[mad aetherist (OP)]

I had another look this week at some of G Pollack's videos & papers re EZ water being the fourth phase of water.  Very interesting. It explains how & why......

EZ water forms in parallel layers up to 1 million layers thick, next to interfaces.
EZ water layers have a hexagonal planar lattice -- & can be called . 
EZ water has a negative charge -- protons sit in the next to the EZ water.
During formation the EZ layers drive non-water out ahead.
Photonic radiation increases the number of layers by up to X10, especially infra red.
EZ water is good at absorbing UV photons.
The speed of light in EZ water is 10% slower than in  .
Smaller water droplets in the air are made of EZ water.
If droplets are large they can be seen, eg fog & clouds.
EZ water droplets repel, protons are attracted, & at a certain separation there is in effect an attraction.
cannot make ice -- EZ water makes ice.
Explains why ice is less dense than EZ water.
EZ water naturally flows along micro tubes -- light increases the flow.

Gerald Pollack –  Electrically Structured Water – Part 1 & 2.

Dr P M Robitaille – The structure of water.

[mad aetherist (OP)]

It all helps to answer lots of questions re lightning & formation of ice on powerlines etc etc.
And of course it explains the very strong nature of surface tension.

After eye operations patients sometimes mention that vizion is hazy & blurry.  The haziness is due to lots of dust-like specks in the fluid of the eye.  The blurriness is due to EZ water forming around each speck, making a diameter equal to praps 1 million layers, & the EZ water has a 10% larger refractive index than .  Actually the refractive index must i think be more complicated than that, due to the very layered nature of EZ water.
And patients report bad glare problems -- due of course to the X10 increase in layers of EZ water when bombarded by photons.

[evan_au]

Sorry, there are at least 11 known phases of solid water (ice), so any extra phases would have to be #13 or so...

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_(data_page)#Phase_diagram

[mad aetherist (OP)]

Sorry, there are at least 11 known phases of solid water (ice), so any extra phases would have to be #13 or so...

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_(data_page)#Phase_diagram

Interesting. But that chart is wrong.
Firstly there is only one phase of ice shown at Earthly pressures, so we can forget the other 10.
Nextly it shows only one phase of water, so it is krapp.
Nextly it only shows one phase of vapour, so it is krapp here too.

Pollack shows that there are 2 phases of water, H2O & H3O2 (EZ water). Or u can call the EZ water a gell if u like.
And i reckon that there are 2 phases of vapour. One is a gas, H2O (probly not really a vapour), mixed with air.  The other is air with drops of EZ water (the usual thing found) mixed with air.

One can add another phase i suppose, vapour drops with H2O inside with a skin of EZ water, mixed with air.

So the standard model misses 3 phases, it misses EZ water, & it misses H2O gas, & it misses vapour where the droplets have H2O inside with a skin of EZ water.
And thems useless ten phases of ice that dont occur naturally on Earth can be ignored.

[The Spoon]

Pollack shows that there are 2 phases of water, H2O & H3O2 (EZ water). Or u can call the EZ water a gell if u like.

H3O2 is not water though is it? In the same way as H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) is not water. The fact that it is promoted by Dr. Mercola should be a clue that it a scam...

[mad aetherist (OP)]

Pollack shows that there are 2 phases of water, H2O & H3O2 (EZ water). Or u can call the EZ water a gell if u like.

H3O2 is not water though is it? In the same way as H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) is not water. The fact that it is promoted by Dr. Mercola should be a clue that it a scam...

Yes & no. There is no such thing as H3O2, the molecule is infinite, having a hexagonal planar lattice (see the pix with the youtube link above), with an identical molecule laying parallel & offset a half hexagon in the xx & in the yy.  But apparently Pollack found some benefit in giving it that formula to differentiate it from H2O. 

[The Spoon]

Pollack shows that there are 2 phases of water, H2O & H3O2 (EZ water). Or u can call the EZ water a gell if u like.

H3O2 is not water though is it? In the same way as H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) is not water. The fact that it is promoted by Dr. Mercola should be a clue that it a scam...

Yes & no. There is no such thing as H3O2, the molecule is infinite, having a hexagonal planar lattice (see the pix with the youtube link above), with an identical molecule laying parallel & offset a half hexagon in the xx & in the yy.  But apparently Pollack found some benefit in giving it that formula to differentiate it from H2O. 

Oh well, if it is a you tube link, how could it possibly be a scam!

[The Spoon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagonal_water

' the scam takes advantage of the consumer's limited knowledge of chemistry, physics, and physiology' like the dihydrogen monoxide hoax..

[mad aetherist (OP)]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagonal_water
' the scam takes advantage of the consumer's limited knowledge of chemistry, physics, and physiology' like the dihydrogen monoxide hoax..

There might be a scam re health or something (i havnt read it), but that doesnt mean that a hexagonal planar lattice doesnt exist.

[The Spoon]

There is no such thing as H3O2

So why claim it is a phase of water?
An interesting discussion here
https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/5925/ez-water-fraud-or-breakthrough

Giving something a catchy sounding, marketing friendly name (EZ Water for example) instantly raises suspicions of a scam.

[mad aetherist (OP)]

There is no such thing as H3O2

So why claim it is a phase of water?
An interesting discussion here
https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/5925/ez-water-fraud-or-breakthrough

Giving something a catchy sounding, marketing friendly name (EZ Water for example) instantly raises suspicions of a scam.

Had a look at that link. It has no good info which in any way detracts from Pollack's EZ water theory.
EZ water is so called because as it forms it pushes non-water out ahead leaving clean water behind, giving an exclusion zone filled with hexagonal planar lattice.

[The Spoon]

EZ water is so called because as it forms it pushes non-water out ahead leaving clean water behind

What does that even mean?
Are you sure you looked at the link?

[Bored chemist]

What a load of Pollacks
And
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pierre-Marie_Robitaille
isn't any better

Nextly it shows only one phase of water, so it is krapp.

Learn to count.

There might be a scam re health or something (i havnt read it), but that doesnt mean that a hexagonal planar lattice doesnt exist.

You have that the wrong way round.
Because there is no such  thing as hexagonal water, we know it is a scam.

Nextly it only shows one phase of vapour, so it is krapp here too.

Unless you can actually show that there's more than 1 vapour phase, you are the one talking crap.
So, go on...

[mad aetherist (OP)]

EZ water is so called because as it forms it pushes non-water out ahead leaving clean water behind

What does that even mean? Are you sure you looked at the link?

The moving images in the video are wonderful, showing the growth of an EZ water layer, driving junk out ahead.  Pollack suspects that salt is also driven out ahead, but i think that he cant find a good indicator that shows this.
And i think that there is moving images of the layers of growth of ice in the EZ layers.
Pollack possibly aint sure whether salt is driven out during the EZ formation or during the ice formation.
But i  was wrong when i said that the EZ layers drive non-water ahead, because it didnt drive Pollack's pH dye out ahead (the dye that indicates the balance of electrons-protons).
I think i read all about this & saw the videos a year or two ago but one forgets -- its an aha moment in one's physics life.

[mad aetherist (OP)]

What a load of Pollacks
And https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pierre-Marie_Robitaille isn't any better

Nextly it shows only one phase of water, so it is krapp.

Learn to count.

Yes i should have said only one phase of liquid (& so it is krapp).  There are 2 phases of liquid water, H2O, & the H3O2 hexagonal planar lattice.  I suppose more than 2 phases if u start looking at exotic mixtures with a large range of non-water substances.

There might be a scam re health or something (i havnt read it), but that doesnt mean that a hexagonal planar lattice doesnt exist.

You have that the wrong way round.
Because there is no such  thing as hexagonal water, we know it is a scam.

Pollack shows that diffraction shows that it is hexagonal.
Robitaille's footage of the blackness of the water surface radiating out from an atomic test is good evidence, based on the similarity to the known blackness we find with the hex carbon in graphite. Actually this might qualify as being another phase of water (another phase of EZ water).

Nextly it only shows one phase of vapor, so it is krapp here too.

Unless you can actually show that there's more than 1 vapor phase, you are the one talking crap. So, go on...

I cant remember whether Pollack shows droplets of EZ water, i think not. It would be difficult to keep a droplet steady, & to look inside.  A measurement of the negative charge would be good evidence (there might be such a measurement in the footage). 

[Bored chemist]

Yes i should have said only one phase of liquid (& so it is krapp).

So, the best you can do is beg the question.

  I suppose more than 2 phases if u start looking at exotic mixtures with a large range of non-water substances.

And then it wouldn't be the phase diagram for water.

, based on the similarity to the known blackness we find with the hex carbon in graphite.

You can't seriously say "they both are black, so they must be the same" on a science page.

[The Spoon]

You can't seriously say "they both are black, so they must be the same" on a science page.

Maybe  he got lost on the way to the Spinal Tap forum....

[chiralSPO]

It is well known that liquid water does form a more highly ordered structure at interfaces with air and hydrophobic materials (this is the source of the hydrophobic effect)
http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/interfacial_water.html


This ordering is very important for things like nucleation of ice crystals (which doesn't happen easily in pure bulk water), and is also essential to much of biochemistry (much of the interesting chemistry happens between organic molecules that are either solvated with water or sandwiched between water and other organic bits (and the structure of water in and around proteins is quite interesting).

That said, anyone claiming that a phase of water can be represented as H₃O₂ is either ignorant or careless. No matter the arrangement, it must have the same empirical formula to be the same substance (I would be ok with H₃O_1.5, or H₄O₂, as long as there is good reason to specify the formula other than H₂O)

I haven't watched the video or followed any of the links, so I cannot comment on the rest.

EDIT: There is a another option for the discrepancy--you haven't reported it properly! Dr. Pollack could be modeling EZ water as (H⁺)(H₃O₂^–), which is reasonable.

[mad aetherist (OP)]

  I suppose more than 2 phases if u start looking at exotic mixtures with a large range of non-water substances.

And then it wouldn't be the phase diagram for water.

Yes & no. I meant the form that water might take at-near the interface (even if not very many molecule widths involved).

, based on the similarity to the known blackness we find with the hex carbon in graphite.

You can't seriously say "they both are black, so they must be the same" on a science page.

I had another look at Dr R's wonderful 28:59 video.         

This gives a step by step explanation of how water goes black in the optical under pressure, & how this gives a similar black in many hex carbon compounds when they are shocked (they form graphite).
I love Dr R's story at 19:00 of how he found (& then lost & then found again) the most important book that he had ever read -- The Effects of Nuclear Weapons (1977) -- at the urging of Dr Bailey.
At 14:10 Dr R says that Lippincott first explained the hex planar lattice of water in 1969, & that it is not mentioned in any text books (ie it has been censored).

[mad aetherist (OP)]

It is well known that liquid water does form a more highly ordered structure at interfaces with air and hydrophobic materials (this is the source of the hydrophobic effect) http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/interfacial_water.html
This ordering is very important for things like nucleation of ice crystals (which doesn't happen easily in pure bulk water), and is also essential to much of biochemistry (much of the interesting chemistry happens between organic molecules that are either solvated with water or sandwiched between water and other organic bits (and the structure of water in and around proteins is quite interesting).

That said, anyone claiming that a phase of water can be represented as H₃O₂ is either ignorant or careless. No matter the arrangement, it must have the same empirical formula to be the same substance (I would be ok with H₃O_1.5, or H₄O₂, as long as there is good reason to specify the formula other than H₂O)

I haven't watched the video or followed any of the links, so I cannot comment on the rest.

EDIT: There is a another option for the discrepancy--you haven't reported it properly! Dr. Pollack could be modeling EZ water as (H⁺)(H₃O₂^–), which is reasonable.

Excellent comments. Thanx for that link, i am working my way throo it. Yes the H3O2 is best shown negative. And it results in lots of protons in the nearby bulk water (H2O).

I guess that the info in that link is about as sensible as i will find under standard science.  Lots of it supports Pollack & Robitaille. Some of it misses the obvious (but i wont mention). Some snippets are.....

The structure of the surface is not completely understood, but some information has been determined.     Pollack & Robitaille understand it.

The aerosol mists formed at waterfalls (see left) are found to be negatively charged [2049].
Yep, because the droplets are EZ water (or mostly)(or partly).

Re slipperyness of ice -- Pollack explains that this is due to plasma (free protons) allowing slippage tween layers of the hex planar lattice.
No mention of Brownian motion being dampened in the EZ layer.
No mention of ice growing in layers in the EZ. No mention that ice cannot form in H2O.
I like the use of the term bulk water. Very good. This is of course H2O (& H3O2 at interfaces).
But i thought that u get EZ at hydrophilic interfaces not hydrophobic (i will have to have another looksee).

I am very interested in tornadoes, & lightning. This stuff will help.