Miracles and Science - The How and the What

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Offline Ashtari

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Miracles and Science - The How and the What
« on: 08/06/2007 10:22:58 »
So..... thinkers of this world

Let's see your analytical minds ticking and whirring again... i know you can do it because I have seen what you are talking about on the other fairly seriously scientific posts.

The good news is that one does not need to be a Rocket scientist to work the answer to this question:

How did Jesus turn the 5 loaves and 3 Fish (or was it more than that?  [???])  into enough food to feed the multitudes at the lake?  BTW, they had 5 baskets of leftover scraps....   [^]

Clue:  something to do with computers.


 [;D]
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paul.fr

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« Reply #1 on: 08/06/2007 10:30:01 »


Clue:  something to do with computers.


Ebay?

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Offline Ashtari

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« Reply #2 on: 08/06/2007 13:48:25 »
Paul.fr...  [V]

The question was:

How did Jesus turn the 5 loaves and 3 Fish (or was it more than that?  )  into enough food to feed the multitudes at the lake?   and still have 5 baskets of leftover scraps.... 

Please try again.


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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #3 on: 08/06/2007 14:11:29 »
Paul.fr...  [V]

The question was:

How did Jesus turn the 5 loaves and 3 Fish (or was it more than that?  )  into enough food to feed the multitudes at the lake?   and still have 5 baskets of leftover scraps.... 

Please try again.


Ashtari

They were bloody big fish (whale sharks?) & loaves the size of belgium. QED  [:D]
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Offline Batroost

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« Reply #4 on: 08/06/2007 16:16:55 »
Either:

He didn't. It's a Myth.

Or:

Being divine he was outside Science.

You choose....
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #5 on: 08/06/2007 17:41:23 »
Either:

He didn't. It's a Myth.

Or:

Being divine he was outside Science.

You choose....

I prefer my explanation  [;D]
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paul.fr

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« Reply #6 on: 08/06/2007 21:54:18 »
Paul.fr...  [V]

The question was:

How did Jesus turn the 5 loaves and 3 Fish (or was it more than that?  )  into enough food to feed the multitudes at the lake?   and still have 5 baskets of leftover scraps.... 

Please try again.


Ashtari

you did say it was something to do with computers, so i just guessed he got more of Ebay. so i was wrong! let's think...

#1 he does/did/never will exist so the question is pointless
#2 he did exist , and it was a trick...see these 3 loaves, well just turn around for a minute...hay presto
#3 see those clouds, they are realy alien spacecraft flying down with an airdrop of loaves and fish.

edit:

#4 he did not use ebay because he had not registered for a paypal account. so maybe he ordered them from amazon?

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Offline that mad man

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« Reply #7 on: 08/06/2007 23:11:21 »
The man was a hypnotist and hypnotised everybody.

While they were under his spell he told them they had just eaten a big meal and would not feel hungry when they woke. Also, while they were under his spell he ripped the 5 loaves and the fish up and scattered them in the 5 baskets to complete the illusion.

But what is little known is that the multitude were charged for the meal and their complaints went unheard.

Hence the phrase "there's no such thing as a free lunch"


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Offline rosy

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« Reply #8 on: 08/06/2007 23:21:47 »
Quote
Either:

He didn't. It's a Myth.

Or:

Being divine he was outside Science.

You choose....
Either of the above, or the he-was-a-human-and-a-great-teacher theory:

He was a real human being, something really did happen, but what happened was actually that lots more people had dinner with them than were letting on so what he actually did was give them all the idea that everyone was going to share so that they all got what they had with them and passed it round.

To be honest that seems to me like a rather more potentially useful lesson for his followers than the "The Lord will provide" message that comes across from the normal biblical version (given that in this world at least he quite manifestly doesn't and the evidence for any other world rather fails in my view to stack up)

I have no real preference for any of the three versions...but the third looks more like something to live life by than the second...

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Offline DammitDewd

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« Reply #9 on: 12/06/2007 22:32:24 »

Ashtari, I know how he did it. He didn't. He simply didn't do it.

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Offline Ashtari

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« Reply #10 on: 22/06/2007 14:27:44 »
Hi dudes

Well, you see, it's like this:

He (Jesus) called his buddies up in the airborne unit (spaceship) and they scanned the loaves and fish into their state of the art  [8D] computers.  Believe you me the state of art in those days was a shambles....

Anyway,... they scanned the consumables into the computer and then pressed buttons or spoke into the computer and said 'multiply by x amount of thousands to allow each person to have one fish and one loaf of fresh bread'

and the computer went whirrrrrr whirrrrrr and then the baskets of bread and baskets of fish came rolling off the conveyor belt to be teleported down to the lake of Galilee below, and a good time was had by all I believe.

The same happened with the wine etc etc.  [::)]

See, easy peezy.
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Offline ukmicky

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« Reply #11 on: 22/06/2007 14:40:02 »
I am somewhat disappointed in that answer , i was hoping for something a little more sort of clever or imaginative.


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paul.fr

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« Reply #12 on: 22/06/2007 14:44:08 »
Assuming your answer is correct, why was there some left over? Could jesus not count, or did some still go hungry!

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Offline Ashtari

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« Reply #13 on: 25/06/2007 10:01:36 »
Well, Firstly, it wasn't Jesus' fault because the ship crew asked "How many people do you want to feed?" and so Jesus asked the disciples to do a head count and they counted the children as adults..... and as you know little bodies do not need huge portions of anything at all  [::)]  Surely you could work this one out for yourselves!  [::)] [:o]

And then, of course those Pleiadians are such cuul duuds, they LOVE to cater, so they gave more, rather than too little, or just enough.   [:o]

When you cater, do you cater for exactly the amount of people coming to dinner???? [???] [???] [???]

I'm really surprised you asked!!!! [:-'(]



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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #14 on: 25/06/2007 20:08:54 »
If I cater, I try to provide more food than I think people will need. There are 2 reasons for this
1 I don't really know in advance how much they will eat and
2 I don't want to have to nip to the supermarket half way through a party.
If I were some Godlike ET with a replicator neither of those would apply so I could produce exactly enough food.
Aha! but that would be a dead giveaway wouldn't it- people would look round afterwards and say "Oh look- no leftovers, that must have taken Godlike planning" and would realise that there must really be a God. Of course God doesn't prove his own existence (I'm not sure why not). So He couldn't get the quantities exactly right.
Oh, Hang on- any sort of miracle like this is take as proof of God's existence even if there's stuff left over.
Bother!
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Offline Ashtari

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« Reply #15 on: 26/06/2007 09:53:42 »
Nah... god doesn't mind being 'believed' in or understood... BUT.. who is to say, until you actually meet god and travel to his dimension, what sort of a person God was?

Let us assume that He was a scientist and a genetic researcher at that, with fairly advanced computer skills and endless technology at hand because HIS civilization is/was already 'streets' ahead of our technology (now take another look at that, because if this God person was the person I am suggesting, he would be a VERY busy dude, a VERY sortof nutty professor type who's domestic help had the day off that day, so he had to ask his crew on board the flagship of this research station Earth (RSE) to go check what the downloaded prophets (Jesus was one of them) were in the need of that day.  And that young Resource Manager was BIG on impressing the crowds with the Hi-Tech equipment they had just unpacked from the Pleiades, say..... and was busy demonstrating to the rest of the crew in that Resource Department how the new teleport cum multiplication/duplication technology works and lost count of how many loaves and fish were being produced....  [;)] -

This is an immense probability... Don't you agree?

BUT... was that GOD?  or just one of his High Priests?  Hmmm Because God is assumed to be the Primal Force of LOVE and the initiation of all quantum sciences etc. A bit like the Mutine Flash [:X] and then again... is that truely who God is?

But let's keep it simple and take one step back into the dimensional realms and actuality of 'Where did THIS planet come from? and then when we find that out about and meet the folk from the 'We made earth and this universe' Team (MEATUT)- we can ask them who they think God is? Yes?

However, I still am adament that what I told you a couple of days ago is the dinkum truth and the way it went.

BTW.  If you only knew how beautiful these Pleiadians are to look at.... Phew!

Anyway.....

Enjoy your day.


Ashtari
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paul.fr

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« Reply #16 on: 26/06/2007 10:15:28 »
Hi dudes

Well, you see, it's like this:

He (Jesus) called his buddies up in the airborne unit (spaceship) and they scanned the loaves and fish into their state of the art  [8D] computers.  Believe you me the state of art in those days was a shambles....




Let us assume that He was a scientist and a genetic researcher at that, with fairly advanced computer skills and endless technology at hand because HIS civilization is/was already 'streets' ahead of our technology

So was his technology "a shambles" or "streets ahead of our technology"?

Well, Firstly, it wasn't Jesus' fault because the ship crew asked "How many people do you want to feed?" and so Jesus asked the disciples to do a head count and they counted the children as adults..... and as you know little bodies do not need huge portions of anything at all

Surely if they did a head count, the children would be smaller than the adults and at least some of them would have been missed out. Now, if you had said there was five baskets left over to account for this then maybe....but you never, so why the discrepancy?

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Offline Ashtari

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« Reply #17 on: 27/06/2007 09:33:31 »
Paul.fr

Clarity presented:

You see, it was like this:
The state of the art in the biblical days (Old Testament to be exact), was a shambles... no one actually knew whether they had a's or e's  and almost no one even had an abacus!, (yes, it really was that bad) etc... but the ETs technology was NOT in a shambles..... it was streets in which case, to be exact, Highways above all the rest of planet earth at that time... and I am assuming that it currently STILL is way, way, way ahead of what we currently have, eventhough we are rapidly catching up with them  [^]

About the baskets:
This is the unpredictable, yet orderly condition of life on earth...  Be ready in season and out of season , the Lord told us (remember?) - and element of excitement [;)]
Would you maybe like to caculate mathematically EXACTLY how many baskets of food there were supposed to be left over?  [:o)]

Thanks
 [:o] [:D]

Ashtari
« Last Edit: 27/06/2007 10:58:17 by Ashtari »
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paul.fr

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« Reply #18 on: 27/06/2007 09:52:16 »
So "he" had state of the art computers but his earthly followers were stuck with some sort of zx80, hardly makes good sense...does it?

Do i realy need to calculate the exact number of baskets, when we "know" that there was 5?

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Offline Ashtari

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« Reply #19 on: 27/06/2007 11:04:16 »
No, you see, this was a Microsoft ploy to see whether the 'homins' would come up with any MORE ADVANCED ideas than the 'God' team when they have their backs to the wall  [:P] [;)]  So He gave them the abacus and said 'develop'.  (Not a man of many words this 'Godly Highpriest') - but I assume tha this was/is to allow the 'technology development team' here on earth to not be 'pre-empted nor coaxed into any particular direction - if you get what I mean  [;)]

 [;)] [;)]  Never a truer word than spoken in jest  [^]

About the baskets - I was not querying that - remember  [8D]

Have a lovely day

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #20 on: 27/06/2007 11:14:20 »
The idea that "So was his technology "a shambles" or "streets ahead of our technology"?
indicates a contradiction is questionable.
Compared to pre- industrial times our technology is streets ahead. It's still a shambles- look how often it fails.
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Offline Ashtari

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« Reply #21 on: 28/06/2007 15:07:00 »
Bored Chemist

Er.... I get you did not understand the question NOR the answer thereto.  However, thanyou for your interest in this subject.

Be well and I wish you much interest and excitement in the future.  Being bored is not healthy.

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Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #22 on: 29/06/2007 23:38:10 »
Rosy is right.  The true answer is simple, requires no divine intervention and tells you a lot more about Christian virtues than any miracle. Around that time most people headed off on a longish journey would carry a small stash of food and water with them, but in the crowd most people would keep this to themselves because there wasn't all that much and they might need it later. However once the young lad came forward with his small offering of all the food he had and was prepared to share it people started to share their food and once they'd all shared out the food they had there was plenty for a meal for everyone and some left over.
« Last Edit: 29/06/2007 23:40:59 by Soul Surfer »
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Heronumber0

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« Reply #23 on: 18/07/2007 23:31:15 »
Ashtari, correct me if I am wrong but quantum science tells us that reality is composed of multiple parallel universes which collapse into one when observed.  If that is true then something called reality is constructed by a 'conscious' being. However, there is no reason why our reality cannot be presented by 'ANOTHER BEING' and that we are souls/spirits who are living out life in a virtual reality and then unlink from this virtual world at death. 

If this reality is constructed by God, then there is no reason why strange, anomalous, improbable events can occur because the reality is altered for 'special' people such as prophets and their followers.  Apart from this miracles like people surviving drop of 20,000 feet without a parachute are mere accidents.  What do you think?

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Offline Barnacle

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« Reply #24 on: 04/08/2007 13:44:38 »
   Why bother messing around with loaves and fishes if youve got miraculous powers? He could snap his fingers and
   hey presto... food is not needed anymore... 

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Offline syhprum

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« Reply #25 on: 05/08/2007 09:46:01 »
Surely the point is why did the writers of the new testament feel it appropriate to include these rather ridiculous miracle stories in their account of the life of Jesus.
Were they writing for the gullible who would really believe these things or was it that some of the other things ascribed to him were so strange that (Virgin birth, surviving Crucifixion, physical accession etc) that he had to be depicted as as some strange wizard instead of a run of mill Jewish reformist preacher.   
« Last Edit: 05/08/2007 10:08:14 by syhprum »
syhprum

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Offline johnbrandy

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« Reply #26 on: 20/08/2007 21:40:31 »
The author, Carlo Suares, wrote a play entitled, "The Passion of Judas." I read this play about forty years ago and do not recall most of the details. One thing that sticks out in my memory  was a discussion about miracles. There were several spectacular examples  of miracles cited from the bible. One of the characters in the play tiring of this subject stated, "Miracle, that is a word that has no meaning. If a thing is made, it is because there is a means by which to make it. So if I have to cry miracle every time I do not understand how a thing is made, than I must cry miracle when I look at a drop of water, or a speck of dust." This is an approximate quotation that captures the spirit of the statement. In essences, we call "things" miracles because we do not understand the means by which they are made. If we were privy to such means, they would not be view as miracles. I offer this for your consideration. Thank you.
« Last Edit: 22/08/2007 17:40:52 by johnbrandy »

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Offline ukmicky

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« Reply #27 on: 21/08/2007 04:00:16 »
lord tawny stapleford

Nice Name.

LORD Beaver is he a friend of yours.

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Offline cheryl j

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« Reply #28 on: 16/11/2011 19:11:30 »
I always figured that when people saw that Jesus was willing to share everything he had with so many, some of the cheap assholes in the crowd probably felt embarassed and went home and brought back some more fish and bread. Which is almost like a miracle.
« Last Edit: 16/11/2011 19:15:56 by cheryl j »

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Offline yor_on

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« Reply #29 on: 03/12/2011 05:09:57 »
It's a quite fishy subject this.
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Offline CliffordK

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« Reply #30 on: 03/12/2011 09:07:05 »
Well...  some of the "Miracles" are easy enough to explain.

Joseph, of course, was Mary's boyfriend at the time she got pregnant.

There have many young girls who have refused to admit to their parents how they got pregnant...  or in some cases, refused to even tell their supposed boyfriends.

If only they had paternity tests 2000 years ago, I'm doubtful they would have had to ask for a DNA sample from GOD!