[RhythmSpring]

Limejuice, is progesterone available without perscription? I see that progesterone cream is available online, but I wonder if that is enough to do anything. How much do you say you take before orgasm?

[Limejuice]

Creams are available OTS, but the dosage is difficult to compare to Px. For example I take 10mg but the cream dosage starts at like 200mg.

[Limejuice]

Thanks Demo!

[lauracostis]

I doubt getting pois every week is that safe either.

pois has damaged my body, doing heroin once a week is probably better for your body than doing pois once a week.

What damage have you seen, and irreversible?

I feel, aside from the regular symptoms that are transitory, that my body suffers in the joints and soft tissues. Initially swelling, but any joints that are used more often during POIS seem to be damaged beyond the POIS period, and I get the feeling, more permanently. Particularly old workout injuries (my case very old[]).

inflamation causes cardiovascular disease, it erodes the smooth lining of your blood vessels, then plaque has a nice rough base to accumulate on. i had a CRP of 10+ last time i was checked, thats not normal for a male of my age, who should have a CRP of 0. that is unless you dont mind dieing from a heart attack or something.

[daveman]

I doubt getting pois every week is that safe either.

pois has damaged my body, doing heroin once a week is probably better for your body than doing pois once a week.

What damage have you seen, and irreversible?

I feel, aside from the regular symptoms that are transitory, that my body suffers in the joints and soft tissues. Initially swelling, but any joints that are used more often during POIS seem to be damaged beyond the POIS period, and I get the feeling, more permanently. Particularly old workout injuries (my case very old[]).

inflamation causes cardiovascular disease, it erodes the smooth lining of your blood vessels, then plaque has a nice rough base to accumulate on. i had a CRP of 10+ last time i was checked, thats not normal for a male of my age, who should have a CRP of 0. that is unless you dont mind dieing from a heart attack or something.

Interesting information. CRP is an indicator of acute inflamation.

I remember, perhaps during my initial investigations of the prostate, everything was "normal", except the doc said that there was one high component, I don't actually remember what it was, but he said that it was an indicator of inflamation or infection, but that given that everything else measured OK, this indicator had little meaning! It was probably CRP!

Anyways, anything to do with inflamation, I'm adding as threads to follow for my immune system investigations. Thanks.

[pedr0vsky]

Progesterone is an anti inflammatory.
http://www.google.com/search?q=progesterone+anti+inflammatory&hl=en&start=0&sa=N

A simple search on google showed a lot of pages claiming that fact.
Isn't it possible that the effect on POIS is because of that?

[hardasnails]

instead of using progesterone one may look into possiblity of a TD pregenolone creame that once it hits the skin converts mainly in to 5 PD which is a metabolite of progesteorne.

Have you had proper hormone evaluation done such as
ft3 ft4 reverse t3,tsh, cortisol salvary, vitamin B-12, folate, fractional catecholamine plasma, total testosteorne , shbg, e2 e2 sensitive essay, cbc, cmp, ferritin?

When dealing with these issue one might want to start here then may further explore.

For some people POIS is basically depleting your CHI which is your life energy force sucking you dry totally.  I also was guilty of over indulging my self which I beleive depelted vitamin nutrients lowering my immune system opening me up to bacterial infections which can hide in different regions of the body the gut being the main one.  

Actually crp sensitive is the more accurate one. 
CRP does not pick up the hidden inflammation. 

Progesterone can be feminizing hormone if follows the estrogen pathway this is why pregenolone may be a better choice the body will choose were it goes to keep things in proper balance.

[demografx]

For some people POIS is basically depleting your CHI which is your life energy force sucking you dry totally.

There is absolutely no empirical, statistical or scientific evidence that "chi" and "life energy force" exists, apart from 'anecdotal' information, akin to hearsay.

If I sound just a little overly negative, it's because for many years I - and many others - chased "chi" and "vital life force energy" philosophies and their Eastern "treatments", such as that of Mantak Chia's semen-retention methods, herbs, and other assorted oddity "cures" for which there is no explanation and no labels on the bottles  [] - - - with a Big-Fat-Zero for results. Very sad experiences have been reported here and elsewhere a number of times.

Just in my case, if "chi" were true, I don't think my testosterone treatment + stimulants would be working. TRT + stimulants are hardly "spiritual"!

Sorry to be so hard, I know that you said "for some people"...but I just would like to see people avoiding the misery of chasing one's tail for as many years as I - and many others - have.

[daveman]

Actually crp sensitive is the more accurate one. 
CRP does not pick up the hidden inflammation. 

First welcome hardasnails! Thanks for the interesting feedback.

Could you go into a little more detail as to the first phrase please? I'd like to understand these kind of subtleties.

And on the second, why? Are they too subtle? Even chronic inflammation? Would POIS for instance fit into a category of hidden inflamation? Sure doesn't seem hidden []

[demografx]

Forcing Sleep

I experimented this morning with forcing sleep to fight POIS...and it worked great!

I know this sounds simplistic and naive, but just a little twist to the tried-and-true sleep method made a big difference for me today, so I wanted to report it.

Even after a long night's slumber, I awoke to a 2nd Day Zero in 3 days - predictably not feeling well. But I had an appointment and also wanted to read. The mind was racing somewhat.

But I thought I would experiment anyway to see if it would work, and it did!

I cancelled my appointment. I put aside the reading material. Not easy for me. And it took a long time to nod off (2 hours?), using a TM meditation technique of repeating the same mantra over and over, gently pushing aside "thoughts of the day".

Normally I would wait out the hours or the day and then take a nap, which would usually restore me to full force.

But those usual hours in activity would be "POIS-strenuous"...so why not feel better sooner rather than later?

Forcing the sleep was difficult, so next time I might even try some Benadryl, which was given to me in the hospital and makes sleep easier.

I also increase my dosage of testosterone and stimulants on Day Zero.

This now brings me closer to a 90% POIS-free experience more often than before.

It's been a year and a half on this successful treatment. And I have no doubt that this simple new "early sleep" addition will make it even better.

As I discussed with another forum member yesterday privately, immersing ourselves in this forum really helped us both tremendously. At first I resisted the group wisdom of being bloodtested hormonally, but I decided that my methods for 30+ years hadn't worked, so why not study hard all the posts written here and try what this forum suggests as it best applies to us?

Thanks, everyone, for helping to turn my life around!

[demografx]

hardasnails, are you the same "hardasnails1973" who posted here last year about "Dr Mariano"?

[demografx]

inflamation causes cardiovascular disease, it erodes the smooth lining of your blood vessels, then plaque has a nice rough base to accumulate on.

Laurac, this is amazing. I wonder if POIS contributed to my recent open heart surgery - for blocked arteries largely due to plaque buildup -  necessitating a quintuple bypass??

[demografx]

Progesterone is an anti inflammatory.
http://www.google.com/search?q=progesterone+anti+inflammatory&hl=en&start=0&sa=N

A simple search on google showed a lot of pages claiming that fact.
Isn't it possible that the effect on POIS is because of that?

Sure, it's possible. We're in the very early stages. We don't yet have sufficient evidence about progesterone-POIS-effectiveness.

[mellivora]

It seems one of possible diagnostic for this problem is 24 hours catecholamines dosage in urine.

So, why not such a test in-Pois to show a supposed abnormal catecholamines activity ?

B_Jim, would it be possible for us to test catecholamines activity when we go for other tests? For example, when I see my urologist - and my nephrologist - they always collect urine samples.

Can it be blood tested? (All my hormonal testing is done via bloodwork).

Can they request this from their laboratory or would it be a special diagnostic?

I've had a 24 hour catecholamines test. The hospital gave me a 5 litre capacity plastic container. Basically you just collect your urine over a 24 hour period at home (or wherever if you want to carry the container around with you!) and then take it back for analysis. I did two samples - one without POIS symptoms and one with POIS symptoms. I had some hopes that the results might show something but they came back normal.

Of course this doesn't mean that someone else shouldn't also try having a catecholamines test. If you want one then I'd encourage you to have one. We need more than one result, in fact as many as possible,  before we dismiss things.

[mellivora]

I had a short synacthen test a while ago and have realised I never found out the result (which probably means the result was normal as usually my doc would get in touch if it wasn't). I'll make an appointment to check the result soon. Has anyone else had this test? It tests adrenal function - mainly cortisol production I think.

The short synacthen test came back normal

[demografx]

I've had a 24 hour catecholamines test.

Mellivora, many thanks for testing and reporting!!

[prism]

I - and many others - chased "chi" and "vital life force energy" philosophies.. with a Big-Fat-Zero for results. Very sad experiences have been reported here

using a TM meditation technique

I thought you were a fan of Taoism and their philosophy?
(you were really unhappy the other day when I questioned Taoist philosophy).

[demografx]

daveyboy, no way!

You must be thinking of someone else.  []

Send me the post where you think I said that!

[Dave23]

For some people POIS is basically depleting your CHI which is your life energy force sucking you dry totally.

There is absolutely no empirical, statistical or scientific evidence that "chi" and "life energy force" exists, apart from 'anecdotal' information, akin to hearsay.

If I sound just a little overly negative, it's because for many years I - and many others - chased "chi" and "vital life force energy" philosophies and their Eastern "treatments", such as that of Mantak Chia's semen-retention methods, herbs, and other assorted oddity "cures" for which there is no explanation and no labels on the bottles  [] - - - with a Big-Fat-Zero for results. Very sad experiences have been reported here and elsewhere a number of times.

Just in my case, if "chi" were true, I don't think my testosterone treatment + stimulants would be working. TRT + stimulants are hardly "spiritual"!

Sorry to be so hard, I know that you said "for some people"...but I just would like to see people avoiding the misery of chasing one's tail for as many years as I - and many others - have.

Demo, hopefully you can give Hans a chance as he is actually the right hand
man assistant for Dr Overbeck in PA dealing with
people everyday with hormone imbalances, methylation, heavy metal
and many other health issues. I believe also Hans is also working on his own medical
license or may already have it ...

Ive seen many people on different forums like Meso, AM, Dr Marianos, Dr Crislers and the
sexual exhaustion forums who have reported being cured of many various health issues
inc POIS/SE from Hans protocols when their own docs/endos etc couldnt find out the
cause never mind treating it successfully.

[daveman]

daveyboy, no way!

You must be thinking of someone else.  []

Send me the post where you think I said that!

Anyways, I don't think there's just one philosofy, and there's gotta be about 200 ways to meditate!

Not too long ago, I was having trouble sleeping because I was having a bad day 0. I felt like hell. So I went into the pain. It's a directed focus type meditation where you encompass your "pain", and transform it.

The effect even surprised me, as it's not the first time I use this technique. The first step is to separate the parts. The physical, emotional and mental, focusing on the physical first. But I had barely made the separation and the emotional fear/tension stood out like a sore thumb. This fear/tension is a natural response to pain, also something that I'm accustomed to seeing, but in this case, it was much more prevelant than I thought. Knowing that the fear/tension is a knee jerk response, and that POIS is something that I have to live with and am in the process of resolving, I could let it go right away. It desolved. But what was left is what really surprised me!

I more fully focused on the energy of the sensations. This is where I usually "package" the pain energy. Pain energy is usually quite localized, so it's easy to begin localizing, characterizing and packaging it. Sometimes is glows, sometimes it pulses, sometimes it is sparkly or jagged, and always seems to have a center. This time, it was like a moonlight breeze out in the hills, like where I used to go camping. Strange, it was all around, and quite expansive but not aggressive. Perhaps it was the contrast, of the absence of fear, I don't really know. I was perhaps half dreaming, I'm sure.

I woke up at something like 6:00 AM, very relaxed, and rested. My wife asked why I was so chipper! And my POIS was very light for the rest of the cycle.