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  4. Is the mind intended to serve the will?
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Is the mind intended to serve the will?

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Offline yovav (OP)

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Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« on: 03/07/2020 15:30:37 »
Is our brain meant to serve the will?
Try to think about it...
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #1 on: 03/07/2020 16:00:59 »
Intended by whom?
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #2 on: 03/07/2020 17:32:27 »
The will is created by the brain.
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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #3 on: 03/07/2020 18:04:12 »
Quote from: yovav on 03/07/2020 15:30:37
Try to think about it...
We not only tried, we succeeded.
You cannot separate mind and brain; it is the complex pathways of the brain that creates the mind and hence the will (or lack of it).
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Offline Bill S

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #4 on: 03/07/2020 20:38:16 »
Hi Yovav, welcome. 

There may be more in your question than is reflected in the responses. 
You may need to be a bit more specific, though.
E.g. by “meant to” are you considering intelligent design?  Are you looking at a dualist view of the relationship between brain and mind/will? 

No positive responses guaranteed, but “Try to think about it...”  :)
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Offline evan_au

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #5 on: 03/07/2020 23:09:10 »
Quote from: OP
Is the mind intended to serve the will?
I think that there is a lot of debate about what "will" is, just as there is a lot of debate about what "consciousness" is.

I think that "will" is like an "intent": a goal that you dedicate your mind (and often body) to achieve.
- These could be short-term goals, that can be solved in 30 seconds
- or lifetime ambitions that take 30 years

I think animals can demonstrate a will, at least in the short-term context: I regularly hide a treat for my dog, and when I tell him to find it, you can see that his entire mind and body is dedicated to this goal.

In the longer-term context, animals can demonstrate a will in how ambitious they are in their social hierarchy: Some want to get to the top, no matter what; others are more shy, and will back off rather than engage in conflict.

For some of the debate, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_(philosophy)

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Offline yovav (OP)

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #6 on: 04/07/2020 06:00:56 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 03/07/2020 16:00:59
Intended by whom?

by us
Try to look at a different angle, before any thought the will exist
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Offline yovav (OP)

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #7 on: 04/07/2020 06:10:53 »
Quote from: Bill S on 03/07/2020 20:38:16
Hi Yovav, welcome. 

There may be more in your question than is reflected in the responses. 
You may need to be a bit more specific, though.
E.g. by “meant to” are you considering intelligent design?  Are you looking at a dualist view of the relationship between brain and mind/will? 

No positive responses guaranteed, but “Try to think about it...”  :)

Do you agree with me that everyone is born with certain cognitive qualifications?
And was he also born with a different will  to make him unique?
One is born with a will to make money the other is born with a will to gain control, the third in general wants to be a scientist and does not care about money or respect.
My wonderment is that the brain and the talented are actually talented to serve the same desire
On the contrary, we think the brain is the leader of all organs
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Offline yovav (OP)

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #8 on: 04/07/2020 06:12:54 »
Quote from: Colin2B on 03/07/2020 18:04:12
ou cannot separate mind and brain
I do not know if I cannot separate will from mind. But I still do not understand how a material organ produces thoughts
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Offline yovav (OP)

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #9 on: 04/07/2020 06:14:02 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 03/07/2020 17:32:27
The will is created by the brain.
How did you come to this conclusion?
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Offline yovav (OP)

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #10 on: 04/07/2020 06:22:03 »
Quote from: evan_au on 03/07/2020 23:09:10
what
You're right so I'll try to be more focused.
Each of us is born with different cognitive abilities. They are not always in accordance with the essence of our will.
For example, if the essence of my will was money and I did not have the skills to achieve this will then I would probably have difficulty in fulfilling the will.
Hence there is a distinction between cognitive and general will.
However, I wonder if the essence of our will is actually the source and root that surrounds the brain to serve its purpose.
Hence the mind is only a tool used to will.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #11 on: 04/07/2020 06:24:58 »
Quote from: yovav on 04/07/2020 06:14:02
How did you come to this conclusion?

The same way that one can conclude that the behavior of a computer comes from the physical system that the program is encoded in. That, and also the fact that damaging the brain sufficiently makes you lose consciousness and therefore your will.
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Offline yovav (OP)

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #12 on: 04/07/2020 06:37:52 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 04/07/2020 06:24:58
Quote from: yovav on 04/07/2020 06:14:02
How did you come to this conclusion?

The same way that one can conclude that the behavior of a computer comes from the physical system that the program is encoded in. That, and also the fact that damaging the brain sufficiently makes you lose consciousness and therefore your will.
You wrote well, but here the question is whether we are built just like the computer.
The computer was not born with the essence of a will that dictates to him during his life his thoughts and actions.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #13 on: 04/07/2020 06:41:54 »
Quote from: yovav on 04/07/2020 06:37:52
The computer was not born with the essence of a will that dictates to him during his life his thoughts and actions.

That's what the brain does. It is the part of us that allows us to make decisions and carry them out. Get rid of the brain and you get rid of our ability to will anything.
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Offline yovav (OP)

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #14 on: 04/07/2020 10:27:53 »
I think this is a clarification that science has not finished giving answers yet
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Offline Colin2B

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #15 on: 04/07/2020 12:55:15 »
Quote from: yovav on 04/07/2020 10:27:53
I think this is a clarification that science has not finished giving answers yet
It would be a very sad day if we knew everything and had nothing else to learn.

Just as the heart is a pump and the kidneys are filters, the brain is an organ that provides all the processing we consider to be our mind. We divide what we consider to be the mind into different functions - will, intellect, emotions, intelligence, memory, etc; however, they are all different functions of the brain.
In the past you could study the structure and workings of the brain or you could study the psychology of the mind, now with the wide availability of brain scanners we can begin to link the 2 seeing which areas of the brain are active in different types of thinking.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Is the mind intended to serve the will?
« Reply #16 on: 04/07/2020 22:30:59 »
Quote from: yovav on 04/07/2020 10:27:53
I think this is a clarification that science has not finished giving answers yet

What is your alternative explanation?
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Offline yovav (OP)

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Re: Are we really made of stardust?
« Reply #17 on: 05/07/2020 17:43:31 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 04/07/2020 22:35:59
Quote from: yovav on 04/07/2020 10:38:35
Are we really made of stardust?

It's something of a metaphor. Almost all of the elements in the Universe heavier than helium were forged inside of stars. So the carbon, oxygen, nitrogen and other elements in our body came from stars. It's probable that much of the hydrogen in our bodies is primordial, but even that hydrogen may have been inside of stars at some point.
so, Is there a possibility that our will pattern is also uniquely designed from molecules ?
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Offline yovav (OP)

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Re: Re: Are we really made of stardust?
« Reply #18 on: 05/07/2020 17:47:28 »
Quote from: evan_au on 04/07/2020 23:42:01
Quote from: OP
could we in the future discover molecules that were so far hidden?
Elements beyond Uranium (element 92) are increasingly unstable.
It is certain that elements well beyond element 92 are formed in the collision of neutron stars, which then seeds the Earth.

There is a theoretical possibility that some atoms with element numbers near 115 in the periodic table might be stable, forming an "island of stability".
- Scientists have conducted searches to see if they can find a few atoms of these elements in natural rocks, using mass spectrometry. So far, this search has come up empty.

However, a layer of slightly radioactive Iron-60 has been found on the sea floor; this has a half-life around 2.6 million years. This suggests that the Earth was seeded by material from a supernova sometime in the past 2 million years or so. You probably have some of these Iron-60 atoms in your body. But they work just like normal iron atoms.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_iron#Iron-60
Can the same element be linked to our cognitive skills? Could there be such a thing?
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Re: Are we really made of stardust?
« Reply #19 on: 05/07/2020 17:49:15 »
Quote from: yovav on 05/07/2020 17:43:31
so, Is there a possibility that our will pattern is also uniquely designed from molecules ?

Only in the sense that our brain is made from molecules.
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