The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Member Map
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. General Science
  3. General Science
  4. How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Down

How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?

  • 11 Replies
  • 2845 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jerrygg38 (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1032
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 33 times
    • View Profile
How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« on: 27/08/2016 00:32:07 »
How can you tell if you are standing still in outer space?
   You have fancy telescopes in your spaceship and you read the redshift to all the far stars. If they are all balanced equally then it appears that you are standing still. That seems to be one method. Can you make an absolute velocity sensor?  If we moved at very high speeds near 20 percent of the speed of light, no doubt there would be certain non-linearity’s  that could occur. The physical structures within the space ship and the properties of light may make sensors possible. Have any scientists proposed such devices?
Logged
 



Offline PhysBang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 706
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 21 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« Reply #1 on: 27/08/2016 01:53:30 »
You are always free to assume that you are not in motion. It is an arbitrary choice.
Logged
Naked Scientists values: support moderators who try to demean posters by suggesting that they are Catholic, support moderators who ignore homophobic and transphobic threads, support moderators who promote climate change denial.
 

Offline jerrygg38 (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1032
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 33 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« Reply #2 on: 27/08/2016 13:51:58 »
Quote from: PhysBang on 27/08/2016 01:53:30
You are always free to assume that you are not in motion. It is an arbitrary choice.
  It is not only an arbitrary choice but long ago scientists were threatened with the bonfire if they denied that the Earth was not the center of the universe and everything revolved around it.
   If you were traveling at 0.5C all the far stars in front of you would be very blue and all the far stars behind you would be much redder. Since most spaceships travel very slowly you would need very accurate telescopes and computer programs to find your speed compared to the far stars. But that is possible.
Logged
 

Offline dlorde

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1453
  • Activity:
    0.5%
  • Thanked: 11 times
  • ex human-biologist & software developer
    • View Profile
Re: How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« Reply #3 on: 27/08/2016 14:48:03 »
Quote from: jerrygg38 on 27/08/2016 00:32:07
...Can you make an absolute velocity sensor?
No, because there's no such thing as absolute velocity. All velocities are relative to some frame. For example, you may have zero velocity relative to the Earth, or to the galaxy, etc. Blame Einstein, it's his fault [;)]
Logged
 

Offline Tim the Plumber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 450
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 11 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« Reply #4 on: 27/08/2016 16:40:40 »
Quote from: dlorde on 27/08/2016 14:48:03
Quote from: jerrygg38 on 27/08/2016 00:32:07
...Can you make an absolute velocity sensor?
No, because there's no such thing as absolute velocity. All velocities are relative to some frame. For example, you may have zero velocity relative to the Earth, or to the galaxy, etc. Blame Einstein, it's his fault [;)]

Galileo Galileo was responsible for this one. Basic relativity. Einstein did the weird stuff about time being relative to something or other....
Logged
 



Offline Ethos_

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1332
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 17 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« Reply #5 on: 27/08/2016 17:38:15 »
Quote from: PhysBang on 27/08/2016 01:53:30
You are always free to assume that you are not in motion. It is an arbitrary choice.
This is only true if you're not also accelerating or decelerating. In either case, accelerating or decelerating can be registered as changes in inertial forces relative to your personal frame.
Logged
"The more things change, the more they remain the same."
 

Offline jeffreyH

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 6807
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 174 times
  • The graviton sucks
    • View Profile
Re: How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« Reply #6 on: 27/08/2016 17:42:13 »
Postulate 1 All velocities are relative.
Postulate 2 There must always be velocities that are faster or slower than the velocity of the local frame.
Postulate 3 Absolute zero velocity cannot be achieved.
Logged
Even the most obstinately ignorant cannot avoid learning when in an environment that educates.
 

Offline dlorde

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1453
  • Activity:
    0.5%
  • Thanked: 11 times
  • ex human-biologist & software developer
    • View Profile
Re: How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« Reply #7 on: 27/08/2016 19:34:15 »
Quote from: jeffreyH on 27/08/2016 17:42:13
Postulate 2 There must always be velocities that are faster or slower than the velocity of the local frame.
Faster or slower than the local frame relative to what? If the local frame is stationary relative to, for example, the Earth, there will not be a slower velocity than the local frame, relative to the Earth... There could be faster velocities, but I don't see how that would help for Postulate 3 (shouldn't P3 be the Conclusion?)
« Last Edit: 27/08/2016 19:38:03 by dlorde »
Logged
 

Offline jeffreyH

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 6807
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 174 times
  • The graviton sucks
    • View Profile
Re: How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« Reply #8 on: 27/08/2016 20:10:28 »
This should be considered with reference to the number line where positive and negative values for velocity need to be taken into account. If we consider an inertial frame at rest then no direction is preferred so the concept of a slower velocity is undefined. If we choose one direction as preferred then the postulates make sense. This can be an arbitrary choice.
Logged
Even the most obstinately ignorant cannot avoid learning when in an environment that educates.
 



Offline syhprum

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 5066
  • Activity:
    8.5%
  • Thanked: 64 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« Reply #9 on: 27/08/2016 21:02:44 »
the only thing I can think of to which you could measure your relative motion would be the CMBR.
We are not allowed Aether any more.
Logged
syhprum
 

Offline jerrygg38 (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1032
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 33 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« Reply #10 on: 28/08/2016 20:04:38 »
Quote from: dlorde on 27/08/2016 14:48:03
Quote from: jerrygg38 on 27/08/2016 00:32:07
...Can you make an absolute velocity sensor?
No, because there's no such thing as absolute velocity. All velocities are relative to some frame. For example, you may have zero velocity relative to the Earth, or to the galaxy, etc. Blame Einstein, it's his fault [;)]
   Thanks for the laugh. Yes we have an Einsteinian God who appeared before us over a hundred years ago and explained his universe to us. Unfortunately I am a heretic and destined to an anti-Einsteinian world of the dead. Thus I believe in absolute velocity.
Logged
 

Offline jerrygg38 (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1032
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 33 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can you tell if your spaceship is standing still in outer space?
« Reply #11 on: 28/08/2016 20:44:57 »
Quote from: syhprum on 27/08/2016 21:02:44
the only thing I can think of to which you could measure your relative motion would be the CMBR.
We are not allowed Aether any more.
  What is CMBR? If an object was radiating electromagnetic waves, it would be moving C+V or C-V relative to the bubble of waves. Yet there is no way to measure this. The Aether seems okay to me but it is not stationary. Thus we have moving gravitational fields and moving electromagnetic fields. If the absolute center is where the big bang occurred, everything has an absolute velocity relative to this point. However this point is not on our present universe. To make matters worse, it appears to me that everything is moving at close to the speed of light C with respect to this absolute point. And this does not seem to affect anything within our universe. Then we are left with relativity as the best  fit approximation for the way all the moving fields operate.
Logged
 



  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 

Similar topics (5)

Can anything be "still" in space?

Started by SeanyBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 31
Views: 13429
Last post 31/12/2017 16:56:38
by jeffreyH
Is "Space" distinct from "nothingness"? (and the Vacuum)

Started by geordiefBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 36
Views: 3877
Last post 30/06/2019 22:47:32
by pensador
We Know The Extent Of The Sun, What Is The Extent Of Space Time?

Started by TitanscapeBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 2
Views: 10993
Last post 27/04/2008 23:10:10
by turnipsock
If the Universe is expanding, does this mean that space is expanding?

Started by EthosBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 14
Views: 11696
Last post 27/03/2020 21:05:55
by yor_on
Is a stationary object in space really stationary?

Started by chintanBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 20
Views: 10517
Last post 19/03/2020 14:55:35
by Paul25
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.188 seconds with 65 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.