[EDS]

Did anyone had a Testosterone treatment that failed? Up to now Demo and Green seem have succes with T-treatment.

As mentioned a few times before, I am at least a third one that has been helped by TRT. I don't yet have the high success percentage of Demo, but I am hopeful!

Great news from Dr. Waldinger... I may get my trip to the Netherlands yet!!

[Vandemolen3]

Today I went to the acupuncturist. She said she can't help because my kidney energy was ok?

[daveman]

My urologist said he did every research possible. And he said he turned me inside out. And that sometimes I can have the feeling that I have an UTI, but in the urine there's nothing to see. He said it might be something with the pelvic, but there's not much known about that.

Are you familiar with the excellent book : A Headache In the Pelvis?" http://www.amazon.com/Headache-Pelvis-Understanding-Treatment-Prostatitis/dp/0972775528  That might be very helpful.

For myself I had lots of UTIs and it stopped when I realized that a diet rich in oxalic acid was causing it. I stopped eating soy products and high oxalate foods like rhubarb, parsley, watercress, beet leaves , chard etc. Very occasionally I have the symptoms again and every time I trace it back to a oxalic acid rich food I inadvertently ate. The urethra inflammation really did aggravate the POIS. I am very happy this is basically gone. If you are interested in that topic I can give you more info. I had an urethroscopy back then and my urologist just could not find anything in my urine neither.  He could not help. I am now 99% UTI free.

Pablo

Wow, and those foods seem so healthy. The body is quite the complex mechanism.

Interesting your first reference.

Here, they're talking more and more about male menopause, and cures using "T" and others. Given that I'm getting up there, I should check it out. Although, I had never thought of this as male menopause, as I imagined that came with erectile problems, low libido etc. But if it IS the cause great, if not, I can use it as a spring-board.

It made me think, maybe POIS is a little like premature graying.... in some, male menopause can come early and we suffer the effects of POIS. Of course that doesn't explain those who have lived with POIS forever. But it must be a very similar mechanism, and if an old fart can be treated, then why not a young whipper-snapper, given that all of the tests are done.

I know it's true that the tests often look OK, but if the view to premature menopause or menopause related failure is taken, perhaps the results can be looked at differently, as they have been here.

A certain percentage of hormone distribution might be normal for an old guy but shouldn't be for a younger one... although the values are in range..

Who knows, just thinking out loud.

[martin88]

Certainly not to undermine Dr.Waldinger's research, but,
I feel we should also contact Dr. David Resnick...

THIS IS EXCELLENT! WE NEED TO EXPLORE EVERY AVENUE POSSIBLE!

I strongly second this idea. Dr. David Resnick may very well hold the key for POIS.

His name sounds familiar. Have we contacted him?

Martin, do you recall?

No I don't, but I'd wait the new paper to contact people. After this paper we'll have more credibility and perhaps more specific questions so the chances to have a reply will be increased, just my opinion.

[Porke]

Quick Update:

Hey guys, been following this thread for over a year now.

I have made a few posts, and have tried this and that as suggested by other members. I have also tried a few of my own drugs / supplements without much success.

So far the only thing that will mask the symptoms for a while is a NSAID and an anti-histamine. I can feel the POIS hangover is still there, however, I dont feel quite as sh*t.

Anyways, I have made an appointment with an Endo for tomorrow. Hes apparently quite good, and it took 6-7 weeks for a booking (being a new patient)

I am not going specifically for POIS, but for my adrenal fatigue / burnout symptoms that I have been battling with for just as long.

I believe, at least in my case, that these two are related. So, expecting to do quite a few blood tests, and lets see if we pick up anything out of the ordinary. Who knows, it might be low testosterone as with Demogrfx.

Will post back when I have news.
Ciao

Endo seemed very good. Not a typical western medical approach where its black and white, "youre in range and therefore you are fine" sort of attitude. Described quite a few cases where peoples hormones are 'sub clinicial' and not optimal. Going for blood tests tomorrow - will have results by next week Mon / Tue. Said that low T could be a problem, however says that this is a lifelong treatment of replacement and should be a last ditch effort. Other factors can influence the bodies hormone especially diet and lifestyle etc. (This coming from a doctor was quite surprising to hear - we all know western doctors are walking pharmacies )

Testosterone, Cortisol, Vitamin D, Prolactin, LH, FSH, T3, T4, TSH, E2.

[nova]

 I know that you have succes with T-treatment. And now Green too.

If I ever have T-treatment then I would prefer patches too. No injections for me, haha.

3 testosterone therapy successes: me, Green, and Animus (I also think there were more)

Animus said he prefers injections!

I also have had about a 80% drop in POIS symptoms by using T-patches.

[CertainlyPOIS]

 I know that you have succes with T-treatment. And now Green too.

If I ever have T-treatment then I would prefer patches too. No injections for me, haha.

3 testosterone therapy successes: me, Green, and Animus (I also think there were more)

Animus said he prefers injections!

I also have had about a 80% drop in POIS symptoms by using T-patches.

was your t lower end of normal or was it below normal.

[demografx]

As mentioned a few times before, I am at least a third one that has been helped by TRT. 

EDS, (and nova!), sorry I forgot! I plead POIS-memory []

[rock27]

Today I went to the acupuncturist. She said she can't help because my kidney energy was ok?

Did you go in-pois or outta?

[pauliebaby61]

Hello everyone,
I am very excited about Dr waldingers upcoming articles in the yet unknown medical journal. I wish you all the very best, and hope that ALL my fellow suffers find 100% relief, or at the very least are able to live a fairly normal life.

I also want to say that recently, after going 1yr with out O, I finally caved,but in an attempt to thwart off POIS symptoms, I injected myself with an extra lg dose of T and applied progesterone cream to my body, and took 60mg of Hydrocortisone[20 mg 3x in 24 hrs]. Amazingly, I pulled out of the symptoms in 2 days instead of 2 weeks!!!....Im not cured, but I know we are all on to something here!
Now understand, I am under treatment from my Dr., and am taking all  Meds under his guidance, so please do not go out and do anything unless you are under the supervision of a Dr. I just want you guys to have hope that it seems this issue seems to be steeped in hormonal issues, and getting the correct balance. Dr Waldingers report will be an very interesting read...cannot wait!!! Best to you all!

[pauliebaby61]

I want to add also that I have been on 20mg of Hydrocortisone under DR's care for 10yrs now, due to weak adrenals[hypo adrenalism]. It never helped with pois symptoms, but he told me that in periods of stress[sex is very strssful and hard on the adrenals, which also interestingly make Testosterone] I should increase the dosage and then cut back to 20mg gradually.

I have also been on injectable T for about 2yrs now, and other than increasing my libido, it did not, by itself, relieve my pois symptoms.My regular dose is .375 2x a week.I injected .600 the day after O, along with the other meds.

Using progesterone cream was suggested on here by Demo I believe, so I tried that too.Thank you Demo!
Whatever the cause, I am confident there is a answer here in this hormone soup.We are going to figure this thing out fellas!

[demografx]

Pauliebaby, thank you for sharing your story! And I appreciate your caveats:

Please, everyone, be careful when you're thinking of following anyone's POIS treatment here. Do it only under careful medical supervision!

[Green]

There seems to be consistency for significant POIS symptom reduction with testosterone supplementation.

Could POIS be a burn out of androgen or other hormonal receptors? So when orgasm occurs where normally testosterone affinity is needed in the conversion of hormones, there is an abundance and as a result the body goes into to overdrive and possibly converts too much of other hormones which releases an unwanted chemical cocktail...just my thoughts. I say this because there are people out there who have low testosterone and do not experience any POIS after orgasm also.

I've experimented with POIS episodes on different dosages of testosterone, using single ester testosterone enanthate. The experiment was carried out after being on testosterone @ 100mg P/w for 1 1/2 months. Orgasm was 2nd day after testosterone injection and weeks wait inbetween different doses.

75mg test - POIS symptoms are still quite violent
125mg test - symptoms are much less in magnitude and last 3 days
250mg test - Apart from digestion issues barely noticeable POIS

I have e2 under control but 250mg isn't TRT dosage, I'm confident if I stick to 100-125mg of test, with a good diet, exercise and other hormones such as Cortisol, Prolactin, Insulin, GH, e2, Thyroid etc... under control, and careful ejaculation frequency with some abstinence, I have some confidence I can eradicate POIS out of my life fully and continue with a normal life within limits.

I'm posting this on day 1, where as normally I'd be in a debilated, deathly state, which I don't have words of enough magnitude to describe, that's how much difference testosterone has made in my case.

[pyropeach]

TESTOSTERONE-POIS SUCCESSES

Green
EDS
Nova
Demografx
Animus
Pauliebaby61

(B_Jim is checking others)

Do you guys primarily have physical symptoms or neurological ones like intense brain fog? 

[Green]

TESTOSTERONE-POIS SUCCESSES

Green
EDS
Nova
Demografx
Animus
Pauliebaby61

(B_Jim is checking others)

If you guys don't mind, please post nominal testosterone values prior to TRT

Testosterone 7.5nmol/l ~ 215ng/dl
Free Testosterone 8.2 pg/ml

Both out of reference rages.

SHBG - 15 nmol/l

[Green]

Do you guys primarily have physical symptoms or neurological ones like intense brain fog? 

At the height of POIS, when I was youger with a high sex drive, but still limited sexual release, I have had almost all the discussed and described POIS symptoms, brain fog along with intense fatigue rank quite high as some of the worst symptoms.

[demografx]

Do you guys primarily have physical symptoms or neurological ones like intense brain fog? 

brain fog along with intense fatigue rank quite high as some of the worst symptoms.

ditto

[demografx]

I have also been on injectable T for about 2yrs now, and other than increasing my libido, it did not, by itself, relieve my pois symptoms.

Pauliebaby, I might not have read your post carefully enough. Should I remove you from the list?

[Vandemolen3]

Today I went to the acupuncturist. She said she can't help because my kidney energy was ok?

Did you go in-pois or outta?

Out of POIS. Last week I was so stupid to have 2 O.'s in a week. With 1 O. a week I can manage things. But with two I have more symptoms like stabbing in the penis, and IBS. So today I was finally out of POIS. I didn't want to have an O. before the appointment. I also didn't expect that she would say after 1 appointment she couldn't help me. But I don't mind. It's ok. I gave it a change. I knew the change was very small that it could relief my symptoms.

[nova]

 I know that you have succes with T-treatment. And now Green too.

If I ever have T-treatment then I would prefer patches too. No injections for me, haha.

3 testosterone therapy successes: me, Green, and Animus (I also think there were more)

Animus said he prefers injections!

I also have had about a 80% drop in POIS symptoms by using T-patches.

was your t lower end of normal or was it below normal.

My T-levels were on the very low side of the normal range.  One thing to keep in mind is that male T-levels are 30 or 40% below what they were 60 years ago (environmental reasons?), so that low side of normal in 2010 wouldbe off the charts 60 years ago.