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most likelly yes, for me the prove for the concious of the universe, comes with the dinnosaus when complex life, whitch seems to be universe final goal, came to reproduce using eggs... I mean if you think about it the true sons of earth are by any means reptiles. i mean you think about it sounds redicuous, but if you put aside human logic and emotions, and look to the frame with a blank mind, the semelhance a egg and his development has with the planets themselves is impressive, and even to this very day birds are still using the same process to reproduce, and have being very sucessfull at evolve... Thing about a planet, crost, manttle, outer core, all that with the single objective to provide shelter and warm to the gem on the center of it, it also needs a enviroment subjected to heat, and so seems to be the relation with planets to their stars, eventually hatching the crost, forming more complex elements and black holes leading to another different worlds, but noneless smaller and different copies of the universe birt itself... I mean look around you, there is a pathern on every thing, and at the lower scale we, complex life are the result... So if you ask me if the chicken knows what their egg needs, and take care of them, and so where the dinnosaurs, and I picked up the reptiles cause they seem to be the most primitive concious life to have existed in the early days so one could say that their concients where not given by ancestors concept, but taught how to be by the planet itself, something like "here, hey dinnosaurs, this is the way I reproduce my stars, you exist within me, you should do the same", and who could say it didn't work for milions of years... The big question should be did the universe expontainely created itself or it was produced? As a experiment you train your dog, it doesn't need to know the awnser it just need to see what please its owners the most... It's a perspective, and any of us could have many points of view and we all don't know, whitch creates a mind blow fact, if none of us, concietious beings can cactually know, the universe concious became what we decided it to be, and every single one of us would be correct, and due the infinite amount of possibilities, we all would be correct at the same time, and universe concius would "trully" become, what we want to see.. If whe need to see with eyes and sensors, not at all, it will be there anyway, and inevitable life in the cosmos would reapear, evolve and colonize again and again, and whith the right knoledge, you, me and any concious beings can shape and give born to worlds, and thises worlds like ours, earth itself, has become what we planed for it, one could say that from the name to the surfaces functions the planet only exist duea and trought our individual and coletive concious... The question you should be asking yourself should be, what would have become of earth if, since the begining, threes wouldn't have died and acumulated, if fishes do not eath the plancton and the plancton its own share and so it goes, it would basiclly have changed many events that occured on earth during billions of years, would Earth is still exist? I mean the blue water planet, or the oxigen that they and we didn't breat by not have existed would have chained other trillion of different possible scenarios that would in the big scale have killed earth? The execive minerals that the trees wouldn't have filtered, the co2 that they wouldn't have trapped, the water all the living beings wouldn't have drink... If Earth would have be affected by all this non-events? Sure...It's most obvious that the main purpose of complex life is to have means to observe the enviroment and shape it, change it, the planet is mater and our bodies are made from the same stuff, we where born from the planet, from the cosmic system, and are concious? Self-aware? Do you have a name? Do you have a familie or others entities that you care about and do you shape your enviroment? Well the human artificial concept is the miss understanding, we are made of mater, no mater if we are very comples, we came from the planet, we are both made from the same stuff, we are than the same as planets that are not rounded and have arms, brains, hands, feets, but noneless made of mater and born from it, so I mean look around you... You born from Earth and if all life cease to exist, menas that the planet failed, death is a example, your body will be burried, doesn't mean that your conciense didn't existed and without records one could never prove, but than again you sepulture would have a name wrote on it, a physical prove that you have being concious at some point in time, and so could bethose planets out there, maybe they are just like dead bodies now, doesn't mean that they wheren't alive and so may other still can became, as long there is heat out there someone would be observing, thus existing...
It's alright man, you're right it's not native still getting used to it, I wrote down in 10 minutes, corrected now.. But gladly you took in considerations, the thing is there is no universe, like a infinite vast space, what are out there are local spheres with different temperatures, thus different density, one inside the other, there is no universe, there are spheres in infinite lower scales and also higher scales... The question from the human perspective should be "Does the conscious observer needs a universe to exist?"
Only if being exist is interpreted as being consciously observed.So, what is sure is that the universe needs a conscious observer for it to be consciously observed. AFAIK, no conscious observer was around before cambrian explosion, but that doesn't mean that the earth didn't exist back then.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 26/06/2016 06:21:53Only if being exist is interpreted as being consciously observed.So, what is sure is that the universe needs a conscious observer for it to be consciously observed. AFAIK, no conscious observer was around before cambrian explosion, but that doesn't mean that the earth didn't exist back then.There were plenty conscious observers before the Cambrian explosion , why pick that particular epoch for the emergence of consciousness for the entire universe?
Quote from: Alan McDougall on 26/06/2016 13:00:01Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 26/06/2016 06:21:53Only if being exist is interpreted as being consciously observed.So, what is sure is that the universe needs a conscious observer for it to be consciously observed. AFAIK, no conscious observer was around before cambrian explosion, but that doesn't mean that the earth didn't exist back then.There were plenty conscious observers before the Cambrian explosion , why pick that particular epoch for the emergence of consciousness for the entire universe?I just wanna make sure we are using the same definition of consciousness. Only then we can go to discuss further.Consciousness is the state or quality of awareness, or, of being aware of an external object or something within oneself. It has been defined as: sentience, awareness, subjectivity, the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the mind.
The only evidence we have of the existence of conscious observers is limited to some very unstable chemistry happening in the recent history of one quite small planet, so it would be absurd to suggest that the existence of the entire universe depended on this cosmically insignificant event within it.
Do you need a conscious observer internal to yourself to exist?Edit: You can't say bacteria unless you can count them as a conscious observer.