[martin88]

Re. the fish oil, I'm not convinced that it's just about getting large amounts of EPA and DHA in our diets. Salmon is undoubtedly effective but some expensive fish oils with very high amounts of epa and dha per capsule have less effect for me than cheaper cod liver oil and krill oil, which is expensive but contains less EPA / DHA. There's something else at play here which seems to effect how easily and quickly the omega 3 can be used by our brains. This is not obvious from the cursory chemical analysis details shown on most supplements.

Kurtosis, thank you for bringing your experience with supplements. Did you try a fish oil with approximately 2gr DHA and 400mg EPA (same as in one serving of salmon)? DHA and EPA compete with each other so it's sometimes better to take them separately. It's explained here: http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T408369.html
In the same page they reported a study saying 1.8g/day of DHA increases insulin sensitivity.
Fenugreek and garlic act on insulin sensitivity as well.
Of course salmon contains a lot of other nutrients acting alone or together, it's not necessarily DHA the effective ingredient.

[jivetalk]

First, If I take a multi-vitamin with "the works", it makes me worse, often much worse.

Daveman, I found the exact Same thing years ago when I was just randomly taking vitamins for POIS (which I didn't know was POIS at the time). I ended up feeling absolutely terrible.

Re: Haven't posted in awhile so wanted to give a quick update on my Niacin. I am continually taking Niacin before O (300mg) and am finding it still beneficial, usually roughly in the order of 70-80% plus or minus 20% - Meaning sometimes it can be less, and sometimes can be close to 100% effective.

[daveman]

First, If I take a multi-vitamin with "the works", it makes me worse, often much worse.

Daveman, I found the exact Same thing years ago when I was just randomly taking vitamins for POIS (which I didn't know was POIS at the time). I ended up feeling absolutely terrible.

Re: Haven't posted in awhile so wanted to give a quick update on my Niacin. I am continually taking Niacin before O (300mg) and am finding it still beneficial, usually roughly in the order of 70-80% plus or minus 20% - Meaning sometimes it can be less, and sometimes can be close to 100% effective.

Has 300 mg been pretty normal for you. And that gives you a moderate flush?

Each one seems to have their levels, and the flush is sort of the guideline. 300 would have me pretty fried! 

[demografx]

Boring as it seems, I wanted to share my continuing good luck with forced-nap/sleep-with-2-Benadryl. Yesterday lasted several hours and "cured" my current POIS. (Testosterone is still 80% of my own personal and successful treatment for POIS).

[POISon]

I see a lot of people on here mentioning how niacin has helped them.I had both positive and negative effects with it,but I eventually had to quit do t the negative side effects.I used to take 5 hour energy drinks all the time,and noticed that  niacin was listed as an ingredient. I felt those drinks were very helpful in giving me energy after an O as well helping clear the brain fog. 5 hour energy was great for a while until I noticed after a year of taking it I was getting dots which looked like acne,but only smaller all around my face. It was so bad it was leading to scarring.Figured out the repeated niacin flushes were causing these bumps Guess it has to do with to Rosacea. Anyways(except for permanent scarring) that stopped as soon as I stopped taking them. So warning to people with sensitivity to rosacea when taking niacin. I've read that niacin is more dangerous to the liver than other vitamins so that's also something to be cautious about.

I haven't read yet of anyone taking Acetyl-L-Carnitine,but I have been very pleased after taking it.I was taking it lieu of creatine which was giving me bad side effects for more energetic workouts and was surprised to find  it is helping me tremendously with brain fog and my attention disorders which are made far worse after having an O. My memory is horrible for my age and this supplement is also helping me with that better than any supplement I have taken and I've probably taken hundreds. I'm hoping the effects last since I have only been on this supplement for about 2 months,but so far life and my ability to handle an O have been much easier. I take it with Alpha Lipoic Acid and Biotin which seem to form some sort of synergy in helping Acetyl-L- Carnitine perform its magic better.

[prister]

So, is the cure for POIS found?
What is the best medication for it till now?

[kurtosis]

Re. the fish oil, I'm not convinced that it's just about getting large amounts of EPA and DHA in our diets. Salmon is undoubtedly effective but some expensive fish oils with very high amounts of epa and dha per capsule have less effect for me than cheaper cod liver oil and krill oil, which is expensive but contains less EPA / DHA. There's something else at play here which seems to effect how easily and quickly the omega 3 can be used by our brains. This is not obvious from the cursory chemical analysis details shown on most supplements.

Kurtosis, thank you for bringing your experience with supplements. Did you try a fish oil with approximately 2gr DHA and 400mg EPA (same as in one serving of salmon)? DHA and EPA compete with each other so it's sometimes better to take them separately. It's explained here: http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T408369.html
In the same page they reported a study saying 1.8g/day of DHA increases insulin sensitivity.
Fenugreek and garlic act on insulin sensitivity as well.
Of course salmon contains a lot of other nutrients acting alone or together, it's not necessarily DHA the effective ingredient.

I've tried high strength fish oils with approximately a 3:1 ratio of DHA to EPA and I took about 35 ml / day giving about 1.6g of Omega 3 / day. They had a benefit but the Krill oil seems to be working better. I'm now down to taking

- 50mg niacin every day with an extra 100 every 2nd day,
- my Quest multi-vit and
- 1.5g of krill oil / day
- On top of that I take about 3g of Vitamin C and my ZMA every second night.

If I have an O I also take some chlorella & spirulina (one powder supplement).

I have minimal POIS symptoms anymore. I actually feel happy as I've been getting incrementally better since I started taking niacin and then figured out vit c would improve its effectiveness.

Prior to that I'd been going downhill for almost a decade, the lost years

I've stopped taking the other fish oil and lecithin as the krill oil which has less Omega 3 (about 20% of what I previously took) seems to be more effective and works best by itself. So it's not just volume of EPA & DHA. I can even start to believe that those claiming krill oil has an noticeable effect on Adult ADHD as  it's in phospholipid form and hence better absorbed into cells as required. There has to be some reason why much smaller quantities appear more effective (for me anyway). And then there's astaxanthin of course.

However, a key component for me is vitamin c. When I feel fatigued during the day I dissolve 1/2 gram of effervescent tablet in a small glass of water and it gives me a lift.

[Quasar]

I think i just had an involuntary positive skin p-r-i-c-k test. Yesterday i shaved my lower abdomen area. Then, some hours later (3-4h.) i had an O., and left the semen for 5 minutes, and that area became full of red rashes...And some rashes lasted 24h.

Usually, the skin is more sensitive after shaving it, so i don't know if it's a normal reaction or not. I mean, if you apply irritating products on a recently shaved area, it will also cause rashes...But this time the rashes looked to me too much bumpy to be a normal reaction...

I'd like to know if people with no-Pois also get this kind of rashes with semen, but that's difficult to know...

[jivetalk]

First, If I take a multi-vitamin with "the works", it makes me worse, often much worse.

Daveman, I found the exact Same thing years ago when I was just randomly taking vitamins for POIS (which I didn't know was POIS at the time). I ended up feeling absolutely terrible.

Re: Haven't posted in awhile so wanted to give a quick update on my Niacin. I am continually taking Niacin before O (300mg) and am finding it still beneficial, usually roughly in the order of 70-80% plus or minus 20% - Meaning sometimes it can be less, and sometimes can be close to 100% effective.

Has 300 mg been pretty normal for you. And that gives you a moderate flush?

Each one seems to have their levels, and the flush is sort of the guideline. 300 would have me pretty fried! 

Hey Daveman, funny you should mention this. I have been taking 300mg for this whole bottle. Then just yesterday I opened a new bottle, same brand.......300mg had me fired like a lobster. So...I'm guessing the initial batch I got wasn't great.....not sure of the reason......Going to try to cut the dosage down to 100mg or 200mg and see how I go.

I am very wary though....I O'ed without Niacin a few weeks back and........It took me a good 2-3 weeks to recover from that completely.

[Quasar]

Usually, the skin is more sensitive after shaving it, so i don't know if it's a normal reaction or not.

I wondered if we can simulate a prique-test by using a shaver and removing epidermis on a short area of the skin, and then put semen.

I suppose we could do a homemade p-r-i-c-k test with a shaver, or the tip of a needle...But then, we should compare the reaction with Histamine i think, and also i think the semen concentration should be different.

Anyway, we should contact an allergist...better one that specializes in autoimmune disorders or investigation of new disorders. I'm quite shy, so i won't go to my family allergist and ask for that...and then some different nurse...

But yeah, i think it's an important step to know if we are positive or negative to the skin p-r-i-c-k test. I hope i'm positive.

[POISon]

Interesting that people mentioned krill oil. Vitacost brand was by far the most effective for me,though ironically lowest amount of Epa and Dha compared to the others. The other brands just made me feel very drowsy while I felt more more mentally alert and focused while on the Vitacost brand as well as being in a far better mood. Interesting fact is that my libido seemed to skyrocket initially while on it and then it just tanked. I had no feeling for women whatsoever which is good in a sense in that I had no desire to "choke the chicken" so to speak.Unfortunately the downside of this is that it will obviously screw up your relationships with women. I don't want to be lonely the rest of my life.

I've gone off Krill oil since I found Acetyl -L- Carnitine an antioxidant,which actually help increase fatty acid metabolism in the brain without destroying libido. In fact I relate far better with women on it(and people in general) and my mild social anxiety is also pretty nonexistant since it has a calming effect while also helping me with verbal skills. The only side effect I've experienced is sometimes it makes me feel a little too confident,like I can conquer the world which happens I think if I take too much.I've never been good with taking required supplement doses,because if I'm feeling really good I want too take more and feel great,which as a result will often cause the reverse of what I was hoping for.This supplement has definitely helped me,hoping it helps someone else so I look forward to seeing a post where someone benefited from it.Its not a cure,but it does lessen the effects of an O,and the day after an O symptoms are markedly reduced.By the third day(sometimes second) after O all my symptoms are gone,whereas before I could feel negative effects for about a week and a half after an O

Cheers,
Matt

[daveman]

I have bought niacin 300mg (inositol hexanicotinate) and astaxanthin 4mg. I hope it will work.

I looked up  inositol hexanicotinate and it is a flush free type of niacin but it is not niacinimide either which we have also shown to work. Search Wiki with  inositol hexanicotinate.

I guess you could try it, but since you personally haven't had success with niacin, it would be best to test first with something we are familiar with.

Or better said, if you don't have success with this, don't give up on niacin until you've done the prescribed tests with "real niacin"

[mellivora]

I have bought niacin 300mg (inositol hexanicotinate) and astaxanthin 4mg. I hope it will work.

Good luck b_jim! Its good to know someone is trying astaxanthin. Thanks for the update and for testing!

Some interesting posts lately - I feel I must be getting enough vit C but I might try it on this POIS cycle.

I've gone off Krill oil since I found Acetyl -L- Carnitine

Acetyl-L-Carnitine: POIson does this work with all your cognitive symptoms? Does it help fatigue at all?

interesting here that Acetyl-L-Carnitine is said to reduce HPA axis hyperactivity although this isn't the most scientific looking website. We've had a few discussions about HPA-axis in the past I think
http://www.articledestination.com/Article/Why-we-use-Acetyl-Carnitine-/4050


Other websites on A-L-C that I haven't read through fully:
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/carnitine-l-000291.htm

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=acetyl%20l%20carnitine&source=web&cd=14&ved=0COUBEBYwDQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fntp.niehs.nih.gov%2Fntp%2Fhtdocs%2Fchem_background%2Fexsumpdf%2Fcarnliposupp.pdf&ei=dd8iT66eONGXhQeWo6zUBA&usg=AFQjCNHqK0YamI3JepLwKWTLKRIa4yLtHg&cad=rja

[demografx]

So, is the cure for POIS found?

No.

What is the best medication for it till now?

Nothing universally applicable.

Some have had success with niacin, testosterone, desensitization. Check the other forum for these:
http://www.poiscenter.com/forums/index.php

Our research fund is focused on obtaining better answers. Donate if you can.
http://www.rarediseases.org/about/support/donate/fg_base_view_p3

[daveman]

Yes, it's a flush free form. It's hard for me to believe the niacin flush is the cause of Pois improvement, but all is possible. Anyway I have chose this one because it was more easy for me to buy with astaxanthin. The other advantage is that this form seems safer for liver. This form seems effective against Raynaud's syndrome.(In the severe form, the fingers become fully white or blue, the pictures are impressive) I don't know how this can be linkef to fingertips symptoms or vasodilation theories.
This time I will take it on an empty stomach.
For astaxanthin, I have some hopes.

Personally I don't think the flush has much to do with anything, other than "indicate" that the right quantity has been taken. The modifications chemically in the non-flush type greatly reduce its effectivity, at least for  the original purposes of niacin (reduction of colesterol etc) and they say that this type is harder on the liver than regular niacin. Perhaps because more has to be taken to have a similar effect.

If you want to know if niacin is going to work for you for sure, you should take the flush type and seek the flush one hour before orgasm. If it doesn't work under those conditions, itīs not going to work at all.

On the other hand, if you take the non-flush type and you don't find relief you still don't know if niacin will work or not. That's all I'm saying, don't discount niacin if this type doesn't work.

[POISon]

POIson does this work with all your cognitive symptoms? Does it help fatigue at all?

interesting here that Acetyl-L-Carnitine is said to reduce HPA axis hyperactivity although this isn't the most scientific looking website. We've had a few discussions about HPA-axis in the past I think

Yes, Acety-L-Carnitine is definitely helping my cognition and energy. I can remember things much better as well as get things done because I have the energy and focus to do so. I don't think I have taken anything which has made me more motivated to finish things.You may be onto something about the HPA Axis I have read quite a bit about it and at one time even dropped a couple of grand for treatments at a clinic that treated chronic fatigue patients,thinking I had chronic fatigue syndrome. The doctor there said my fatigue had to do with a bacteria attacking my HPA Axis.Never felt worse in my life than going there  as the antibiotic treatments caused all sorts of health issues such as mild seizures that occasionally exist today.

Its highly likely a virus or a stressful experience caused havoc on my HPA axis or immune symptoms making me overreact to having an O which my body somehow takes as a threat . The other strange thing is I can't tolerate hot showers or baths. If I take a very hot shower its like POIS(similar symptoms) 2x or more for at least a week. Originally though i might have MS,but not all the symptoms match,and that's pretty much a dead end anyway as far as treatment goes,so I'm hoping if I just stay away from hot baths, and take supplements such as Acetyl-L Carnitine to help Pois I can at least live a tolerable life, if not an entirely enjoyable one.

Also,thanks for providing those links,very interesting.I've seen quite a few controlled studies on the net where it has been proven over placebo,that Acetyl-L-Carnitine causes significant increases in cognition,energy,and mood.I saw one that states that it appears that it creates neurogenesis which is creation of new brain cells,so if true that is very intriguing also.

[POIS-SUFFERER]

POIson does this work with all your cognitive symptoms? Does it help fatigue at all?

interesting here that Acetyl-L-Carnitine is said to reduce HPA axis hyperactivity although this isn't the most scientific looking website. We've had a few discussions about HPA-axis in the past I think

Yes, Acety-L-Carnitine is definitely helping my cognition and energy. I can remember things much better as well as get things done because I have the energy and focus to do so. I don't think I have taken anything which has made me more motivated to finish things.You may be onto something about the HPA Axis I have read quite a bit about it and at one time even dropped a couple of grand for treatments at a clinic that treated chronic fatigue patients,thinking I had chronic fatigue syndrome. The doctor there said my fatigue had to do with a bacteria attacking my HPA Axis.Never felt worse in my life than going there  as the antibiotic treatments caused all sorts of health issues such as mild seizures that occasionally exist today.

Its highly likely a virus or a stressful experience caused havoc on my HPA axis or immune symptoms making me overreact to having an O which my body somehow takes as a threat . The other strange thing is I can't tolerate hot showers or baths. If I take a very hot shower its like POIS(similar symptoms) 2x or more for at least a week. Originally though i might have MS,but not all the symptoms match,and that's pretty much a dead end anyway as far as treatment goes,so I'm hoping if I just stay away from hot baths, and take supplements such as Acetyl-L Carnitine to help Pois I can at least live a tolerable life, if not an entirely enjoyable one.

Also,thanks for providing those links,very interesting.I've seen quite a few controlled studies on the net where it has been proven over placebo,that Acetyl-L-Carnitine causes significant increases in cognition,energy,and mood.I saw one that states that it appears that it creates neurogenesis which is creation of new brain cells,so if true that is very intriguing also.

Interesting just read that Acetyl-L-Carnitine is part of your sperm make-up..... hmmm..... if I don't have enough and I lose even more of it.... but you would think that the instant lose and instant POIS symptoms are a bit odd.....

Anyway just another point to make.

PS.

[GoingCrazy]

Just wanted to note that I have been feeling a lot better by drinking chamomile tea at night.  I sleep all throughout the night and this has been going on for about 5 days straight.  I don't remember sleeping throughout the night before in POIS.  I feel so much better overall.  I'm not sure if you are supposed to take it every night, but hey, it has been working.  I feel so much more calmer and relaxed, yet still have motivation during the day.  But I love feeling tired at night now.  It also works as an antihistamine.  I know Z_one also has tried this concoction with good results back on pg.250 something.

[badgerstripe]

Usually, the skin is more sensitive after shaving it, so i don't know if it's a normal reaction or not.

I wondered if we can simulate a prique-test by using a shaver and removing epidermis on a short area of the skin, and then put semen.

I suppose we could do a homemade p-r-i-c-k test with a shaver, or the tip of a needle...But then, we should compare the reaction with Histamine i think, and also i think the semen concentration should be different.

Anyway, we should contact an allergist...better one that specializes in autoimmune disorders or investigation of new disorders. I'm quite shy, so i won't go to my family allergist and ask for that...and then some different nurse...

But yeah, i think it's an important step to know if we are positive or negative to the skin p-r-i-c-k test. I hope i'm positive.

I rubbed my own semen onto my skin on one occasion and within ten minutes there was a very angry red rash, the colour of blood blisters. no pinprick necessary.

[kurtosis]

POIson does this work with all your cognitive symptoms? Does it help fatigue at all?

interesting here that Acetyl-L-Carnitine is said to reduce HPA axis hyperactivity although this isn't the most scientific looking website. We've had a few discussions about HPA-axis in the past I think

Yes, Acety-L-Carnitine is definitely helping my cognition and energy. I can remember things much better as well as get things done because I have the energy and focus to do so. I don't think I have taken anything which has made me more motivated to finish things.You may be onto something about the HPA Axis I have read quite a bit about it and at one time even dropped a couple of grand for treatments at a clinic that treated chronic fatigue patients,thinking I had chronic fatigue syndrome. The doctor there said my fatigue had to do with a bacteria attacking my HPA Axis.Never felt worse in my life than going there  as the antibiotic treatments caused all sorts of health issues such as mild seizures that occasionally exist today.

Its highly likely a virus or a stressful experience caused havoc on my HPA axis or immune symptoms making me overreact to having an O which my body somehow takes as a threat . The other strange thing is I can't tolerate hot showers or baths. If I take a very hot shower its like POIS(similar symptoms) 2x or more for at least a week. Originally though i might have MS,but not all the symptoms match,and that's pretty much a dead end anyway as far as treatment goes,so I'm hoping if I just stay away from hot baths, and take supplements such as Acetyl-L Carnitine to help Pois I can at least live a tolerable life, if not an entirely enjoyable one.

Also,thanks for providing those links,very interesting.I've seen quite a few controlled studies on the net where it has been proven over placebo,that Acetyl-L-Carnitine causes significant increases in cognition,energy,and mood.I saw one that states that it appears that it creates neurogenesis which is creation of new brain cells,so if true that is very intriguing also.

I think the body produces ALCAR from the amino acid L-carnitine during strenuous exercise. L-Carnitine is in one of my gym supplements in large quantities so I can't dismiss the effects but they should have revealed themselves with greater force before now However, I'm still positive that Krill oil is beneficial and works better than fish oils in triglyceride form, at least for me.