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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  4. Light - wave, particle or other?
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Light - wave, particle or other?

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Offline katieHaylor (OP)

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Light - wave, particle or other?
« on: 30/06/2017 09:57:23 »
John says:

Light,  wave  or  particle, I  believe  that ultimately  we  will  find  that  those  two  properties  are  just  the  ones  our  detection  apparatus  can  reveal, producing  the  well  known  inexplicable  conundrum.
I  believe  there are  X  others  for  which we  have  no  detection  apparatus, if  we  had  it  would  reveal  the  true  nature  of  light.
If  we  cannot  detect it,  it  isn't  there?


What do you think?
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Offline puppypower

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Re: Light - wave, particle or other?
« Reply #1 on: 30/06/2017 12:14:23 »
Quote from: katieHaylor on 30/06/2017 09:57:23
John says:

Light,  wave  or  particle, I  believe  that ultimately  we  will  find  that  those  two  properties  are  just  the  ones  our  detection  apparatus  can  reveal, producing  the  well  known  inexplicable  conundrum.
I  believe  there are  X  others  for  which we  have  no  detection  apparatus, if  we  had  it  would  reveal  the  true  nature  of  light.
If  we  cannot  detect it,  it  isn't  there?


What do you think?


Let me try to answer the question this way. One significant difference between waves and particles, are waves can occupy the same space, while particles cannot occupy the same space. With the wave nature of light the most commonly used, this basic difference leads to a problem, that your question indirectly addresses. 

Consider a wave tank, where we have two wave generators, one at each end of the tank. Each wave generator is 180 degree out of phase. The result will be the crests of the waves coming from one side will cancel with the troughs of the waves coming from the other side. There will be silence in the middle of the tank, even though we are adding energy. This is called destructive interference. This is shown in the image below.

Destructive interference is an artifact of waves, but it cannot be done with particles, since they cannot occupy the same space. In case of the water in the middle of the wave tank, the particles are conserved, only the waves cancel. The stillness in the center is where the particle and wave duality ends, and begins to favor particles; monopole.

Since modeling with waves is the way most things are done in physics, it is theoretically possible that destructive interference of waves is the source of dark energy? Like in the tank, energy is added but it appears to be hidden in the stillness.

If we go back to our wave tank, and place a rock in the stillness, the hidden energy will reappear as the waves appear in both sides. In terms of light and dark energy, the rock is connected to particles conglomerates interfering with the destructive interference of wave energy, to create a new wave affect out of the stillness.

It is not so much we need more ways to explain light, but rather we need to address destructive interference in wave models, which creates hidden energy in the wave economy. 

Destructive interference is more often the rule in nature, rather than the exception. For example, a moving electron will generate a magnetic field. Since all atoms are composed of electrons in motion, one would expect a lot of magnetic energy from all those moving electron particles; add them all up. Yet, the measured magnetism is often very small. Most of this magnetic energy becomes hidden in destructive interference, so we do not measure it as being the same as the sum of all the moving electron particles.


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Re: Light - wave, particle or other?
« Reply #2 on: 30/06/2017 13:19:23 »
Quote from: katieHaylor on 30/06/2017 09:57:23
John says:

Light,  wave  or  particle, I  believe  that ultimately  we  will  find  that  those  two  properties  are  just  the  ones  our  detection  apparatus  can  reveal, producing  the  well  known  inexplicable  conundrum.
I  believe  there are  X  others  for  which we  have  no  detection  apparatus, if  we  had  it  would  reveal  the  true  nature  of  light.
If  we  cannot  detect it,  it  isn't  there?


What do you think?

I describe Photons as being a visual point particle.   Only existing when EMR is detected by a ''substance''.



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Offline GoC

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Re: Light - wave, particle or other?
« Reply #3 on: 30/06/2017 13:54:24 »
Quote from: puppypower on 30/06/2017 12:14:23
Most of this magnetic energy becomes hidden in destructive interference, so we do not measure it as being the same as the sum of all the moving electron particles.

Yes it is only in alignment where we can use magnetism for work. We need to consider wave particle of light just that a wave on particles. Of course the particles have to have the energy of c to always propagate at c. Light waves are created as a helix form. Opposite directions have opposite spins (entangled) When you measure one the other is always opposite of course. Nothing spooky about it. Its only spooky if it is misunderstood. The standard model makes it spooky.
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