The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Member Map
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. That CAN'T be true!
  4. Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )

  • 14 Replies
  • 3543 Views
  • 2 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Seth???????? (OP)

  • First timers
  • *
  • 7
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« on: 17/08/2017 01:21:56 »
Evolution is fictitious and can be easily debunked ...
Logged
 



Offline Seth???????? (OP)

  • First timers
  • *
  • 7
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #1 on: 17/08/2017 01:27:21 »
Debating me is futile I hope everyone with intelligence should confirm but I am here to scientifically prove to any believers in the subject that they should turn about face and research science instead of myth...
Logged
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 5768
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 240 times
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #2 on: 17/08/2017 02:11:57 »
What do you mean when you say "evolution"? There are a lot of people who mistakenly think that the evolution of the Universe at large (The Big Bang, star formation, planetary condensation, etc.) is the same thing as biological evolution (or at the very least is somehow connected with it in such a way that they both somehow "require" each other).
« Last Edit: 17/08/2017 02:22:25 by Kryptid »
Logged
 

Offline Ophiolite

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 822
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 25 times
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #3 on: 17/08/2017 04:17:09 »
Quote from: Seth???????? on 17/08/2017 01:27:21
Debating me is futile I hope everyone with intelligence should confirm but I am here to scientifically prove to any believers in the subject that they should turn about face and research science instead of myth...
Please go ahead. I enjoy scientific "proofs". I presume you intend to falsify the ToE. Have at it.
Logged
Observe; collate; conjecture; analyse; hypothesise; test; validate; theorise. Repeat until complete.
 

Offline jeffreyH

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 6807
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 174 times
  • The graviton sucks
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #4 on: 17/08/2017 06:05:58 »
You can't scientifically prove things. You can however falsify things. It is only in mathematics that you can prove things. Still I am paying attention so carry on.
Logged
Even the most obstinately ignorant cannot avoid learning when in an environment that educates.
 



Offline Seth???????? (OP)

  • First timers
  • *
  • 7
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #5 on: 17/08/2017 07:29:45 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 17/08/2017 02:11:57
What do you mean when you say "evolution"? There are a lot of people who mistakenly think that the evolution of the Universe at large (The Big Bang, star formation, planetary condensation, etc.) is the same thing as biological evolution (or at the very least is somehow connected with it in such a way that they both somehow "require" each other).
evolution from a microorganism to any other species period...
Logged
 

Offline Seth???????? (OP)

  • First timers
  • *
  • 7
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #6 on: 17/08/2017 07:39:22 »
To begin, I'm not in English comp and do not intend on gaining unknown scientific data from you. Laws  of physics government the state of universe ...thermodynamics has an arrow that runs spacetime through expansion of matter in a dimension,  however entropy** by said [LAW ] IS known to increase with time...if that doesn't debunk evolution and ideas of things becoming something they are not... idc if you date back to before thia hit earth bugs don't turn into zebras an d I didn't  come from uncielleular evolution
Logged
 

Offline Kryptid

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 5768
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 240 times
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #7 on: 17/08/2017 16:55:03 »
Quote from: Seth???????? on 17/08/2017 07:39:22
To begin, I'm not in English comp and do not intend on gaining unknown scientific data from you. Laws  of physics government the state of universe ...thermodynamics has an arrow that runs spacetime through expansion of matter in a dimension,  however entropy** by said [LAW ] IS known to increase with time...if that doesn't debunk evolution and ideas of things becoming something they are not... idc if you date back to before thia hit earth bugs don't turn into zebras an d I didn't  come from uncielleular evolution

I've heard all of this before...

The net entropy of the Universe must increase over time, yes. However, that doesn't prevent local areas of the Universe from experiencing a decrease in entropy so long as another area experiences a corresponding increase in entropy. Living organisms themselves are a perfect example. Plants take disorganized, low potential energy matter (carbon dioxide, water and minerals) and turn it into organized, high potential energy matter (sugars, cellulose, leaves and wood). The energy in sunlight is what allows them to fight entropy. The energy in sunlight comes from reactions in the Sun that greatly increase entropy, much more than offsetting the entropy decrease created by the plants. If it was impossible for entropy to decrease at all, ever, then life would not be able to exist at all because plants would not be able to photosynthesize nor would organisms be able to grow.

Also, the theory of evolution never claimed that bugs turned into zebras. That's a straw-man argument.
Logged
 

Offline chiralSPO

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 3455
  • Activity:
    2%
  • Thanked: 434 times
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #8 on: 17/08/2017 17:11:21 »
Quote from: Seth???????? on 17/08/2017 01:21:56
Evolution is fictitious and can be easily debunked ...
Quote from: Seth???????? on 17/08/2017 01:27:21
Debating me is futile I hope everyone with intelligence should confirm but I am here to scientifically prove to any believers in the subject that they should turn about face and research science instead of myth...

hmmm... do I smell a troll?
Logged
 



Online Bored chemist

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 22009
  • Activity:
    100%
  • Thanked: 511 times
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #9 on: 17/08/2017 19:58:18 »
Quote from: Seth???????? on 17/08/2017 01:27:21
Debating me is futile

Well, someone ought to close the thread then.
BTW, you don't understand  entropy. It only increases for closed systems. Biology isn't one.
Your "explanation" of why evolution is impossible is based on an incorrect interpretation.
So, yes, you are right, there's no point debating it.
Logged
Please disregard all previous signatures.
 

Offline Colin2B

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 5272
  • Activity:
    10.5%
  • Thanked: 439 times
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #10 on: 17/08/2017 23:09:44 »
Quote from: chiralSPO on 17/08/2017 17:11:21
hmmm... do I smell a troll?

I suspect so. Especially as s/he has said elsewhere that s/he isn't reading other folks' posts.
Plus, as BC points out, knowledge of science is lacking.
Logged
and the misguided shall lead the gullible,
the feebleminded have inherited the earth.
 

Offline puppypower

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1361
  • Activity:
    14.5%
  • Thanked: 97 times
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #11 on: 22/08/2017 11:38:00 »
One of the keys of life is connected to the interaction of water with organics. For example, say we started with water and oil and mixed the two to increase this system entropy. If we stop mixing, the entropy we added would spontaneously reverse and decrease as the water and oil separate back into two layers. The formation of all the organelle in cells work by the same principle; water and oil affect, turning random into order with a decrease in entropy. All proteins in cells fold with exact folds triggered by the water and oil affect.

Evolution is connected to the second law. Evolution helps to modify the organics, so the water and oil affect cannot net reverse entropy. For example, even though water will still fold protein with perfect folds, these protein surfaces become catalytic allowing entropy to increase via the active chemical reactions. Water by creating order creates an entropy potential; potential for entropy to increase, which evolution expresses with higher reaction efficiency so more entropy can be created as offset.
Logged
 

Offline puppypower

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1361
  • Activity:
    14.5%
  • Thanked: 97 times
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #12 on: 24/08/2017 20:43:21 »
In chemistry, entropy is a state variable, which means for given any state of chemical matter there is a fixed amount of entropy. For example, the entropy of liquid water is 6.6177 J ˣ mol-1 ˣ K-1 (25 °C). This number would be measured the same by any lab.  It is a constant. It is not a random number but is constant for this state.

In terms of evolution, the water-oil affect lowers the entropy of organic materials into given states. Proteins will fold with unique folds which define a fixed amount of entropy. Since the entropy of the universe has to increase, increases in cellular entropy, implies change into new states with fixed but higher amounts of entropy.

To many people think entropy means randomness. That is a bias assumption due to an approximation method called statistics, which is not real, but helps to solve complex problems.

Evolution is ordered with respect to entropy because entropy has to increase, with entropy a state variable. It has to evolve into increasing entropic states, while being resisted by the water-oil affect which attempts to lower entropy to lower entropic states. 

The analogy is we have oil and water. We add entropy by mixing. This is not permanent, since once we stop mixing water and oil separate out. Randomness is temporary. Since the entropy has to increase we need to eventually form a new final state, so entropy can racket up a notch, and water can't make it go backwards. Next time we mix we add something like phosphate tails to the oil molecules, so it does not separate into two layers. Now it has evolved to a higher state of fixed entropy. 

Logged
 



Offline Bill S

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 3631
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 108 times
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #13 on: 01/09/2017 21:24:50 »
Crackpots of the world unite,
Our limit is the skies;
Won’t they be pissed if we are right,
And win a Nobel Prize?
Logged
There never was nothing.
 

Offline Greylorn

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 46
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution or Entropy? (Theory vs laws of physics )
« Reply #14 on: 02/09/2017 00:19:46 »
Quote from: Seth???????? on 17/08/2017 01:21:56
Evolution is fictitious and can be easily debunked ...

By following replies to this
Logged
 



  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags: entropy  / biological evolution 
 

Similar topics (5)

What is your opinion about the "Big Rip Theory?"

Started by Joe L. OganBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 2
Views: 4935
Last post 28/11/2009 20:39:38
by Soul Surfer
How valid is the "build your resistance theory"?

Started by Johann Mahne Board Cells, Microbes & Viruses

Replies: 3
Views: 4514
Last post 29/10/2011 19:18:45
by Geezer
How does Hawking's radiation helps in figuring out "the theory of everything"?

Started by Dr AmruthaBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 43
Views: 12941
Last post 13/06/2016 11:00:07
by LarryLee Booth
MOVED: New Theory: How electromagnetic radiation change from inverse cubic to inverse square

Started by Colin2BBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 0
Views: 790
Last post 28/10/2019 22:43:40
by Colin2B
What does theory predict for the average velocity of a single atom in a black hole?

Started by John Burnap Board Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 0
Views: 2936
Last post 06/02/2011 21:30:03
by John Burnap
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.269 seconds with 75 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.