[Starsky]

Neem may become the first truly effective birth control "pill" for men (Riar, 1988).  Neem leaf tablets ingested for one month produced reversible male antifertility without affecting sperm production or libido (Deshpande, 1980) (Sadre, 1984).  In India and the United States, exploratory trials show neem extracts reduced fertility in male monkeys without inhibiting libido or sperm production (Sharma, et al, 1987).

In a test of neem's birth control effects with members of the Indian Army, daily oral doses of several drops of neem seed oil in gelatin capsules were given to twenty married soldiers. The effect took six weeks to become 100 percent effective, it remained effective during the entire year of the trial and was reversed six weeks after the subjects stopped taking the capsules. During this time the men experienced no adverse side effects and retained their normal capabilities and desires. (Vietmeyer, 1992) There were no pregnancies of any of the wives during the period of the study.

For long term birth control for men it appears that a very minute amount of neem oil injected in the vas deferens provides up to eight months of birth control. The tests revealed no obstructions, no change in testosterone production and no anti-sperm antibodies. The local lymph nodes showed increased ability to respond to infections indicating an immune response may be responsible for the birth control effect in men as it is in women. (Upadhyay, 1993)

[Starsky]

There are some studies that show that neem bark extract and neem seed oil caused arrest of spermatogenesis within 2 months, with a decrease in the number of Leydig cells (responsible for the manufacturing of testosterone) (Randhawa 1996)

[acronym]

There are some studies that show that neem bark extract and neem seed oil caused arrest of spermatogenesis within 2 months, with a decrease in the number of Leydig cells (responsible for the manufacturing of testosterone) (Randhawa 1996)

I never knew this  about neem. Amazing, but what you say..."decrease in the number of Leydig cells", hardly sounds ideal. Okay, I just read leydig cells can regenerate, but it seems with the aid of a drug like HCG.

[acronym]

It seems my POIS is cured..  Almost 90% of the symptoms gone in just two months of medicine.   
..........
Also see the benefits of Neem power capsule for allergy. 
thanks to god once.

This is wonderful news for you natham (and hopefully for many of us), and I'm impressed with the 3 Os in a day test, but if it holds up still as well in the months to come will be the 2nd test aspect to this potential cure. I've used Neem Oil shampoo to treat fungal conditions and knew of its use a anti-fungal + mild anti-bacterial + pestiside herb. I've seem the oil in health food stores which I thought was for topical applications but never any capsules. So according to Starsky its reducing your sperm and testosterone levels. Please keep us impormed if its still working for you just as good in the weeks to come.

I thought the 'allergy' theory as based on semen not sperm...can someone please correct me if I am wrong.
This is a little weird in that a few have got relief from increasing their T not reducing it. Also lowered T levels might not be so bad when you are young & super horny, but low T in your teens can possibly effect your growth size. Starksy mentioned a test with the Indian army, which showed no undersired side effects, but I do find that surprising if the result is less leydig cells ---> less testosterone + less dhea.

[fidalgo]

It seems my POIS is cured..  Almost 90% of the symptoms gone in just two months of medicine.   

As I posted in my previous post, my doctor has suspected muscle weakness and prescribed Homeopathic medicines. But this not work for me.  and I found that POIS is not due to muscle weakness and I stop this medicine.  then I started for searching effective medicine for allergy. 

By god's grace, my friend suggested me to take Neem Capsules daily one after wakeup.  I took this for two months and my POIS symptoms started declining.    Now even I had two or three o in a day.  I will be affected for very mild POIS symptoms say only 10% of earlier.   Hopefully to clear this 10% in some time by continuing neem capsules. 

Further, this result is constant from the last one month and I followed two weeks rule here. 

Also see the benefits of Neem power capsule for allergy. 
thanks to god once.

That is very intersting Nathan. I want to try.

I have some doubts. Do you only take the pills in the day one or take every day? What is the dosage?

I had already order some pills to test...

[acronym]

nathan - did you use seed or leaf neem?

[nathan123]

nathan - did you use seed or leaf neem?

I used Neam leaf powder.  I bought this powder from the herbal shop and I fill this into empty capsules.  I eat this daily one (after wakeup, before eating / drinking) from the past two and two half months.  I got the result within 20 days after this usage.  As posted in my previous mail, my doctor suspected muscle weakness.  Over a period of time, my doctor and I both concluded that it is not due to muscle weakness for the following reasons.

a) Some times I experienced POIS symptoms starting after 15 to 20 hours after orgasm. 
b) Some times without having orgasm,  I got POIS symptoms by watching sexual scenes and movies.
c) further doctor told if it is a mucle weakness then there will be a heavy physical strain.  But in POIS period, physically I am very strong.  I can hit even 10 people if required, but my mental status was worst.
d) Further, on my face, I had white patches like pimple which is filled up with white liquid.  skin specialist tested this and he concluded that this is not a pimples, rather a patches because of allergy in the body. 

So, I started searching for cure for allergy.  In one of the website  I found a post by one person who was suffering from depression, headche, mental stress, reddish eyes, brain fog (same as POIS symtoms) after eating sea foods and this will gradually cured in 3 days.    He took neem capsule for 4 months.  Afterwords his problem was completely cured.  Based on this, I asked my friend who is a herbal products dealer.  He suggested me to try this.  Because of this I tried this product and it has worked for me. 

Further, Yesterday I tested my sperm levels, as in some website it says Neem will decrease the sperm counts which is reversible nature.  But for me there was no decrease and all levels are normal in semen.  So, I thought I may be cured (not fully say 90%) because of following benefits of neem
1) It increases immune system capability.
2) Decreases auto immune diseases.
3) Decreases allergy
4) one of the good anit-oxidant
5) Fight against virus, bacteria if it is there in body.

[Nightingale]

I have a rather strange story about my muscle growth as a teen while having POIS.  I am curious about this now as I'm starting to find I have circulation issues, and muscle growth is very related to good/bad circulation.  This is why you see many muscle growth products advertising circulation enhancing products (many contain products that increase nitric oxide (NO) for example).

My strangeness is that by the age of 16, I had developed large neck, back and butt muscles, without exercising them.  I was having people tell me "wow your neck is so thick, you look so big!"  This is in contrast to the front of my body and arms, which were much less developed.  I wasn't complaining, I looked like I was a physically fit guy (from the front and back) which helped me get the attention of women   

But if you view me from the side, it was not such an appealing sight.  Firstly, I have mild pectus excavatum, or a "bowl chest" which makes sort of a cave in the middle.  This made my lower ribs stick out, and if I wore a shirt some mean people would say I looked like I had breasts.  There was so much muscle mass on my back, that it gave me an imbalanced look from the side.  I was almost hunchbacked, my neck and trapezoidal muscles were (are) so large.  Also, my jaw may have not developed as it should, since I have a mild overbite and a small jaw.

Also strange are that I have narrow wrists and forearms, which looked quite scrawny when I was young.  I later was motivated to exercise my arms and chest to try to improve my figure.  I have developed large biceps/triceps and have larger chest muscles, but the chest has been very hard to grow.  I am thinking, maybe I have circulation issues with the front of my torso that diverted blood/nutrients to my rear that caused it to grow so much but out of balance with the rest?  If that's true, did this also contribute to my "bowl chest" by stopping/weakening it's growth, and the same for my forearms and jaw?  Your front and back are innervated (supplied) by different nerves.  The main nerve in the front is the vagus nerve, which if understimulated has been shown to cause depression (there is a treatment for depression where they install a vagus nerve stimulator in your body).

And equally strange is the muscle distribution in my legs.  It's the same imbalance but reversed, the front (quadriceps) is really strong while the back (hamstrings) are seriously weaker.  I ran on my highschool track team, and was a very good sprinter, and I could kick a soccer ball very hard and far.  But I found out, when I played football (American), that I could not push others out of my way nearly as hard with my legs.  This motion involves your rear leg (hamstrings) much more!  On weight training days, I would be embarassed when I had to perform "squats" with my legs because I couldn't do half as much as the other guys for nearly as long.  I work on those muscles to this day, and it has been hard to grow them!

I'm wondering if this has to do with POIS and my findings that I have circulation issues.  My doctor told me I have Raynaud's Disease, where my hands and feet are purplish and blotchy showing bad circulation.   Niacin, ginko, fenugreek all dilate your vessels, improving circulation and helping our POIS.  I'm having trouble taking anything that promotes nitric oxide (NO), it's causing interactions with my psychiatric medications.  I wish that didn't happen.

EDIT: the niacin flush is really centered around the front torso and arms.  Coincidence or important?

Anyways, I'm curious if other guys here have similar stories.  Also, in the days before niacin and vitamins, if I had a "hard" orgasm (basically where it felt REALLY good), the weaker muscles in the back on my leg would feel soooo sore the next day, like I had old-man muscles.  I know you guys have soreness.  Where is it the most?

[lauracostis]

nathan - did you use seed or leaf neem?

I used Neam leaf powder.  I bought this powder from the herbal shop and I fill this into empty capsules.  I eat this daily one (after wakeup, before eating / drinking) from the past two and two half months.  I got the result within 20 days after this usage.  As posted in my previous mail, my doctor suspected muscle weakness.  Over a period of time, my doctor and I both concluded that it is not due to muscle weakness for the following reasons.

a) Some times I experienced POIS symptoms starting after 15 to 20 hours after orgasm. 
b) Some times without having orgasm,  I got POIS symptoms by watching sexual scenes and movies.
c) further doctor told if it is a mucle weakness then there will be a heavy physical strain.  But in POIS period, physically I am very strong.  I can hit even 10 people if required, but my mental status was worst.
d) Further, on my face, I had white patches like pimple which is filled up with white liquid.  skin specialist tested this and he concluded that this is not a pimples, rather a patches because of allergy in the body. 

So, I started searching for cure for allergy.  In one of the website  I found a post by one person who was suffering from depression, headche, mental stress, reddish eyes, brain fog (same as POIS symtoms) after eating sea foods and this will gradually cured in 3 days.    He took neem capsule for 4 months.  Afterwords his problem was completely cured.  Based on this, I asked my friend who is a herbal products dealer.  He suggested me to try this.  Because of this I tried this product and it has worked for me. 

Further, Yesterday I tested my sperm levels, as in some website it says Neem will decrease the sperm counts which is reversible nature.  But for me there was no decrease and all levels are normal in semen.  So, I thought I may be cured (not fully say 90%) because of following benefits of neem
1) It increases immune system capability.
2) Decreases auto immune diseases.
3) Decreases allergy
4) one of the good anit-oxidant
5) Fight against virus, bacteria if it is there in body.

For those of you who are interested in trying neem leaf.  What has apperently been safe for use over thousands of years is dried or fresh neem leaves, this equates to "neem leaf powder", which is just ground up neem leaves.  I have read both neem leaf extracts and oils may be toxic, especially if used over long periods of time.  These are much more potent than what was traditionally used in ancient and alternative medicine.  Although, neem leaf oil is considered GRAS (generally recognized as safe) by the FDA for the use as a pesticide on agricultural products, the use of neem oil products sold for humans is for topical use on skin. 

I think this looks like a good experiment to try neem leaf poweder, but i would be carefull of using neem oil or extract for an extended period of time. 

also on another note, I read that the male contraceptive experiment was misrepresented and that most likely it was the women that also used neem oil intravaginally before sex, which provides spermicidal properties for up to five hours after insertion.

[jferr]

I have a rather strange story about my muscle growth as a teen while having POIS.  I am curious about this now as I'm starting to find I have circulation issues, and muscle growth is very related to good/bad circulation.  This is why you see many muscle growth products advertising circulation enhancing products (many contain products that increase nitric oxide (NO) for example).

My strangeness is that by the age of 16, I had developed large neck, back and butt muscles, without exercising them.  I was having people tell me "wow your neck is so thick, you look so big!"  This is in contrast to the front of my body and arms, which were much less developed.  I wasn't complaining, I looked like I was a physically fit guy (from the front and back) which helped me get the attention of women   

But if you view me from the side, it was not such an appealing sight.  Firstly, I have mild pectus excavatum, or a "bowl chest" which makes sort of a cave in the middle.  This made my lower ribs stick out, and if I wore a shirt some mean people would say I looked like I had breasts.  There was so much muscle mass on my back, that it gave me an imbalanced look from the side.  I was almost hunchbacked, my neck and trapezoidal muscles were (are) so large.  Also, my jaw may have not developed as it should, since I have a mild overbite and a small jaw.

Also strange are that I have narrow wrists and forearms, which looked quite scrawny when I was young.  I later was motivated to exercise my arms and chest to try to improve my figure.  I have developed large biceps/triceps and have larger chest muscles, but the chest has been very hard to grow.  I am thinking, maybe I have circulation issues with the front of my torso that diverted blood/nutrients to my rear that caused it to grow so much but out of balance with the rest?  If that's true, did this also contribute to my "bowl chest" by stopping/weakening it's growth, and the same for my forearms and jaw?  Your front and back are innervated (supplied) by different nerves.  The main nerve in the front is the vagus nerve, which if understimulated has been shown to cause depression (there is a treatment for depression where they install a vagus nerve stimulator in your body).

And equally strange is the muscle distribution in my legs.  It's the same imbalance but reversed, the front (quadriceps) is really strong while the back (hamstrings) are seriously weaker.  I ran on my highschool track team, and was a very good sprinter, and I could kick a soccer ball very hard and far.  But I found out, when I played football (American), that I could not push others out of my way nearly as hard with my legs.  This motion involves your rear leg (hamstrings) much more!  On weight training days, I would be embarassed when I had to perform "squats" with my legs because I couldn't do half as much as the other guys for nearly as long.  I work on those muscles to this day, and it has been hard to grow them!

I'm wondering if this has to do with POIS and my findings that I have circulation issues.  My doctor told me I have Raynaud's Disease, where my hands and feet are purplish and blotchy showing bad circulation.   Niacin, ginko, fenugreek all dilate your vessels, improving circulation and helping our POIS.  I'm having trouble taking anything that promotes nitric oxide (NO), it's causing interactions with my psychiatric medications.  I wish that didn't happen.

EDIT: the niacin flush is really centered around the front torso and arms.  Coincidence or important?

Anyways, I'm curious if other guys here have similar stories.  Also, in the days before niacin and vitamins, if I had a "hard" orgasm (basically where it felt REALLY good), the weaker muscles in the back on my leg would feel soooo sore the next day, like I had old-man muscles.  I know you guys have soreness.  Where is it the most?

Nightingale,

I have also been interested in a part POIS hypothesis that includes circulations issues. When in my POIS I have a lot of dizzy spells, especially when I get up from sitting or laying down. I am also unable to focus my eyes on things and they get bloodshot. My head also feels restricted and clogged. I am also unable to be still without my hands or mouth mildly shaking. I sometimes wonder if this is also a product of imporper circulation. Improper circulation to the brain can also cause a multitude of problems, including cognitive. Now I don't believe that circulation is the cause of all cognitive symptoms but it could certainly contribute.

I have tried things like hanging upside down and such to little or no avail.

[jferr]

Hey guys,

If anybody has severe conitive issues/headaches, trouble reacting to social stimuli along with physical symptoms I would love to chat. It would do nothing but help.

Anyone who is interested in chatting send me a message. We would both benefit from it.

Thanks.

[Joe L. Ogan]

The medical field does not appear to be aware of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome(POIS).  Is it possible that is is some sort of Psychological reaction?  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan

[Nightingale]

Is it possible that is is some sort of Psychological reaction?

Do you have a background in psychology/psychiatry?  If not, I really don't think this deserves an answer...

The medical field does not appear to be aware of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome(POIS).

Oh really?  If they did, do you think we would be doing all that we are doing here on these forums???

[Nightingale]

Nightingale,

I have also been interested in a part POIS hypothesis that includes circulations issues. When in my POIS I have a lot of dizzy spells, especially when I get up from sitting or laying down. I am also unable to focus my eyes on things and they get bloodshot. My head also feels restricted and clogged. I am also unable to be still without my hands or mouth mildly shaking. I sometimes wonder if this is also a product of imporper circulation. Improper circulation to the brain can also cause a multitude of problems, including cognitive. Now I don't believe that circulation is the cause of all cognitive symptoms but it could certainly contribute.

I have tried things like hanging upside down and such to little or no avail.

I think hanging upside down would not help constricted vessels in your head.  Circulation can be affected by a few factors, including how open your vessels/capillaries are.  I'm afraid we have vasoconstricted capillaries which prevent greater flow of blood to them, even when pressure is increased.  If you havn't tried it, take some Fenugreek capsules, and hawthorn and beetroot.  All these things are vasodilators and are natural, they could help you out!

[Stef]

The medical field does not appear to be aware of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome(POIS).  Is it possible that is is some sort of Psychological reaction?  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan

Hi Joe L. Ogan,

You're actually correct about the medical field's POIS-ignorance. They're barely aware of POIS, in the same way that most of them are unaware of the almost 7,000 documented rare disorders. (POIS is a documented rare disorder, listed on both the NIH Office of Rare Disease Research list AND on Orphanet's list, which is the European counterpart.)

However, many researchers DO know about POIS -- through NORD (rarediseases.org) and through the publicity brought about by some very brave, wonderful POIS forum members. 

It's absolutely not psychiatric in origin -- but I can understand why you asked the question. POIS causes such complete misery -- isolation, inflammatory-type physical pain, overwhelming fatigue, foggy thinking --> these are only some of the symptoms, which can last for two weeks or even longer. Many POIS-sufferers are unable to continue with their jobs or their education.

I feel that your question was asked in a most respectful tone, so wish to thank you for your interest. It's an awful, life-altering rare disorder that is crying out for research funds.

These men are getting there!! Despite the intense need for privacy, they have a very active research fund for POIS at NORD. https://www.rarediseases.org/about/support/research-donations/fg_base_view_p3

Stef

[Stef]

Demografx, the previous and dedicated moderator of the NSF POIS thread, posted the following on poiscenter.com, just a short while ago --

"Today, poiscenter.com appears in The Wall Street Journal." --

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/poiscentercom-announces-fundraising-effort-to-combat-rare-severely-debilitating-sexual-disorder-2012-08-20

Daveman and Demografx are an AMAZING team!!!!!  The WSJ is only one media outlet that's capturing the story. :-)

Stef

[CertainlyPOIS]

Is it possible that is is some sort of Psychological reaction?

Do you have a background in psychology/psychiatry?  If not, I really don't think this deserves an answer...

The medical field does not appear to be aware of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome(POIS).

Oh really?  If they did, do you think we would be doing all that we are doing here on these forums???

why did you respond so harshly when he asked so nicely, he is just a curious person.

[CertainlyPOIS]

The medical field does not appear to be aware of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome(POIS).  Is it possible that is is some sort of Psychological reaction?  Thanks for comments.  Joe L. Ogan

adding to what nordnurse said. some of us have taking the prescribed antidepressant by doctors and it didnt help. And another person had psychological counseling that didn't help and i dont think their  psychologist  believe it is psychological.

[kurtosis]

Is it possible that is is some sort of Psychological reaction?

Do you have a background in psychology/psychiatry?  If not, I really don't think this deserves an answer...

The medical field does not appear to be aware of Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome(POIS).

Oh really?  If they did, do you think we would be doing all that we are doing here on these forums???

why did you respond so harshly when he asked so nicely, he is just a curious person.

For the benefit of Joe L. Ogan, POIS sufferers can be very touchy about any suggestion that the disease is psychiatric in origin. The reason for this is quite obvious when you think about it. The natural response for doctors hearing about such an illness is to assume some psychosexual condition brought about by anxiety and stress related to sexual acts. Some of us have experienced severe cognitive symptoms which have rendered us unable to function including displacement, severe memory loss, inability to concentrate accompanied by headaches, pain behind the eyes etc.

From what I've read most POIS sufferers have been referred to psychiatrists (or variations thereof) but, despite taking the range of meds prescribed, not a single POIS sufferer has been cured by treatment of an anxiety disorder.

That's really important to understand. There are sufferers who have taken their prescribed medication for months or years while still suffering POIS symptoms. I can't speak for everybody but I do feel a bit let down by the greater medical community. Apart from NORD, people suffering from a rare condition are being treated like lunatics, malingerers or both.

I myself have experienced this whereupon a psychiatrists attempted to find anxiety issues that weren't there over 2 sessions. Whenever I said I wasn't worried about something, he'd ask "are you sure?". The psychiatrist decided that I was simply suffering from an acute anxiety disorder and needed yet more medication. Eventually I got to see another shrink who decided I wasn't demonstrating any of the normal symptoms of an anxiety disorder and sent me to an allergist. This is proving fruitful and after several blood tests it's clear that, for whatever reason, my body is constantly fighting some allergy.

This has left me with a very dim view of psychiatrists and the prescription of drugs with uncertain actions and severe interactions to cure illnesses that may or may not be in someone's head. You will find that view elsewhere on the forum as there are anecdotes about telling the psychiatrist / psychologist that whatever treatment isn't working and effectively being told that you / the problem is stubborn and needs more drugs.

That's why questions, no matter how well intentioned, about psychosomatic origins for POIS are like red rags to bulls.

Indeed far from generalised anxiety, the POIS sufferer seems solely anxious with what happens when they have an O but oddly remains optimistic of finding a cure. Personally, I'm not depressed. I've found ways to alleviate my symptoms but it's not "cured" and I do feel some frustration that a cause & cure haven't been identified. That's why we want to get a NORD research grant. 

Despite the condition, there's very little fighting or arguing on this and the other forum. Indeed, it seems that most of us have quantitative jobs like engineering and finance and just want to figure out a way past this as cognitive and memory problems are frustrating as are accompanying other symptoms which sometimes resemble hay fever.

Things that have brought some relief include niacin supplementation (so long as there's a flush of prostaglandin from mast cells and we can feel it), vasodilators, testosterone supplementation, supplements that boost testosterone and anti-allergy medications such as non-steroidal anti-inflammatories and steroidal anti-infllammatories.

So our working hypothesis is that POIS is at least partially caused by an allergy and that its cognitive symptoms may be caused by problems in neurotransmitter levels. That's where we are. It's been a long road getting there.

[fidalgo]

Kurtosis, you said that "after several blood tests it's clear that, for whatever reason, my body is constantly fighting some allergy". What blood tests your doctor do?