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  4. On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
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On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation

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Offline Dubbelosix (OP)

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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #20 on: 08/08/2017 01:21:43 »
Quote from: fthomposon on 08/08/2017 01:10:25
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 01:04:13
Well, look. If I wanted to find some dynamic way to explain how rotation may even appear in a universe, I wouldn't think about it in terms of another supermassive black hole. Again, that just complicates things. Radically wild, and not even wrong (as in, cannot be disproven).

How does it complicate things when you can't explain why there is a dark flow or why the black holes of galaxies spins are aligned or why the Universe has a preferred axis of rotation? All which are correctly explained by there being a Universal black hole.

?

But my model does explain dark flow, in exactly the same way the Godel universe does. In fact, I have derived equations of motion for the exponential spiral trajectories for the dust particles to couple strongly to a rapidly rotating universe which should decay as the scale factor increases (universe gets bigger).

Things tend to couple to the motion of the early universe. This explains dark flow naturally and easily. Note, the universes rotation has to have varied: Was very fast and the exponential decay of rotation due to linear expansion is predicted by theory and so can even explain why dark flow is slow today.
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #21 on: 08/08/2017 01:24:36 »
Note what this means, it means my theory explains dark flow, not only as a coupling to the rotation of a universe, but also explains why dark flow is slow, because of the Hoyle-Narlikar decay of rotation due to expansion effects.

This is simple and nice and hasn't complicated anything.
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Offline fthomposon

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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #22 on: 08/08/2017 01:26:03 »
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 01:21:43
But my model does explain dark flow, in exactly the same way the Godel universe does. In fact, I have derived equations of motion for the exponential spiral trajectories for the dust particles to couple strongly to a rapidly rotating universe which should decay as the scale factor increases (universe gets bigger).

Things tend to couple to the motion of the early universe. This explains dark flow naturally and easily.

"Equations of motion" don't explain what is occurring physically in nature which causes dark flow, the galaxy's spins to be aligned or what is occurring physically in nature which causes the Universe to have a preferred axis of rotation.
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Offline Dubbelosix (OP)

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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #23 on: 08/08/2017 01:34:02 »
Quote from: fthomposon on 08/08/2017 01:26:03
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 01:21:43
But my model does explain dark flow, in exactly the same way the Godel universe does. In fact, I have derived equations of motion for the exponential spiral trajectories for the dust particles to couple strongly to a rapidly rotating universe which should decay as the scale factor increases (universe gets bigger).

Things tend to couple to the motion of the early universe. This explains dark flow naturally and easily.

"Equations of motion" don't explain what is occurring physically in nature which causes dark flow, the galaxy's spins to be aligned or what is occurring physically in nature which causes the Universe to have a preferred axis of rotation.

You're not listening to me, there is no problem with the mechanism, the same fluid dynamics existed for the Godel metric which also effected dust inside of a rotating universe. There is no mechanism problem for the coupling of universal rotation and the systems within it.

If you rotate a fluid, you will displace particles inside of it.
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Offline fthomposon

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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #24 on: 08/08/2017 01:40:49 »
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 01:34:02
You're not listening to me, there is no problem with the mechanism, the same fluid dynamics existed for the Godel metric which also effected dust inside of a rotating universe. There is no mechanism problem for the coupling of universal rotation and the systems within it.

If you rotate a fluid, you will displace particles inside of it.

Q. What is rotating the cosmological fluid which is causing the particles inside it to displace?
A. The Universal black hole.
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #25 on: 08/08/2017 01:40:59 »
Take a read of this.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_solution
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #26 on: 08/08/2017 01:44:36 »
Quote from: fthomposon on 08/08/2017 01:40:49
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 01:34:02
You're not listening to me, there is no problem with the mechanism, the same fluid dynamics existed for the Godel metric which also effected dust inside of a rotating universe. There is no mechanism problem for the coupling of universal rotation and the systems within it.

If you rotate a fluid, you will displace particles inside of it.

Q. What is rotating the cosmological fluid which is causing the particles inside it to displace?
A. The Universal black hole.

Though, technically-speaking my theory does not give an origin to rotation, it didn't really need one because talking about rotation as an intrinsic property, may sound strange, but there is evidence for this in the full Poincare symmetry group, which describes any translations, rotations ect in spacetime. So, while you may think it is pertinent to explain rotation in some dynamic way, from the viewpoint of Poincare symmetry, rotation should be a part of nature regardless.

Nevertheless, my model not only explains dark flow, but explains why it is detected to be so slow. Something I have not seen any other model tackle or a question even talked about.
« Last Edit: 08/08/2017 01:47:18 by Dubbelosix »
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #27 on: 08/08/2017 01:47:37 »
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 01:40:59
Take a read of this.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_solution

Dust model

Quote
Dust solutions can also be used to model finite rotating disks of dust grains; some examples are listed below. If superimposed somehow on a stellar model comprising a ball of fluid surrounded by vacuum, a dust solution could be used to model an accretion disk around a massive object

For example, it could be used to model the accretion disk of our Universal black hole.
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #28 on: 08/08/2017 01:52:14 »
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 01:44:36
Though, technically-speaking my theory does not give an origin to rotation, it didn't really need one because talking about rotation as an intrinsic property, may sound strange, but there is evidence for this in the full Poincare symmetry group, which describes any translations, rotations ect in spacetime. So, while you may think it is pertinent to explain rotation in some dynamic way, from the viewpoint of Poincare symmetry, rotation should be a part of nature regardless.

Nevertheless, my model not only explains dark flow, but explains why it is detected to be so slow. Something I have not seen any other model tackle or a question even talked about.

intrinsic = it's magic!

Provide a link where Poincare symmetry describes what is occurring physically in nature which causes the rotation.

This is getting us nowhere. You appear to be insisting mathematical equations equal physical definitions where I am insisting that is incorrect. Good luck.
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #29 on: 08/08/2017 01:54:36 »
Quote from: fthomposon on 08/08/2017 01:47:37
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 01:40:59
Take a read of this.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_solution

Dust model

Quote
Dust solutions can also be used to model finite rotating disks of dust grains; some examples are listed below. If superimposed somehow on a stellar model comprising a ball of fluid surrounded by vacuum, a dust solution could be used to model an accretion disk around a massive object

For example, it could be used to model the accretion disk of our Universal black hole.

So how come we can track the evolution of the universe from a common origin? How do the background temperatures appear, what causes the vast array of particles in your ''outflow'' theory?

None of it makes sense to me and I don't think this is a matter of me ''not getting it because I am incapable of''. This is about whether a model satisfies observation, and this particular one you mention, doesn't. There is no evidence for this model, let alone several problems with cosmology arise if we considered it.
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #30 on: 08/08/2017 01:56:19 »
Quote from: fthomposon on 08/08/2017 01:52:14
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 01:44:36
Though, technically-speaking my theory does not give an origin to rotation, it didn't really need one because talking about rotation as an intrinsic property, may sound strange, but there is evidence for this in the full Poincare symmetry group, which describes any translations, rotations ect in spacetime. So, while you may think it is pertinent to explain rotation in some dynamic way, from the viewpoint of Poincare symmetry, rotation should be a part of nature regardless.

Nevertheless, my model not only explains dark flow, but explains why it is detected to be so slow. Something I have not seen any other model tackle or a question even talked about.

intrinsic = it's magic!

Provide a link where Poincare symmetry describes what is occurring physically in nature which causes the rotation.

This is getting us nowhere. You appear to be insisting mathematical equations equal physical definitions where I am insisting that is incorrect. Good luck.


What does, part of the full Poincare group, mean to you, as a physical theory?
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Offline fthomposon

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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #31 on: 08/08/2017 01:59:49 »
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 01:54:36
So how come we can track the evolution of the universe from a common origin? How do the background tempertaures appear, what causes the vast array of particles in your ''outflow'' theory?

Think of the following image as picturing an ongoing process.



As the cosmological fluid outflows from the Universal black hole the pressure builds up and some of the cosmological fluid condenses back in particles of ordinary matter. This is represented by "1st Stars" in the image above. The particles of ordinary matter displace the cosmological fluid. The cosmological fluid displaced by the particles of ordinary matter pushes back and exerts pressure toward the particles. This causes the particles to clump together and form larger objects. When you get to an object as large as the Earth the cosmological fluid displaced by the Earth pushing back and exerting pressure toward the Earth is gravity.

The cosmological fluid which didn't condense into particles of ordinary matter continues to outflow and push the ordinary matter causing the galaxy clusters to accelerate away from one another. This is represented by the "Dark Energy Accelerated Expansion" portion of the image above.
« Last Edit: 08/08/2017 02:02:52 by fthomposon »
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #32 on: 08/08/2017 02:03:42 »
You see, to scientists, the Poincare symmetry group, is very important and relates to physics.

Obviously it has properties, it is non-abelian;  but more importantly rotation and torsion are part of the full Poincare group theory of the symmetries of spacetime. It is so important though, for instance, the Poincare group is the minimal subgroup of the affine group, which itself includes all the translations and the all-important Lorentz transformations.

By the way, you say this is my thread, stop making elongated posts repeating the things you have said please. I get your picture, I just don't agree with it. I think it's wrong.
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #33 on: 08/08/2017 02:05:34 »
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 02:03:42
You see, to scientists, the Poincare symmetry group, is very important and relates to physics.

Obviously it has properties, it is non-abelian;  but more importantly rotation and torsion are part of the full Poincare group theory of the symmetries of spacetime. It is so important though, for instance, the Poincare group is the minimal subgroup of the affine group, which itself includes all the translations and the all-important Lorentz transformations.

By the way, you say this is my thread, stop making elongated posts repeating the things you have said please. I get your picture, I just don't agree with it. I think it's wrong.

I asked for a link that relates the Poincare group to an explanation as to what is occurring physically in nature which causes rotation. You appear to have responded with only mathematical constructs.
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #34 on: 08/08/2017 02:13:30 »
Quote from: fthomposon on 08/08/2017 02:05:34
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 02:03:42
You see, to scientists, the Poincare symmetry group, is very important and relates to physics.

Obviously it has properties, it is non-abelian;  but more importantly rotation and torsion are part of the full Poincare group theory of the symmetries of spacetime. It is so important though, for instance, the Poincare group is the minimal subgroup of the affine group, which itself includes all the translations and the all-important Lorentz transformations.

By the way, you say this is my thread, stop making elongated posts repeating the things you have said please. I get your picture, I just don't agree with it. I think it's wrong.

I asked for a link that relates the Poincare group to an explanation as to what is occurring physically in nature which causes rotation. You appear to have responded with only mathematical constructs.

They arise because they are invariances of spacetime.

Do you know what isometry is?

It is when you have a system that remains the same after some time interval. Rotations, boosts, translations are all part of the isometries of spacetime. You are asking for a reason something rotates, generally-speaking, Poincare does not provide the reason in any specific model, but is the general explanation of why things can rotate in the first place, ... and they rotate, only because of the spacetime isometries, which may all sound very mathematical, but it has a very basis in reality.
« Last Edit: 08/08/2017 02:16:44 by Dubbelosix »
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #35 on: 08/08/2017 02:19:21 »
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 02:13:30
They arise because they are invariances of spacetime.

Spacetime

Quote
In physics, spacetime is any mathematical model ...

Dark matter is a smoothly distributed superfluid sea that is displaced by ordinary matter.

What physicists mistake for the 'clumpiness' of the dark matter is actually the state of displacement of the smoothly distributed superfluid sea that fills 'empty' space and is displaced by ordinary matter.

This Dark Matter Theory Could Solve a Celestial Conundrum

Quote
our galaxy is swimming in a superfluid sea

Dark Matter More Ubiquitous Than We Ever Thought

Quote
dark matter is smooth, distributed more evenly throughout space than we thought

The Earth displaces the superfluid sea. The state of displacement of the superfluid sea is the physical manifestation of the geometrical spacetime. The state of displacement of the sea is gravity.

Okay, we're definitely not getting anywhere. You are incapable of understanding the difference between a mathematical construct and physical reality. Good luck.
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #36 on: 08/08/2017 02:20:44 »
You're posting whatever the hell you like now. This is my thread and you are hijacking it with your mad theories.
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #37 on: 08/08/2017 02:23:14 »
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 02:20:44
You're posting whatever the hell you like now. This is my thread and you are hijacking it with your mad theories.

Spacetime is a mathematical construct. Curved spacetime is geometry. It's not the underlying physical phenomenon responsible for gravity.

I was trying to get you to understand the difference between mathematical constructs and physical reality. I failed.
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #38 on: 08/08/2017 02:29:07 »
Quote from: fthomposon on 08/08/2017 02:23:14
Quote from: Dubbelosix on 08/08/2017 02:20:44
You're posting whatever the hell you like now. This is my thread and you are hijacking it with your mad theories.

Spacetime is a mathematical construct. Curved spacetime is geometry. It's not the underlying physical phenomenon responsible for gravity.

I was trying to get you to understand the difference between mathematical constructs and physical reality. I failed.

Well, I beg your pardon, but I don't believe in gravitons and yes, curvature is the underying physical phenomenon responsible for gravity. Gravity is a pseudo force as well, it is in the same group as the centrifugal force, Euler force and coriolis force. Technically-speaking, from first principles, gravity is a pseudo force and these kinds of forces do not require mediators in nature. Pseudo forces are thus so-called, because they are not real forces of nature, like electromagnetism or the strong or weak nuclear forces.

We are on different pages. And that other post was complete nonsense, I don't know how you expected me to get anything from it.
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Re: On Dark Energy being a Centrifugal Force Phenomenon from Rotation
« Reply #39 on: 08/08/2017 02:31:20 »
You talk to me as well, as if I am accepting of the current dark model hypothesis, which I am not. I detest the dark matter hypothesis.
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