[duffyd]

Would you list examples that demonstrate the difficulties they had as non-Christians?

Let's begin with the difficulty of being the wrong sort of Christian in Northern Ireland, and work back through history. But I don't have time to list all the expulsions and pogroms that form the proud history of that spurious excuse for obnoxious behavior.
However

Princess Diana’s mother, Frances Shand Kydd, was Jewish — born Frances Ruth Burke Roche, a Rothschild. If factual, that would be sufficient for Princess Diana to be certified Jewish, as well as her son, William, the future King of England.

and he's a nice guy, too.
 

What is the wrong kind of Christian? It was only the right kind of Christian who wasn't discriminated against? You refer to organizations with names associated with Christ as the perpetrators of all kinds of evil. What do organizations have to do with Christ? With being Christian? If the wrong type of Christian received mistreatment by the right kind, I doubt the right kind was Christian.
"Dixie democrats" were known for resisting civil rights in the U.S. My folks, who were devoted Democrats, strongly favored civil rights. To say that democrats were a bunch of racists is nuts. Labels can do terrible damage. Don't lump real Christians in with the likes of that mouse benny hinn, snake handlers, all Catholics, all any group.

[Petrochemicals]

I do not know, but jesus cried out on the cross, anyone who tells you that 'having faith' and 'that its possible', get them to explain why god (or prophet imbued with divine power)clothed in human flesh, did so sucuumb to his mortal fallable biological weakness. He could have run  to timbuktu, point is Jeeeezzzusssss wernt up to it.

[alancalverd]

What is the wrong kind of Christian?

If you are a Protestant knuckledragging criminal, it's a Catholic. And vice versa. Or, if you go back a bit in history, a Quaker, or a member of any of the Brethren sects. And of course anyone who uses the term "real Christians" despises everyone else. It's just gang warfare in the name of Jesus.  Still, it's healthier than pogroms, crusades and inquisitions for the rest of us.

[duffyd]

I do not know, but jesus cried out on the cross, anyone who tells you that 'having faith' and 'that its possible', get them to explain why god (or prophet imbued with divine power)clothed in human flesh, did so sucuumb to his mortal fallable biological weakness. He could have run  to timbuktu, point is Jeeeezzzusssss wernt up to it.

I see. You believe He failed at his mission, which you are free to say without being banned. We are not allowed to evangelize as you know, so, we cannot honor your desire to, "get them to explain why god (or prophet imbued with divine power)clothed in human flesh, did so sucuumb to his mortal fallable biological weakness." We must remain silent, even against your wishes.

[duffyd]

What is the wrong kind of Christian?

If you are a Protestant knuckledragging criminal, it's a Catholic. And vice versa. Or, if you go back a bit in history, a Quaker, or a member of any of the Brethren sects. And of course anyone who uses the term "real Christians" despises everyone else. It's just gang warfare in the name of Jesus.  Still, it's healthier than pogroms, crusades and inquisitions for the rest of us.

The spirit of hatred and bitterness in you is equally as troublesome as those you condemn.
I not only don't know exactly how the term "evangelism" is applied on N.S.; no one has defined its forbidden boundaries. IOW, I don't know what I'm allowed to say and what is verboten.

But, it is true according to a wide swath of various people, that the truth is Christ is not about hatred. Is that considered preaching, stating fact, evangelism? I don't know. I ask an expert to help me.

He said that man's heart is loaded with evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. I have everyone. Less so now. I have a daily reprieve. He said he was the remedy. Odd thing for a human being to say, don't you think?

[alancalverd]

I don't hate anyone apart from those who justify their wrongdoing by faith.

If you want to see real hatred, watch your television news (proper news, not Trump propaganda) and see how Catholics and Protestants treat each other in Northern Ireland, or Buddhists treat Muslims in Myanmar, or Muslims treat everyone in ISIS- or Taliban-controlled territories. Or read your history books and learn about the partition riots in  India.

[Colin2B]

We are not allowed to evangelize as you know, so, we cannot honor your desire to, "get them to explain why god (or prophet imbued with divine power)clothed in human flesh, did so sucuumb to his mortal fallable biological weakness." We must remain silent, even against your wishes.

You don’t have to evangelise or preach to answer this.

I do not know, but jesus cried out on the cross, anyone who tells you that 'having faith' and 'that its possible', get them to explain why god (or prophet imbued with divine power)clothed in human flesh, did so sucuumb to his mortal fallable biological weakness. He could have run  to timbuktu, point is Jeeeezzzusssss wernt up to it.

This crying out has caused a great deal of discussion in theological circles.

If you start from the assumption that Jesus was God, then you have to accept that he knew what was going to happen and went through with it in order to fulfil the prophecies in the OT and to start the whole Christianity on its way. The crying out is from Psalm 22 so is a direct reference to OT and its prophecies.

Albert Schweitzer thought that Jesus died in disillusionment, that he had spent his ministry expecting God to bring the kingdom of God directly through Jesus' ministry, and God did not do it. Schweitzer believed that Jesus allowed himself to be arrested and led right to execution expecting that God was going to rescue him at the last moment. That assumes a separation between God and Jesus which can tie theologians in knots.

[Petrochemicals]

We are not allowed to evangelize as you know, so, we cannot honor your desire to, "get them to explain why god (or prophet imbued with divine power)clothed in human flesh, did so sucuumb to his mortal fallable biological weakness." We must remain silent, even against your wishes.

You don’t have to evangelise or preach to answer this.

Please do.

I do not know, but jesus cried out on the cross, anyone who tells you that 'having faith' and 'that its possible', get them to explain why god (or prophet imbued with divine power)clothed in human flesh, did so sucuumb to his mortal fallable biological weakness. He could have run  to timbuktu, point is Jeeeezzzusssss wernt up to it.

This crying out has caused a great deal of discussion in theological circles.

If you start from the assumption that Jesus was God, then you have to accept that he knew what was going to happen and went through with it in order to fulfil the prophecies in the OT and to start the whole Christianity on its way. The crying out is from Psalm 22 so is a direct reference to OT and its prophecies.

Albert Schweitzer thought that Jesus died in disillusionment, that he had spent his ministry expecting God to bring the kingdom of God directly through Jesus' ministry, and God did not do it. Schweitzer believed that Jesus allowed himself to be arrested and led right to execution expecting that God was going to rescue him at the last moment. That assumes a separation between God and Jesus which can tie theologians in knots.

Personally I believe its the heroic sacrifice played out in religion, not a culture on earth is without a story of heroic calamity. Power through belief in a value, surprisingly effective. The crying out etc is our heros suffering, it would not be much of a story if he was on his cross, straight to death,  then flying around like superman, I'd feel a little bit cheated to be honest with you given that he was apparently divine, I may well have asked for my money back.

[Colin2B]

I'd feel a little bit cheated to be honest with you given that he was apparently divine, I may well have asked for my money back.

The problem is that none of this navel gazing answers the title of the topic. Unless someone was there with an eeg or brain scanner you will never know.
He was judged to have died according to those in the accounts, but even in the 18&19C people came back to life after having been pronounced dead - you’ve probably heard of coffin bells and safety coffins. I’ve also read recent accounts of people found breathing in a mortuary.
At the end of the day you have to decide what you want to believe because science can’t take you back in time with all the required test equipment, so no proof either way.
Bit of a pointless topic for a science site.

[Petrochemicals]

I'd feel a little bit cheated to be honest with you given that he was apparently divine, I may well have asked for my money back.

The problem is that none of this navel gazing answers the title of the topic. Unless someone was there with an eeg or brain scanner you will never know.

Bit of a pointless topic for a science site.

Yes quite right. But i think this thread has been started in rebuke of some point in one of the other "god threads".

[alancalverd]

Known fact: Crucifixion is fatal if you leave the victim there long enough.

Probable fact: Jesus was crucified. Pretty standard form of exemplary execution in Roman colonies.

Most probable conclusion: Jesus died on the cross. Plenty of others did.

Next question, please.

[duffyd]

MODERATOR WARNING
DO NOT PREACH/EVANGELISE

THIS POST HAS BEEN REMOVED

[Petrochemicals]

MODERATOR WARNING
DO NOT PREACH/EVANGELISE

THIS POST HAS BEEN REMOVED

Thank you Colin

[jerrygg38]

To understand if Jesus died on the cross we  must first understand what was Jesus? No one knows since no one was there except the Father God. The best information I have is from my encounters, dreams, and visions. From history we know that there were many Jews hung on crosses during that time. We also know that there were faith healers who were able to absorb spiritual energy and touch a sick person. The excessive energy would heal the person by super energizing their immune system. That was common.
  The virgin birth story is a common occurrence when spiritual energy from the Father God enters a woman. This fertilizes an egg and a clone of the woman is born. Its DNA is identical with the mother. Thus one particular Jewish Child was a male copy of the mother.
  The Father God of the Earth has the ability to enter the minds of various people. He inserts false memory into their minds. They write Gospel stories from the false memories. To the writers it is true. The events tend to be mythological with a mixture of historical fact.
   What is true and what is false? Both the Bible and Gospels are a mixture of mythology and history.  Why has God done this? Perhaps the answer is human freedom. God gives us the choice to believe or not to believe. He wants doubt which insures freedom.

[Bored chemist]

Known fact: Crucifixion is fatal if you leave the victim there long enough.

The biggest word in that sentence is "if".

[alancalverd]

There's no urgency in removing the victim. Indeed the report of a soldier poking him with a spear suggests that he was indeed dead before removal. The Romans were pretty thorough at killing people.

There would have been little point in subsequently removing the body from the tomb otherwise.

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras".

[duffyd]

There's no urgency in removing the victim. Indeed the report of a soldier poking him with a spear suggests that he was indeed dead before removal. The Romans were pretty thorough at killing people.

There would have been little point in subsequently removing the body from the tomb otherwise.

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras".

There would have been little point in subsequently removing the body from the tomb otherwise.

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras".

Once again, Big Al comes through. He knows where it's at.
It makes sense. He was dead. Obviously, they knew he was dead. So, they rolled the stone away, grabbed his corpse and hid and cowered, terrified they could be next, or at least be in grave danger. Not to worry. Soon, they realized they could go around shouting from the top of their lungs to anyone who would listen, that their boy Jesus had risen from the dead, free of the slightest concern for their own safety and their family's. Yes sir, by golly, the jig was up, so spontaneously, right then and there, they called a sit-down and plotted to unite in a conspiratorial campaign to sacrifice everything by pretending this nut was still hanging out. Well, it makes sense. It really does. Most stable, grown, mature, devout, hard working, conscientious, Jewish men did the same thing. The history books are filled with their stories. In fact, most solid citizens from everywhere make up bull to get themselves whacked over it. It's actually quite the rage and it only makes perfect, logical sense.

[Bored chemist]

"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras".

Yes.
The zebra is the resurrection of someone who was actually dead.
The horse is a bunch of soldiers got lazy and screwed up an execution- lets face it; they did lots. You can see how they might have had the odd botch job.

It's vastly more likely that something possible happened than that something impossible happened.

[duffyd]

 Pharisees gathered together with Pilate, and said, “Sir, we remember that when He was still alive that deceiver said, ‘After three days I am to rise again.’ “Therefore, give orders for the grave to be made secure until the third day, otherwise His disciples may come and steal Him away and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead,’ and the last deception will be worse than the first.” Pilate said to them, “You have a guard; go, make it as secure as you know how.” And they went and made the grave secure, and along with the guard they set a seal on the stone.

They weren't stupid. They knew perfectly well how duplicitous those dirty rotten criminals who followed that deceiver were. Oh no. They weren't going to take any chances against those conniving scoundrels.
How did Al know what they pulled off? Very good, Big Al. I guess they probably shot the guard in the head with a sling shot, knocked him out cold, and pulled off one heck of a heist, baby. Congratulations, BA! You did it again. 

[duffyd]

I do not know, but jesus cried out on the cross, anyone who tells you that 'having faith' and 'that its possible', get them to explain why god (or prophet imbued with divine power)clothed in human flesh, did so sucuumb to his mortal fallable biological weakness. He could have run  to timbuktu, point is Jeeeezzzusssss wernt up to it.

Twernt up to what? Hanging naked in front of his mom, watching her watch him die slowly an agonizing death? Observing her scream and pound the ground and plead for his executioners to take him down? Covered lightly in a mist of his blood, dirty, grimy begging God to save her baby, her precious boy, "Please God, please God, please God, GOD, GOD, GOD, GOD! He never hurt anyone." Dag, am I preaching?