[syhprum (OP)]

Just before Christmas I was pleased to receive a shot of the Pfizer anti covid-19 vaccine which I considered the most scientific.
I was confident that by now I would have got the second shot and be pretty sure to be immune by the end of January but all manner of obstacles seem to have got in the way , they would delay the second shot  so that more people could get the first shot now there is talk that I will never get the second shot leaving me in limbo as to what degree of immunity I might have.
Also medics have been told not to use their discretion as to what to do with any left over shots that might be available from missed appointments but to throw away the drug !!!.
Is it just red tape, Incompetence  , or is someone not making as much money out of covid-19 as they hoped

[evan_au]

As per usual, please phrase the thread title as a question...   moderator.

[alancalverd]

Sorted!

Read the manufacturer's safety- and efficacy-based Instructions For Use, particularly

5.3.14.   Write the time / date of dilution on the vial label as shown below in red. The expiry is 6 hours from the point of dilution.

 
5.3.15.   The expiry is 6 hours from the point of dilution, but the vial should still be used as soon as practically possible.

You get 5 shots from a vial. Better to chuck away 4 at the end of the day than to give someone a dud shot tomorrow. The loss rate will obviously be less in a multi-chair unit than in a single surgery.

[Bored chemist]

they would delay the second shot  so that more people could get the first shot

That's a decision they took in the face of the medical evidence, because bigger numbers are politically better.
They had the advice, so it's not that they didn't know what they were doing. If they hadn't known what they should do, that would have been incompetent.
They knew, but decided to go for short term popularity by claiming " we have vaccinate X people" where X is twice what it would be if they were honest
Whether you consider that to be corruption or not is up to you, but it looks that way to me.

[Bored chemist]

You get 5 shots from a vial. Better to chuck away 4 at the end of the day than to give someone a dud shot tomorrow.

The point is you don't give it to someone tomorrow.
You find someone who happens to be in the surgery today and vaccinate them.
Even if they came in to get their prescription for the  pill refilled, if you jab them, then that's one fewer person who can carry the virus. That's a benefit to society.

But it's not quite that simple.
How do you track her down when it's time for her second shot?
So she ends up in the same limbo that the OP's complaining about.

On the other hand. I understand that, in the early days, they were using "leftovers"  to inoculate medical (and care) staff who were in the highest exposure risk group and for whom, even partial immunity was going to be a good thing.

[alancalverd]

You find someone who happens to be in the surgery today and vaccinate them.

This works fine if you are running a 24/7 walk-in and don't need any advance paperwork.

How do you track her down when it's time for her second shot?

You need advance paperwork because "it's all done on the computer",  is subject to all sorts of confidentiality legislation, and has contraindications so simply vaccinating someone at random and putting a card in a Roladex isn't permitted.

What's the big deal anyway? Suppose you vaccinate one patient every 10 minutes for 8 hours. You will waste 0.6 of a vial, say £10 worth of vaccine, at the end of the day. The time taken to do the paperwork for one more patient will cost the NHS more than that. How many sandwiches does a baker throw away each day?

[Bored chemist]

How many sandwiches does a baker throw away each day?

Quite a lot of bakers give them away to the homeless.

Quote
How do you track her down when it's time for her second shot?
You need advance paperwork because "it's all done on the computer",  is subject to all sorts of confidentiality legislation, and has contraindications so simply vaccinating someone at random and putting a card in a Roladex isn't permitted.

And that's the real reason why they don't do it (any more- allegedly)

It's nothing to do with any risk that you might

give someone a dud shot tomorrow.

[alancalverd]

I'm sure the manufacturers - and indeed everyone involved in the distribution and dosing of the product - will be pleased to know that you have demonstrated the effective shelf life of diluted vaccine at room temperature to be at least 16 hours. All you need to do now is to convince the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency that their work was in vain, and you could end up saving as much as 1% of the COVID vaccination budget.

Better yet - if you can predilute the stuff and ship it at room temperature, you can Save the World by distributing buckets of vaccine on scheduled passenger flights or car ferries. 

Sadly, Pfizer, MHRA and everyone who has actually been involved with developing the stuff, are a bunch of ignorant fools who know nothing about vaccines but have shares in chilled transport and make huge sums of money by writing deliberately wasteful IFUs. Funny that they have missed a trick there. If they put 100 shots in a vial, you could end up throwing away 99 instead of 4 at the end of the day.   

[Bored chemist]

I'm sure the manufacturers - and indeed everyone involved in the distribution and dosing of the product - will be pleased to know that you have demonstrated the effective shelf life of diluted vaccine at room temperature to be at least 16 hours.

Straw man, unworthy of further comment.

[syhprum (OP)]

I think I would have done better to wait for the proper British invented stuff rather than foreign muck that like as not has chemicals iin it

[alancalverd]

I'm sure the manufacturers - and indeed everyone involved in the distribution and dosing of the product - will be pleased to know that you have demonstrated the effective shelf life of diluted vaccine at room temperature to be at least 16 hours.

Straw man, unworthy of further comment.

If you haven't, how can you justify extending the life of diluted vaccine beyond the manufacturer's IFU limit?

You were quick enough to criticise a would-be mass vaccinator with no possible insurance cover, even though he swore to obey the instructions on the packet. Can you carry the liability for offlabel use of an expired product? If not, it would be better not to promote it.

[Bored chemist]

how can you justify extending the life of diluted vaccine beyond the manufacturer's IFU limit?

I didn't.
That's why it was a straw man.

What I actually said should have been pretty clear.

The point is you don't give it to someone tomorrow.

My point was that, at the end of the day, you could give it to anyone who happens to be there.
But the problem with that is, as you said, the paperwork.

The problem is not
"

give someone a dud shot tomorrow.

because, at a pinch, you could walk down the street TODAY touting the jab(s) to whoever wants it. (in much the same way that bakeries  hand out the remains of the day's sandwiches- they hand them out before they go out of date- that's the whole point)

So, your stupid posts were strawmen- possibly because you had forgotten to read and understand what I wrote.

[alancalverd]

Bakers distribute their surplus before closing the shop.

In reply #5 I admitted that you could indeed use the last drop of every vial if you were running a 24/7 service, but at £10 per shot I think most GP surgeries would prefer to discard 4 shots rather than have staff miss the train home.

[Bored chemist]

Bakers distribute their surplus before closing the shop.

In reply #5 I admitted that you could indeed use the last drop of every vial if you were running a 24/7 service, but at £10 per shot I think most GP surgeries would prefer to discard 4 shots rather than have staff miss the train home.

Quite possibly.
Now, back to your earlier posts: the one  claiming that I "have demonstrated the effective shelf life of diluted vaccine at room temperature to be at least 16 hours. " and the one where you doubled down on it saying "how can you justify extending the life of diluted vaccine ".
Do you now see that they made no sense?