[daveman]

In all seriousness, as I told Pyropeach privately, I find this very exciting. I think we're on to something. Dave, I'd like to see us continue...but NOT, as you say, to go round in circles!

I'm of course biased about these subjects, having firsthand experience and massive confusion over the preceding issues for 35 years! But I now feel there is some meaning to all this, not just because of my experience, but at least with a half-dozen other POIS cases here - just with testosterone alone!

Outline and chart next?

I just want to clarify one thing. For me, it's not an issue if the result ends up NOT being auto-immune. I don't care.

I believe one thing others believe other things.

I just want to stop going round and round. I want to stop believing and start knowing!

That's all. No easy task I know!

[daveman]

Anyways...I can surely attest to experiencing no symptoms as soon as I feel like my sperm supply has fully regenerated...

I can attest to that feeling too.

Well it sure seems like it. But you can't take your sperm count in your head! LOL

I was not taking my sperm count in my head. I was sensing a legitimate biological feeling, which I had grown attuned to and aware of. Perhaps the cause of that feeling is unknown, and "illusory" as demo has suggested. However, it is legitimate, and has a legitimate cause.

Reflecting on my earlier posts, I hedged a little more than I should have about "subjective" and "feeling".

After 35 years of this, it's way more than "illusory".

When I "feel" semen is low (early regeneration), the ejaculate is....LOW VOLUME.

When I "feel" semen is high (late stage regen), the ejaculate is.....HIGH VOLUME.

And no, I didn't use a measuring cup. Just trust me, ok? []

The above data have been independently verified by Bernie L. Madoff, Butner Correctional Facility, NC.

No way!! Bernie (the snake) Madoff. Hey this guy knows his "stuff". if you know what I mean!

[daveman]

There are many things we can look into that can clarify the doubt and turn belief into knowledge, without committing to one side or the other.

From there the dice will fall as they may.

[Animus]

No, I am completely POIS free....

It requires maintenance. The surgeries removed all but the prostate- so it's still possible to create some seminal fluid. What I'm doing is shrinking the prostate as much as possible with medication. I find if I go off these medications, I will have some mild return of POIS symptoms- but much milder and less threatening than I had originally. While on these prostate meds I am completely symptom free, and have dry ejaculations.

Animus (great job on the show btw!), or anybody else -
It seems clear that the prostate causes at least some of your POIS issues, albeit maybe only 10-20%.  Would you not imagine that Flomax or Avodart be helpful for some others of us to take?  If the goal is reducing seminal fluid, these medications do that, correct?  

EDIT: I'm seeing now that a few of you tried Silodosin back in February and March.  I'm going back and reading up on that now, which should answer my question.  Ya'll are always 2 steps ahead of me!  []

Hi B_Daniel,
Yes. Avodart, Flomax are prescription. Saw Palmetto is very effective too. I use it, and several others here have too with positive results. They all shrink and relax the prostate.
Silodosin is very interesting.

[Animus]

[Let's] determine what exactly in semen could potentially cause the allergic reaction because I think that may yield a valuable breakthrough.

I'm with you on that 100%, so I hope I didn't go overboard on worrying about competing theories. []

I'm with you on that too...!

[Animus]

Can anyone answer these questions? does anyone else wonder them too?

1. Are there any other known allergies that last for 7 days after exposure and have similar symptoms?
2. Why don't women with semen allergies react in the same way as men with POIS?

I'm not saying you could answer them, but maybe speculate...
Seeing the wheal size photographs are convincing in support of the allergy theory.

[daveman]

Can anyone answer these questions? does anyone else wonder them too?

1. Are there any other known allergies that last for 7 days after exposure and have similar symptoms?
2. Why don't women with semen allergies react in the same way as men with POIS?

I'm not saying you could answer them, but maybe speculate...
Seeing the wheal size photographs are convincing in support of the allergy theory.

You know, even though I feel that this is auto-immune, Dr. Waldingers term, "allergy" has never sit right with me. Perhaps to put it in the type I, type IV category, "allergy" worked better. But the real difference is in the mediation methodology. IgE for type I and T-cell mediated for the type IV.

T-Cell mediation is bloodstream born.

How long does a cold last? How long does the flu last?

It's though it was a virus attack. And for the little I know there's a similar mediation mechanism, as though the system misinterpreted sperm as a virus. Type IV takes a while to "engage". The response is similar for a virus. A complex "incubation period". Invader propagates, and multiplies until the antibody appears, protiens are generated which convert T-Cells to defend, T-Cells produce more protiens, and start trapping the invader. Takes time to build a force strong enough, slowly overcome, etc. etc.

May be way off, and there are many differences, viruses multiply, sperm doesn't. The virus antibody is much more scarce. Sperm anitbody isn't.

But it IS strange... flu and colds last about the same amount of time as POIS. I just had one, it comes on, peaks and dies out with almost the same cycletimes.

Point 2. For some reason, women don't go beyond a type I reaction. All of their symptoms are type I. Must be something to do with the differences in the defenses in the blood barrier.


Don't know, maybe even perhaps the term "allergy" IS more correct, but it's always felt more like auto-immune. But then, what does gut feel have to do with it... [] [] []

[Vandemolen3]

Can anyone answer these questions? does anyone else wonder them too?

1. Are there any other known allergies that last for 7 days after exposure and have similar symptoms?
2. Why don't women with semen allergies react in the same way as men with POIS?

I'm not saying you could answer them, but maybe speculate...
Seeing the wheal size photographs are convincing in support of the allergy theory.

You can't compare the female body with the male body. The male urethra and the vas deferens are not the same as oviduct.
And women with semen allergy have a few symptoms that are the same as POIS.

[Vandemolen3]

Twitter-account of dr. Ves Dimov. Maybe it's an idea that someone of us starts a POIS-account on Twitter. With news and trying to find more patients and doctors on Twitter. I am not so into Twitter. I found a message of dr. Dimov through Google.


http://twitter.com/#!/DrVes

His website:
http://www.vesdimov.com

[demografx]

Maybe it's an idea that someone of us starts a POIS-account on Twitter. With news and trying to find more patients and doctors on Twitter.

Van, great idea!!

I am not so into Twitter.

I am not, either. Is there a POIS-Twitter-er here willing to volunteer?

[Vandemolen3]

I saw Dr. Guay a few days ago.  For those who are unaware, he is among the most respected medical researchers in Sexual Medicine.  I began speaking about the letter I sent him, and he didn't recall reading it.  So, I began discussing POIS, at that point, he stood up, told me to stay where I was because he had just read a paper on it.  He left, and returned with Dr. Waldinger's paper.  He said by coincidence he had read it that morning.  He went through it with me and suggested that I try Allegra (60mg) 1 hr. before an orgasm.  He also stated that I would need to go see Dr. Waldinger himself to receive the therapy because it would require a grant to do it in the US.  Finally, he said he would contact Dr. Irwin Goldstein, editor of the Journal of Sexual Medicine (the person responsible for accepting Dr. Waldinger's paper), and ask him his suggestion for treating this illness here in the US.  Dr. Guay promised to get back to me and also to cc my endo at JH to keep her in the loop.

I look forward to his response and promise to share it with all of you.  Also, I'd like to thank you all for your willingness to share your experiences.  I am feeling good at the moment after hitting the gym again after 3 weeks.  So, I am unwilling to test the Allegra, although the libido is definitely high.  I also ordered Mind Body & Spirit (rhodiola rosea) and Energy Reserves based upon recommendations on this forum.  I know that I'll eventually have an O, but I wanted your feedback on Allegra.  Also, having seen Animus on TLC, I concluded that this illness must be "triggered" by something.  Animus seemed to be healthy, and after one night, he began to have POIS.  That is, he was NOT allergic to his sperm until that night.   

Looking forward to your feedback and thanks for your time.

It's great that dr. Guay is willing to listen to you. I don't think Allegra will help, but I think it is wise to show your best side to the dr. Try it and the tell the dr. that it didn't help.
Welcome on the forum.

[Animus]

Can anyone answer these questions? does anyone else wonder them too?

1. Are there any other known allergies that last for 7 days after exposure and have similar symptoms?
2. Why don't women with semen allergies react in the same way as men with POIS?

I'm not saying you could answer them, but maybe speculate...
Seeing the wheal size photographs are convincing in support of the allergy theory.

You can't compare the female body with the male body. The male urethra and the vas deferens are not the same as oviduct.
And women with semen allergy have a few symptoms that are the same as POIS.

Van,
It would seem you can compare the male and female body when discussing allergies. In every other allergy, both men and women react with the same symptoms- and the same treatments. The allergy is defined by the blood exposure to the allergen, I think, and not defined by the anatomy.

Semen allergy in women is defined by burning, swelling, redness, and inflammation. Are any of these similar to POIS? Which are the symptoms that are the same?

Thanks for discussing.

[Vandemolen3]

I have the first link up posted below as well as a torrent link for those familiar with how to use it, I'll be posting a few mirrors as well.  If anybody has any issues viewing the video feel free to PM me any questions, i would be happy to help

Download Link 1
Download Link 2
Stream Link
Torrent Link

As for the video itself i really appreciate "Frank" taking time to do this, i'm sure at the very least it will lead others suffering from POIS to this website and further progression on treatments.  Unfortunately i personally found the surgery on the video a little hard to swallow and am not sure i could ever bring myself to do that even if it means living a better life.

I just watched the video. Great Frank! I hope you are still seeing your date.

[Animus]

  Also, having seen Animus on TLC, I concluded that this illness must be "triggered" by something.  Animus seemed to be healthy, and after one night, he began to have POIS.  That is, he was NOT allergic to his sperm until that night.   

Hi Pharaoh,
I just wanted to make a quick clarification that video took a liberty there in saying that it happened overnight. It actually happened over the course of three months that I developed the illness. It was caused I believe by an herbal male enhancement supplement I was taking. It is true I was completely healthy before taking the supplements.
Thank you.

[Vandemolen3]

Is this a new article or is it a review of the publication of dr. Waldinger? It's from Nature. Written by Suzanne J. Farley. 

http://www.nature.com/nrurol/journal/v8/n3/full/nrurol.2011.17.html

If it's new? Does anyone has an account?

[demografx]

Dr. Waldinger's term, "allergy" has never sat right with me.

Nope, me neither.

[demografx]

Is this a new article or is it a review of the publication of dr. Waldinger? It's from Nature. Written by Suzanne J. Farley. 

http://www.nature.com/nrurol/journal/v8/n3/full/nrurol.2011.17.html

If it's new? Does anyone has an account?

Great find, Van! Nature is a very prestigious publication. This will boost POIS credibility significantly.

[Vandemolen3]

Van,
It would seem you can compare the male and female body when discussing allergies. In every other allergy, both men and women react with the same symptoms- and the same treatments. The allergy is defined by the blood exposure to the allergen, I think, and not defined by the anatomy.

Semen allergy in women is defined by burning, swelling, redness, and inflammation. Are any of these similar to POIS? Which are the symptoms that are the same?

Thanks for discussing.

Inflammation and redness (I have this) are two symptoms which are the same. And not every woman has the same symptoms.
Another thing is that semen is inside the body of the men. There is a difference if the semen is still in the prostate (arousal) or in the urethra and the vas deferens. So the place where the semen is, is important.

[demografx]

I have the first link up posted below as well as a torrent link for those familiar with how to use it, I'll be posting a few mirrors as well.  If anybody has any issues viewing the video feel free to PM me any questions, i would be happy to help

Download Link 1
Download Link 2
Stream Link
Torrent Link

As for the video itself i really appreciate "Frank" taking time to do this, i'm sure at the very least it will lead others suffering from POIS to this website and further progression on treatments.  Unfortunately i personally found the surgery on the video a little hard to swallow and am not sure i could ever bring myself to do that even if it means living a better life.

Spence, this is the link I currently use as a welcome Message to newcomers. Do you think it's the best one to use?
http://www.fileserve.com/file/cUtJa9R/TITLE01.mp4

[Vandemolen3]

I didn't finish to translate the 2nd study of dr. Waldinger but it seems there is a new very important and new concept here :

http://www.nature.com/nrurol/journal/v8/n3/full/nrurol.2011.17.html

Sexual dysfunction: Postorgasmic illness syndrome

Suzanne J. Farley
Abstract

New evidence supports the hypothesis that postorgasmic illness syndrome (POIS) in men involves a hyper-reactive immune response of the mucosal epithelium that lines the urinary tract to seminal fluid.The term 'POIS' was coined 9 years ago by the Netherlands-based duo Marcel Waldinger and Dave Schweitzer.

The whole article is not free.

mucosal epithelium :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucosa-associated_lymphoid_tissue

It's a lymphatic tissue. It's the open door. It explains how semen goes from urinary way into immune system by passing through this tissue.

B_Jim mentioned it earlier.
And Rock27 bought it.

I just bought this article, but it is just a summary of the dr Waldinger research. There isn't any news in it.