by Coreman »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #979 on: 03/08/2008 16:12:12 »
Martin 88--In regard to your question about whether I had POIS before the HCl deficiency--
My main health issue is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, POIS is definitely secondary, but very much related, as they both seem to be the
result of adrenal exhaustion (in my case). I had no POIS and no other significant health problems before having CFS (which I've now
had close to 30 years). After the CFS reeked all-encompassing havoc on most of my body systems, my digestion went to hell. Initially
I thought the cause was candida overgrowth, because that was the "popular" diagnosis with the alternative health crowd at the time.
But after trying for many years to KILL candida, and only making myself weaker and skinnier and more nutritionally deficient, as a result
of the restrictive diets that went with the candida-killing protocols, I wised up that this was the wrong approach. After another several
years using digestive enzymes (of all different kinds and labels), without much success, I "accidently" came upon the HCl--given to me
by a friend, who had an intuition that I was HCl deficient like she was. (They say that most of the population has a noticeable decline in
HCL production after age 40; for some, like me, it was earlier still.) I think anyone who has a digestive issue related to their POIS should
consider trying the Betaine HCl--it's not very expensive and can be very beneficial.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #980 on: 03/08/2008 16:30:36 »
B_Jim:I wanted to let you know about transdermal magnesium. It's something I just found about from a friend who is
a nutritional consultant. Apparently many people don't absorb magnesium supplements well enough to heal their deficiency,
and for those who don't want to go through intravenous injections of it, the transdermal method seems to work just as well.
(I've had a magnesium deficiency for a long time despite taking magnesium daily, and am going to try the transdermal mag-
nesium as soon as it comes in to my local health food store.)

http://www.magnesiumforlife.com/mineraltherapy.shtml
Here's some quotes from the article:

One of the major disadvantages of oral magnesium compositions that are currently available is that they do not control the
release of magnesium, but instead immediately release magnesium in the stomach after they are ingested. These products are
inefficient because they release magnesium in the upper gastrointestinal tract where it reacts with other substances such as
calcium. These reactions reduce the absorption of magnesium.

“When people are ill, faced with magnesium deficiency and poor digestion, what do you think the odds are of fixing that
problem with oral magnesium supplementation and digestive enzymes alone?” asks Dr. Ronald Hoffman.

In his clinic Dr. Hoffman carefully measures magnesium and found that many patients with low magnesium who take just
oral supplements do not normalize. Dr. Mildred Seelig, renowned researcher of magnesium, predicts it would take 6 months
to normalize magnesium levels in a woman who is magnesium deficient with oral supplementation. The bottom line is that
transdermal magnesium therapy speeds up the process of nutrient repletion in much the same way as intravenous methods.


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Offline Counterpoints

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #981 on: 03/08/2008 17:55:42 »
Thanks for your great post Coreman.  Two things:
- How often are you getting psychotherapy?
- Judging from what you've written -- most improvement after exercise, food, etc. -- it seems this problem is closely linked to endorphin levels.

Martin:
Your addiction hypothesis certainly fits well with my experiences.  My symptoms feel very much like extreme withdrawal.
« Last Edit: 03/08/2008 18:08:44 by Counterpoints »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #982 on: 04/08/2008 01:35:10 »
COREMAN

Welcome to the POIS Forum! Your regimen is very interesting and this is very thoughtful of you to post on your first visit. Best wishes to you. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #983 on: 04/08/2008 01:37:30 »

Martin:
Your addiction hypothesis certainly fits well with my experiences.  My symptoms feel very much like extreme withdrawal.


Me too, Counterpoints. Someone else here also once said that they feel like they're still "in sex" during POIS. That rang true for me! And I do tend to become easily addicted/habituated to other things (e.g., caffeine) if I'm not extremely careful...and vigilant.
« Last Edit: 04/08/2008 01:48:01 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #984 on: 04/08/2008 01:44:32 »
The questionnaire is somewhat of an answer to that need.  Though these things take longer to get in motion than I had expected -- they usually end up depending on many, many, people.

Thanks b_jim, for your help organizing critical information here.


Thank you Counterpoints and B_Jim for bringing this Forum to a New Level!

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Offline Coreman

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #985 on: 04/08/2008 10:43:25 »
COUNTERPOINTS: Thanks for telling me about endorphine, it is very useful.

DEMOGRAFX:  Thank you for your kind reaction. I intend to provide only that kind of information which is based on my experiments and experience. We may put the pieces together.

TO EVERYBODY: 

Against fatigue: 500-1000 Mg Carnitine (also: L-Carnitine).
I tried several times, it often helps. (To empty stomach, 1 hour before a meal.) For me, it often eliminates the weakness of the body which occurs after an "action." Just an idea. Best wishes to everbody.   

Other Info: there were 2 months in my period of POIS when there were no  symptoms at all... After a success training. I was packed with self-confidence, power and constructive beliefs. I thought I could touch the sky.

COREMAN

Welcome to the POIS Forum! Your regimen is very interesting and this is very thoughtful of you to post on your first visit. Best wishes to you. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

Thanks for your great post Coreman.  Two things:
- How often are you getting psychotherapy?
- Judging from what you've written -- most improvement after exercise, food, etc. -- it seems this problem is closely linked to endorphin levels.


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #986 on: 04/08/2008 17:14:14 »
LEVITRA AND CIALIS

Some of you, like B_Jim, Counterpoints et al, who are more scientifically minded than me perhaps can explain this. As you know, Levitra has been a 75% cure for my POIS, so my psychiatrist suggested Cialis, which is similar to Levitra but longer acting, thinking that it may be a 100% POIS cure. So I tried Cialis but it was a "disaster". One of the worst 4-day POIS episodes of my life (in great part due to my high expectations being smashed).

Since the 2 drugs act similarly, does anyone have a hypothesis as to why Cialis was such a miserable failure? Perhaps if the differences can be understood, that might unlock another POIS Mystery Door!
« Last Edit: 04/08/2008 17:25:29 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #987 on: 04/08/2008 18:50:51 »
I suppose both work for erectile dysfunction in your case ?
I'll try to find a difference bewtween both but it seems even doctors don't know! (except duration).


Thanks, B_Jim! Yes, they both work for my ED. But if we can find out the differences between the two, maybe that will highlight what can work for POIS?

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Offline cookie87

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #988 on: 04/08/2008 22:02:13 »
I find posting this material to be a bit difficult to be honest.  Not really because of the sensitivity of the topic but rather because I'm usually compelled to chime in when the symptoms of the topic at hand are at their worse, so it is difficult to think and maintain a train of thought, but I must fight! I find the most distressing and disgusting feeling to be when I have an orgasm when I'm nowhere never "recovered" from the last one.  so essentially I'm "doubling up" on the symptoms and pretty much feel like an idiot afterwards for doing it again when I know exactly what is going to occur.  I made a vow to myself to stop masturbating, at least for a few weeks or try to see if I can go down to once or even every other week, but just cannot seem to do it.  I mentality that I shouldn't have to wait could be in play, but I must have a high libido or something because it really takes a lot to just skip a day for me.

The process is that I will usually masturbate before shower in the evening, but I can anytime in the day.  I will sometimes even do it as early as first thing in the morning, and in that case again at night because I sometimes just feel the routine before the shower would be incomplete.  I remember how in high school I used to stay up to 11:00pm, on weekends or days off maybe even past 1:00am... Now it is almost always around 9:30pm maybe 10:00pm I retire.  It's that god-awful "I just want to go to bed" feeling because I know I will not be able to get into much else, so I just "surrender" to it.  More often than not, I will lie awake with insomnia as well as lots of energy and therefore be restless... So I will try to get up and do something... But why? I can't enjoy for example, listening to music through headphones at the computer.  Used to love that in my late teens, and still do but I can only do it for so long before it's just "not fun anymore" for that night and have to retreat.  It's like a choir to do more than fun...  Keep in mind my insomnia is usually worse when I work during the day (have a very physical and outdoor job), even when I get the closing shift which can go up to 10:00pm.  Maybe the endorphans are still running wild?

Here's what the morning will consist of.  I wake up feeling very empty, sluggish, fatigued, pessimistic, angry, irritable, impatient...  Refreshed from a good night sleep?  heh, no.  Anything but, and I AT LEAST get 8 hours in.  I'm not yawning or anything at this point...  My appetite for breakfast in the morning has gone down in the last few years to.  I have an appetite for things like eggs, bacon and wonderful cooked breakfast, which is not always available of course, but almost no appetite for those things that are accessible and easy to serve yourself, like waffles, pancakes, Pop-Tarts, cereal of all types, donuts... Very annoying.

There is a lot more that I will add as I think of it, but also keep in mind in the meantime I am dealing with several different official diagnoses like depression, anxiety and a mild case of Asperger's Syndrome. I've had bad anxiety attacks for as long as I can remember, but as for the depression part of it I wonder how much of it may have to do with the POIS symptoms, both as a direct cause and just the frustration of dealing with it.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #989 on: 04/08/2008 23:34:18 »
Hey B_Jim  It's not magnesium sulphate, but magnesium chloride that I read about.

http://www.magnesiumforlife.com/mineraltherapy.shtml

"Dr. Norman Shealy has done studies on transdermal magnesium chloride mineral therapy where individuals sprayed a
solution of magnesium chloride over the entire body once daily for a month and did a 20 minute foot soak in magnesium
chloride also once daily. Dr. Shealy recruited 16 individuals with low intracellular magnesium levels; subjects had a baseline
Intracellular Magnesium Test documenting their deficiency and another post-Intracellular Magnesium Test after 1 month of
daily soaks and spraying were analyzed. The results: Twelve of sixteen patients, 75%, had significant improvements in
intracellular magnesium levels after only four weeks of foot soaking and skin spraying."


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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #990 on: 05/08/2008 01:50:11 »
B_Jim again--here's the exact article that compares mag. sulfate w mag. chloride.

http://www.magnesiumforlife.com/chloride_sulfate.shtml

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #991 on: 05/08/2008 23:09:09 »
Thank you Girlwind. I'll try betaine, i often wake up at 3 or 4am , and i think it's a problem with my digestion. If i eat very early in the evening i have more chance to sleep all night long. If i eat only carbohydrate in the evening, without protein then i feel very bad at 4am the next day, it's like an intoxication. Also recently i started to have frequent headaches, maybe a digestive origin .

B_Jim, the best magnesium supplement for me was magnesium gluconate (full dose caps or very small doses sublingual). Both were very effective (gave me energy)
With Magnesium chloride only the first pill was effective and then i started to feel bad with the next pills. I have had a serious episode of heart pounding fast and loud (i went to hospital for this) 5 minutes after taking magnesium chloride on an empty stomach !

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #992 on: 06/08/2008 00:57:38 »
Cookie, chastity is very possible, I am proof (except for occasional nocturnal emissions). If you want to seriously try it you have to remove any stimulating content from before your eyes, this includes seemingly small things like people kissing on TV shows. Contrary to how it might seem at times you can become chaste...and nothing explodes   [:D]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #993 on: 06/08/2008 01:03:23 »
...your experience with both drugs [Cialis and Levitra]is fantastic to try to understand POIS. But we probably need to find an expert to compare both.

But on the other hand, it's very strange that someone as Imre1 removed his symptoms with betablockers ("slow down" catecholamines) when other need to stimulate it . 

B_Jim, this is what my psychiatrist has written to me about our different chemical reactions from one person to another:

"The body is way too complicated to predict these drug responses.  For example, there are six SSRI's.  They all cause an immediate and powerful blockade of serotonin reuptake into nerve terminals but some people have no response to Prozac and do well with Zoloft and vice versa.  The reasons for this are poorly understood and usually ascribed to minor effects on other receptors- a weak explanation."

My feeling is that we are all doing amazingly well at progress here in this POIS Forum - in spite of
the bewildering array of individual physical reactions amongst us!
« Last Edit: 06/08/2008 01:11:13 by demografx »

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Offline Nick_B_85

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #994 on: 06/08/2008 03:42:43 »
Hello everyone. Add one more to the count of POIS sufferers.

My symptoms are very close to what Gonzo described. The earliest I remember experiencing POIS was at age 12. As I've gotten older the severity and duration have increased. These days complete recovery takes a full week.

When I was 14, in an orgasm-induced daze I ran my head into an iron beam; the resulting concussion and cracked skull have compounded the effect of POIS on my life.

I've noticed that many of the posters to the forum are either very articulate, or know English as a foreign language. I wonder whether this linguistic aptitude might have more to do with a  unique POIS mentality than the circumstances of our coming together?

Here are some points of similarity between me and some of the posters:
 - I was molested by a peer in early adolescence
 - I probably am a mild case of Asperger Syndrome

Cookie, chastity is very possible, I am proof (except for occasional nocturnal emissions). If you want to seriously try it you have to remove any stimulating content from before your eyes, this includes seemingly small things like people kissing on TV shows. Contrary to how it might seem at times you can become chaste...and nothing explodes   [:D]

As for me, I've gone from the "must have porn every 1-2 days" habit to a nearly porn-free life in about a year. These days my POIS cycles start every 7-12 days. I'll make a celibate yet! (If I were religious, I would certainly be in a monastery right now, the POIS has such an affect on my life.) 

By the way, does anyone else pronounce "POIS" in their mind as in the French language? (PWAH: it means "pea".)

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #995 on: 06/08/2008 04:51:13 »
Some of us (pois) have social phobia (how many i don't remember). Beta blockers can help for this. It's a first link.
Also : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_blocker
Beta blockers block the action of endogenous catecholamines (epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline) in particular), on β-adrenergic receptors, part of the sympathetic nervous system which mediates the fight or flight response.
(link with sympathetic, adrenals)

However a common side effect of beta blockers is fatigue (from my doc who didn't want to give this to me). I think it's not very good to play on heart rythm if you don't have heart problem (my personal opinion)

Demografx, I'd like to know if you have tried the antidepressant phenelzine among the others. It's one of the most effective for social phobia. It's a "last resort" antidepressant (potentially more side effects). I found very interesting what you have said about SSRI (prozac,zoloft ...) , it will be useful if i take these medications.

Hi Nick, i'm french but pronounce "poys" in my mind. Maybe always fighting against confusion make pois sufferers articulate ! (pois consequence)

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #996 on: 06/08/2008 18:54:54 »
Thank you Girlwind. I'll try betaine, i often wake up at 3 or 4am , and i think it's a problem with my digestion. If i eat
very early in the evening i have more chance to sleep all night long. If i eat only carbohydrate in the evening, without
protein then i feel very bad at 4am the next day, it's like an intoxication. Also recently i started to have frequent
headaches, maybe a digestive origin.

Martin88  I definitely feel better limiting sugar and carbs in my diet, with the exception being occasional fruit in
season. I take the HCl WITH my meals (and not before, or it gives me heartburn).  During the days when I had poor
digestion and malabsorbtion, along with the candida overgrowth, eating any carbs was disastrous, especially if they sat
in my stomach fermenting all night long. I would get horrible headaches that led to vomiting most times. But like I've
mentioned before, the HCl healed all that like magic--for me it was the key to improving my entire digestive system. 
I know there are some kind of lab tests to check if you have low HCl production. But for me it worked to just try it out
and see. I took the Twin Labs Betaine HCl--just one per meal and within a month's time, I noticed considerable im-
provement.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #997 on: 06/08/2008 19:03:24 »
B_Jim, the best magnesium supplement for me was magnesium gluconate (full dose caps or very small doses sublingual). Both were very effective (gave me energy)
With Magnesium chloride only the first pill was effective and then i started to feel bad with the next pills. I have had a serious episode of heart pounding fast and loud (i went to hospital for this) 5 minutes after taking magnesium chloride on an empty stomach !

HEY B_Jim The magnesium chloride that they are using in that study I sent you is not for oral, but transdermal use. I'm
going to try it  as soon as it comes in to the local health food store and let you know my experiences. The magnesium
gluconate is what I'm taking now, but I'm still deficient after four years of taking it every day. It movesssssss through my
system way too fast to be absorbed, if you know what I mean.   [:)]

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #998 on: 06/08/2008 21:18:11 »
Nick_B_85,

A hearty welcome to you and many thanks for posting your experiences. I'm sorry to hear of your compounding difficulties. I hope you gain much here, and you have certainly contributed much in your post.

By the way, in my mind I pronounce POIS as rhyming with "noise".

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #999 on: 06/08/2008 21:37:24 »

Demografx, I'd like to know if you have tried the antidepressant phenelzine among the others. It's one of the most effective for social phobia. It's a "last resort" antidepressant (potentially more side effects). I found very interesting what you have said about SSRI (prozac,zoloft ...) , it will be useful if i take these medications.


Nope. Haven't tried phenelzine. I do take Cymbalta, but what seems to work best for me are the ADD-type stimulants, which can become addictive. They do have a potential for abuse, so it's a wee bit scary. I do drink a lot of coffee along with the stimulants, probably not the healthiest thing. But all in all, it's good.
« Last Edit: 06/08/2008 21:39:23 by demografx »