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  4. How can an electromagnetic field form an em photon?
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How can an electromagnetic field form an em photon?

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Offline alright1234 (OP)

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How can an electromagnetic field form an em photon?
« on: 23/05/2019 23:40:21 »
Quantum mechanics, quantum electrodynamics, string theory, quantum field theory, quantum chromodynamics, plasma physics, condense matter physics, and particle physics use the gauge but representing Maxwell's equations with a potential does not change the fact that Maxwell's equations are derived using Faraday's induction effect that is not luminous nor can the potential of a mass-less and expanding electromagnetic induction field be used to represent the particle structure of a molecule, atom, ion, nuclei, neutron, proton, electron or subatomic particles that have a mass.
« Last Edit: 25/05/2019 13:38:56 by chris »
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Offline Colin2B

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Re: How can an electromagnetic field form an em photon?
« Reply #1 on: 24/05/2019 08:19:47 »
Quote from: alright1234 on 23/05/2019 23:40:21
Maxwell's equations are derived using Faraday's induction effect that is not luminous nor can the potential of a mass-less and expanding electromagnetic induction field
It has been explained to you in previous topics that Maxwell’s equations do not describe an expanding field. Why do you persist in posting false information?
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Offline flummoxed

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Re: How can an electromagnetic field form an em photon?
« Reply #2 on: 25/05/2019 13:04:12 »
Quote from: Colin2B on 24/05/2019 08:19:47
Quote from: alright1234 on 23/05/2019 23:40:21
Maxwell's equations are derived using Faraday's induction effect that is not luminous nor can the potential of a mass-less and expanding electromagnetic induction field
It has been explained to you in previous topics that Maxwell’s equations do not describe an expanding field. Why do you persist in posting false information?

I guess you must be annoyed with this poster.#

Maxwells equations do describe a polarized wave. The intensity of which is reduced with distance as it spreads out in space. http://wtamu.edu/~cbaird/SuppMaxwellUniqueness.pdf






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Offline flummoxed

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Re: How can an electromagnetic field form an em photon?
« Reply #3 on: 25/05/2019 13:28:25 »
Quote from: alright1234 on 23/05/2019 23:40:21
Quantum mechanics, quantum electrodynamics, string theory, quantum field theory, quantum chromodynamics, plasma physics, condense matter physics, and particle physics use the gauge but representing Maxwell's equations with a potential does not change the fact that Maxwell's equations are derived using Faraday's induction effect that is not luminous nor can the potential of a mass-less and expanding electromagnetic induction field be used to represent the particle structure of a molecule, atom, ion, nuclei, neutron, proton, electron or subatomic particles that have a mass.

A simpler link in case the one I posted above is beyond you.https://physicsmax.com/maxwells-equations-and-electromagnetic-waves-4667 but I guess since you are mentioning string theory, scary maths, then you should understand the first link.

The electromagnetic wave consists of polarized virtual particles, often called virtual photons. Virtual photons do not have the same properties as a none polarized real photon, and should not be considered to be the same thing, except that the polarized wave travels through free space at c the same as a real photon. 

Space everywhere is full of randomly orientated virtual particles coming into existence and out of existence continually. see zero point energy, quantum foam, HUP etc

If one thinks of a static charge, it polarizes the space around it via the virtual particles in space. An electric current is a moving charge it polarizes the space around it also. By modulating the field a wave radiates away from an antennae in the form of virtual particles as described by maxwells equations. Not unlike a wave moves through water, ie it spreads out.

However IF a magnetic field is strong enough it is not beyond the realms of possibility that it could seperate virtual particles giving them sufficient energy to become real. If they are not stable they will rapidly decay to photons.


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Offline alancalverd

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Re: How can an electromagnetic field form an em photon?
« Reply #4 on: 25/05/2019 22:41:51 »
The answer to "how can A produce B" in this case is "it doesn't".  We can model photons as massless particles or em waves, but all the other particles listed are massive and not modelled by Maxwell's equations.
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Offline Colin2B

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Re: How can an electromagnetic field form an em photon?
« Reply #5 on: 26/05/2019 00:26:07 »
Quote from: flummoxed on 25/05/2019 13:04:12
I guess you must be annoyed with this poster.#
Not particularly. It’s sometimes useful to have someone who makes fundamental errors so they can be corrected. A lot of secondary school students will be covering em radiation, Cavendish experiment etc and to show them examples of false thinking can be very instructive. Remember, we are primarily an educational site.
However, if someone refuses to learn and repeats false information they can outstay their welcome! Edit: see added note below.

Quote from: flummoxed on 25/05/2019 13:04:12
Maxwells equations do describe a polarized wave. The intensity of which is reduced with distance as it spreads out in space. http://wtamu.edu/~cbaird/SuppMaxwellUniqueness.pdf
So, can you point to the paragraph in Chris’s notes that show a plane wave reducing in intensity with distance?. Or a spherical wave for that matter?

To add to what @alancalverd said:
Quote from: flummoxed on 25/05/2019 13:28:25
The electromagnetic wave consists of polarized virtual particles, often called virtual photons. Virtual photons do not have the same properties as a none polarized real photon, and should not be considered to be the same thing, except that the polarized wave travels through free space at c the same as a real photon. 
This is incorrect. The em wave does not consist of virtual photons, neither is it modelled in that way in QFT

Quote from: flummoxed on 25/05/2019 13:28:25
Space everywhere is full of randomly orientated virtual particles coming into existence and out of existence continually. see zero point energy, quantum foam, HUP etc
Again incorrect, although you can be forgiven for quoting the myth beloved of pop science publications and poorly written Wiki pages. These analogies and shorthand for more complex processes should not be taken literally.
Don’t have time to write out a full explanation, but here is a good summary. https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/vacuum-fluctuation-myth/

Edit: added note:

@flummoxed - there is a big difference between yourself and @alright1234 he is not interested in learning the truth, but in promoting misunderstandings and misinterpretations. I think you are genuinely interested in learning the truth and for this reason it is worth putting aside the analogies and mathematical shortcuts that are fed to the general public and those unable to understand what is really happening out there. Virtual particles may sound very sexy and exciting, but the truth of what lies behind the terminology is even more exciting, although harder to understand.

« Last Edit: 26/05/2019 08:37:47 by Colin2B »
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