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QuoteHe said that the reason why some of us find relief [with niacin] is because the flush runs out the histamines in the body.Yes, yes, yes he said it ! QuoteI think because the allergy attack is too big. And antihistamines we can take are pills. The only antishistamines that could bring the symptoms down is an injection through the urethra. I talked with my doctor about this, and he said that it could be a solution. But the only problem is, that there is no such thing.Interresting argument of "local inflammation". But some guys have good results with claritin or others. Vandermolen, I took the numbers you gave to make a graphic. Once again, if you can have other numbers (like volume injected ) or other protocole details, i'm interrested. But thank you very much and congratulations for all.
He said that the reason why some of us find relief [with niacin] is because the flush runs out the histamines in the body.
I think because the allergy attack is too big. And antihistamines we can take are pills. The only antishistamines that could bring the symptoms down is an injection through the urethra. I talked with my doctor about this, and he said that it could be a solution. But the only problem is, that there is no such thing.
It is impressive that just some seconds/minutes following an orgasm, i can feel my hands getting extremely dry. Is this normal? I also can see my facial skin flushing after having an orgasm (i think this is normal), but afterwards, it gets very dry (this may not be so normal). Maybe is the blood leaving the skin?
Quote from: Quasar on 20/12/2011 18:34:57It is impressive that just some seconds/minutes following an orgasm, i can feel my hands getting extremely dry. Is this normal? I also can see my facial skin flushing after having an orgasm (i think this is normal), but afterwards, it gets very dry (this may not be so normal). Maybe is the blood leaving the skin? I am soooo glad to hear this! (Very few others reported this over 4 years).My fingertips dry up, leaving me with a terrible feeling I can't explain.My local "King of Dermatology" (as he liked to call himself) had no explanation for my postorgasmic dermatitis.He didn't even believe me, so I had to rush in to see him after sex!!! (no, not with him Quasar, you mentioned blood leaving the skin. I always thought it had to do with "nerve endings".This is why we need research!!
Quote from: daveman on 14/12/2011 17:38:07Quote from: badgerstripe on 14/12/2011 00:46:01Thanks Vincent Marcus and BJim for your commentsI may try Clarytin or Benadryl if the current approach I have started since joining this forum doesn't work. I tried Clarytin a couple of years ago for pollen allergy and it relieved all the nasal and sinus symptoms but the brain fog that i get with pollen allergy and drowsiness persisted.Since 5 days ago i have taken 3 X 610mg Fenugreek daily along with 100mg of Niacin daily in the morning which causes a flush. I have taken Niacin periodically over the years for pollen allergy and it did seem to make a positive difference. I have taken 15mg Zinc daily for quite a long time as it has noticeably shortened the recovery period from POIS.It may well be too early to assess the effects of the Fenugreek and regular Niacin but I had an O last night and have to say I felt the worst POIS symptoms today than i have for a while, especially the brain fog and poor memory. Could this be because i took the Niacin half an hour AFTER the O rather than before? I'm going to persevere with the Niacin but intend to take it half an hour BEFORE and see what happens.On a more general note I am relieved to have found people who understand this debilitating condition. I get really fed up with it, for years having to schedule my life around "O" days - nothing important that requires a sharp mind or physical energy the day after or even two days after in some cases. I usually need a week to recover, there are times when the self discipline required for this is too much and I go for it twice or more a week but this means i spend life in a pretty foggy condition and know that my work suffers and my mood is generally negative.Meeting others through this forum helps me feel less weird so thanks for all the experiences and knowledge people have shared Yes, it is VITAL that the niacin is taken before the orgasm! Hopefully with a flush. I have had results without a flush, but to a lesser degree. Day 1 and 2 are always cleared, but without the flush, days 3 to 5 can appear and/or be worse.I previously had 9 day sessions. Now, wit flush, maybe half a day! And NO cognitive symptoms or NO day 1 - 2 POIS yuck!Great news!5 days ago I took 100mg of Niacin and had a flush about an hour or so before an O. I had NO POIS symptoms at all afterwards! No Brainfog, muscle weakness, exhaustion etcetera. This very rarely happens at all. I can think of no other variable that has changed from previously, apart from the Fenugreek which i started taking about ten days ago. If this were to be the answer to my particular form of POIS I would be very pleased.This is in stark contrast to how I felt a couple of weeks ago when I took the Niacin AFTER the O when I had very bad symptoms. Since my "no POIS O" I had another O. This was 2 days after the previous one which is unusually quick for me, I would normally leave it 3 days at the very least so as not to incapacitate myself. This time i took the Niacin just 20 minutes before the O as i had mislaid the tablets. It was interesting to me that this time i had some POIS symptoms - brainfog, memory problems, itchy eyes, muscle weakness but they were quite mild and had passed within 24 hours. I wonder if these symptoms were present because i was still experiencing some flushing while the O happened and the full quota of histamine was not available? That seems to make sense from what others have said about Niacin and Histamine. Alternatively 2 days may have been too soon to have another O after the previous one.Further to kurtosis's post, I read Carl Pfeiffer's book about nutritional treatment of mental illness 20 years ago as a friend of mine's aunt was involved in research and i was involved professionally in the mental health field. I identified with the symptoms of Histadelia, especially the allergies - Histadelia is associated with HIGH histamine levels. (I understand that there seems to be scientific controversy about the very existence of histadelia).
Quote from: badgerstripe on 14/12/2011 00:46:01Thanks Vincent Marcus and BJim for your commentsI may try Clarytin or Benadryl if the current approach I have started since joining this forum doesn't work. I tried Clarytin a couple of years ago for pollen allergy and it relieved all the nasal and sinus symptoms but the brain fog that i get with pollen allergy and drowsiness persisted.Since 5 days ago i have taken 3 X 610mg Fenugreek daily along with 100mg of Niacin daily in the morning which causes a flush. I have taken Niacin periodically over the years for pollen allergy and it did seem to make a positive difference. I have taken 15mg Zinc daily for quite a long time as it has noticeably shortened the recovery period from POIS.It may well be too early to assess the effects of the Fenugreek and regular Niacin but I had an O last night and have to say I felt the worst POIS symptoms today than i have for a while, especially the brain fog and poor memory. Could this be because i took the Niacin half an hour AFTER the O rather than before? I'm going to persevere with the Niacin but intend to take it half an hour BEFORE and see what happens.On a more general note I am relieved to have found people who understand this debilitating condition. I get really fed up with it, for years having to schedule my life around "O" days - nothing important that requires a sharp mind or physical energy the day after or even two days after in some cases. I usually need a week to recover, there are times when the self discipline required for this is too much and I go for it twice or more a week but this means i spend life in a pretty foggy condition and know that my work suffers and my mood is generally negative.Meeting others through this forum helps me feel less weird so thanks for all the experiences and knowledge people have shared Yes, it is VITAL that the niacin is taken before the orgasm! Hopefully with a flush. I have had results without a flush, but to a lesser degree. Day 1 and 2 are always cleared, but without the flush, days 3 to 5 can appear and/or be worse.I previously had 9 day sessions. Now, wit flush, maybe half a day! And NO cognitive symptoms or NO day 1 - 2 POIS yuck!
Thanks Vincent Marcus and BJim for your commentsI may try Clarytin or Benadryl if the current approach I have started since joining this forum doesn't work. I tried Clarytin a couple of years ago for pollen allergy and it relieved all the nasal and sinus symptoms but the brain fog that i get with pollen allergy and drowsiness persisted.Since 5 days ago i have taken 3 X 610mg Fenugreek daily along with 100mg of Niacin daily in the morning which causes a flush. I have taken Niacin periodically over the years for pollen allergy and it did seem to make a positive difference. I have taken 15mg Zinc daily for quite a long time as it has noticeably shortened the recovery period from POIS.It may well be too early to assess the effects of the Fenugreek and regular Niacin but I had an O last night and have to say I felt the worst POIS symptoms today than i have for a while, especially the brain fog and poor memory. Could this be because i took the Niacin half an hour AFTER the O rather than before? I'm going to persevere with the Niacin but intend to take it half an hour BEFORE and see what happens.On a more general note I am relieved to have found people who understand this debilitating condition. I get really fed up with it, for years having to schedule my life around "O" days - nothing important that requires a sharp mind or physical energy the day after or even two days after in some cases. I usually need a week to recover, there are times when the self discipline required for this is too much and I go for it twice or more a week but this means i spend life in a pretty foggy condition and know that my work suffers and my mood is generally negative.Meeting others through this forum helps me feel less weird so thanks for all the experiences and knowledge people have shared
Quote from: badgerstripe on 19/12/2011 23:03:25Quote from: daveman on 14/12/2011 17:38:07Quote from: badgerstripe on 14/12/2011 00:46:01Thanks Vincent Marcus and BJim for your commentsI may try Clarytin or Benadryl if the current approach I have started since joining this forum doesn't work. I tried Clarytin a couple of years ago for pollen allergy and it relieved all the nasal and sinus symptoms but the brain fog that i get with pollen allergy and drowsiness persisted.Since 5 days ago i have taken 3 X 610mg Fenugreek daily along with 100mg of Niacin daily in the morning which causes a flush. I have taken Niacin periodically over the years for pollen allergy and it did seem to make a positive difference. I have taken 15mg Zinc daily for quite a long time as it has noticeably shortened the recovery period from POIS.It may well be too early to assess the effects of the Fenugreek and regular Niacin but I had an O last night and have to say I felt the worst POIS symptoms today than i have for a while, especially the brain fog and poor memory. Could this be because i took the Niacin half an hour AFTER the O rather than before? I'm going to persevere with the Niacin but intend to take it half an hour BEFORE and see what happens.On a more general note I am relieved to have found people who understand this debilitating condition. I get really fed up with it, for years having to schedule my life around "O" days - nothing important that requires a sharp mind or physical energy the day after or even two days after in some cases. I usually need a week to recover, there are times when the self discipline required for this is too much and I go for it twice or more a week but this means i spend life in a pretty foggy condition and know that my work suffers and my mood is generally negative.Meeting others through this forum helps me feel less weird so thanks for all the experiences and knowledge people have shared Yes, it is VITAL that the niacin is taken before the orgasm! Hopefully with a flush. I have had results without a flush, but to a lesser degree. Day 1 and 2 are always cleared, but without the flush, days 3 to 5 can appear and/or be worse.I previously had 9 day sessions. Now, wit flush, maybe half a day! And NO cognitive symptoms or NO day 1 - 2 POIS yuck!Great news!5 days ago I took 100mg of Niacin and had a flush about an hour or so before an O. I had NO POIS symptoms at all afterwards! No Brainfog, muscle weakness, exhaustion etcetera. This very rarely happens at all. I can think of no other variable that has changed from previously, apart from the Fenugreek which i started taking about ten days ago. If this were to be the answer to my particular form of POIS I would be very pleased.This is in stark contrast to how I felt a couple of weeks ago when I took the Niacin AFTER the O when I had very bad symptoms. Since my "no POIS O" I had another O. This was 2 days after the previous one which is unusually quick for me, I would normally leave it 3 days at the very least so as not to incapacitate myself. This time i took the Niacin just 20 minutes before the O as i had mislaid the tablets. It was interesting to me that this time i had some POIS symptoms - brainfog, memory problems, itchy eyes, muscle weakness but they were quite mild and had passed within 24 hours. I wonder if these symptoms were present because i was still experiencing some flushing while the O happened and the full quota of histamine was not available? That seems to make sense from what others have said about Niacin and Histamine. Alternatively 2 days may have been too soon to have another O after the previous one.Further to kurtosis's post, I read Carl Pfeiffer's book about nutritional treatment of mental illness 20 years ago as a friend of mine's aunt was involved in research and i was involved professionally in the mental health field. I identified with the symptoms of Histadelia, especially the allergies - Histadelia is associated with HIGH histamine levels. (I understand that there seems to be scientific controversy about the very existence of histadelia). It's cool. We can both get better by using treatments deemed medically ineffective for illnesses that don't exist At this stage, I'm beyond caring what the established medical community thinks about illnesses such as histadelia and pyroluria. If my getting better was dependent on changing the attitudes of big pharma and "official medicine" to orthomolecular treatments then I'd just give up now. All I know is the niacin + the pyroluric supplementations are working wonders for me. Obviously POIS needs further study but managing the problem asap is important for everybody suffering from this. People trying different solutions for 20 years are in a better position to evaluate whether something is working than somebody who considers themselves a professional skeptic yet will cite papers with flawed methodologies to further their agenda. Just saying, sometimes it pays to suspend your disbelief
does anyone know if type IV allergies are histamine related? I could only find articles about type I and histamine.
Tried to post a few times yesterday but the forum had problems. Not to worry. I have only observed 1 strong allergic reaction to my sperm in many years and that could have been my diet that day which had lots of niacin, garlic and curry. Long story I have a range of allergies but a severe allergic reaction to my sperm on my skin isn't one of them (like another poster, I've tested the past few weeks) so I've started to think of the allergies as being related to an overall condition of which the POIS lethargy/fatigue symptoms are only one part. I tried discussing this with different GPs and a few years back I ended up doing one session with a GP who was interested in holistic health care. They weren't recommending homeopathy (which I have an intellectual aversion to, not trying to offend anybody but that's just how it is) but they did suggest I might have a condition known as pyroluria evidenced by a range of symptoms including light sensitivity, inability to tan, lots of white specs on my nails etc. For whatever reasons, I ignored this diagnosis at the time. However, when I read the famous "niacin" post on poiscenter I remembered pyroluria and did some reading, including linus pauling's work on orthomolecular medicine. The reason I'm mentioning all this is that over the past 3 weeks I've had 4 O's with minimal symptoms and the past few days I've actually felt energetic. Feels a bit odd tbh. The difference is 150 mg of niacin every morning (occasionally 2 50 mg if I haven't flushed with 150) and 2 tablets of ZMA every night. ZMA is Zinc, Magnesium and b6. I take a good bit of vit-c also (~2g / day) and some fish oil with extra DHA and EPO (high in GLA). These are the kinds of supplements that are recommended for pyroluria. Well, I feel pretty good. I started to feel better when I noticed I had started to recall my dreams again. After that I noticed I was becoming more productive in work. This is interesting as many health practitioners dismiss much of orthomolecular medicine and would deny there's any such thing as pyroluria. All I know is that I've had a range of problems which started in mid puberty and coincided with increased frequency of O and 2 months spent recovering from what was described as e-coli poisoning but could have been something else. I've often wondered over the years what effect that had as I don't remember serious digestive problems before then. So if anyone else has these symptoms then perhaps they should add GLA, b6, magnesium and zinc supplementation to their diet. My symptoms included lots of white spots on heavily ridged finger and toe nails, digestive discomfort, anxiety, signs of hyperacusis, frequent stitches in my side when I ran as a child, cold hands & feet, paler skin than family members, tiredness, achievement driven by adrenalin then nervous exhaustion, crowded teeth, anxiety, blood relatives with depression or schizoid illnesses, leg tremors & sudden jerky movements, poor dream recall, irritability and memory issues. I was treated for depression with SSRI's and they brought some relief but didn't address any of the underlying cognitive issues. I'm guessing this is the same for other POIS sufferers who have had depression? Perhaps the 2 things are related.
Oddly enough, niacin should create a rush of both as far as I can figure out. Who was it who suggested that the Niacin basically runs out the histamine and prostaglandin which is found in several places in the body, including seminal fluid?
Quote from: kurtosis on 18/12/2011 13:58:15Tried to post a few times yesterday but the forum had problems. Not to worry. I have only observed 1 strong allergic reaction to my sperm in many years and that could have been my diet that day which had lots of niacin, garlic and curry. Long story I have a range of allergies but a severe allergic reaction to my sperm on my skin isn't one of them (like another poster, I've tested the past few weeks) so I've started to think of the allergies as being related to an overall condition of which the POIS lethargy/fatigue symptoms are only one part. I tried discussing this with different GPs and a few years back I ended up doing one session with a GP who was interested in holistic health care. They weren't recommending homeopathy (which I have an intellectual aversion to, not trying to offend anybody but that's just how it is) but they did suggest I might have a condition known as pyroluria evidenced by a range of symptoms including light sensitivity, inability to tan, lots of white specs on my nails etc. For whatever reasons, I ignored this diagnosis at the time. However, when I read the famous "niacin" post on poiscenter I remembered pyroluria and did some reading, including linus pauling's work on orthomolecular medicine. The reason I'm mentioning all this is that over the past 3 weeks I've had 4 O's with minimal symptoms and the past few days I've actually felt energetic. Feels a bit odd tbh. The difference is 150 mg of niacin every morning (occasionally 2 50 mg if I haven't flushed with 150) and 2 tablets of ZMA every night. ZMA is Zinc, Magnesium and b6. I take a good bit of vit-c also (~2g / day) and some fish oil with extra DHA and EPO (high in GLA). These are the kinds of supplements that are recommended for pyroluria. Well, I feel pretty good. I started to feel better when I noticed I had started to recall my dreams again. After that I noticed I was becoming more productive in work. This is interesting as many health practitioners dismiss much of orthomolecular medicine and would deny there's any such thing as pyroluria. All I know is that I've had a range of problems which started in mid puberty and coincided with increased frequency of O and 2 months spent recovering from what was described as e-coli poisoning but could have been something else. I've often wondered over the years what effect that had as I don't remember serious digestive problems before then. So if anyone else has these symptoms then perhaps they should add GLA, b6, magnesium and zinc supplementation to their diet. My symptoms included lots of white spots on heavily ridged finger and toe nails, digestive discomfort, anxiety, signs of hyperacusis, frequent stitches in my side when I ran as a child, cold hands & feet, paler skin than family members, tiredness, achievement driven by adrenalin then nervous exhaustion, crowded teeth, anxiety, blood relatives with depression or schizoid illnesses, leg tremors & sudden jerky movements, poor dream recall, irritability and memory issues. I was treated for depression with SSRI's and they brought some relief but didn't address any of the underlying cognitive issues. I'm guessing this is the same for other POIS sufferers who have had depression? Perhaps the 2 things are related. KurtosisI pretty much could have written your post with the exception of the e-coli poisoning and schizoid relatives bits. I am currently on pyroluria treatment since mid July. I was tested and showed a moderatly high score. I'm a disappointed actually. I was going to wait till a few more months before posting on here in relation to pyroluria. Supposidly the treatment can take up to 12 mths to be fully effective. For the first 9 weeks on the program I felt worse. Very tired. I had to take time off work. though I started to get run down just prior to this, so it may have just been a coicidence.After that it seemed to have a more positive change for me though nothing startling. I had slightly better cognition and better dreams + recall, but in terms of improving my sleep or preventing brain fog after an O, it has helped just a little, not to any significant degree to make me want to come on here and inform everyone they got to get tested. I used to be quite anxious when I was younger and it pretty much disappeared over the past 8 yrs but in the past 2 mths my anxiety has come back and I have even had periods of feeling sad, so it seems it is stirring things up, but not like I had hoped. I am continuing on with it and just hope that I was going through some sort of detox phase (methionine is part of the treatment) and that it proves to be a great thing for me going forward.
Quote from: kurtosis on 21/12/2011 20:46:36Oddly enough, niacin should create a rush of both as far as I can figure out. Who was it who suggested that the Niacin basically runs out the histamine and prostaglandin which is found in several places in the body, including seminal fluid? I've noticed that if I don't take quite enough niacin, I still get great releif the first two days, but the "type IV" reaction on days 2 to 4 comes through. That actually surprised me because I had thought that the "type I" was a necesary precursor to the "type IV".
I've noticed that if I don't take quite enough niacin, I still get great releif the first two days, but the "type IV" reaction on days 2 to 4 comes through. That actually surprised me because I had thought that the "type I" was a necesary precursor to the "type IV".
I am back at the turn of the tide. I come with good news. Desensitization plan works for me. I have 40-50% less symptoms. I used to have 4 days of POIS. Now it is 2 days. And sometimes only 1 day. I began with a dillution of 1/10.000. Then 1/1000, 1/200, 1/70, 1/50, 1/30, 1/15. And today it was 1/5. The good news is that the max was 1/20. Now there was a meeting with allergists in The Netherlands. They said the dillution can be lower. Now the max is 1/2. Almost pure semen. When I went from 1/50 to 1/30 I had pain in my arms for 6 weeks. And I had a red mark on my arm and under my armpit. I thought it was blood-poisoning, because at another hospital an intern took some blood from my arm and she couldn't do it with 1 shot. But the doctor said this was just the reaction of the desensitization. Last time I had no reaction at all from the injection, no little red mark. So that's why today we went to 1/5. And today my arm really hurts again. The other good news is that the Dutch health insurance are willing to pay for their clients. So that's why a few allergists are willing to do the desensitization. Next week there will be a test of 2 patients of 2 different allergists at the clinic where I go. So hopefully all the POIS-patients in The Netherlands can be helped in 2012 immediately!
Vandemolen3 -- welcome back! It's really good to see you once again on the forum.And it's great to hear about your progress. Who's your doctor (who is the physician giving you the injections)? What's his name?StefQuote from: Vandemolen3 on 19/12/2011 22:24:15I am back at the turn of the tide. I come with good news. Desensitization plan works for me. I have 40-50% less symptoms. I used to have 4 days of POIS. Now it is 2 days. And sometimes only 1 day. I began with a dillution of 1/10.000. Then 1/1000, 1/200, 1/70, 1/50, 1/30, 1/15. And today it was 1/5. The good news is that the max was 1/20. Now there was a meeting with allergists in The Netherlands. They said the dillution can be lower. Now the max is 1/2. Almost pure semen. When I went from 1/50 to 1/30 I had pain in my arms for 6 weeks. And I had a red mark on my arm and under my armpit. I thought it was blood-poisoning, because at another hospital an intern took some blood from my arm and she couldn't do it with 1 shot. But the doctor said this was just the reaction of the desensitization. Last time I had no reaction at all from the injection, no little red mark. So that's why today we went to 1/5. And today my arm really hurts again. The other good news is that the Dutch health insurance are willing to pay for their clients. So that's why a few allergists are willing to do the desensitization. Next week there will be a test of 2 patients of 2 different allergists at the clinic where I go. So hopefully all the POIS-patients in The Netherlands can be helped in 2012 immediately!