How complete is the standard model?

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Offline jeffreyH

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How complete is the standard model?
« on: 27/06/2016 16:32:11 »
I would imagine that we could never actually determine if a model is complete. Having said that there is no firm evidence of the graviton so that is absent but what else is thought to be missing from the model?

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Online Thebox

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #1 on: 28/06/2016 10:25:31 »
I would imagine that we could never actually determine if a model is complete. Having said that there is no firm evidence of the graviton so that is absent but what else is thought to be missing from the model?

By standard model what do you mean exactly Jeff?



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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #2 on: 29/06/2016 22:21:04 »
Sorry I missed your reply. See here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model

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Online Thebox

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #3 on: 29/06/2016 23:23:50 »
Sorry I missed your reply. See here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model

Thank you for the interesting link, so in short the standard model is just what particles we think exist?


Your link says the model is incomplete because the mechanism of gravity is missing.


Quarks have mass? 


Quarks are adjoined to Quarks by gravity or the strong nuclear force?



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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #4 on: 29/06/2016 23:38:47 »
Quarks are confined in protons and neutrons by the strong nuclear force. The force carrier is the gluon. The graviton has been proposed to be like a double copy gluon. Like two gluons acting together. I can't tell you anything about this since I have done very little research into it. It is a very interesting subject.

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Online Thebox

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #5 on: 29/06/2016 23:51:45 »
Quarks are confined in protons and neutrons by the strong nuclear force. The force carrier is the gluon. The graviton has been proposed to be like a double copy gluon. Like two gluons acting together. I can't tell you anything about this since I have done very little research into it. It is a very interesting subject.



Quarks are confined in protons?  Surely you mean Quarks make up the Proton?  Unless I have read that ambiguously in which I then apologise.

What do you mean by the force carrier?   Surely any particle which has mass no matter how small or how early elementary on the model, is still attracted to other particles by it's mass?

What if this strange force of gravity was the same force that holds  Quarks adjoined together?, but once 3 Quarks adjoin they emit some sort of ''energy'' field that stops any more Quarks joining? (3 quarks are the right amount of ''strength'')


I just think that my Quarks in my body must be attracted to the Quarks of the Ground by this strange force contained in the Quarks?



« Last Edit: 29/06/2016 23:56:56 by Thebox »

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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #6 on: 30/06/2016 00:30:17 »
Quarks are confined in protons and neutrons by the strong nuclear force. The force carrier is the gluon. The graviton has been proposed to be like a double copy gluon. Like two gluons acting together. I can't tell you anything about this since I have done very little research into it. It is a very interesting subject.



Quarks are confined in protons?  Surely you mean Quarks make up the Proton?  Unless I have read that ambiguously in which I then apologise.

You've got me there. I stand corrected.

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What do you mean by the force carrier?   Surely any particle which has mass no matter how small or how early elementary on the model, is still attracted to other particles by it's mass?

What if this strange force of gravity was the same force that holds  Quarks adjoined together?, but once 3 Quarks adjoin they emit some sort of ''energy'' field that stops any more Quarks joining? (3 quarks are the right amount of ''strength'')


I just think that my Quarks in my body must be attracted to the Quarks of the Ground by this strange force contained in the Quarks?

You are not that far off the mark. A force carrier is what causes an attraction or repulsion. The photon, gluon and graviton are all force carriers. The photon carries the electromagnetic force. The gluon carries the strong nuclear force. The graviton carries the gravitational force.

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Online Thebox

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #7 on: 30/06/2016 07:21:52 »
Quarks are confined in protons and neutrons by the strong nuclear force. The force carrier is the gluon. The graviton has been proposed to be like a double copy gluon. Like two gluons acting together. I can't tell you anything about this since I have done very little research into it. It is a very interesting subject.



Quarks are confined in protons?  Surely you mean Quarks make up the Proton?  Unless I have read that ambiguously in which I then apologise.

You've got me there. I stand corrected.

Quote
What do you mean by the force carrier?   Surely any particle which has mass no matter how small or how early elementary on the model, is still attracted to other particles by it's mass?

What if this strange force of gravity was the same force that holds  Quarks adjoined together?, but once 3 Quarks adjoin they emit some sort of ''energy'' field that stops any more Quarks joining? (3 quarks are the right amount of ''strength'')


I just think that my Quarks in my body must be attracted to the Quarks of the Ground by this strange force contained in the Quarks?

You are not that far off the mark. A force carrier is what causes an attraction or repulsion. The photon, gluon and graviton are all force carriers. The photon carries the electromagnetic force. The gluon carries the strong nuclear force. The graviton carries the gravitational force.
Ok thanks, so what is the distinguishable difference between a gluon and a graviton?

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Online Colin2B

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #8 on: 30/06/2016 08:51:01 »
Ok thanks, so what is the distinguishable difference between a gluon and a graviton?
The difference in in the distance that act over.
Gluons were given their name because they act like a glue holding the quarks together, but like glue the distance they act over is very short - within the atom. Gravitons, gravity, on the other hand acts over very large distances eg earth to moon.

I have to agree with Jeff that your posts have been much more understandable recently (darkness excluded) and you are asking some sensible questions. Congratulations.
and the misguided shall lead the gullible,
the feebleminded have inherited the earth.

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Online Thebox

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #9 on: 30/06/2016 09:24:05 »
Ok thanks, so what is the distinguishable difference between a gluon and a graviton?
The difference in in the distance that act over.
Gluons were given their name because they act like a glue holding the quarks together, but like glue the distance they act over is very short - within the atom. Gravitons, gravity, on the other hand acts over very large distances eg earth to moon.

I have to agree with Jeff that your posts have been much more understandable recently (darkness excluded) and you are asking some sensible questions. Congratulations.

ok, so a Quark ''contains'' a Gluon and a Graviton?

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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #10 on: 30/06/2016 11:51:10 »
The gluons bind the quarks together so it is the other way round. The other thing to bear in mind is that gluons resist the movement of quarks away from each other. So the further two quarks are away from each other the greater the force of the gluon pulling them back together. This is on a very very small scale and the gluons have a range that falls roughly within the radius of a nucleon. You may need to ask others for a more technical explanation.

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Online Thebox

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #11 on: 30/06/2016 12:10:20 »
The gluons bind the quarks together so it is the other way round. The other thing to bear in mind is that gluons resist the movement of quarks away from each other. So the further two quarks are away from each other the greater the force of the gluon pulling them back together. This is on a very very small scale and the gluons have a range that falls roughly within the radius of a nucleon. You may need to ask others for a more technical explanation.


Ok, so you are saying that Gluon's are attracted to a Quark and then this ''super glue'' attracts other Quarks and ''glues'' them together with a strong elastic type bond?


It does not sound right to me and you have still not mentioned what role gravity of a Quark has on other quarks?






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Offline Alan McDougall

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #12 on: 30/06/2016 13:15:59 »
The gluons bind the quarks together so it is the other way round. The other thing to bear in mind is that gluons resist the movement of quarks away from each other. So the further two quarks are away from each other the greater the force of the gluon pulling them back together. This is on a very very small scale and the gluons have a range that falls roughly within the radius of a nucleon. You may need to ask others for a more technical explanation.

The Standard Model does not include the unification of all forces and is incomplete.

There might exist a sort of a Grand Unified Field Theory, that will provide an even deeper insight than the Standard Model to bring together all its missing elements.

The Standard Model by extrapolation might lead to the elusive "Theory of Everything" TOE, if indeed such an equation exists, which I doubt?

How could one albeit beautiful equation TOE, explain the existence of the universe? Maybe TOE is God?
The Truth remains the Truth regardless of our beliefs or opinions the Truth is always the Truth even if we know it or do not know it (The Truth remains the Truth)

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Online Thebox

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Re: How complete is the standard model?
« Reply #13 on: 30/06/2016 13:58:55 »
Maybe TOE is God?

V.E.W.U.e

Volume, energy, work, universe , existence, unless a ''God'' can exist without existing in a volume of space, then space is the prime alpha of existence.

However that takes us off the discussion we are discussing in this thread. If you wish to discuss that  please make another thread and title accordingly.