[mellivora]

 For those interested in hair mineral analysis, here is a recent (2013) Korean study that looked at variations in hair testing results at 3 different labs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3582931/#__ffn_sectitle

One of its conclusions is that the interpretation of hair mineral analysis results is challenging because there do not seem to be  well established, standardised 'normal' reference ranges for the tests. The ranges vary from lab to lab and so do the interpretations of results.

(Of course sometimes we run into trouble with the more established normal ranges for blood tests too. I once had a cortisol test where my cortisol was at the very top of the 'normal' range. The doctor was adamant that my cortisol was therefore normal. But a change of less than half of one per cent would have put me out of normal range and I wonder what the doctor's conclusion would have been then! Personally, I think that my result at least warranted further investigation...)

[victor.kons]

For those interested in hair mineral analysis, here is a recent (2013) Korean study that looked at variations in hair testing results at 3 different labs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3582931/#__ffn_sectitle

One of its conclusions is that the interpretation of hair mineral analysis results is challenging because there do not seem to be  well established, standardised 'normal' reference ranges for the tests. The ranges vary from lab to lab and so do the interpretations of results.

(Of course sometimes we run into trouble with the more established normal ranges for blood tests too. I once had a cortisol test where my cortisol was at the very top of the 'normal' range. The doctor was adamant that my cortisol was therefore normal. But a change of less than half of one per cent would have put me out of normal range and I wonder what the doctor's conclusion would have been then! Personally, I think that my result at least warranted further investigation...)

Interesting study. The numerical results among different labs are consistent. This is good.

Comparing hair analysis results to blood test results is pretty much meaningless. Because blood tests reference ranges are used to detect terminal problems in patients, whereas hair tests are positioned as much more accurate testing of health state (though their interpretation isn't established yet between different labs, but numerical results do coincide which is good)

It would be much more interesting to test if there is strong correlation between metal detection by hair tests and by accumulated blood tests within the same timeframe (probably a month), e.g. we test some metal by blood and hair tests, then we increase metal level in patient and do blood and hairtest and see whether they reflect the metal change or not, or we have two patients with different level of some metal as indicated by blood tests and we do hairtests of these patients and check whether metal levels are the same as for blood tests . If there is strong correlation, then hair tests is valid and precise method for evaluation of health state and scientific community need to proceed working on valid hair test interpretation.

Victor

[nomore2013]

urano

i dont know. herman said to do the tests, so i did the tests. i dont know what they mean. as far as i can tell, they are inconclusive. both tests were done at around the same time.

the copper-zinc panel has everything below the ideal levels, with non-ceruplasmin copper below the low levels. i dont have anybody to interpret these results so i dont know what they mean, i thought maybe someone here would know. i asked the nutritional balancing people, but they didnt know either and didnt give me a proper answer.

[gondal4]

one question,any woman have this problem after :O' or this pois is male specific?

[gondal4]

urano

i dont know. herman said to do the tests, so i did the tests. i dont know what they mean. as far as i can tell, they are inconclusive. both tests were done at around the same time.

the copper-zinc panel has everything below the ideal levels, with non-ceruplasmin copper below the low levels. i dont have anybody to interpret these results so i dont know what they mean, i thought maybe someone here would know. i asked the nutritional balancing people, but they didnt know either and didnt give me a proper answer.

then email herman these test results

[victor.kons]

one question,any woman have this problem after :O' or this pois is male specific?

I think this is not male only problem. I saw some examples over internet where women had the same symptoms we describe. However I didn't happen to see woman that actively participates regarding POIS on any of our forums.

Victor

[acronym]

one question,any woman have this problem after :O' or this pois is male specific?

I think this is not male only problem. I saw some examples over internet where women had the same symptoms we describe. However I didn't happen to see woman that actively participates regarding POIS on any of our forums.

Victor

Many of the theories discussed here are really not male specific. The over masturbation thing I guess is a male thing in terms of semen loss, but low ceruplasmin or toxic liver or excess histamine or high acetylcholine...not really. There was a couple of women on here once, Girlwind was a quite active participant. I think she made big progress by correcting her thyroid function. I read a post a few pages back that said she was banned which surprised me and was a shame. Other than her this seems to be an overwhelmingly male phenomenon.

[B_Daniel]

Girlwind was a quite active participant. I think she made big progress by correcting her thyroid function. I read a post a few pages back that said she was banned which surprised me and was a shame.

As far as I understand it she wasn't banned, I just heard she didn't love the moderating and quit.  Oh and by the way you can't find any info of that if you search back for it as it mysteriously disappeared.  There were prob other reasons too but shame that she's gone. 

[acronym]

Girlwind was a quite active participant. I think she made big progress by correcting her thyroid function. I read a post a few pages back that said she was banned which surprised me and was a shame.

As far as I understand it she wasn't banned, I just heard she didn't love the moderating and quit.  Oh and by the way you can't find any info of that if you search back for it as it mysteriously disappeared.  There were prob other reasons too but shame that she's gone. 

I see. I remember she was into I think maybe naturopathy and she got a bit of flak from Demo. I wonder if she fully resolved her condition. That's a bit weird that some of her convos were edited out. There were 2 other female members (supposidly) a few years back but hardly heard a thing from them. To me it seems like pois has to be linked to the male physiology somehow. In Demos it was classic male issue - Drop prolactin + increase testosterone, but its not so straight forward for many others.

[ajs]

I'm a woman and I have pois so I personally know it has nothing to do with allergy to seamen....I have been reading since the beginning and I remember that girlwind was very irritated by the moderater and I agree his ego and wanting to be right all the time was annoying and I really wish she did not leave...my pois turned into chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia and I could not digest anything and went to get food tested and my back welted up to everything but my blood work showed no allergies to food...I do know that my pois started after getting shingles....all the testing I've done and the only thing they have found were very high levels of antibodies to three different viruses

[B_Daniel]

It's surprising to me that our forum isn't more female.  I just don't see pois as a gender based disorder.  At least we have a few female members to lend some support to the belief that the problem doesn't originate in the male reproductive system.  I wonder if Herman could find any link to shingles... I can't seem to think of any possibilities.  btw ajs, i agree with your thoughts on Demo.  For the most part he's a really nice guy but in a forum of so few active members, when participation is so vital, you've got to be open to other people's ideas.  Threatening to ban people reduces the free flow of information sharing. 
Ajs i'd be interested to see your cerruloplasmin level if you ever have a convenient opportunity to test it.  I think a low score would all but prove to me that pois isnt gender-based.

[Kima]

Dr. Kumar

When you write a treatment scheme?
how's gurave?

thank you
Kima

[Kima]

low ceruloplasmin

http://www.inspire.com/groups/wilson-disease-association/discussion/low-ceruloplasmin/

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003662.htm

[Omen 30]

i have recently got my blood tests done.nearly 20 tests out of which maximum are normal but my homocysteine is high its 39.i read about it on the net its not good.maybe this is the reason for our my fatigue.even high sensitivity c is high at .31

[Over it]

WHat is chronic fatigue sydrome?
What is Fibromyalgia?
What causes these syndromes?
WHat is hypochondriasis?

[Kima]

as gurave., what happened to him, died or what?

[Kima]

Where Herman, why it is not in the network?

[victor.kons]

Guys, this is scientific forum. There was the most breaking statement that supposedly explains the mechanism of POIS. Why are we not discussing it? Lets either find proofs or reject the claims provided. This is the most logical thing to do, why aren't we doing it?

Thoughts?
Victor

Once again, to refresh your memory - the explanation of POIS mechanism:

From the tests that I recieved  recently,  almost every single  person   has low ceruloplasmin   in their blood.   Ceruloplasmin  is  copper based protein that  binds copper and carries it all over  including  into  the bile to detox. 
Bear with me,    you  have copper  in your serum and 95% of that copper should be bound to ceruloplasmin.   To test it  people  have  serum copper test and  ceruloplasmin tests,  from  which  you get  free copper  content.    Free copper  equals free estrogens   which  affect your inflammatory  systems.  Ceruloplasmin is used to break  down histamine.  When  free copper part gets larger because of stress, or  constant masturbation ,  ceruplasmin  falls.  If you wish I can  provide you with many studies to  support this claim.
So the logic is this..... Stress  lowers ceruloplasmin levels,  which leads to  larger part  of the free copper in blood, which  can be calculated  by   the formula you can find online  for  free copper.( From  serum copper and ceruloplasmin)

Free copper irritates adrenals,  since it increases  cortiosl secretion obviously  this way  there is a steal taking place  and your aldosterone falls and cortisol goes up.  In this setup  your ceruloplasmin will go down ,  and histamine will go up..

This is  your mechanism for POIS. 


To chelate  free copper and  to lower  cortisol and  increase thyroid function, since free copper equals free estrogen which  supresses thyroid,   you need    manganese  zinc  B6 and vitamin C.   

But there are many  different cases,  and  in some cases  for instance thyroid is suppresed by  mercury , and cortisol is up  to support   low thyroid since cortisol  pushes potassium up in the cell which increases thyroid function...In that case  copper chelation will help, but you will also need to chelate mercury and  use a lot of selenium  and possibly,   cilantro  and chlorella/

This is 100% cause of POIS, since  when  ceruloplasmin is low, that means  copper is not bound and that  good estrogen does not stimulate  aldosterone  production
aldosterone and good estrogen  causes retention of manganese....Manganese is  needed for acetylcholine synthesis and  the lack of which causes your  muscle weakness and  other low acetylcholine symptoms.

So you have  low zinc  , which  impaired your  digestion , you have   low copper bound which   increases your histamines and you have low ceruloplasmin  which  decreases your iron in blood and   you have low manganese  which  causes low acetylcholine.

[Kima]

Dr. Kumar, where are you?
Why do not you write?

Panchakarma is not helping?

Kima

[slavrs]

Hello All:

I’d like to announce that the most likely cause of the symptomatic representation of so called POIS has been discovered via a 6-month research where personal funds and efforts have been placed into use to find the mechanisms of the action of the syndrome. The syndrome will have a unique name that would be partially descriptive of the primary cause of action.

The syndrome is also most likely a direct cause of symptom representation in several systemic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromaylagia and other inflammatory conditions where Antinuclear Antibody Tests (ANA) have failed to confirm a diagnosis of an inflammatory condition, as an example.

While the process that triggers POIS flare ups will be represented in a simplified form, the effective list of methods to control the symptoms and possible approaches that may permanently resolve the root cause of the syndrome will be posted as well, however, under no circumstances it should be taken as a medical advice or perceived as cure. You will need to consult with your doctor before attempting any of the approaches. There will be no specific protocols listed; however, some supplements and lifestyle modifications pointing in the right direction to heal will be described.

Now, there are some good news and some not so good news. The good news is that the syndrome cycle can be effectively managed. The difficult part would be to find an underlying cause on an individual basis that contributes to the condition itself. The treatment of underlying cause may be as simple as modifications in diet and as complex as a long term care. Nevertheless, managing the symptoms will mostly likely help to improve the outcome in the long term. However, ignoring the condition may lead to serious health issues down the road. On the other hand, this does not necessarily apply to every individual case since the root causes may spontaneously resolve at any time as they do in many CFS individuals.

There are only a couple of individuals involved in the process and we are building an informational portal that will present to all of you the bare basics of mechanisms of action and basic supplementation summary to help you to manage it. This will be done in hope that this condition will finally be acknowledged by medical practitioners where presented information may medical provider to propose an effective treatment approach. It is estimated that it will take us 3-6 weeks to get the information ready.

Although there was no medical authority involved in the research, and a further investigation will probably be warranted, the symptom sequencing, tested solutions and medical laboratory tests had pointed most likely to the direct cause of the issue. The most effective solutions presented on the forums across the web, will become self explanatory as to the reason they have been helpful to many.

I will post a further update on this forum as soon as information is ready.

Sincerely,
S. Lav RS.