[Mr.Cool]

@observercenter where can I buy this niacin? I hope I dont' appear foolish by asking can I get it in CVS? Also what kind should I try to obtain? One other question that I would like to ask is what is everyone's sex vs. masturbation ratio? I think there could be some relation between that and POIS. On the symptom side of things is it common to be lightsensitive and experience eye folaters from POIS? What about stretch marks on the back?
And from the article side, why is it not credible? Doesn't it say that he is a doctor? He also has a ton of refrences from sources like pubmed which are very reliable.

Thanks again and God bless.

[demografx]

Why is the writing lacking credibility? "Dr Lin" has been thoroughly discredited here, with self-serving writings that bluntly sell his supplements and consultations. And I basically trust B_Jim and Quasar's evaluations and comparisons.

I took another look at "Dr Richard"'s site, he indeed is selling products [questionable, not-FDA approved] for which his writings point to the "cures" he sells.

Unethical and hugely misleading.

[lauracostis]

Hey guys, i think i've found something. I know we have already too many theories, but this one makes a lot of sense:

Today on the news they said they have discovered that prostaglandin D2 (PGD2) is a key factor in male baldness.

One of my symptoms of Pois is that after having an O. i lose a lot of hair, and if i don't O's then my hair remains strong and i don't lose it.

Then i went to wikipedia and learned that PGD2 is related to Asthma and inflammation. And you know what? Another symptom of Pois, at least for me, is that it makes my asthma and my breathing efficiency quite worse.

But not only this. PGD2 is also related to the Niacin Flush. In fact, is what it causes it: "Research carried out in 1989[3] found that PGD2 is the primary mediator of vasodilation (the "niacin flush") after ingestion of niacin (nicotinic acid)."

Maybe the Niacin Flush is helping us, because it uses the PGD2 (in a different way than an O.) before having the O., and then the O. is not so harmful.

Does anyone know if exist a drug that inhibits PGD2?

Laropiprant is a selective antagonist of the prostaglandin D(2) receptor subtype 1 (DP1), which may mediate niacin-induced vasodilation.

[CertainlyPOIS]

http://www.herballove.com/article.asp?art=109

mr cool just go to that website you will see the similarities.
warning stay away from the products they are rubish(that is from personal experience.)

[demografx]

CCconfucius, thank you!

[victor.kons]

Hi Guys,

I had to try new XN tablets two days before of different producer, because my favorite tablets are not shipped anymore to my drug store. I have taken in 300mg and no flush, but despite of this I had sex, I thought they will work, but they didn't and POIS started slowly this day. And I had terrible POIS yesterday. I have suffered the whole day and in the evening it was clear to me that POIS will continue today in its worst form... However in the evening yesterday I decided to try POIS-removal method by taking more tablets to have the flush and to have a sex after that. And guess what - it worked! I have clear mind today despite my expectations to have a worst 2nd day of POIS!!

Victor

[Quasar]

Laropiprant is a selective antagonist of the prostaglandin D(2) receptor subtype 1 (DP1), which may mediate niacin-induced vasodilation.

Thanks a lot lauracostis,

So now we have 2 candidates that inhibit PGD2 release: Diclofenac* and Laropiprant. We may have a third one: Quercetin: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18831918 and i've found 2 more: Luteolin and Aspirin (the last one is not so effective): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18223672

Of the 5 candidates, 3 are drugs an 2 are supps. I suppose the effective dose in the supps is much different than the effective dose in the drugs. In the study, they talk about 1000mg (1 kg)of quercetin or luteolin per human. That is a lot, and would be very expensive.

I've also found this thread where they talk about it: http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=32&p=672064

They say that Niacin and Laropiprant target PGD2 "DP1" receptor (both in an inverse way), and that a new drug called "Setipripant" is in trials, and it will block PGD2 "DP2" receptor (that is the hair loss one).
But we are here because of Pois, not hair loss, so the "DP1" receptor (the Niacin one) may work well for us.

On the other hand, if we want something to enhance or mimmick  (and not inhibit) Niacin, we should look for something that releases PGD2, and 5-HT (Serotonin). In the above Pubmed links it clearly states that Niacin increases 5-HT levels. Maybe a good candidate would be "triptans"? I think recently someone said his doctor recommended triptans to him in relation to Pois.

Please,  if someone tries any drug or supplement always read the information leaflet before.
P.S.: And sorry if the Post is a bit too technical talk!! 
* Mellivora already tried Diclofenac and it didn't work for him. Interestingly, Diclofenac was proposed by Dr.Goldmeier.

[Quasar]

About quercetin, I remember I said we need a trcuk of apples to suppress inflammation
But I didn't understand your post. You want to counter PGE-2 mediators caused by niacin or supposed caused by Pois ?

I want to counter the supposed PGD2 caused by Pois. Niacin also causes PGD2 release and helps us, but it's possible that helps us because of the Serotonin (5-HT) release, or because it fills the PGD2 receptors, so then when we have an "O." we don't suffer from inflammation (if we take niacin).

But i also mentioned the other side of the theory: to find something that does something similar to Niacin. This is why i talked about Triptans, because they increase 5-HT (serotonin) and because they are already used in sexual headaches.

Hope it helps!

[lauracostis]

Laropiprant is a selective antagonist of the prostaglandin D(2) receptor subtype 1 (DP1), which may mediate niacin-induced vasodilation.

Thanks a lot lauracostis,

So now we have 2 candidates that inhibit PGD2 release: Diclofenac* and Laropiprant. We may have a third one: Quercetin: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18831918 and i've found 2 more: Luteolin and Aspirin (the last one is not so effective): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18223672

Of the 5 candidates, 3 are drugs an 2 are supps. I suppose the effective dose in the supps is much different than the effective dose in the drugs. In the study, they talk about 1000mg (1 kg)of quercetin or luteolin per human. That is a lot, and would be very expensive.

I've also found this thread where they talk about it: http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=32&p=672064

They say that Niacin and Laropiprant target PGD2 "DP1" receptor (both in an inverse way), and that a new drug called "Setipripant" is in trials, and it will block PGD2 "DP2" receptor (that is the hair loss one).
But we are here because of Pois, not hair loss, so the "DP1" receptor (the Niacin one) may work well for us.

On the other hand, if we want something to enhance or mimmick  (and not inhibit) Niacin, we should look for something that releases PGD2, and 5-HT (Serotonin). In the above Pubmed links it clearly states that Niacin increases 5-HT levels. Maybe a good candidate would be "triptans"? I think recently someone said his doctor recommended triptans to him in relation to Pois.

Please,  if someone tries any drug or supplement always read the information leaflet before.
P.S.: And sorry if the Post is a bit too technical talk!! 
* Mellivora already tried Diclofenac and it didn't work for him. Interestingly, Diclofenac was proposed by Dr.Goldmeier.

I would try a PGD2 agonist first not a PGD2 antagonist, I would think about maybe focusing on the vasodialatory effect of PGD2 and not try to counter it.  Anyways, NSAIDs are COX inhibitors, which are designed to block prostoglandins, so I am asuming that everyone on this sight has tried an over the counter (OTC) NSAID, which did not cure them.

[lauracostis]

If anyone is interested, any compounding pharmacy will make custom niacin injections for you.  I am having some made right now for me.

[GoingCrazy]

I think if we try to suppress the 3 major inflammation hormones... prostaglandins, cytokines, and histamines, we'd be in good shape.  If only there was one thing to take for all 3?

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Inflammation.aspx

"15) Testosterone. Perhaps surprisingly to some, that all-important male hormone reduces inflammation, specifically TNF-alpha and IF-1B, and is yet another reason to make sure you optimize your androgen levels. [27]"

http://www.healthhabits.ca/2008/11/17/vitamin-c-puts-out-the-fire-of-inflammation/

"The U of C-B study, which will be published in the journal Free Radical Biology and Medicine,  shows that for healthy, non-smoking adults with an elevated level of CRP, a daily dose of vitamin C lowered levels of the inflammation
biomarker after two months compared with those who took a placebo."

[demografx]

I know this text is a paste-copy from original Dr. Lin's text.

Now we must find Ctrl+X!!

[demografx]

Hi Guys,

I had to try new XN tablets two days before of different producer, because my favorite tablets are not shipped anymore to my drug store. I have taken in 300mg and no flush, but despite of this I had sex, I thought they will work, but they didn't and POIS started slowly this day. And I had terrible POIS yesterday. I have suffered the whole day and in the evening it was clear to me that POIS will continue today in its worst form... However in the evening yesterday I decided to try POIS-removal method by taking more tablets to have the flush and to have a sex after that. And guess what - it worked! I have clear mind today despite my expectations to have a worst 2nd day of POIS!!

Victor

Congratulations, Victor!!

[acronym]

Laropiprant is a selective antagonist of the prostaglandin D(2) receptor subtype 1 (DP1), which may mediate niacin-induced vasodilation.

Thanks a lot lauracostis,

So now we have 2 candidates that inhibit PGD2 release: Diclofenac* and Laropiprant. We may have a third one: Quercetin: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18831918 and i've found 2 more: Luteolin and Aspirin (the last one is not so effective): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18223672

Of the 5 candidates, 3 are drugs an 2 are supps. I suppose the effective dose in the supps is much different than the effective dose in the drugs. In the study, they talk about 1000mg (1 kg)of quercetin or luteolin per human. That is a lot, and would be very expensive.

I've also found this thread where they talk about it: http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=32&p=672064

They say that Niacin and Laropiprant target PGD2 "DP1" receptor (both in an inverse way), and that a new drug called "Setipripant" is in trials, and it will block PGD2 "DP2" receptor (that is the hair loss one).
But we are here because of Pois, not hair loss, so the "DP1" receptor (the Niacin one) may work well for us.

On the other hand, if we want something to enhance or mimmick  (and not inhibit) Niacin, we should look for something that releases PGD2, and 5-HT (Serotonin). In the above Pubmed links it clearly states that Niacin increases 5-HT levels. Maybe a good candidate would be "triptans"? I think recently someone said his doctor recommended triptans to him in relation to Pois.

Please,  if someone tries any drug or supplement always read the information leaflet before.
P.S.: And sorry if the Post is a bit too technical talk!! 
* Mellivora already tried Diclofenac and it didn't work for him. Interestingly, Diclofenac was proposed by Dr.Goldmeier.

I would try a PGD2 agonist first not a PGD2 antagonist, I would think about maybe focusing on the vasodialatory effect of PGD2 and not try to counter it.  Anyways, NSAIDs are COX inhibitors, which are designed to block prostoglandins, so I am asuming that everyone on this sight has tried an over the counter (OTC) NSAID, which did not cure them.

Hi Quasar. Like you I also notice greater hair loss after an O, actually I get dandruff on many occasions (not always, but its really annoying, it bugs me as to what the hell is going on). Very interesting post on PGD2. You want to know what else lowers PGD2, capsicum/cayenne peppers. After reading about a CFS doctor and some guy who claimed he significantly reduced his CFS with daily very hot pepper drinks. I've taken them on and off over the years and it was no miracle cure for me but it helped with brain fog to get me going in the mornings. I wrote about it here before. I think it operates a bit like niacin as regards vasodilatation. I do need a break from it as it can be harsh on my stomach. I'm talking HHhhot peppers. (I take Blairs Mega Death sauce). 

[observercenter]

Hi Guys,

I had to try new XN tablets two days before of different producer, because my favorite tablets are not shipped anymore to my drug store. I have taken in 300mg and no flush, but despite of this I had sex, I thought they will work, but they didn't and POIS started slowly this day. And I had terrible POIS yesterday. I have suffered the whole day and in the evening it was clear to me that POIS will continue today in its worst form... However in the evening yesterday I decided to try POIS-removal method by taking more tablets to have the flush and to have a sex after that. And guess what - it worked! I have clear mind today despite my expectations to have a worst 2nd day of POIS!!

Victor

Wonderful news Victor! The same has happened to me when i tried this method(after NE.). We should look into this.

[John21 (OP)]

I just learned that human growth hormone (HGH) can be increased substancially by intense cardio, such as sprinting:
http://www.readysetgofitness.com/newsletter/10_New%20Research%20shows%20how%20to%20increace%20HGH%20530%25.htm

I am still mystified that I have experienced no symptoms this time around. Racking my brain, here are some possible reasons:

1. Dietary change (previously stated)
2. Recent Relora use (did it change something?)
3. Recent exercise change: High adrenaline/ intense cardio workout once a week (singletrack mountain biking)
4. Sleep change (I am doubtful that this could bring total relief)
5. Unknown factor

Maybe you are  just in a good cycle. You're probably now less stressed, less tired, more relaxed,energized... And so you have suffisant "energy" (hormones/neurotransmitters...) to avoid symptoms after orgasm.

Thinking back to this post in 2009... I am wondering if the intense exercise might have manufactured HGH, which somehow prevented POIS.  Maybe it is worthy of an experiment: the next time you and yours are getting romantic tell her you have to go for a quick run first. 

[kurtosis]

I just learned that human growth hormone (HGH) can be increased substancially by intense cardio, such as sprinting:
http://www.readysetgofitness.com/newsletter/10_New%20Research%20shows%20how%20to%20increace%20HGH%20530%25.htm

I am still mystified that I have experienced no symptoms this time around. Racking my brain, here are some possible reasons:

1. Dietary change (previously stated)
2. Recent Relora use (did it change something?)
3. Recent exercise change: High adrenaline/ intense cardio workout once a week (singletrack mountain biking)
4. Sleep change (I am doubtful that this could bring total relief)
5. Unknown factor

Maybe you are  just in a good cycle. You're probably now less stressed, less tired, more relaxed,energized... And so you have suffisant "energy" (hormones/neurotransmitters...) to avoid symptoms after orgasm.

Thinking back to this post in 2009... I am wondering if the intense exercise might have manufactured HGH, which somehow prevented POIS.  Maybe it is worthy of an experiment: the next time you and yours are getting romantic tell her you have to go for a quick run first. 

Get enough amino acids and work on strength training and your body will manufacture HGH to support muscle growth. Perhaps having a protein shake and bench pressing your girlfriend before "romantic activity" is the way to go

[daveman]

As an idea about how to get more donations, I think we should send email to all members of poiscenter.com forum with the information about activity to gather pois research funds. I know that everyone hates bulk emails, but the reason for this email is special and very important and thats why it is reasonable to do this.

What do you think?

With luck I'll get a newsletter out this weekend. The mechanism is set up and we have a list, although it doesn't include the latest members. There are some 300+ names, plus those most recently added for the surveys.

[victor.kons]

As an idea about how to get more donations, I think we should send email to all members of poiscenter.com forum with the information about activity to gather pois research funds. I know that everyone hates bulk emails, but the reason for this email is special and very important and thats why it is reasonable to do this.

What do you think?

With luck I'll get a newsletter out this weekend. The mechanism is set up and we have a list, although it doesn't include the latest members. There are some 300+ names, plus those most recently added for the surveys.

Wonderful! Thank you for all your hard work, Dave!

Vic

[Vincent M]

@observercenter where can I buy this niacin? I hope I dont' appear foolish by asking can I get it in CVS? Also what kind should I try to obtain? One other question that I would like to ask is what is everyone's sex vs. masturbation ratio? I think there could be some relation between that and POIS. On the symptom side of things is it common to be lightsensitive and experience eye folaters from POIS? What about stretch marks on the back?

I think CVS does sell niacin. Just make sure it doesn't say "no flush" on the bottle and make sure it's not some other type of niacin like niacinamide. If the bottle just says "Niacin" on it then you probably have the right kind. Also you'll want to start off with 100mg capsules, because most of our members seem to get the flush with 100 to 200mg of niacin. If you take too much the flush can be pretty unpleasant experience.

I've only had sex a few times in my life and I masturbate every day. My POIS was the same after sex. As far as I know there isn't any relation between sex and POIS especially since many of our members here are married. There were several who claimed to be cured of POIS after entering great relationships. But if lack of sex caused POIS then most virgins would get POIS, which isn't the case.

I don't experience eye floaters, but my eyes are extremely sensitive to sunlight or any kind of breeze or wind while in POIS. My skin feels more dry and less elastic and thinner while in POIS as well. Combined with muscle loss this caused some stretch marks.