[Ylide (OP)]

Well, I just took the MCAT (Medical College Aptitude Test) this weekend.  Everyone wish me luck on my scoring.  It gets to hang around my neck like an albatross for 60 days while they score it.  [V]

I wouldn't wish that test on my worst enemy.  Do they have an equivalent test for admission to medical school in the UK?  Or anywhere else for that matter?



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[cuso4]

Jay, are planning on doing a medical degree?

Here in the UK, there is a exam called BMAT (don't know what it stands for). Some universities ask prospective undergraduates to take this exam and may make offers depending on the result.

Angel

[tweener]

Good luck Jay!  

I always try to avoid big tests like that.  I hate tests.

----
John - The Eternal Pessimist.

[MayoFlyFarmer]

quote:Originally posted by cuso4

Jay, are planning on doing a medical degree?

Here in the UK, there is a exam called BMAT (don't know what it stands for). Some universities ask prospective undergraduates to take this exam and may make offers depending on the result.

Angel

we have other tests like that in the US the one Jay is refering to is for prospective medical school applicants (and a few other related fields) comming OUt of their undergard not going into their undergard (those would likely be the ACT or SAT).

Good luck on the scoring Jay!  The girl that i share an office with just took hers on saturday too....  I can't believe the amount of studying she put in for taht thing, and when I asked her how it went she sounded skeptical.... crazy!  If there's ever a "Dr." in from of my name its definately going to be a PhD not an MD (not that that is an easy road either, but at least you only have to take the GRE's not an MCAT!)

We don't want the loonies taking over!

[Donnah]

Good luck Jason.

[bezoar]

Good luck Jay.  With your good mind, I'm sure you did great.

[Ylide (OP)]

>Jay, are planning on doing a medical degree?
>
>Angel

Yes, I'm planning on entering a combination M.D./Ph.D. program.  It's a degree funded by one of our government organizations (The National Institute of Health, or NIH)  that prepares you for high level medical research.  I start applying not long after I get my scores back.  It's 7-9 years of school....4 years of medical school, 2 years of graduate classes, and 305 years of Ph.D. dissertation research.  It's all funded so I would pay no tuition and collect a small stipend as well.  When all is said and done, you walk out of it with both degrees and a great education for medical research.  

They're very selective, and I haven't figured out a backup plan if I don't get in.  I'm debating straight-out medical school (which is not cheap but would provide a rewarding well-paying career afterwards) or a Ph.D. in pathology or toxicology which would probably be free if I get accepted and teach or do research for the department but might not give me the research oppurtunities I'm looking for.





[]

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[cuso4]

Good luck Jay !!!!!

Angel

[MayoFlyFarmer]

wow, thats a tough program 9but you're right that its worth it!)  I work with one of our phd/md students here, he's a really nice guy and really smart, but I feel sorry for him knowing how much school he has left.. You should apply here!  Mayo rocks!
I'm confused as to why you tink you wouild have better research oppertunities as an MD than a PhD???  While I now know that there are plenty of oppertunities for research for MDs (which I didn't used to believe to be true)  I still think you can do anything and more (in terms of reearch) with a PhD vs. an MD degree.  Just no oppertunity to do clinical practice.

A submarine is NOT a cargo ship!

[Ylide (OP)]

Actually, the Mayo Clinic is one of my choices when I apply.  I'm applying to, in this order of preference:

University of Colorado Health Sciences Center
University of Rochester (NY, not Minnesota)
Oregon Health Sciences University
The Mayo Clinic
University of New Mexico (Albequerque)
Cornell University

Hopefully I'll get into one of them.  I meant that the MD might not have as good research oppurtunities as the PhD...my grammar just wasn't very clear there.  [|)]

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[chris]

quote:Originally posted by cannabinoid
and 305 years of Ph.D. dissertation research.

Crikey - that's a long PhD - most people (like me) get their's in about 3 years []

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[Ylide (OP)]

In the US, 5 years is standard for a Ph.D program.  2 years of course work, then 3 years of dissertation research.  Generally, they give you comprehensive exams after the 2 years of course work and if you pass, you get to go on and do your dissertation, and if you fail you leave school with a Master's degree.  Medical school is typically 4 years, not counting any specialist training, 2 years of course work, 2 years of clinical rotations.   If you want to be a specialist (internal medicine, neurology, what-have-you) you're looking at another 2-4 years of school and clinical training.





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[MayoFlyFarmer]

chris, I didn't realize you had a PhD??? i thought you were an MD.  Do you have both as well.  
I agree with Jay that (in the states) 3 yrs is WAY short for a PhD most people I know take 4-6.  i know some who have taken up to 8 (bad luck on projects, tough review commitee's etc.) but three would be amazing.

A submarine is NOT a cargo ship!

[chris]

I agree that 3 years is not very long for a PhD. Indeed most people overrun by a year anyway. For this reason many of the funding bodies are moving towards a 4 year PhD programme in which students spend the first year migrating through various labs acquiring a panoply of laboratory techniques and exposure to various disciplines. The aim is to help people in their choice of project and enable them to hit the ground running once they start research proper.

That said, I think that it is unreasonable to lengthen the PhD much more without addressing the issue of funding. Science is already seriously underfunded and, partly as a result, under-subscribed. Who would choose science, poor pay, no long term guarantee of employment and frequent moves when the corporate sector pays you twice as much ?

If students face an even longer period of debt with no perceived reward then we can only expect the trend in declining numbers of scientists to continue.

In relation to myself, yes, I have an MB and a PhD. I did my PhD at the same time as my medical degree. (In the UK an MD is a research qualification that some doctors do in place of a PhD).

I did 3 years of preclinical medicine (which included an extra degree in Neuroscience), then a year of pure clinical training, 3 years of PhD with some clinical each week, then a further full year of clinical training. Then they unleashed me on the world as a Dr Dr. I'm now back in Cambridge as Clinical Lecturer in Virology meaning that I spend (in theory) half my time doing research, and the other half of the time on my medical commitments.

That said I'm currently taking 6 months off to visit Australia where I am working at the ABC Science Unit at Radio National - http://www.abc.net.au/rn - contributing to the science show, the health report and ABC Radio National Breakfast.

Chris

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
 - Groucho Marx

[Donnah]

Whew!  Hats off to you Chris, that was a tough row to hoe.  You must have had no life except for studying during those years.  It helps that you are a brainiac, but you had to do the work.  Kudos.

[roadrunnerrita]

I just finished my MCAT two weeks ago, and I am looking into applying. Anybody have good reccommendations for essays?

[Ylide (OP)]

As in essays for medical school applications?  I don't know, I haven't really put thought into what I'd write about.

Welcome to the forums, btw.  Where are you thinking about applying?

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[roadrunnerrita]

Thanks Cannabinoid!

I'm not sure where I'll be applying. I've done this once before, and I got wait listed but never accepted off of the lists I was on. I'll most likely apply to California schools, since I am a resident now (whoo-hoo!), and they are all good and cheap. I will probably apply to the other schools I was wait listed at again, as well as a few others that I missed the first time. Right now I am trying to decide if I should apply this year or wait another year to enhance my resume. I'm  quite different than I was before, but I still think I could do a few more things to make myself better, like do more volunteer work, update and publish the research I did two summers ago, and take a few more college classes (I could fit in 2-3 while working) to show them that I am serious about going to medical school.

[dalya]

Jay:

I was on the Immunology Ph.D program at UCHSC.  Colorado ROCKSSSSSSSSS!!!  That said, I was just back in Denver a couple of months ago for the first time in 3 years and it has gone a bit weird what with the recession and all.  They have a good MD PhD program there, but the best reason to go is for the mountains and because it is ever so slightly more chilled out than many other universities.  Which PhD department do you think you would go into?  I would love to give you the real scoop on things (ie tongue-lash some old nemeses)

[Ylide (OP)]

Dalya,

Wow, it's great to know someone else who has gone to one of the schools I'm considering.  I'm looking into the Experimental Pathology department as my Ph.D. program.  I have an internship with them for 9 weeks this summer so that will give me some indication as to how I feel about that field.  Glad to hear the school is good, though.  

How do you like immunology?  I'm getting more and more interested in autoimmune disorders lately, I'd like to hear about some upcoming research in the area.  That's also where I'll probably focus my dissertation work, even though the Path. department at the HSC tends towards cancer research.  

Tell me some more about the faculty you know from either department.



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