[Pseudoscience-is-malarkey (OP)]

If you were in charge of school lunches, or at least had considerable pull over the issue, what would serve that is healthy and within the typical tax budget?

[alancalverd]

In 1946 the statutory requirement was for a minimum of 1000 calories and 30g of fat. The UK population was never as fit before or afterwards.

The current requirement is not more than 850 calories and 20 g fat. The current generation is less fit than their parents.

Time to get back to roast lamb, cabbage and stodge with custard.

[Colin2B]

...... and stodge with custard.

Now we are back to Spotted Dick, a favourite topic of @Pseudoscience-is-malarkey

[alancalverd]

I've mentioned it before, but it's worth repeating.

A few years ago I was sent to commission a bone density scanner in an army camp. I assumed it would be in retired quarters or a surgical recovery unit, but it turned out to be a basic training establishment. I asked the MO why he needed a gadget I'd always associated with postmenopausal women. He said that since the abolition of school milk and compulsory games, teenagers had no bone strength and  many were incapable of marching across the parade ground without breaking their shins. This did not bode well for a career involving jumping out of aeroplanes, so he insisted on testing bone density before wasting public money on recruits that wouldn't survive the first year.

[syhprum]

what would it cost to provide all children with a school lunch such as I had in 1944 , not a lot I should think and it would take stigma and polotics out of it.

[Pseudoscience-is-malarkey (OP)]

The current generation is less fit than their parents.

That has been debunked. It just seems that we're fatter these days because of a much larger population. We simply see them more. Back in the day, there were low or no-fat options like we in the west have. Also, not eating all the food on your plate was taboo to most people. Food had significantly larger portions of salt and lard oils. No diet sodas, and drinking and smoking were far, far more due to less recreational opinions and less or no knowledge of the physical damage they do. And look at what the life expectancy was... And recreational exercise? Used to be unheard of.

[Bored chemist]

That has been debunked.

Where?

[alancalverd]

That has been debunked.

The British Army believes it. But what do they know about physical fitness, eh? Bunch of layabouts. Should get off their arses  and do a bit of marching and running in the fresh air, preferably with a pack and a gun. Apoplectic? Moi?

recreational exercise

used to be compulsory in schools. I remember two afternoons of rugby or crosscountry running in winter, cricket or swimming in summer, and two hours of gym every week, unless you had actually broken both legs ("You can umpire on one leg, Calverd!")  Plus voluntary early morning circuit training or swimming, and evening weight training or tennis, pretty much unsupervised. The school was closed on Sundays but we were encouraged to visit the hockey club instead.  AFAIK all physical exercise is now voluntary at secondary level and the playing fields have been sold for housing.

[Bored chemist]

used to be compulsory in schools.

Still is.

[alancalverd]

I see it recommended in the national curriculum but no mention of compulsion.

[Jolly2]

If you were in charge of school lunches, or at least had considerable pull over the issue, what would serve that is healthy and within the typical tax budget?

There was a study I saw although I cant remember its name where they gave vitamins and other supplements to children, (I believe omega fats)impressively their grades all increased.

I would suggest anything that helps the brain grow and function, so certain fats Omega 3 6 and 9 rich meals.

Anything that helps with generally bodily development. Iron rich foods would be a good start many in the west suffer from iron deficiency.

It would probably be best to devote each days meal to a different mineral or vitamin.

Some vitamins block others so its important not to take them together. Some minerals need vitamins to be absorbed properly so its important to take them together. 

Working out what to add and exclude in each meal takes some thought and research.

Simply example calcium is helped by vitamin D to be absorbed.  Proteins need added acid to help break them down so a glass of orange juice with a protein meal will help the body absorb and use the protein eaten.

[Bored chemist]

Some vitamins block others so its important not to take them together.

How?

I would suggest anything that helps the brain grow and function, so certain fats Omega 3 6 and 9 rich meals.

On the basis of one study which you don't recall properly....
Is that consistent with wanting ten years of research before using a vaccine ?

[Jolly2]

Some vitamins block others so its important not to take them together.

How?

They have the same process to enter the body, hence they interfere with each if taken together.
Calcium and magnesium are good examples your doctor will generally advise you to supliment separately arround 8 hours apart to ensure they are both absorbed.

I would suggest anything that helps the brain grow and function, so certain fats Omega 3 6 and 9 rich meals.

On the basis of one study which you don't recall properly....
Is that consistent with wanting ten years of research before using a vaccine ?

Changing the subject again.

[Jolly2]

If you were in charge of school lunches, or at least had considerable pull over the issue, what would serve that is healthy and within the typical tax budget?

There was a study I saw although I cant remember its name where they gave vitamins and other supplements to children, (I believe omega fats)impressively their grades all increased.

I would suggest anything that helps the brain grow and function, so certain fats Omega 3 6 and 9 rich meals.

Anything that helps with generally bodily development. Iron rich foods would be a good start many in the west suffer from iron deficiency.

It would probably be best to devote each days meal to a different mineral or vitamin.

Some vitamins block others so its important not to take them together. Some minerals need vitamins to be absorbed properly so its important to take them together. 

Working out what to add and exclude in each meal takes some thought and research.

Simply example calcium is helped by vitamin D to be absorbed.  Proteins need added acid to help break them down so a glass of orange juice with a protein meal will help the body absorb and use the protein eaten.

A high protein meal with a glass of orange juice with a dark chocolate desert should be a good combination.

Iron needs vitamin C to be absorbed properly.  Hence the acid in the orange juice will help absorb the protein and the vitamin C help absorb the iron in the dark chocolate.

[Bored chemist]

Calcium and magnesium

Not vitamins.

Changing the subject again.

Well, stop it.

You should look at the pH of orange juice and stomach acid.
That way you will learn that the orange won't make any difference.

[Jolly2]

Calcium and magnesium

Not vitamins.

Irrelevant to the overall point.

Changing the subject again.

Well, stop it.

I'm not the one changing the subject.

"Even after three months, we could see that the children's reading skills improved with the addition of fatty acids, compared with those who received the placebo"

https://m.nutritioninsight.com/news/Study-Says-Omega-3-Omega-6-Supplement-Improves-Reading-for-Children.html

[Bored chemist]

I'm not the one changing the subject.

You changed it from vitamins to minerals.

Irrelevant to the overall point.

The thread is essentially about "what you would do if you were in charge"
Pointing out that you don't know the difference between a vitamin and a mineral is relevant, because it shows that you don't know what you are talking about.
And thus, what you would do if you were in charge is... probably not a good idea.

Similarly, if you think a few months trial is good enough for this, but not for a vaccine which we need as soon as possible, then you clearly don't understand the issues in science.

People might want to consider that when they rea your posts.

[Jolly2]

I'm not the one changing the subject.

You changed it from vitamins to minerals.

No I didn't the point was certain vitamins and minerals should be taken together or separately to assist the body. And they should you are as always not adding to the discussion and just trolling.

Irrelevant to the overall point.

The thread is essentially about "what you would do if you were in charge"
Pointing out that you don't know the difference between a vitamin and a mineral is relevant, because it shows that you don't know what you are talking about.

 

And thus, what you would do if you were in charge is... probably not a good idea.

Similarly, if you think a few months trial is good enough for this, but not for a vaccine which we need as soon as possible, then you clearly don't understand the issues in science.

This is a thread to discuss school meals if you wanted to carry on the discussion about the vaccine maybe you shouldn't have demanded it be closed.

I think the vast majority of the population agree that a rushed experimental treatment is not a good idea.

And unnecessary as we now have a traditional vaccine produced by China,  China a country that had produced a vaccine for SARS cov1 over 17 years ago.  Not only has China got  more experience with SARS then the west they now have a functioning inactivated virus vaccine that works and is authorised to use.

I would prefer a nasal spray vaccine as it should help the body produce mucosal antibodies better and thus give a better protection.

Both options are better then the experimental treatment currently being used by the west. That had 3 months for its phase one trail. All good and well taking about ongoing reporting side effects when everyone is intended to be vaccinated within a year. The current program is reckless.

People might want to consider that when they rea your posts.

They can rea all they want.

Still this is a thread to discuss nutrition. You want to continue going on about the vaccine, then demand the thread be reopened. And we can. otherwise stop trolling in this thread about unrelated topics.

[Bored chemist]

Pointing out that you do not understand science, and that you are inconsistent about what constitutes a proper study (and remember, it was you who raised that here; you said "There was a study I saw although I cant remember its name")  is important because it gives people the information they need to decide on whether to accept what you post.

[alancalverd]

I've just finished reading "Eggs or Anarchy", the story of Lord Woolton's wartime work at the Ministry of Food, which dealt with essential nutrition and the problems of supply and control. Strangely, whilst the book gives a good insight into the interface between science, business and politics, it didn't mention the crucial work of Robert McCance and Elsie Widdowson in determining the importance of infant nutrition, dietary supplementation with minerals and vitamins, and optimum techniques of industrial cooking, all of which fed into MoF policy and provided that extraordinary boost to the health of the nation when most of Europe was starving.

So if I suddenly found myself in charge of school dinners, I'd take myself to the Elsie Widdowson Laboratory and spend some time in the library,  then study some of Alexis Soyer's work on military food.

I'm sure Elfin Safety would have a conniption but the best morning's teaching I ever did was to get a class of primary school kids to make lunch for the rest of the school. Maybe include proper kitchen work in the curriculum: "Food tech" seems to be about designing pizza boxes, not planning and process control. My chef son started with A level physics and chemistry before catering school. Worth considering the French attitude to school meals: lunch is indeed part of the curriculum - the practical aspect of human biology and French culture.