[tkadm30 (OP)]

This topic was split off from "Should we take a small aspirin everyday?":

Cannabis as a replacement for aspirin in prevention and management of cardiovascular diseases is controversial and poorly understood.

See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481040

However, some heart conditions can lead to excess formation of blood clots, which could pass to the brain and also cause a stroke or heart attack.

Cannabinoids are cardioprotective compounds. I highly recommend considering cannabis as a replacement for daily aspirin use. Cannabis is much safer than aspirin.

[chris]

I highly recommend considering cannabis as a replacement for daily aspirin use. Cannabis is much safer than aspirin.

No it's not.

You've no evidence whatsoever to support that statement. People have looked at cannabis-like agonists in platelets and there are also observations that cannabis consumers who are also blood donors show reduced platelet activation, but an in vitro effect - which these experiments are - is not the same as clinical evidence for effectiveness or safety.

[tkadm30 (OP)]

You've no evidence whatsoever to support that statement. People have looked at cannabis-like agonists in platelets and there are also observations that cannabis consumers who are also blood donors show reduced platelet activation, but an in vitro effect - which these experiments are - is not the same as clinical evidence for effectiveness or safety.

The evidence of safety of cannabis over aspirin is in the mortality rate associated with aspirin use.

(Marijuana Safety - DEA Administrative Law Judge's Ruling)
"3. The most obvious concern when dealing with drug safety is the possibility of lethal effects. Can the drug cause death?
"4. Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal effects. But marijuana is not such a substance. There is no record in the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented cannabis-induced fatality.
"5. This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world. Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death.
"6. By contrast aspirin, a commonly used, over-the-counter medicine, causes hundreds of deaths each year.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Causes_of_Death

[chris]

(Marijuana Safety - DEA Administrative Law Judge's Ruling)
"3. The most obvious concern when dealing with drug safety is the possibility of lethal effects. Can the drug cause death?
"4. Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal effects. But marijuana is not such a substance. There is no record in the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented cannabis-induced fatality.
"5. This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world. Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death.
"6. By contrast aspirin, a commonly used, over-the-counter medicine, causes hundreds of deaths each year.

Forgive me, but what has this got to do with the question of whether cannabis could be substituted for aspirin as an anti-platelet agent?

[evan_au]

Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death.

Which contrasts with a few quotes from the drugwarfacts website:

Standardized MVA mortality ratios were elevated across all drug cohorts: alcohol (4.5, 95% CI, 4.1–4.9), cocaine (3.8, 95% CI, 2.3–5.3), opioids (2.8, 95% CI, 2.1–3.5), methamphetamine (2.6, 95% CI, 2–3.1), cannabis (2.3, 95% CI, 1.5–3.2)...

See: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/chapter/Drugged_Driving#sthash.eILJzR5v.dpbs

Combine this with:

   Motor Vehicle Accidents [subset of Total Accidents]    35,398 in 2014

See: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Causes_of_Death#sthash.scPWhypl.N7JZHaxM.dpbs

If motor vehicles kill a lot of people, and Motor Vehicle Accident (MVA) mortality ratio is higher for cannabis users, then it follows that cannabis has caused deaths - of users and bystanders.

It seems from glancing at a few pages that this website seemed to confuse "safety of cannabis" with "a low risk of cannabis overdose".

There are many ways that cannabis can prove lethal besides overdose - some of those quoted above hide behind the smokescreen that almost certain outcomes like lung cancer take years to appear and can't be specifically tied to smoking cannabis many years previously.

Should we take a small aspirin everyday and if so what size?

I think that tkadm30 has mounted his hobby-horse, and tried to kidnap the thread...

[tkadm30 (OP)]

Cannabis as a replacement for aspirin in prevention and management of cardiovascular diseases is controversial
and poorly understood.

See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481040/

[Bored chemist]

There's no way that anyone can sensibly claim that cannabis- used for cardiovascular effects- doesn't have serious side effects.

You can safely drive a car while taking aspirin.

[tkadm30 (OP)]

There's no way that anyone can sensibly claim that cannabis- used for cardiovascular effects- doesn't have serious side effects.

You can safely drive a car while taking aspirin.

You would be surprised by the safety of cannabis in the management of cardiovascular diseases. While the risks of driving stoned should not be ignored, I believe that its cardioprotection properties are superior to aspirin.

[Bored chemist]

There's no way that anyone can sensibly claim that cannabis- used for cardiovascular effects- doesn't have serious side effects.

You can safely drive a car while taking aspirin.

You would be surprised by the safety of cannabis in the management of cardiovascular diseases. While the risks of driving stoned should not be ignored, I believe that its cardioprotection properties are superior to aspirin.

What you believe- as opposed to being able to prove is irrelevant.
Also, since the typical dose regimen for cardiovascular drugs is "all the time 24/7" and that for canabis is generally " on a Friday or Saturday night  for a few hours" there's no comparable data.
You seem to be advocating  a large fraction of the population being stoned most of the time.
Do you understand that this would have an effect on the economy, road safety and so on?

[tkadm30 (OP)]

What you believe- as opposed to being able to prove is irrelevant.
Also, since the typical dose regimen for cardiovascular drugs is "all the time 24/7" and that for canabis is generally " on a Friday or Saturday night  for a few hours" there's no comparable data.
You seem to be advocating  a large fraction of the population being stoned most of the time.
Do you understand that this would have an effect on the economy, road safety and so on?

I advocate for better research and education on the cardioprotective and neuroprotective effects of cannabis.
There's no reason to believe in fear comparing cannabis to aspirin. The aspirin mortality rate is a proof cannabis is at least safer than aspirin for management of cardiovascular diseases.

[Bored chemist]

What you believe- as opposed to being able to prove is irrelevant.
Also, since the typical dose regimen for cardiovascular drugs is "all the time 24/7" and that for canabis is generally " on a Friday or Saturday night  for a few hours" there's no comparable data.
You seem to be advocating  a large fraction of the population being stoned most of the time.
Do you understand that this would have an effect on the economy, road safety and so on?

I advocate for better research and education on the cardioprotective and neuroprotective effects of cannabis.
There's no reason to believe in fear comparing cannabis to aspirin. The aspirin mortality rate is a proof cannabis is at least safer than aspirin for management of cardiovascular diseases.

Better research is always a good thing; but not always the most valuable thing. It is, for example, possible that research on potential drugs that don't lead to people getting stoned might be more productive.
You seem to be the only one for whom "fear" is an issue.
Do you understand that mortality isn't the only important side effect?

[tkadm30 (OP)]

Do you understand that mortality isn't the only important side effect?

No. Aspirin-induced mortality is by far the most important "side-effect" of daily aspirin use. In contrast, chronic cannabis use has no mortality associated to its occasional use.

[chris]

In contrast, chronic cannabis use has no mortality associated to its occasional use.

Apart from lung cancer in people who smoke it...

[Bored chemist]

Do you understand that mortality isn't the only important side effect?

No. Aspirin-induced mortality is by far the most important "side-effect" of daily aspirin use. In contrast, chronic cannabis use has no mortality associated to its occasional use.

Even if we ignore that fact that cannabis does kill people*- as Chris pointed out- you still can't replace aspirin by dope because just about all the people over 50 or so would be stoned all the time.
That's a whole lot of problems- many of them potentially fatal.

Do you really not understand why that  is a problem?

*
http://norml.org/component/zoo/category/cannabis-smoke-and-cancer-assessing-the-risk

[tkadm30 (OP)]

In contrast, chronic cannabis use has no mortality associated to its occasional use.

Apart from lung cancer in people who smoke it...

Forgive me, but check the evidences.
THC kills lung cancer cells in vivo and in vitro.

[tkadm30 (OP)]

Even if we ignore that fact that cannabis does kill people*- as Chris pointed out- you still can't replace aspirin by dope because just about all the people over 50 or so would be stoned all the time.
That's a whole lot of problems- many of them potentially fatal.

Cannabis-associated mortality is 0. How on earth can you compare this with aspirin??
BTW, people using cannabis are not necessarely high all the time. This is a fallacy of your
reasoning.
 

[tkadm30 (OP)]

The endocannabinoid system has been shown to have a homeostatic role by controlling several metabolic functions, such as energy storage and nutrient transport. It acts on peripheral tissues such as adipocytes, hepatocytes, the gastrointestinal tract, the skeletal muscles and the endocrine pancreas. It has also been implied in modulating insulin sensitivity. Through all of this, the endocannabinoid system may play a role in clinical conditions, such as obesity, diabetes, and atherosclerosis, which may also give it a cardiovascular role.[46]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system#Energy_balance_and_metabolism

[Bored chemist]

Cannabis-associated mortality is 0. How on earth can you compare this with aspirin??

That's just not true and you should know it because it has already been pointed out in this thread.

[evan_au]

The endocannabinoid system has been shown to have a homeostatic role by controlling several metabolic functions, such as energy storage and nutrient transport. It acts on peripheral tissues such as adipocytes, hepatocytes, the gastrointestinal tract, the skeletal muscles and the endocrine pancreas.

The endocannabinoid system is important, with receptors in the brain and many other organs.
Like most neurotransmitter and hormonal communication systems in the body, it requires a careful interplay between the signalling system and the receptors; often the same system is reused directly or with subtle variations in different parts of the body.

You advocate dumping in a random quantity of various interfering chemicals into the endocannabinoid system throughout the whole body. So why do you think that this is going to to produce a specific beneficial result?

It is more likely to throw a number of bodily systems needed for homeostasis into disarray.

[tkadm30 (OP)]

Cannabis-associated mortality is 0. How on earth can you compare this with aspirin??

That's just not true and you should know it because it has already been pointed out in this thread.

Citation needed.