The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Member Map
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. General Science
  3. General Science
  4. Fossil Solar: A New Method of Generating Electricity?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Fossil Solar: A New Method of Generating Electricity?

  • 2 Replies
  • 587 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ThoughtTransmitter (OP)

  • First timers
  • *
  • 1
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Fossil Solar: A New Method of Generating Electricity?
« on: 28/11/2018 03:51:40 »
This is an invention. It sounds stupid, but makes lots of sense, whenever (reliably) making electricity (without moving parts matters).

Put Simply: I wish to: Burn fossil fuel, to make light, to power solar panels 24/7, then recycle the waste heat, for heating buildings.

This idea began with me, looking at the blue light, from a gas boiler flame.
It got much better when: I discovered there are far better ways, of making light, than by just using flame. I figure there is a big market for it, since Combined Heat & Power isn't usually done on a small scale, and one major reason for this, is because moving parts, tend to require lots maintenance (alright on a large scale, but not so much, within the home).
There are many small/medium sized, community heating systems, that could benefit from this idea.

Put More Technically...
1. Burn methane, at it’s flame temperature of 1950C
2. To heat vaporised sodium metal (inside a stainless steel heat exchange) to 1000C.
3. At this temperature it converts heat into light, very efficiently. About 200 lumens per watt.
4. The vapour flows into tubes of borax glass (the same glass used for sodium light bulbs).
5. To further increase efficiency: Several layers of ordinary, transparent glass, encircle these borax glass tubes.
They work by letting light through, but holding back infrared. This reduces temperature difference, which in turn reduces temperature loss.
These ordinary glass tubes (in effect working as: infrared heat reflectors) are very close to the borax glass tube, but not so close, that they physically touch (this enables a vacuum, to further frustrates heat loss)

The light from the Sodium Vapour Tube is almost perfect for solar panels, but less than perfect for street lighting.
This is because it consists of (almost entirely) of just two, very close together, yellow coloured, light frequencies).

6. It now enters an (ideally) circular shaped, solar panel, tube (it again being separated by a vacuum from the heat reflecting glass tubes, themselves being likewise (as said) separated, from the Borax glass, light emitting tube).

*Since these solar panels will not not be hammered by the "Shockley–Queisser Limit" (which exists because ordinary sunlight, is many light frequencies, yet any single solar panel is only ever, especially good at converting just one light frequency into electricity) a very extreme, light conversion efficiencies of 85% into electricity, should be obtainable, according to this chart: (can't show)

7. Even at 85% efficiency, these solar tubes (would) quickly get hot. This is bad, because for every degree centigrade a solar panel gains, represents about 0.25% reduction in electrical output.
But not to worry: The solar panels are cooled by being within a glass tube, flooded with clear (demineralised) water. This water (being demineralised and therefore slightly expensive) dumps its heat, into a heat exchange, cooled by ordinary air-water.
 
8. It's here (where ordinary air-water is heated) that this air or water, can be used to heat any building.
Unfortunately: Every 10 degrees of heat, represent a 2.5% reduction in solar electricity output (so for water at 60C hot, that's a 15% reduction, if water of 0C could be used to cool the "solar"). Therefore (just like in the ground-earth heat pumps) it pays to have a large heat exchanging area (like a heated floor), providing lots of heat, through only a small temperature gradient.
It's also going to be problematic to use in a gas/Stirling engine, since these engines, like high temperatures (for efficiency), yet every degree costs solar output. Consequently (if it's not used in a building) then it's truly Waste Heat, and the lower temperature it is dumped into the ground/sea/lake, the better electricity production will be.

However...
Has anyone heard of anything like this? Because the crazy thing is, it's very easy, to further increase efficiency, and in addition (altogether separately) further increase returns, on capital investment.
But one issue is, I don't know how efficient Sodium Vapour Lamps are at turning heat into light (i.e. what % heat is converted into light?)

I only read all over Google they are still the most efficient (though the latest LED'a produce a better quality light, and more efficiently given they make it only one direction).

The next issue is: I'm no fan of patents. I'd rather be paid (by a company very experienced at defending them), to further increase efficiency. I know that by publishing here, I have invalidated any ability to patent anything published (its to do with stupid patent rules). But that's ok, as there's more, where this idea came from.

Overall...
It's silent, reliable (unlike a solar panel), doesn't need moving parts (Convection will move the vapour around, though a small circulator would help) and most of all it's low maintenance. Environmentally it beats burning fuel, to heat water (as does all Combined Heat and Power).
It would be interesting to power a commercial ship (or even a car) this way, because despite the weight of the glass & solar panels, what you gain is the ability to have a very, Clean Burning flame (which means less deaths, from air traffic pollution as its the unburned parts, that do most of the damage).
« Last Edit: 28/11/2018 03:59:43 by ThoughtTransmitter »
Logged
 



Offline BethWise

  • First timers
  • *
  • 2
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
    • สโบเบท
Re: Fossil Solar: A New Method of Generating Electricity?
« Reply #1 on: 28/11/2018 08:46:05 »
Natutunan ko at may katuturan sa forum na ito, kaya marami akong nilalaman.
Logged
 

Offline Colin2B

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 4456
  • Activity:
    14%
  • Thanked: 377 times
    • View Profile
Re: Fossil Solar: A New Method of Generating Electricity?
« Reply #2 on: 28/11/2018 09:07:53 »
Quote from: BethWise on 28/11/2018 08:46:05
Natutunan ko at may katuturan sa forum na ito, kaya marami akong nilalaman.
maaari mo bang gawin ang iyong mga komento sa Ingles kung gaano karaming mga tao ang hindi nagsasalita ng Filipino
Logged
and the misguided shall lead the gullible,
the feebleminded have inherited the earth.
 



  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 

Similar topics (5)

Because we have no dark matter planet in our solar system, can we assume that dark matter is not sticking to itself?

Started by thedocBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 3
Views: 2649
Last post 18/08/2016 02:39:19
by PmbPhy
Is solar energy the same as light energy?

Started by FeliciaBoard Technology

Replies: 5
Views: 14447
Last post 02/06/2019 10:05:58
by Bored chemist
MOVED: Is the designation "positive" and "negative" in electricity arbitrary?

Started by Colin2BBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 0
Views: 109
Last post 27/11/2019 10:48:10
by Colin2B
Can solar energy be converted to mechanical energy in this way?

Started by thinhnghiemBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 0
Views: 1936
Last post 29/07/2016 09:40:02
by thinhnghiem
Is there an escape velocity to escape the/a solar system?

Started by Pseudoscience-is-malarkeyBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 3
Views: 3312
Last post 04/10/2016 10:44:26
by evan_au
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.119 seconds with 42 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.