Do viruses exist?

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #50 on: 15/09/2016 02:30:05 »
... Why don't you use a 200 year graph which would be more useful? 

Why didn't you Google that graph yourself ? ...


https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy/

Cancer is not a disease of old age. Young babies can get cancer.

I never said exclusively, I said primarily old age. look at the graph below: cancer occurs at all ages, but it's incidence rises steeply with age ...


http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics/incidence/age#heading-Zero

Most cancer diagnoses are in retired-people (i.e. older than 65).

Cancer is a disease of cell dysfunction due to an abnormal diet ...

And corrective "dietary supplements" are all available via NaturalNews* , at extortionate prices.
[* who have taken advantage of your paranoia and brainwashed you to buy & push their products ].

You've spent too much time down Mike's gopher hole.

The graph just shows that people die of cancer at the exact same rate as any other form of death, so there is nothing exceptional about it. You have to die of something!
The deception is that the medical system puts a name to specific diseases. There is a list of thousands of diseases and treatments for these diseases. But, in reality, there is only one disease, which is VITAMIN DEFICIENCY. Therein lies the deception.
Note - The cost of cancer treatment is thousands of times more expensive than normal treatment. When you get cancer, they will give you some kind of diluted form of arsenic which they will give a fancy name to, so as to disguise what the real contents are. Note - Diluted arsenic doesn't cost thousands of dollars! It only costs a few cents to produce.
Thus, your complaint that naturopathic medicine is too expensive is totally unprecedented.

Life expectancy has increased due to new technology like sewerage works, refrigeration, electricity, trains, buses, air travel, water filtration, dams, irrigation etc. It has nothing to do with vaccination or any other medical procedure. The low life expectancy before 1890 was due to unsanitary living conditions, no refrigeration of food supply, poor sewerage system, pollution of water supply and lack of nutrition and knowledge of what constitutes good nutrition. Sugar, grain, alcohol and dairy being the cause of most early deaths at this time.
« Last Edit: 15/09/2016 02:39:07 by Atkhenaken »

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #51 on: 15/09/2016 20:42:35 »
Things like better sewers  increase lifespan because they carry away dangerous viruses.

Arsenic is seldom used to treat cancer

It is known to cause it too.
cancer.http://www.toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Arsenic+Poisoning+in+Bangladesh

They don't give it a fancy name; they call it arsenic trioxide- because that's what it is.
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/cancers-in-general/treatment/cancer-drugs/arsenic
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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #52 on: 15/09/2016 21:07:37 »
Life expectancy has increased due to new technology like sewerage works, refrigeration, electricity, trains, buses, air travel, water filtration, dams, irrigation etc. It has nothing to do with vaccination or any other medical procedure. The low life expectancy before 1890 was due to unsanitary living conditions, no refrigeration of food supply, poor sewerage system, pollution of water supply and lack of nutrition and knowledge of what constitutes good nutrition. Sugar, grain, alcohol and dairy being the cause of most early deaths at this time.

I have used boldface font to emphasize the parts of your post that help us argue that germ-caused diseases were addressed by technology, leading to increased life expectancy. Thank you.

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #53 on: 16/09/2016 01:30:28 »
Life expectancy has increased due to new technology like sewerage works, refrigeration, electricity, trains, buses, air travel, water filtration, dams, irrigation etc. It has nothing to do with vaccination or any other medical procedure. The low life expectancy before 1890 was due to unsanitary living conditions, no refrigeration of food supply, poor sewerage system, pollution of water supply and lack of nutrition and knowledge of what constitutes good nutrition. Sugar, grain, alcohol and dairy being the cause of most early deaths at this time.

I have used boldface font to emphasize the parts of your post that help us argue that germ-caused diseases were addressed by technology, leading to increased life expectancy. Thank you.

So YOU AGREE that there are NO GERMS OR VIRUSES which cause disease and that it is only rotten food that causes disease. Thanks for your confirmation!

You have cherry picked the all the conformist ideas which I would expect from a moderator.

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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #54 on: 16/09/2016 01:44:51 »
So YOU AGREE that there are NO GERMS OR VIRUSES which cause disease and that it is only rotten food that causes disease. Thanks for your confirmation!

No, I do NOT AGREE. It can very easily be shown that rotten food causes disease because of the GERMS that live on it, and sewage is host to all manner of BACTERIA and that mosquitos transmit VIRUSES, BACTERIA and PROTISTS. Thanks for playing!

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #55 on: 16/09/2016 01:54:56 »
Things like better sewers  increase lifespan because they carry away dangerous viruses.

It was never been proven that viruses exist. So how can you take away something that doesn't exist. Note - I have worked in an electron microscope unit, so don't try to bluff me with garbage.

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Arsenic is seldom used to treat cancer

Maybe true, but they must include some kind of other toxic chemical to 'kill' the cancer. The whole approach is wrong though. The concept that 'the body' itself as 'the enemy' is a faulty concept. They are just covering up for the food industry and pharmaceutical industries which pumps out toxic chemicals and adds them to foods. All chemo therapy treatments contain either heavy metal toxins or halogen toxins. These may include arsenic, chlorine, fluorine or bromine. Note - These chemicals all cause cancer. Thus, they use the same chemicals to treat cancer as the ones that cause cancer. This is standard lunacy of the medical system. The reality is that people who have cancer are an embarrassment to the government and a constant reminder of their faulty policies. Thus, they want to dispose of these embarrassments as soon as possible. What better way to dispose of an embarrassment than to use the same causative agents.

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They don't give it a fancy name; they call it arsenic trioxide- because that's what it is.
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/cancers-in-general/treatment/cancer-drugs/arsenic

I have never heard a doctor say - "We are going to inject you with some arsenic now, don't worry, its for your own good, it will make you better, lol, good luck!"

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #56 on: 16/09/2016 02:06:50 »
So YOU AGREE that there are NO GERMS OR VIRUSES which cause disease and that it is only rotten food that causes disease. Thanks for your confirmation!

No, I do NOT AGREE. It can very easily be shown that rotten food causes disease because of the GERMS that live on it, and sewage is host to all manner of BACTERIA and that mosquitos transmit VIRUSES, BACTERIA and PROTISTS. Thanks for playing!

These germs that are found in rotten food - where did they come from?

Health is all about harnessing good bacteria over bad bacteria. Bacteria belong in the lower intestine, not in the upper intestine. If you put bad bacteria in the upper intestine it will cause leaky gut syndrome and you will get sick.

http://bodyecology.com/articles/dr.-oz%E2%80%99s-leaky-gut-protocol-what-works-and-what%E2%80%99s-missing

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Offline RD

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #57 on: 16/09/2016 10:19:06 »
http://bodyecology.com/articles/dr.-oz

You're quoting Dr. Oz ! , see ... http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dr_Oz#Pigasus_Award

The graph just shows that people die of cancer at the exact same rate as any other form of death, so there is nothing exceptional about it.

The graph shows that the incidence of cancer increases steeply with age : so it's very rare in children, but common in the elderly. The graph did not compare cancer with other "forms" of death , (death from road traffic accidents would have a completely different age distribution, not "exact same rate").

... they must include some kind of other toxic chemical to 'kill' the cancer.

Viruses, which you claim don't exist, are also used to preferentially kill cancer cells, see ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncolytic_virus


... in reality, there is only one disease, which is VITAMIN DEFICIENCY ...

So that means genetic illness & disease caused by bacteria , helminths  , protozoans, (along with viruses) are fictional , according to you.

I think we should have you French-kiss a person with Ebola to prove your point.
« Last Edit: 16/09/2016 11:18:10 by RD »

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #58 on: 16/09/2016 15:58:27 »
So YOU AGREE that there are NO GERMS OR VIRUSES which cause disease and that it is only rotten food that causes disease. Thanks for your confirmation!

No, I do NOT AGREE. It can very easily be shown that rotten food causes disease because of the GERMS that live on it, and sewage is host to all manner of BACTERIA and that mosquitos transmit VIRUSES, BACTERIA and PROTISTS. Thanks for playing!

These germs that are found in rotten food - where did they come from?

Health is all about harnessing good bacteria over bad bacteria. Bacteria belong in the lower intestine, not in the upper intestine. If you put bad bacteria in the upper intestine it will cause leaky gut syndrome and you will get sick.

http://bodyecology.com/articles/dr.-oz%E2%80%99s-leaky-gut-protocol-what-works-and-what%E2%80%99s-missing

Unless you are in the habit of giving yourself an enema with dirty water, there's no way for the bacteria to get to the bottom end of the gut except through the top end- so your plan makes no sense.
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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #59 on: 17/09/2016 01:49:23 »


Health is all about harnessing good bacteria over bad bacteria. Bacteria belong in the lower intestine, not in the upper intestine. If you put bad bacteria in the upper intestine it will cause leaky gut syndrome and you will get sick.

http://bodyecology.com/articles/dr.-oz%E2%80%99s-leaky-gut-protocol-what-works-and-what%E2%80%99s-missing
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Unless you are in the habit of giving yourself an enema with dirty water, there's no way for the bacteria to get to the bottom end of the gut except through the top end- so your plan makes no sense.

Extract from a medical textbook -

Composition and Distribution of the Intestinal Microflora

The intestinal microflora is a complex ecosystem containing over 400 bacterial species. Anaerobes outnumber facultative anaerobes. The flora is sparse in the stomach and upper intestine, but luxuriant in the lower bowel. Bacteria occur both in the lumen and attached to the mucosa, but do not normally penetrate the bowel wall .

I rest my case! Makes no sense........... eh?

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Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #60 on: 17/09/2016 02:09:21 »
sparse ≠ nonexistent

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #61 on: 17/09/2016 02:11:48 »

So that means genetic illness & disease caused by bacteria , helminths  , protozoans, (along with viruses) are fictional , according to you.

I think we should have you French-kiss a person with Ebola to prove your point.


When are you guys gonna stop protecting the pharmaceutical industry from litigation and from constantly poisoning the general public with pesticides and then blaming it all on invisible and non-existent viruses?

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2014/10/21/another-missing-ebola-factor-pesticides/

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Offline RD

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #62 on: 17/09/2016 08:17:37 »
... the pharmaceutical industry from litigation and from constantly poisoning the general public with pesticides and then blaming it all on invisible and non-existent viruses?

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2014/10/21/another-missing-ebola-factor-pesticides/

Jon is loony-tunes ... http://americanloons.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/1050-jon-rappoport.html

Jon don't like GMOs.  Guess what's used to make GMOs ? ,
Clue: 5 letters, begins with a "v", and you don't believe they exist.

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #63 on: 17/09/2016 12:11:21 »


When are you guys gonna stop protecting the pharmaceutical industry from litigation and from constantly poisoning the general public with pesticides and then blaming it all on invisible and non-existent viruses?


When are you going to start thinking about stuff before you post?
The pharmaceutical industry isn't related  to pesticide production.

Viruses are visible- I cited a picture earlier.

The diseases existed before pharmacy- and now the pharmaceuticals treat the diseases.
That's why we live longer.
That's how we wiped out smallpox.
That's why people still get sick, even if they take vitamins.

None of your claims makes any sense.
Please disregard all previous signatures.

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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #64 on: 17/09/2016 23:28:06 »
When are you guys gonna stop protecting the pharmaceutical industry from litigation and from constantly poisoning the general public with pesticides

Got peer-reviewed evidence?

I need something to wash the BS down with.

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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #65 on: 18/09/2016 00:44:16 »
but they must include some kind of other toxic chemical to 'kill' the cancer.

There are other alternatives which are not systemically cytotoxic: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=intravenous+curcumin+cancer


The whole approach is wrong though. The concept that 'the body' itself as 'the enemy' is a faulty concept.

That's not the "approach" at all. The proliferation of malignant cells is "the enemy".

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #66 on: 18/09/2016 03:28:09 »

Jon is loony-tunes ... http://americanloons.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/1050-jon-rappoport.html

Jon don't like GMOs.  Guess what's used to make GMOs ? ,
Clue: 5 letters, begins with a "v", and you don't believe they exist.

Of course! Any dictatorship will label its dissenters as 'loony'. That's all part of the deception and brainwashing techniques that they use to control and manipulate.

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #67 on: 18/09/2016 03:38:44 »

When are you going to start thinking about stuff before you post?
The pharmaceutical industry isn't related  to pesticide production.

10,000 reasons why you are wrong lol!

http://npic.orst.edu/ingred/manuf.htm

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Viruses are visible- I cited a picture earlier.

A picture of a glass jar with muddy water in it doesn't equate with evidence.

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The diseases existed before pharmacy- and now the pharmaceuticals treat the diseases.
That's why we live longer.
That's how we wiped out smallpox.
That's why people still get sick, even if they take vitamins.

None of your claims makes any sense.

All false information.
I have posted the distribution graphs of pesticides in West Africa which shows the true cause of Ebola.

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/category/ebola/

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #68 on: 18/09/2016 03:50:57 »

That's not the "approach" at all. The malignant cells are "the enemy".

Modern medicine operates on the basic principle that the human body is faulty and that only doctors know how to fix it. Unfortunately, it is the modern diet which causes 98 % of all disease. Thus, all their years of training on medical procedures has been wasted because they don't understand the basics of what causes the problems in the first place. The current system was developed hundreds of years ago when nothing was known about nutrition and vitamins and little has changed in this original concept. But, like any bureaucracy, it takes a revolution to change old redundant ideas. But, unfortunately, there is no money in the new system which would send most doctors to the poor house. Thus, the old system is here to stay! Too bad if millions have to die a premature death. Doctors need to support their huge egos and incomes.

http://ahealedplanet.net/medicine.htm
« Last Edit: 18/09/2016 06:02:55 by Atkhenaken »

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Offline RD

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #69 on: 18/09/2016 07:11:44 »
http://ahealedplanet.net/medicine.htm

Quote from: Wade Frazier
"Welcome to this website.  If you are interested in free energy, cancer cures ..."
http://ahealedplanet.net

Conspiracy-theories, like suppressed "free energy" &  suppressed cancer cures don't withstand any analysis , e.g. ...

Would America fight trillion-dollar wars in the middle-east to ensure supplies of energy in the form of mineral-oil, if "free energy" technology existed ?.

How does American-pharma-mafia suppress these cancer-cures in, say, China & North Korea ?.

Why should China & North Korea suppress these cancer-cures, to the detriment of their own people,  for the financial-benefit of capitalist pig-dogs in the USA ?


Only the paranoid would repeat this "suppression" nonsense.
« Last Edit: 18/09/2016 07:46:50 by RD »

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #70 on: 18/09/2016 09:45:40 »
http://ahealedplanet.net/medicine.htm

Quote from: Wade Frazier
"Welcome to this website.  If you are interested in free energy, cancer cures ..."
http://ahealedplanet.net

Conspiracy-theories, like suppressed "free energy" &  suppressed cancer cures don't withstand any analysis , e.g. ...

Would America fight trillion-dollar wars in the middle-east to ensure supplies of energy in the form of mineral-oil, if "free energy" technology existed ?.

How does American-pharma-mafia suppress these cancer-cures in, say, China & North Korea ?.

Why should China & North Korea suppress these cancer-cures, to the detriment of their own people,  for the financial-benefit of capitalist pig-dogs in the USA ?


Only the paranoid would repeat this "suppression" nonsense.

Just address the topic. 'The Medical Racket' reference. You are getting off track and becoming nonsensical.

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #71 on: 18/09/2016 10:30:46 »

When are you going to start thinking about stuff before you post?
The pharmaceutical industry isn't related  to pesticide production.

10,000 reasons why you are wrong lol!

http://npic.orst.edu/ingred/manuf.htm

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Viruses are visible- I cited a picture earlier.

A picture of a glass jar with muddy water in it doesn't equate with evidence.

Quote
The diseases existed before pharmacy- and now the pharmaceuticals treat the diseases.
That's why we live longer.
That's how we wiped out smallpox.
That's why people still get sick, even if they take vitamins.

None of your claims makes any sense.

All false information.
I have posted the distribution graphs of pesticides in West Africa which shows the true cause of Ebola.

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/category/ebola/

Since you don't know the difference between aspirin- as sold by pharmacy and weedkiller- as sold by agriculture, it is clear that you have no idea what you are talking about.

If you think muddy water is white, you are not paying attention to the real world.

It is not false to claim that we wiped out smallpox.
You know that and you are lying about it.
The same goes for the vitamins and lifespan.

"Jon" has been discredited already.

Please disregard all previous signatures.

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #72 on: 18/09/2016 10:32:42 »


Just address the topic. 'The Medical Racket' reference. You are getting off track and becoming nonsensical.

That's not the topic.
The topic is about viruses- which exist.
Please disregard all previous signatures.

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #73 on: 18/09/2016 10:50:36 »

If you think muddy water is white, you are not paying attention to the real world.

Water is white? You clearly have a kindergarten understanding of water. Water is clear - dummy!
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It is not false to claim that we wiped out smallpox.

 But, is it false to claim that small pox was a virus when they didn't have any electron microscopes 200 years ago. Thus, they didn't have a clue what was causing people to die. But, now we know that it was just volcanic ash that was destroying the agricultural products which resulted in mass starvation and vitamin deficiency.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/3301214/Biblical-plagues-and-parting-of-Red-Sea-caused-by-volcano.html


Quote
You know that and you are lying about it.
The same goes for the vitamins and lifespan.

You can test my theory yourself. Just stop eating dairy, sugar and grain and you will have no further illnesses, headaches, stomach aches, arthritis, blocked nose and other so called 'flu like symptoms'.

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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #74 on: 18/09/2016 12:03:36 »
I have posted the distribution graphs of pesticides in West Africa which shows the true cause of Ebola.

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/category/ebola/

QUOTES FROM YOUR LINK:  "there is no proof that HIV exists."

"there is no proof of the isolation of a retrovirus from AIDS patients. [HIV is said to be a retrovirus]"



lol.... Try using references that aren't chock full o' manure.


Science. 1986 Jul 18;233(4761):343-6.
Isolation of a new human retrovirus from West African patients with AIDS.
Clavel F, Guétard D, Brun-Vézinet F, Chamaret S, Rey MA, Santos-Ferreira MO, Laurent AG, Dauguet C, Katlama C, Rouzioux C, et al.

The etiological agent of AIDS, LAV/HTLV-III, is common in Central Africa but is not endemic in other areas of that continent. A novel human retrovirus, distinct from LAV/HTLV-III, has now been isolated from two AIDS patients from West Africa. Partial characterization of this virus revealed that it has biological and morphological properties very similar to LAV but that it differs in some of its antigenic components. Although the core antigens may share some common epitopes, the West African AIDS retrovirus and LAV differ substantially in their envelope glycoproteins. The envelope antigen of the West African virus can be recognized by serum from a macaque with simian AIDS infected by the simian retrovirus termed STLV-IIImac, suggesting that the West African AIDS virus may be more closely related to this simian virus than to LAV. Hybridization experiments with LAV subgenomic probes further established that this new retrovirus, here referred to as LAV-II, is distantly related to LAV and distinct from STLV-IIImac.
PMID: 2425430

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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #75 on: 18/09/2016 12:28:18 »
A picture of a glass jar with muddy water in it doesn't equate with evidence.




Color-enhanced Transmission Electron Micrograph..... I guess you didn't get the memo.

http://cdn-http.innerbody.com/sites/default/files/HIV%20virions.png


~

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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #76 on: 18/09/2016 12:44:41 »
So what causes disease then? The answer is that the modern diet is responsible. Sugar, grain, dairy and alcohol are all unnatural products which the human digestive system can't cope with and many people get sick because of this. That accounts for 98% of all disease. The other 2% of disease can be blamed on consumption of fecal material, pesticides, fungicides, heavy metals and halogens. (chlorine, fluorine and bromine)
 

2 words = neonatal meningitis



~

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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #77 on: 18/09/2016 12:52:59 »
The evidence I presented dismantled your theory within 3 posts.

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #78 on: 18/09/2016 13:04:08 »
A picture of a glass jar with muddy water in it doesn't equate with evidence.




Color-enhanced Transmission Electron Micrograph..... I guess you didn't get the memo.

http://cdn-http.innerbody.com/sites/default/files/HIV%20virions.png


~

Looks like all natural cells to me. I don't see any viruses? Can be T-cells, B-cells, Natural Killer Cells, macrophages or mieloblasts.

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #79 on: 18/09/2016 13:08:02 »
So what causes disease then? The answer is that the modern diet is responsible. Sugar, grain, dairy and alcohol are all unnatural products which the human digestive system can't cope with and many people get sick because of this. That accounts for 98% of all disease. The other 2% of disease can be blamed on consumption of fecal material, pesticides, fungicides, heavy metals and halogens. (chlorine, fluorine and bromine)
 

2 words = neonatal meningitis



~

Huh?

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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #80 on: 18/09/2016 13:18:18 »
Looks like all natural cells to me. I don't see any viruses?


Suddenly I'm reminded of a Farrelly brothers movie.....



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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #81 on: 18/09/2016 13:30:58 »
So what causes disease then? The answer is that the modern diet is responsible. Sugar, grain, dairy and alcohol are all unnatural products which the human digestive system can't cope with and many people get sick because of this. That accounts for 98% of all disease. The other 2% of disease can be blamed on consumption of fecal material, pesticides, fungicides, heavy metals and halogens. (chlorine, fluorine and bromine)
 

2 words = neonatal meningitis



~

Huh?

Look up the etiology of neonatal meningitis.

Then try applying your warped theory.

Not happening.


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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #82 on: 18/09/2016 13:34:57 »
I have posted the distribution graphs of pesticides in West Africa which shows the true cause of Ebola.

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/category/ebola/

QUOTES FROM YOUR LINK:  "there is no proof that HIV exists."

"there is no proof of the isolation of a retrovirus from AIDS patients. [HIV is said to be a retrovirus]"



lol.... Try using references that aren't chock full o' manure.


Science. 1986 Jul 18;233(4761):343-6.
Isolation of a new human retrovirus from West African patients with AIDS.
Clavel F, Guétard D, Brun-Vézinet F, Chamaret S, Rey MA, Santos-Ferreira MO, Laurent AG, Dauguet C, Katlama C, Rouzioux C, et al.

The etiological agent of AIDS, LAV/HTLV-III, is common in Central Africa but is not endemic in other areas of that continent. A novel human retrovirus, distinct from LAV/HTLV-III, has now been isolated from two AIDS patients from West Africa. Partial characterization of this virus revealed that it has biological and morphological properties very similar to LAV but that it differs in some of its antigenic components. Although the core antigens may share some common epitopes, the West African AIDS retrovirus and LAV differ substantially in their envelope glycoproteins. The envelope antigen of the West African virus can be recognized by serum from a macaque with simian AIDS infected by the simian retrovirus termed STLV-IIImac, suggesting that the West African AIDS virus may be more closely related to this simian virus than to LAV. Hybridization experiments with LAV subgenomic probes further established that this new retrovirus, here referred to as LAV-II, is distantly related to LAV and distinct from STLV-IIImac.
PMID: 2425430

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #83 on: 18/09/2016 13:55:01 »

Look up the etiology of neonatal meningitis.

Then try applying your warped theory.

Not happening.

Still don't get what you are on about?

Try using more than two words to describe something. It should work wonders for you! lol!

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #84 on: 18/09/2016 14:30:07 »
A picture of a glass jar with muddy water in it doesn't equate with evidence.




Color-enhanced Transmission Electron Micrograph..... I guess you didn't get the memo.

http://cdn-http.innerbody.com/sites/default/files/HIV%20virions.png


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Looks like all natural cells to me. I don't see any viruses? Can be T-cells, B-cells, Natural Killer Cells, macrophages or mieloblasts.

Look carefully. They are highlighted in green for you.
(The scale is all wrong for the joke suggestions you made)
Please disregard all previous signatures.

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #85 on: 18/09/2016 14:33:42 »

Look up the etiology of neonatal meningitis.

Then try applying your warped theory.

Not happening.

Still don't get what you are on about?

Try using more than two words to describe something. It should work wonders for you! lol!
It doesn't matter how many words we use- because you ignore them anyway.
Perhaps you should go and work in a field hospital treating people with Ebola or some similar viral infection. Since there are no viruses, you won't need any protective equipment. You can turn up with lots of vitamins and, shortly afterwards, you will either be proved right- or (in all sensible probability, you will die.

Please disregard all previous signatures.

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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #86 on: 18/09/2016 14:34:45 »

Look up the etiology of neonatal meningitis.

Then try applying your warped theory.

Not happening.

Still don't get what you are on about?

Try using more than two words to describe something. It should work wonders for you! lol!

If viruses and pathogens don't exist, and....  "the modern diet accounts for 98% of all disease. The other 2% of disease can be blamed on consumption of fecal material, pesticides, fungicides, heavy metals and halogens....

Then how do you explain the etiology and/or pathogenesis of neonatal meningitis?



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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #87 on: 18/09/2016 14:47:19 »
I don't see any viruses? Can be T-cells, B-cells, Natural Killer Cells, macrophages or mieloblasts.

Like it or not.... the highlighted green are emergent/premature HIV-1 virions, confirmed via CTEM.

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #88 on: 18/09/2016 15:23:55 »


Looks like all natural cells to me. I don't see any viruses? Can be T-cells, B-cells, Natural Killer Cells, macrophages or mieloblasts.

Look carefully. They are highlighted in green for you.
(The scale is all wrong for the joke suggestions you made)
[/quote]

How do you know that they are HIV viruses?

1. Is it because somebody painted them a nice green colour for you?

2. Is It because because viruses are green?

3. Or is it because only HIV viruses look like little indistinctive anonymous blobs? lol!

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #89 on: 18/09/2016 15:26:23 »
I don't see any viruses? Can be T-cells, B-cells, Natural Killer Cells, macrophages or mieloblasts.

Like it or not.... the highlighted green are emergent/premature HIV-1 virions, confirmed via CTEM.

What distinguishes these from regular cells that might be found in blood?

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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #90 on: 18/09/2016 16:16:18 »
What distinguishes these from regular cells that might be found in blood?

virion (vī′rē-ŏn′, vîr′ē-)
A complete viral particle, consisting of RNA or DNA surrounded by a protein shell and constituting the infective form of a virus.


Pick up a textbook.

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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #91 on: 18/09/2016 17:10:26 »
Bored Chemist, Exothermic and others have provided ample sources that show that viruses do in fact exist. What exactly do you hope to prove here?
Fixation on the Einstein papers is a good definition of OCD.

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #92 on: 18/09/2016 17:46:56 »
I don't see any viruses? Can be T-cells, B-cells, Natural Killer Cells, macrophages or mieloblasts.

Like it or not.... the highlighted green are emergent/premature HIV-1 virions, confirmed via CTEM.

What distinguishes these from regular cells that might be found in blood?
Being a thousand times smaller
Being infections
Having different DNA
Please disregard all previous signatures.

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #93 on: 19/09/2016 01:16:42 »

virion (vī′rē-ŏn′, vîr′ē-)
A complete viral particle, consisting of RNA or DNA surrounded by a protein shell and constituting the infective form of a virus.


Pick up a textbook.

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So, now you are resorting to shouting in large bright red colours to prove your point. But your evidence is completely vacuous and lacking any detail or logic.

1. There is no size scale on the picture.

2. There is no description of what part of the body this is.

3. There are no distinguishing features which tell us that these are HIV viruses.

4. How can you distinguish or know that a virus is budding or not budding?

5. How can something that requires the internal mechanisms of a cell to grow; suddenly grow, outside of a cell environment?

All illogical nonsense!
« Last Edit: 19/09/2016 01:20:23 by Atkhenaken »

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #94 on: 19/09/2016 01:24:11 »

Being a thousand times smaller
Being infections
Having different DNA

1. No size scale indicated - Thus - False

2. Has never been duplicated in a petri dish using a medium from to separate individuals.  - Thus - False

3. Doesn't have any DNA - Thus - False

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #95 on: 19/09/2016 21:24:29 »
" No size scale indicated - Thus - False"
If I showed you a picture of a man with a mouse in his hand and said that the man was bigger than the mouse would you say that isn't true because he is not holding a ruler?
The size is indicated by the presence of a cell in the picture. The virus particles are about a thousand times smaller.
did you not understand that?


"Has never been duplicated in a petri dish using a medium from to separate individuals."
Yes it has. In particular with Norovirus because it's difficult to culture ( a recent breakthrough means they no longer have to use human volunteers.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160825172254.htm

" Doesn't have any DNA - Thus - False"
Yes they do. Here's an article about the chickenpox virus genome
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3413377/

It doesn't help when you say things that simply are not true.

It seems rude to ask but, do you have some sort of learning disorder that stops you understanding things like not needing a scale to see if one thing is bigger than another?

« Last Edit: 19/09/2016 21:29:58 by Bored chemist »
Please disregard all previous signatures.

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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #96 on: 20/09/2016 00:10:18 »

1. There is no size scale on the picture - Thus - False

lol.... Next?





2. There is no description of what part of the body this is.

That's because the virions are budding from a [cultured] lymphocyte genius.



3. There are no distinguishing features which tell us that these are HIV viruses.

lol....  The "distinguishing features" of the virus are well-documented, and that was merely a pic of the [early] stages of HIV-1 virion morphogenesis.



4. How can you distinguish or know that a virus is budding or not budding?

"Virion morphogenesis can be divided into three stages: assembly, wherein the virion is created and essential components are packaged; budding, wherein the virion crosses the plasma membrane and obtains its lipid envelope; and maturation, wherein the virion changes structure and becomes infectious." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3385941/



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Offline exothermic

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #97 on: 20/09/2016 00:17:58 »
5. How can something that requires the internal mechanisms of a cell to grow; suddenly grow, outside of a cell environment?



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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #98 on: 20/09/2016 01:38:29 »
" No size scale indicated - Thus - False"
If I showed you a picture of a man with a mouse in his hand and said that the man was bigger than the mouse would you say that isn't true because he is not holding a ruler?
The size is indicated by the presence of a cell in the picture. The virus particles are about a thousand times smaller.
did you not understand that?

Still no size scale! - Thus false. Unscientific idiotic nonsense! To be a scientist, you MUST use scientific methodologies. The reason they keep omitting size scale references is because they are committing a fraud and don't want to get caught!

Quote
"Has never been duplicated in a petri dish using a medium from to separate individuals."
Yes it has. In particular with Norovirus because it's difficult to culture ( a recent breakthrough means they no longer have to use human volunteers.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160825172254.htm

Norovirus - or other wise known as 'cruise ship disease'. People who travel on cruises eat and live like imbeciles with little sleep, too much alcohol, bad diet and very little exercise. Thus, this is the reason that they get sick and has nothing to do with viruses. Again - dairy, sugar and grain the main cause - resulting in leaky gut syndrome.

Quote
" Doesn't have any DNA - Thus - False"
Yes they do. Here's an article about the chickenpox virus genome
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3413377/

The whole virus identification process is a fraud. Separation of similar sized particles in a spinning test tube doesn't equate with a virus. Garbage!


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It seems rude to ask but, do you (ya) have some sort of learning disorder that stops you (ya) understanding things like not needing a scale to see if one thing is bigger than another (punk)?

Well do ya feel lucky punk? Well, do ya? ( Dirty Harry?) lol!

Do you have any more movie equivalent quips?

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Offline Atkhenaken

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Re: Do viruses exist?
« Reply #99 on: 20/09/2016 01:54:30 »

lol.... Next?

No reasonable reply - Thus, still false. Providing a bigger picture (enlarged) which doesn't include a size scale is still unscientific nonsense.





Quote

That's because the virions are budding from a [cultured] lymphocyte genius.

There are still no distinguishing features. The pictures vary significantly from the text book version where the viruses have small receptor attachments on the outside. Looks like small green cotton buds to me!

Quote
"Virion morphogenesis can be divided into three stages: assembly, wherein the virion is created and essential components are packaged; budding, wherein the virion crosses the plasma membrane and obtains its lipid envelope; and maturation, wherein the virion changes structure and becomes infectious." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3385941/

Its all just computer generated and fabricated nonsense to justify and prevent billions of dollars in litigation by the general public. Bad diet causes disease and that's that. Viruses are just normal body produced hormones and cells which the body uses to rid itself of unwanted pollution and garbage which the stupid person has allowed to enter their bodies. End of story! Get with it! Don't support criminal medical organisations and other fraudsters.