experimental heat recovery devices

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Offline Hadrian

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« on: 22/04/2007 20:28:43 »
hi everyone

my cousen has this little castle and he trying yo keep it going. he posted this on my forum and i just thought that somone here might like to help he
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we're working on converting a conventional diesel generator to run heat pumps. Its located in the castle dungeons. we're installing experimental heat recovery devices. Charleville Castle is a heat sink. It needs all the Heat that it can get to stay alive - Our Challenge? do it the right way - local-global

We used to have engineer trainees working on it but the local politicos seem to not be impressed - so lately we are having to move on with volunteers.

so - H E L P  with ideas  experience H E L P


you find his origional post on this Click Here


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Offline tony6789

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« Reply #1 on: 23/04/2007 16:48:17 »
sweet site i like it!
LCPL Hart USMC 6400 I Level Avionics

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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #2 on: 23/04/2007 18:31:28 »
thanks

he is seriously looking for help on this so if anyone can help please let me know


for those who are into history this is where the act of union 1800 was singed




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Offline neilep

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« Reply #3 on: 23/04/2007 22:49:26 »
hi everyone

my cousen has this little castle and he trying yo keep it going. he posted this on my forum and i just thought that somone here might like to help he
[/size]


 
we're working on converting a conventional diesel generator to run heat pumps. Its located in the castle dungeons. we're installing experimental heat recovery devices. Charleville Castle is a heat sink. It needs all the Heat that it can get to stay alive - Our Challenge? do it the right way - local-global

We used to have engineer trainees working on it but the local politicos seem to not be impressed - so lately we are having to move on with volunteers.

so - H E L P  with ideas  experience H E L P


you find his origional post on this Click Here



Oh My gawwwwwwwd !!

I wish I had a cousin with a castle !!

I will put my thinking hat on !!..

without even looking at the original thread I presume the long term goal is to open it to the public yes ?
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline neilep

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« Reply #4 on: 23/04/2007 22:51:56 »
Or is it already open to the public ?...I know..I'll just go and read and find out !!!!...DOH !!
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline neilep

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« Reply #5 on: 23/04/2007 22:52:52 »
Hadran... George may be good on suggesting some things !!
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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #6 on: 23/04/2007 22:54:14 »
its already open to the public.

here is some more photos of it
PHOTOS

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Offline Seany

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« Reply #7 on: 23/04/2007 22:57:55 »
Woww.. This is amazing! How many bedrooms? [:o]
They say that when you die, your life flashes in front of you. Make it worth watching!


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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #8 on: 23/04/2007 23:03:21 »
well there is at leats 50 on one floor that i know of

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Offline Seany

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« Reply #9 on: 23/04/2007 23:18:39 »
OUCH!!! Not a "little" castle then! Pffft LOL
They say that when you die, your life flashes in front of you. Make it worth watching!


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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #10 on: 23/04/2007 23:20:45 »
sorry just being a tad understated   [^]

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another_someone

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« Reply #11 on: 23/04/2007 23:21:13 »
I like the fact that everybody (or at least somebody) thinks I can have miracle solutions [:)]

I am not an architect, nor a heating engineer, and even they would want to see more details about the specific situation.

The problem is that so much depends on how much can be done without damaging the historic authenticity of the building.  Simply draught proofing the property would be great, but a drought proofed castle would scarcely be genuine.

Another option might be to try an extract heat from the ground (the soil is often good at retaining heat).

Do you get a lot of wind in the area - could you somehow build a wind break to reduce the wind reaching the building?

Could you build a lake in some nearby sunny location (maybe under a greenhouse), and pump the water to the castle?

All maybe crazy ideas, but I would think all of the sane ideas have already been tried.

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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #12 on: 23/04/2007 23:26:43 »
thanks George i will pass it on if that ok?

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another_someone

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« Reply #13 on: 24/04/2007 00:54:01 »
thanks George i will pass it on if that ok?

I fully expected you would.  Let me know exactly how insane they think the ideas are.

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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #14 on: 24/04/2007 08:04:16 »
thanks George i will pass it on if that ok?

I fully expected you would.  Let me know exactly how insane they think the ideas are.



will do thanks

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paul.fr

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« Reply #15 on: 24/04/2007 08:13:10 »
sorry Hadrian, i can not help. I just wonder if you adopt 30 something year old children? i would love to stop at my adopted relatives home in the country  [;)]

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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #16 on: 24/04/2007 08:26:55 »
well all my family have joined my forum so who knows what might happen if you did............LOL  [;D] [;D]

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Offline daveshorts

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« Reply #17 on: 24/04/2007 12:59:52 »
I don't know if adding solar water heaters on the roof would ruin the aesthetics - I guess it would. Unless you could get some which were made of lead.
 And I guess you couldn't put any up in a nearby field. CHP is probably a good option though and insulating anything not obvious - roof spaces etc. Funamentaly castles are cold though..

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Offline Guttedpiggy

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« Reply #18 on: 24/04/2007 14:03:56 »
 Holey Moley! thats one mahusive castle =| how much is it worth?!?!

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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #19 on: 24/04/2007 17:12:41 »
I don't know if adding solar water heaters on the roof would ruin the aesthetics - I guess it would. Unless you could get some which were made of lead.
 And I guess you couldn't put any up in a nearby field. CHP is probably a good option though and insulating anything not obvious - roof spaces etc. Funamentaly castles are cold though..


Thanks dave i will pass it on

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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #20 on: 25/04/2007 00:47:01 »
Holey Moley! thats one mahusive castle =| how much is it worth?!?!

you can put a price on somethink like that

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Offline neilep

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« Reply #21 on: 25/04/2007 00:49:49 »
Have you consulted with the National Trust...?..they must come across things like this all the time !
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Offline BillJx

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« Reply #22 on: 25/04/2007 05:36:54 »
By heat pumps, I first assumed you meant the type that works like a refrigerator in reverse, transferring heat from the ground, water or air to the building.  This requires much less energy than directly producing heat, but the initial cost is higher.  In your case I'd think it would pay for itself fairly quickly.

A refrigerator is a heat pump which moves heat from a cold place (the inside of your fridge) to a warm place (the kitchen).  Similarly, a heat pump used for building heat can work efficiently even when the outside temperature is fairly cold.

The in-ground type is more efficient than the air coil type, the disadvantages for most people being the higher installation cost and the yard space required.  Obviously the latter isn't a problem for you!  And with your heating requirement being so large, I'd think that efficiency would be the main consideration.

It's also possible to use solar panels to add heat to the ground, if there's a place you can mount them without spoiling the visual integrity of the place.  Most people who use heat pumps use them for heating in winter and cooling in summer, so for them, adding solar heat to the ground in summer would be counterproductive.  In your application, if heat is all you want, a large enough solar installation could store most of the heat you need.

The community in the following link doesn't use heat pumps, it just uses stored heat.  But note a few things: 1) the panels are only on the garage roofs, and still provide 90% of the year's heating requirements. 2) winters are colder and longer than in England, but the climate is sunnier and the houses are much better insulated than your castle!
The linked website is a bit dated.  The project is up and running now, and fully occupied.  I expect those involved in the project would find your application quite fascinating and would be rather excited to give you some direction. My guess is that a simplified form of this system, adapted to a ground source heat pump system, would be a workable answer for you.
http://www.dlsc.ca/
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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #23 on: 25/04/2007 09:27:25 »
thaks BillJX I will pass that on too.............



« Last Edit: 25/04/2007 09:29:45 by Hadrian »

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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #24 on: 25/04/2007 09:29:26 »
Have you consulted with the National Trust...?..they must come across things like this all the time !


 National Trust is in the UK only...... we have an equivalent but they are now so keen..........

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Offline neilep

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« Reply #25 on: 25/04/2007 14:48:21 »
Have you consulted with the National Trust...?..they must come across things like this all the time !


 National Trust is in the UK only...... we have an equivalent but they are now so keen..........

May I ask (if you know them) what reasons have been cited for their lack of interest.......it's stunningly beautiful !!...how old is it Hadrian ?
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #26 on: 25/04/2007 23:11:11 »
Have you consulted with the National Trust...?..they must come across things like this all the time !


 National Trust is in the UK only...... we have an equivalent but they are now so keen..........

May I ask (if you know them) what reasons have been cited for their lack of interest.......it's stunningly beautiful !!...how old is it Hadrian ?


why don't you  post up those questions fro dud to answer on our forum

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another_someone

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« Reply #27 on: 25/04/2007 23:29:12 »
why don't you  post up those questions fro dud to answer on our forum

Or why doesn't Dud join up here to answer these question [:)]

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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #28 on: 28/04/2007 00:15:28 »
Hi again this is the response so far




One of the big problems we are facing is that we have a massive space to protect - we have to keep temp just above condsation (Dew) Point all the time but also apply serious ventilation.

The National Utility (ESB Networks) also has refused to sufficient power - so these last 5 years the castle has been operating separate from the grid - on its own - with generators only - so we have waste heat - gennies also work well with motive power i.e. heat pumps .. and we have lots of space to put down heat recovery pipes within the old Moat wall

Keep advising ... thanks



Yes I agree with you - heat pumps - but also CHP with bio-fuels
see post above

we could do some solar on the ground (Moat) though?

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Offline eric l

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« Reply #29 on: 28/04/2007 16:06:46 »
Looks like this is just the case for "combined heat and power".  See Wikipedia article on that subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_combined_heat_and_power

In this case, part of the electricity produced could be used for heating purposes in rooms that need not be heated constantly. 

Mind you, this kind of thing does not come cheap (investmentwise) but they run cheap because both the energy and the heat are used.
"Wonder is no wonder" (Simon Stevin 1548-1620)

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Offline Hadrian

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« Reply #30 on: 28/04/2007 18:14:52 »
Looks like this is just the case for "combined heat and power".  See Wikipedia article on that subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_combined_heat_and_power

In this case, part of the electricity produced could be used for heating purposes in rooms that need not be heated constantly. 

Mind you, this kind of thing does not come cheap (investmentwise) but they run cheap because both the energy and the heat are used.


Thanks I will pass it on