The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Member Map
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. Non Life Sciences
  3. Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology
  4. How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Down

How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?

  • 10 Replies
  • 2893 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Semaphore (OP)

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 98
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?
« on: 31/01/2017 16:14:45 »
Quite a lot, accordingly to research reported in SciAm. Mice irradiated with charged particles suffered substantial brain damage which resulted in mental impairment. We can probably forget (pun intended) going to Mars until we can a find a method of shielding the astronauts from the radiation.
Logged
 



Offline zx16

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 249
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 7 times
    • View Profile
Re: How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?
« Reply #1 on: 31/01/2017 17:38:13 »
But mice have tiny brains.  Whereas human brains are far superior.  Many thousands of times bigger in cerebral volume.

Won't this enable astronauts to safely absorb en-route cosmic radiation, which might knock out a mouse, but won't stop a valiant Mars crew from accomplishing a successful landing?
Logged
 

Offline Semaphore (OP)

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 98
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?
« Reply #2 on: 31/01/2017 18:00:44 »
Quote from: zx16 on 31/01/2017 17:38:13
But mice have tiny brains.  Whereas human brains are far superior.  Many thousands of times bigger in cerebral volume.

Won't this enable astronauts to safely absorb en-route cosmic radiation, which might knock out a mouse, but won't stop a valiant Mars crew from accomplishing a successful landing?

The conclusion of the article was that mice are similar enough to humans to give a good indication that the radiation would be a real problem for a Mars expedition, unless some form of shielding could be found.
Logged
 

Offline zx16

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 249
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 7 times
    • View Profile
Re: How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?
« Reply #3 on: 31/01/2017 18:28:05 »
Would a helmet made of lead block the cosmic-rays?
Logged
 

Offline Semaphore (OP)

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 98
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?
« Reply #4 on: 31/01/2017 18:54:52 »
Quote from: zx16 on 31/01/2017 18:28:05
Would a helmet made of lead block the cosmic-rays?

I've just re-read the article and it says that lead would work but would be impractical in space because of the weight. I don't have any idea how much lead would be needed, can anyone give an estimate?
Logged
 



Offline chiralSPO

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 3145
  • Activity:
    27%
  • Thanked: 392 times
    • View Profile
Re: How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?
« Reply #5 on: 31/01/2017 19:11:56 »
First, I don't think brain volume would help. The exposure is probably the result of a uniform bombardment such that each unit of volume gets the same number of hits per unit time. Since a significant portion of the cosmic rays could go right through without interacting I don't think the outer brain would offer any shielding to the inner brain, so the size of the brain will have no effect on the rate. A brain 100 times larger would also get 100 times more radiation.

I think that the amount of lead required to stop cosmic radiation in deep space is quite significant. You could shield the crew with stuff that already needs to come along for a long trip (people have proposed using water for protection).

One could also imagine using a large magnetic field to deflect charged particles just as the Earth's does. One would still need to worry about gamma rays and x-rays (and perhaps to a greater extent: if they are living near a particle accelerator, they can expect bremsstrahlung radiation).
Logged
 

Offline Semaphore (OP)

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 98
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?
« Reply #6 on: 31/01/2017 19:18:04 »
Quote from: chiralSPO on 31/01/2017 19:11:56
First, I don't think brain volume would help. The exposure is probably the result of a uniform bombardment such that each unit of volume gets the same number of hits per unit time. Since a significant portion of the cosmic rays could go right through without interacting I don't think the outer brain would offer any shielding to the inner brain, so the size of the brain will have no effect on the rate. A brain 100 times larger would also get 100 times more radiation.

I think that the amount of lead required to stop cosmic radiation in deep space is quite significant. You could shield the crew with stuff that already needs to come along for a long trip (people have proposed using water for protection).

One could also imagine using a large magnetic field to deflect charged particles just as the Earth's does. One would still need to worry about gamma rays and x-rays (and perhaps to a greater extent: if they are living near a particle accelerator, they can expect bremsstrahlung radiation).

It was the charged particles that were the major concern.  The authors didn't go into detail about the magnetic field needed, does anyone have any idea how this might work?
Logged
 

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 16234
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 372 times
    • View Profile
Re: How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?
« Reply #7 on: 31/01/2017 19:22:40 »
Quote from: zx16 on 31/01/2017 17:38:13
But mice have tiny brains.  Whereas human brains are far superior.  Many thousands of times bigger in cerebral volume.

Won't this enable astronauts to safely absorb en-route cosmic radiation, which might knock out a mouse, but won't stop a valiant Mars crew from accomplishing a successful landing?
Let me get this straight; because human brains are a bigger target, and thus easier to hit, you think they are safer
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline chris

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 7661
  • Activity:
    9.5%
  • Thanked: 248 times
  • The Naked Scientist
    • View Profile
    • The Naked Scientists
Re: How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?
« Reply #8 on: 04/02/2017 22:05:07 »
This is my write-up of the study that simulated cosmic radiation exposure on brain function:

https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/science-news/brain-irradiation-space
Logged
I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception - Groucho Marx - https://www.thenakedscientists.com/
 



Offline zx16

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 249
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 7 times
    • View Profile
Re: How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?
« Reply #9 on: 06/02/2017 23:22:44 »
Human brains have got vastly more neurons than mouse-brains. Therefore a dose of cosmic radiation which might severely incapacitate a puny mouse-brain, will have only slight effect on a human brain.  The human brain has plenty of reserve capacity.
Logged
 

Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 16234
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 372 times
    • View Profile
Re: How much brain damage is caused by cosmic rays?
« Reply #10 on: 07/02/2017 19:58:15 »
Quote from: zx16 on 06/02/2017 23:22:44
Human brains have got vastly more neurons than mouse-brains. Therefore a dose of cosmic radiation which might severely incapacitate a puny mouse-brain, will have only slight effect on a human brain.  The human brain has plenty of reserve capacity.
It may have escaped your notice, but human brains have more to do than mouse brains and therefore have less capacity.

Seriously, the unit of dose is the Gray which is based on energy per unit mass.
Since mouse brains are small quite a lot of gammas go through them, but the radiation is more likely to be absorbed by our brains- because they offer a longer path length.

You may like the idea that "Humans are superior- so we will defeat the mice in this (pointless) competition".
Reality doesn't have to agree with your prejudices.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 



  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 

Similar topics (5)

Have I "googled" my brain?

Started by lolaryanBoard Physiology & Medicine

Replies: 5
Views: 4050
Last post 13/01/2018 19:23:31
by tkadm30
Are genes expressed in the brain expressed elsewhere?

Started by thedocBoard General Science

Replies: 1
Views: 3576
Last post 18/02/2013 17:20:47
by thedoc
From skin cells to brain cells?

Started by thedocBoard Physiology & Medicine

Replies: 0
Views: 3248
Last post 31/01/2013 10:20:40
by thedoc
Hair cells to brain cells?

Started by thedocBoard Cells, Microbes & Viruses

Replies: 0
Views: 3405
Last post 01/10/2013 10:43:43
by thedoc
How does "I-DOSER" affect your brain?

Started by BenCBoard Physiology & Medicine

Replies: 7
Views: 28166
Last post 26/06/2008 09:39:27
by Counterpoints
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.178 seconds with 61 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.