[Animus]

From Demo, Your T/P Guinea Pig!

This is really exciting. I just now received a voicemail from my endocrinologist: after weeks of reading up on T/P (Testosterone + Progesterone), male contraceptives, etc. he finally approved it!!

He will start me with 5mg of Norethindrone, titrating me up till it is determined how much I need -  plus the 15mg daily of testosterone - in the hopes of raising my POIS cure from 80% to 100%!

Wow! Another possible major change in my life of 30+ years' POIS agony!

Norethindrone info:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000278/

As always, do not take this as a recommendation for YOU. Keep looking till you find a good medical team - and fire them when they don't serve you!

Thank you soooooooooo much, Doctor G!!

Fantastic news, demo! Good luck with the new therapy.

[demografx]

Thanks, Animus!

[demografx]

I actually do agree with CC about getting a sperm count, I think it would tell us why this is working.  of course, this would cost money if it is not covered by your insurance.

Laurac, do you know what specific test should I ask for?

I am not totally sure, but i would just ask if you can get a sperm count.  someone can do it

One before taking progesterone, then one afterwards?

Thanks for all your guidance, Laurac!!

[demografx]

Demo, it seems that doing sperm counts is common and routine for men in fertility clinics. Many couples who do not conceive in a reasonable amount of time may go to get a sperm count.

Thanks again! This is an education for me!

As long as I don't have to count my own sperm! []

[daveman]

Demo, it seems that doing sperm counts is common and routine for men in fertility clinics. Many couples who do not conceive in a reasonable amount of time may go to get a sperm count.

Thanks again! This is an education for me!

As long as I don't have to count my own sperm! []

Don't you hate it when you get to like, 37,138,217 and have to start over from the begining because the phone rang!

[demografx]

Here's a little bit of POIS humor to start your week off: according to this article, "Doctors have known of [POIS] for decades"  []

http://www.news-worthy.info/post-orgasmic-illness-syndrome-some-men-may-be-allergic-to-their-own-semen/10909/

[Habibou]

I don't know if it is there we can post, but I will do here for the moment !  [] Tell me where I should post it on the New Forum, please.

I just called ImVision, the Switzerland Laboratory which "practices Intra Lymphatic Injections".
The doctor which caught the phone gave me his mail address :     m.steiner@imvision-therapeutics.com
He was really kind to answer me through the phone, and I really appreciated it !  []

I didn't say anything about our condition, but I told him I would send him a mail with Dr Waldinger's Papers...
He told me that this procedure is new and it would take 4 years to develop it !  []
There is a study in Canada in which they test those intralymphatic injections.
For the moment, they only treat Cat's allergy with Intralymphatic Injections and are seeking for others allergies now.

It would be great we also contact the Dutch Laboratory which practices Intralymphatic Injections to get more and more information about it.

The Intralymphatic injections cure from allergies in 8 weeks, I would be glad to test it for me in the first place and it could be a fast cure for our condition if it works !  []

[daveman]

Here's a little bit of POIS humor to start your week off: according to this article, "Doctors have known of [POIS] for decades"  []

http://www.news-worthy.info/post-orgasmic-illness-syndrome-some-men-may-be-allergic-to-their-own-semen/10909/

But it's not a bad summary. If doctors have known for some time though, I sure haven't met them!! Maybe since 2002 is this "some time"!

[daveman]

Habibou,

Thanks, I just looked at SMF and that's great where you put it.

Don't worry, the changes are coming, that should clear that up.

[daveman]

About hyposensitisation and skin test, I need to understand the dosage. If someone can help me...

skin-test :
semen diluted with saline 0.9% to a concentration of 1:40,000 . Injection of 0.05ml of each solution.

edit : I didn't know the other word for puncture/sting was censured .

If  you say skinprick, all in one word, it gets through.

The scales are complcated! It's a very heavy dilution, if you had a cc of semen (blob a tad over 0,5 inch diameter), you'd have to put it into 40 liters (10.6 US Gal) of water to get the dilution. Then take only a drop of that mixture measuring a bit over 4 mm (5/32") in diameter and inject it a couple of mm below the skin.

When mixing highly diluted mixtures, higher precision can be achieved (when using crude instruments of measure) with greater quantities. But 10 gal of water for a small glob of semen isn't very practical especially considering sterility factors and contamination. The lower the quantities, the harder it is to be precise with the smaller volume component, especially if that can have inconsistencies in it's makeup (as does semen).

Another way of doing it is starting with maybe 1 cc for 1 liter (for instance) and then a second dilution of 1 liter for 40. Or 0.1 cc for 1 liter and then 1 liter of that mixture for 4 of water.

All the time considering stringent sterility factors.

I think labs do it using consecutive dilutions, and of course have instruments of higher precision. But I'm not talking about processes nor recommend doing it yourself. More than anything I am just giving a perspective of scales with rough measures.

[daveman]

Well, I'm faily sure it means 1/40000 and not 1/40 with a 1000th of resolution. Again I THINK, that this kind of resolution wouldn't be required in a mixture of 1/40. Maybe for some special chemical process it could be that important to have such a fine resoution for a 1 in 40 dilution.

Anyways starting with 1 in 40000 is safer than 1 in 40!

As far as water, yes, I imagine it would be best not to use tap water either. And they mention saline... I imagine one can probably even buy medical saline. Although 40 liters....?

I wonder how important the saline content actually is...... probably just the normal dilution base.

Hopefully there are more who are medically knowledgable here.

[daveman]

I agree 1:40.000 means 1 for 40 liters so as you said it's an heavy dilution. But if it's correct it means only 1cc of pure sperm in our blood can trigger extrem Pois and maybe the death. In other words, we have TNT in testies  []

More seriously, we need to write a mail to dr Waldinger to confirm this point and to have more details about the saline factor and how they make the dilution. And what about my idea to freeze lot of samples of correct preparation for the repeted injections.

Yes, I understand it can be done, but they say that fresh sperm is better, and more effective. Potentially meaning that it would take longer with frozen.

Van says his arm hurt like the dickens afterwards. But couldn't say if it caused POIS symptoms, or not, because it was done with fresh and he was already in POIS.

[Vandemolen3]

But the good point is when you made it seriously 1 time maybe you can freeze the liquid for the other injections. ( 112 injections for a year )

It's better to use fresh semen istead of frozen semen. That's what they told me.

Frozen semen has the advantage that 1 ejaculation is enough for a lot of injections. But when they told me that fresh semen is better, I go for that. Because I hope that after a few months there will be less POIS-symptoms.

[Vandemolen3]

Yes, I understand it can be done, but they say that fresh sperm is better, and more effective. Potentially meaning that it would take longer with frozen.

Van says his arm hurt like the dickens afterwards. But couldn't say if it caused POIS symptoms, or not, because it was done with fresh and he was already in POIS.

Normally with an injection you don't get full POIS. But only light POIS-symptoms.
Yes there are local symptoms on the arm. But as you said I already was in POIS because of the fresh semen.

[lauracostis]

to do dilutions you use a Micropipette, they can measure microliters( 1 millionth of a litter).  I have done dilutions like that in the microbiology lab with bacteria before.  the 1:40000 can be easily done with small amounts of saline by doing a few dilutions with the micropipette.  I think I could do the dilution with just 3 or 4 test tubes maximum.
 "this 40 litters talk can be forgotten about"
The part about semen not being soluble in water could be solved.  I found out that after 20 minutes out side the body, semen under goes a process called Liquefaction.

"The liquefaction is the process when the gel formed by proteins from the seminal vesicles is broken up and the semen becomes more liquid. It normally takes less than 20 minutes for the sample to change from a thick gel into a liquid."   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_count

this may make it possible to dilute in saline.     

[lauracostis]

I don't know if it is there we can post, but I will do here for the moment !  [] Tell me where I should post it on the New Forum, please.

I just called ImVision, the Switzerland Laboratory which "practices Intra Lymphatic Injections".
The doctor which caught the phone gave me his mail address :     m.steiner@imvision-therapeutics.com
He was really kind to answer me through the phone, and I really appreciated it !  []

I didn't say anything about our condition, but I told him I would send him a mail with Dr Waldinger's Papers...
He told me that this procedure is new and it would take 4 years to develop it !  []
There is a study in Canada in which they test those intralymphatic injections.
For the moment, they only treat Cat's allergy with Intralymphatic Injections and are seeking for others allergies now.

It would be great we also contact the Dutch Laboratory which practices Intralymphatic Injections to get more and more information about it.

The Intralymphatic injections cure from allergies in 8 weeks, I would be glad to test it for me in the first place and it could be a fast cure for our condition if it works !  []

I agree we should be actively pursuing intralymphatic injections as a possible treatment.
The conventional method seems almost implausible because of the amount of injections you have to do. If you can even find a MD to do the desensitization, you may have to fly to get to your 80 appointments a year; then you have to pay the MD for the 80 appointments a year.  This seems about a 50,000-100,000$ dollar a year cost.  not too mention you would need to take a total of about three months off from work intermittently to attend your appointments. "if you live by a MD that you can drive to, in a country with universal health care, you may be alright."
If I have to do it the conventional way, I will do it myself. 

[CertainlyPOIS]

to do dilutions you use a Micropipette, they can measure microliters( 1 millionth of a litter).  I have done dilutions like that in the microbiology lab with bacteria before.  the 1:40000 can be easily done with small amounts of saline by doing a few dilutions with the micropipette.  I think I could do the dilution with just 3 or 4 test tubes maximum.
 "this 40 litters talk can be forgotten about"
The part about semen not being soluble in water could be solved.  I found out that after 20 minutes out side the body, semen under goes a process called Liquefaction.

"The liquefaction is the process when the gel formed by proteins from the seminal vesicles is broken up and the semen becomes more liquid. It normally takes less than 20 minutes for the sample to change from a thick gel into a liquid."   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_count

this may make it possible to dilute in saline.     

not

But the good point is when you made it seriously 1 time maybe you can freeze the liquid for the other injections. ( 112 injections for a year )

It's better to use fresh semen istead of frozen semen. That's what they told me.

Frozen semen has the advantage that 1 ejaculation is enough for a lot of injections. But when they told me that fresh semen is better, I go for that. Because I hope that after a few months there will be less POIS-symptoms.

just came back from dr brewtra he to emphsize fresh sperm for the test.
i think it is the liquification process breaks down the protein that are necessary to react.

[CertainlyPOIS]

I don't know if it is there we can post, but I will do here for the moment !  [] Tell me where I should post it on the New Forum, please.

I just called ImVision, the Switzerland Laboratory which "practices Intra Lymphatic Injections".
The doctor which caught the phone gave me his mail address :     m.steiner@imvision-therapeutics.com
He was really kind to answer me through the phone, and I really appreciated it !  []

I didn't say anything about our condition, but I told him I would send him a mail with Dr Waldinger's Papers...
He told me that this procedure is new and it would take 4 years to develop it !  []
There is a study in Canada in which they test those intralymphatic injections.
For the moment, they only treat Cat's allergy with Intralymphatic Injections and are seeking for others allergies now.

It would be great we also contact the Dutch Laboratory which practices Intralymphatic Injections to get more and more information about it.

The Intralymphatic injections cure from allergies in 8 weeks, I would be glad to test it for me in the first place and it could be a fast cure for our condition if it works !  []

I agree we should be actively pursuing intralymphatic injections as a possible treatment.
The conventional method seems almost implausible because of the amount of injections you have to do. If you can even find a MD to do the desensitization, you may have to fly to get to your 80 appointments a year; then you have to pay the MD for the 80 appointments a year.  This seems about a 50,000-100,000$ dollar a year cost.  not too mention you would need to take a total of about three months off from work intermittently to attend your appointments. "if you live by a MD that you can drive to, in a country with universal health care, you may be alright."
If I have to do it the conventional way, I will do it myself. 

you might as well start now according to dr nguyen men reacting to their own sperm is to new and need more reasearch before most doctors will atempt to pefrom immunotherapy. Dr brewtra added to the ufourtunte news when he said he dosent have the equipments to start dessensitiation.

i say go for it you prolly wont get any anaphylaxis(am not a doctor) i was injected witout any dilution and two hours later the wheel was gone and all i had to suffer was burning sensation.

i will be updating with specifics tommorow

[Habibou]

Yes, The intra lymphatic injections procedure seems definitively the best way both economically and safely/quickly, for our conditions in the long term, that's why i try to find a laboratory which is in willing to pratice it for us in a safe condition...

I guess the UCLA laboratory someone found on the forum is this one : http://www.ilitherapy.com/  ?

Today, I will call the french association of allergies specialist /immunologist, will update!
thank you  []

[lauracostis]

Yes, The intra lymphatic injections procedure seems definitively the best way both economically and safely/quickly, for our conditions in the long term, that's why i try to find a laboratory which is in willing to pratice it for us in a safe condition...

I guess the UCLA laboratory someone found on the forum is this one : http://www.ilitherapy.com/  ?

Today, I will call the french association of allergies specialist /immunologist, will update!
thank you  []

I sent Dr. Juillard from UCLA an email a couple weeks ago, I did not get a response.