[duffyd]

That will still not change my belief that the supernatural exists. I have had too many experiences indicating the existence of the supernatural.

OH, it exists. It is more real than the strings forming our consciousness.

[duffyd]

BTW, very, very few people believe this is it, that we don't live on past our death.

[Bored chemist]

Epidemiology shows that the people who have taken the most breaths are most likely to die, but it doesn't suggest that breathing is dangerous. big al

everyone who breathes is just as likely to die as everyone else

People who have taken more breaths are more likely to die today or in the next week or in the next year, or whatever.

But don't let that stop you answering any of these questions and issues.

Why are you playing games?

We aren.
We are trying to do science-- this is, after all, a science page.
If you don't like it, the door is over there.

What's the point? I

Answering questions.
That's the point of science; finding stuff out.

If you have already decided GOD doesn't exist, why bother asking the same questions?

There is nothing in the post you quoted which  implies in any way that the poster has assumed that God does not exist.

If anything, if you ascribe properties to a God, you tacitly imply that He alt least may exist.

Why pretend that it makes the assumption there's no God?

why do you change the subject and return to past topics

Because people drag things off topic.

to ask more questions that have already been answered?

The question has not been answered.
You have pretended that it has been- but that's because you either lie about it, or you don't know what proof is.

But, if you don't want answers, why keep asking the same kinds of questions repeatedly?

To get answers

But, if you don't want answers, why keep asking the same kinds of questions repeatedly?

We do want answers.
Please provide some.

You already have the answers.

No we don't.
That's why we keep asking.

If you think we have the answer please point out where that answer is
What is the action X?

What is your point?

Trying to get you to answer a question.

Control? I think so based on your documented history on this issue.

There is no documentation of a control issue.
There is also no answer to the question.
Your statement makes no sense.

You bounce around, shifting from this to that to that and then this,

Get a mirror.
You are the one introducing new random attempts at distraction.

asking more questions until you recognize the answers you've received are more than you can handle.

Nobody has provided an answer of any sort.

Is there some satisfaction in "controlling" Christians you get?

That's absurd.
There's no  suggestion of "control" here.
You are deluding yourself.
After all, we can't stop you simply walking away.
How could we be trying to control you?

You have said you despise us.

That's just not true.

I chalenge you to show where  anyone said it.

The evidence is abundant and crystal clear that you do.

No. There really is no evidence for the idea.
Please show us what you think is evidence of that.

That's fine. You should hate us.

Hard luck; we don't.

It is fulfilment of HIS promise to us. A prophecy proven true over and over. (Science)

It's not true.
You seem to have put the word "science" in there randomly.

If you have been seeking answers with an unfeigned spirit of genuine interest,

We are.
Please let us know what the action X is.

You don't need any more information.

Yes we do. Because you have not provided any relevant information.

. Based on that fact, it certainly appears you have other motivations for making observations and asking questions.

It's not a fact that you have based it on; it's made up stuff.

But, the topic is, "can science prove GOD exists", not, "see if you humiliate people you despise by playing games with them."

We know.

Bear in mind that you don't really know very much about this topic. You may think you do, but you don't, if we are to go by your statements.

The topic is about scientific  proof of God.
We know a lot about science, and you have provided none.
The evidence shows that it is you who knows little about the topic; not us.

You've been shown many times to be incorrect

Where?
You keep saying that, I keep asking where.
You keep not answering.

, but you flee that particular aspect of the topic and raise more questions, like it is a game, like it is fun.

No.
In the real world it is always you who refuses to answer questions and points.

Notably, you refuse to show where we were actually wrong- even though I have asked.
And I think it is fair to assume that you will ignore all the questions I have asked here.

It is all scientifically proven.

No. It is not.
If you disagree, just show us the proof.

[alancalverd]

everyone who breathes is just as likely to die as everyone else

At last, a scientific fact. Keep up the good work, Duffy.

[hamdani yusuf]

Let us see how bad this pandemic (and those that might follow) gets and whether society becomes much more spiritual and accepts the hypothesis I have put forward. A period of about five years should do it. It life does not change very much, then I guess I have to accept that I was mistaken about the information given to me.

Why not let us try to minimize the damages caused by this pandemic?
Many countries have tried different methods to do so. We'll see which methods work best. As far as I know, no country exclusively relies on supernatural power to do the job.

That will still not change my belief that the supernatural exists. I have had too many experiences indicating the existence of the supernatural.

What would it take to convince you that your experiences were actually natural phenomena which are explainable for those who have complete information related to them?

[hamdani yusuf]

BTW, very, very few people believe this is it, that we don't live on past our death.

Do you believe that you already lived before you were born?

[Bored chemist]

everyone who breathes is just as likely to die as everyone else

At last, a scientific fact. Keep up the good work, Duffy.

Yep, he got something right.

Pity he missed the actual point...

[jerrygg38]

GG: Naked 4.28.2020 6pm
Duffyd says:BTW, very, very few people believe this is it, that we don't live on past our death.
GG: There are quite a lot of people who do not believe we live on past our death. However the majority of people in the world today do believe such things. Christians have heaven and hell. So do the Moslem. Hindus believe in reincarnation. When we go back to ancient Egypt we have the sun God and the pharaohs had elaborate surroundings for themselves. Often they would seal living slaves in their tombs so they would have faithful servants in the world to come. The Jews though that God at the end of days would resurrect their bones. The Nazis made this difficult since all cremated bones were mixed together.
  What value is there in living beyond the grave? Life is a mixture of positive and negative. It is mostly a net zero for most of us. For many it is definitely a negative. The concept of heaven and hell is horrible. Only a monster God would give eternal joy to some at the expense of eternal pain to many others.
   Assuming we have a just God, then everyone would achieve the same thing. The worst of man would perish and the best of man would perish as well.  So the self must be gone in either case. The worst of man perishes into nothingness while the best of man perishes into God. When an individual is absorbed by a just God along with millions of others, the net result is a collective consciousness with no memory of the individual. Thus in death we do live on for a few minutes and then are gone forever.

[CliveG]

GG: Naked 4.28.2020 6pm
Duffyd says:BTW, very, very few people believe this is it, that we don't live on past our death.
GG: There are quite a lot of people who do not believe we live on past our death. However the majority of people in the world today do believe such things. Christians have heaven and hell. So do the Moslem. Hindus believe in reincarnation. When we go back to ancient Egypt we have the sun God and the pharaohs had elaborate surroundings for themselves. Often they would seal living slaves in their tombs so they would have faithful servants in the world to come. The Jews though that God at the end of days would resurrect their bones. The Nazis made this difficult since all cremated bones were mixed together.
  What value is there in living beyond the grave? Life is a mixture of positive and negative. It is mostly a net zero for most of us. For many it is definitely a negative. The concept of heaven and hell is horrible. Only a monster God would give eternal joy to some at the expense of eternal pain to many others.
   Assuming we have a just God, then everyone would achieve the same thing. The worst of man would perish and the best of man would perish as well.  So the self must be gone in either case. The worst of man perishes into nothingness while the best of man perishes into God. When an individual is absorbed by a just God along with millions of others, the net result is a collective consciousness with no memory of the individual. Thus in death we do live on for a few minutes and then are gone forever.

You left out my theory based on experience. That when we die our souls continue in another plane of existence until we reincarnate. Some souls are terminated. The plane of existence varies from very good to very bad. It is not binary. The souls have a little memory but are mostly the essence of the person from the latest reincarnation and from all the previous reincarnations. Our souls are evolving to keep up with our physical evolution. Our souls assist the new brain to develop by guiding the connections of the neurons.

This is what I experienced when visiting my late wife. It avoid the various problems of deciding on two extremes such as Heaven and Hell, as well as answering how our brains have so much intelligence and so much built-in capability. It deals with the question of when humans became sentient enough to have a soul (all life has a soul).

[CliveG]

Let us see how bad this pandemic (and those that might follow) gets and whether society becomes much more spiritual and accepts the hypothesis I have put forward. A period of about five years should do it. It life does not change very much, then I guess I have to accept that I was mistaken about the information given to me.

Why not let us try to minimize the damages caused by this pandemic?
Many countries have tried different methods to do so. We'll see which methods work best. As far as I know, no country exclusively relies on supernatural power to do the job.

That will still not change my belief that the supernatural exists. I have had too many experiences indicating the existence of the supernatural.

What would it take to convince you that your experiences were actually natural phenomena which are explainable for those who have complete information related to them?

It is my belief that God wants serious change. That will not come about without destroying the current way of life. If that is the case, then we have much more on the way. Another round of a more serious virus? War? Famine? And other diseases?

The only thing that would convince me that my experiences were actually natural phenomena would be to demonstrate to me that they never happened. No-one has been able to explain how they could happen except by hallucination. And even during the one event, which I did take as an hallucination, it was "more real" than life and I was told that it was a way to give me the information, and for me to continue on my path.

No-one has been able to explain why there information is not a truth. I accept that the link between our brains and the supernatural world is (and must be) tenuous and very slight. This means mistakes are made. But it does not invalidate the knowledge gained.

Some people have a world-view is that God and the supernatural do not exist. They then use this as the basic premise for assuming that my experiences MUST have a natural explanation other that the supernatural. If they are right about their premise then they must be right about the conclusion. If they are wrong about their premise then they are wrong about their conclusion.

[alancalverd]

Everything that happens is by definition natural, but some natural phenomena are not explained to our satisfaction.

[CliveG]

Everything that happens is by definition natural, but some natural phenomena are not explained to our satisfaction.

You seem to confirm this statement of mine:
Some people have a world-view is that God and the supernatural do not exist. They then use this as the basic premise for assuming that my experiences MUST have a natural explanation other that the supernatural.

Why do we have a word such as "supernatural"?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural
Definition of supernatural
1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature
b : attributed to an invisible agent (such as a ghost or spirit)

[Bored chemist]

It is a jungle out there - and main stream media are clearly seen to have bias and opinion. Choose which one you want. CNN or Fox News for example. "......"...........

Clive, this series of posts appear to be off topic, can we bring the thread back to the main question rather than running 2 threads.
Thanks

I will take some care. Thanks for the civil prompt.

I think you should be taking more care.

Incidentally, re
"Can one say that cell phone usage leads to higher corona virus deaths?"
No, of course not.
That's just silly.

[alancalverd]

Why do we have a word such as "supernatural"?

Like god, it's a catchall for anything you don't understand and can't be bothered to investigate. See also "consciousness".

[jerrygg38]

Naked 4.29.2020  3 pm
CliveG said: You left out my theory based on experience. That when we die our souls continue in another plane of existence until we reincarnate.
That is a hope of some. Others hope for termination. I studied reincarnation and cosmic reincarnation for quite a long time. It is man’s dreams. Yet it is not God’s dreams. God is interested in the survival of Godself not the survival of individual man. God is concerned with the entity MAN. He is concerned with the entity the Church and not the individual followers. The individual is nothing at all. We are just one little link in the chain of life for man. Anyway as time goes by God corrects my work in dreams. Heaven and hell are out for sure. Individual reincarnation is no longer viable. It is only the reincarnation of a people that has any meaning for God. He mixes our spirits so that we become part of future collective life. You hope for individual justice and reincarnation. That is not God’s desire.
CloiveG: Some souls are terminated. The plane of existence varies from very good to very bad. It is not binary. The souls have a little memory but are mostly the essence of the person from the latest reincarnation and from all the previous reincarnations. Our souls are evolving to keep up with our physical evolution. Our souls assist the new brain to develop by guiding the connections of the neurons.
GG: It sounds well to you as if you as an individual mean anything to God. Somehow you understanding of God are that of a judge. The bas will be punished and the good will be rewarded. What a petty God for sure. God is building higher man from us. No memory of any individual can remain. Only a collective memory has any meaning.

CliveG: This is what I experienced when visiting my late wife. It avoid the various problems of deciding on two extremes such as Heaven and Hell, as well as answering how our brains have so much intelligence and so much built-in capability. It deals with the question of when humans became sentient enough to have a soul (all life has a soul).
GG: Everything has a soul which is an image in the spiritual plane. Even a rock has a soul. It is the photonic spirit within the soul that exists for a little while after we are dead. This spirit will seek the light of his or her Gods. It will perish in the grave or become part of his God. Then he will perish into the collective. Any continuity of existence after death serves no purpose to God. You may not want to believe this because you hope for some future existence. It is far better for all of us to perish than to continue to exist in the future. It is only God that survives death. Yet billions of years from now the entire universe will self-destruct and God too will die. Then in the far future God will be reborn and evolve to be God again.

[CliveG]

Why do we have a word such as "supernatural"?

Like god, it's a catchall for anything you don't understand and can't be bothered to investigate. See also "consciousness".

You are redefining words to eliminate the possibility of God.

How can one debate when the goalposts keep moving?

[CliveG]

It is a jungle out there - and main stream media are clearly seen to have bias and opinion. Choose which one you want. CNN or Fox News for example. "......"...........

Clive, this series of posts appear to be off topic, can we bring the thread back to the main question rather than running 2 threads.
Thanks

I will take some care. Thanks for the civil prompt.

I think you should be taking more care.

Incidentally, re
"Can one say that cell phone usage leads to higher corona virus deaths?"
No, of course not.
That's just silly.

I stand corrected. Since I do take care, I will take MORE care.

Assuming the link between obesity and cell phone usage is true, explain why my reasoning is faulty as to the possibility.

[CliveG]

That is a hope of some. Others hope for termination. I studied reincarnation and cosmic reincarnation for quite a long time. It is man’s dreams. Yet it is not God’s dreams.

For most of my life I have assumed that when I die I will cease to exist, except for a while in the memory of some. My experiences tell me that there is likely to be life after death and that we reincarnate. I did not get the belief out of hope that I will not cease to exist.

A lot of people fear death and also fear the nothingness that might come, and I accept that some might believe in a soul because it offers hope. I have lived with the belief of simple termination for so long that it does not bother me that I might be wrong..

A simple rational reason for reincarnation is that the afterlife would be so full of souls it could not cope. When one goes back to man's origin as a single cell then the number of single celled souls would be even more mind-boggling. If one argues that only modern man (after Neanderthal man) has a soul then one has to ask why? What was the defining point? You should also realize that the concept of life after death has been with humankind for a very long time - probably even with the Neanderthals.

[alancalverd]

You are redefining words to eliminate the possibility of God.How can one debate when the goalposts keep moving?

I think you have neatly defined God as the ultimate moving goalpost!

[jeffreyH]

That is a hope of some. Others hope for termination. I studied reincarnation and cosmic reincarnation for quite a long time. It is man’s dreams. Yet it is not God’s dreams.

For most of my life I have assumed that when I die I will cease to exist, except for a while in the memory of some. My experiences tell me that there is likely to be life after death and that we reincarnate. I did not get the belief out of hope that I will not cease to exist.

A lot of people fear death and also fear the nothingness that might come, and I accept that some might believe in a soul because it offers hope. I have lived with the belief of simple termination for so long that it does not bother me that I might be wrong..

A simple rational reason for reincarnation is that the afterlife would be so full of souls it could not cope. When one goes back to man's origin as a single cell then the number of single celled souls would be even more mind-boggling. If one argues that only modern man (after Neanderthal man) has a soul then one has to ask why? What was the defining point? You should also realize that the concept of life after death has been with humankind for a very long time - probably even with the Neanderthals.

The problem is that before you were born there was roughly 13.5 billion years of nothingness when you didn't exist. So fearing nothingness after death is a human failing. Brought about by irrational beliefs indoctrinated into the human mind by power hungry charlatans.

Why don't you sit quietly and contemplate the value of life and living in the moment.