Varicose Veins & Oedema Study Inclined Bed Therapy IBT Alternative to Surgery

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Hi Alun thank you for your feedback, which put a smile on my face for days. It is a breath of fresh air when people like yourself benefit from this discovery and have the decency to return to let us all know how your everyday health problems are relieved. Northerners by nature have to tell it how it is. And I appreciate your integrity and accuracy.
You are not wrong about people not wanting to listen and this accounts for around 95% of the population who place their trust with health matters firmly in the hands of doctors and nurses, and I have no problem with this. My interest is in finding the 5% who want to avoid surgery and itís inherent failure rates and risks of infection and circulatory failure and who are willing to give this simple free common sense approach to improving their varicose veins and oedema from the comfort of their own home.

5532 views so far. How many people have thought to themselves this is too simple it canít possibly be of any use?

How many people have thought this is interesting and have not bothered to try it?

How many people are trying it and have not yet provided us with any feedback good or bad?

(If you decide to try this method please donít become a member of the grab it and scarper brigade and do come back and let us know how you find IBT has worked or not worked for you)

How many people with varicose veins or oedema who are not trying this method have noticed spontaneous recovery from oedema and swollen veins as you, Karen, Old Dragon, Old Biker, Penny and Squirrel have shown us?

Andrew
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Offline OldDragon

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Andrew, I'm keeping a close eye on the haemorrhoids/bleeding aspect, and have not actually needed to take my aspirins - nor would, in the circumstances. I've had this problem for years, and often a lot worse, but with the chemo going on, am keeping a very close eye on the situation. It seems that my IBS has been kicked off and is proving difficult to get back under control with diet at present. This is what's aggravating the piles. Normally, I would expect it to be considerably worse than it is in reality. The bleeding is stopping fairly quickly, and I have ointment prescribed to deal with it too. Just using rather a lot of it right now! [;)]

My neighbours here aren't likely to respond with the desired digi images of my legs, sorry. (Not people I'd ask, tbh.) Bear with me, and when it is meant to be, you'll get your updated pics. I'm in no position right now to go camera chasing, and have even had to get hold of my son to see to the stock tonight.

As for the film script - if that's all I can do whilst sitting on my sore posterior, so be it! When that gets too much, I shall away to my inclined bed and hibernate for a while! [;D]
« Last Edit: 09/08/2008 17:49:03 by OldDragon »
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Offline alun006

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Hi again Andrew

Forgot to mention that i had a muscle pain that was causing me concern in the 4 - 5 week of this experiment.

I thought this would be a issue in the start, but was suffering in the 4th week and was confused with the way the muscle especially on the thigh was like i had been for a long walk everyday.

However, i thought my posture was very good. but after my wife had bought me a new top with pockets on the front that i put on when this muscle pain was bothering me in this period of ibt.

Without thinking i placed my hands in the pockets (which made me change my posture slightly) when i was looking round a shop that day, and immediate relif was gained by doing this.

My observation is that i was so concerned about the initial pain that was coming from that area, that i changed my posture when walking etc as a protective way of ovoiding using that area as much (really causing more of a problem in that area).

A bit like when you have a bad shoulder, and you pull another because you are compensating for the area that is a problem.

Anyway i rectified this by positioning myself better when walking, and also added the head of my inclined bed to the bottom rather than the top, to stop my leg hanging to much of the end of the bed.

Have you had any reports similar to this one at all ?
alun

« Last Edit: 10/08/2008 13:31:50 by alun006 »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Its normal to experience some muscle aches. Muscles become denser and stronger on IBT responding to exercise of any kind. My wife and I first noticed this strange phenomenon and realised after a few months that it was muscles firming up, yet we were not making a concerted effort to do this except for tilting our bed.

Your observations reminded me of this and also reminded me of a girl with cerebral palsy in Kent who had not walked until the age of 12 when her parents tilted her bed. This young girl had virtually no normal looking muscle on her legs due to the lack of movement and pressure changes we take for grated when we walk. She used callipers daytime and night time to keep her legs straight. After around 4 months of IBT Her mother confirmed that the girls leg muscles had been growing and becoming very strong, yet she was not exercising at this point. Lots more happened to this girl and one day we will have a separate study for children cerebral palsy to see if everything that happened to this little girl was a spontaneous remission from cerebral palsy or whether IBT was responsible for her getting out of a wheelchair and walking up stairs at school, much to the amazement of teachers, pupils and most of all her parents.

Ok this can be labelled as conjecture and anecdotal but we have to start somewhere and we always start with anecdotal evidence. This is the way that research develops into a full study!

There have been many more reports of muscular aches around the 4 week period. Spinal cord injury being another example where muscles firm up using IBT even though there is little exercise taking place. Another interesting observation is that muscle spasm in Spinal Cord Injury where the muscles are permanently flexed relax and become supple. But again merely anecdotal evidence even though there has been a large number of people reporting the same things.

Your correction to you loading one side of your body makes sense also. IBT helps us maintain a more upright posture, stretching the spine and elongating the body altering our gradual shrinkage over the years. You may find that the aches are something to do with you adjusting your posture also.

RE: using a foot board at the bottom of the bed.

Not advisable Alun as having a constant pressure on the base of the foot can cause circulation in the whole body to become compromised and could lead eventually to tissue breakdown so it may be better to wrap a duvet around your mattress to provide additional padding and friction to eliminate the movement down the bed.

We eventually went for a memory foam mattress that prevents slipping down the bed and provides additional comfort and support using IBT. Not expensive either we got ours a King Size from Makro for £200 a few years back.

Andrew






Andrew K Fletcher
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline alun006

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Andrew

Please can i ask if you use the memory foam matress as a additional matress, or as a replacement.

Thankyou for the advice on the headboard, i will take it of as you have suggested. It was a bit restrictive anyway, was just looking for a solution to the muscle ache but now it has been explained i will know how to deal with it now. [:)]

Thanks again alun

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Alun you can use a mattress cover these are much cheeper. We had a replacement mattress
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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From another post relating to psoriasis recovery on an American Forum.

Bed styles in ancient Egypt remained very much the same for over 2000 years. They are among the most intriguing of furniture items because of their structure. Many were slanted down at an incline from the headboard. A footboard ensured that the sleeper would not slip off in the middle of the night. Furniture makers also constructed side rails on many beds. Writes Sibal, "Ö.almost all beds featured legs in the form of animal legs, ranging from heavy bullís legs to gazelle-like forms with hooves, and the feline type with paw and claw, frequently identified as  lionís legs." The mattress was usually made of wooden slats, plaited string, or reeds, which then held woolen cushions or some other soft material. Sheets were made of linen.

Then there is the question of the headrest. Perhaps not everyone used these as pillows, but some physiologists have pointed out the ergonomic benefits on the spine of sleeping with the head resting in this position.
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline OldDragon

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Well, I finally managed to get a night's RESTORATIVE sleep again and at last, after kicking my back off into spasms again last Wednesday and yet another bout of my long term sleep (or rather lack of it) disorder that those spasms bring on!

That sleep was achieved by sitting up on my sofa bed and with my back against the borrowed heated/vibrating back pad, and with my legs in the lowered, IBT position. (I'd not been to bed/slept  properly in a week!)

Anyone doubting the science behind IBT might be interested to learn that I measured my calves prior to sleeping - the left was 43 cms and the right, where I have the phlebitis, was 44.5 cms. By morning, the left measured 40 cms and the right was down to 40.5 cms! The inflammation in the tissues affected by the phlebitis was much reduced and less painful, also normal coloured instead of looking red and angry! There is still some hardness to the touch in the affected vein itself, but the whole area is nothing like as painful as it has been, and that only to the touch. I also FEEL refreshed!

Wow!  [;D]
« Last Edit: 20/08/2008 13:28:42 by OldDragon »
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Offline alun006

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Hi Old Dragon

Nice to hear that you have managed to get some sleep, lack of sleep in itself is horrible before even considering the problems you are having to deal with yourself.

I am glad the i.b.t is giving you some relief, i myself have had great results with i.b.t, not comparing my problems with yours, but i am so glad i had a open mind. and listened to whot andrew had to say and give it ago 2 months ago.

My legs feel great, i have had to take pain killers today for a knee pain attack, but considering i have not had a attack in 2 weeks, and in all 2 months has only given me 7 times in all when i have had to use painkillers.

I would normally predict at least 3 times or more a week at this time of year, considering it has been raining and the hay fever season has been here for many weeks.  this is unbelievable.

Not to mention the varicose vein improvement. ( i am writing this thread with my shorts on, happy days.)

Hope you get well soon, old dragon.
alun [;)]

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Offline OldDragon

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Thanks, Alun - I also hope that I 'get well soon' too - but having spent many a year aiming to do that, fear that my various afflictions may be with me to the grave.  [;)] Have I ever mentioned to you how, at Christmas time, I am not adverse to sending out more than a few 'Get Well Soon' cards in place of the more conventional types? This, alas, is devilment, I admit, and hardly a sign of me getting well at all!

I have, early this night, spent sometime chatting with a very old pal, currently staying with Mike, and while he shares some of his tales of the road to assist with Bed Blockers. Also, because he is a 'man of the road' I wondered how he was finding it, sleeping on an inclined bed whilst with Mike.

I don't know what medical conditions this fellow might have, but he most certainly looks very fit and healthy for his age - which I guess must now be well into his 70s.

Now, this fellow has a very luxuriant beard and a mane of white hair, and he told me that on more than one occasion when he has been busking, children have approached him and asked him if he is God?

"Is that really who I look like to you?" he'd ask them.

"Yes, they would reply."

One day a child replied - "Well, you look like more like a Smurf to me."

My old friend was most amused by that - especially because, for many years, that is the name he has always used - Smurf.  [:D]

Of course, that story had me in hoots of laughter, so, alas, I am not yet fully in control of either the back problem/spasms, or my ability to deal with the sleep disorder!

One thing that Smurf did remark to me was that, since spending a few nights on an inclined bed, he has observed some remarkable changes in his own system.

Firstly, his feet are now warmer; secondly, that his legs appear to have stopped aching as they usually do when the weather is cold and wet; and, last but not least, he is er... Well, shall we just say that he's been affected by that which appears to be afflicting some of the male members of the writing team, as well as several of the fellow inhabitants of The Risings Residential Care Home!  [;D]

 
« Last Edit: 21/08/2008 06:02:49 by OldDragon »
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Alun Alison and all the members of the TRPD circle of friends.

Your support is unprecedented! In the 14 years I have been battling to make this discovery become accepted as a scientific truth in its own right, I have not had the luxury of people as dedicated to the cause as you guys.

The Comedy film being written, which is fascinating and although complicated for someone who has never been involved in writing a script for a film, Alison is easing the process for those who might want to help in its evolution onto the big screen.

Having never considered a comedy, there is a logic in this approach that has escaped me. No barriers of cynicism and contempt can counter a British sense of humour and we do not need the stupid controls and bureaucratic idiotic bull that has been a barrier against progressing this into mainstream for so long. Far from it the comedy aspects of the film remove all barriers in one clean sweep and leave us with a blank canvas to amuse an audience while at the same time showing how this simple yet powerful therapy has transformed the health of those that who have no other motive than to improve the outcome of their often poor prognosis.

The film (working title: The Risings) stands erect as a title for this amusing romp because another beneficial effect of IBT is an increase in libido and a return of erectility to improve sexual activity even in people who have been labelled by society as being way past their sell by dates. I have also been informed that pain associated with intercourse and following intercourse in males can be excruciatingly troublesome. This problem in one case has also been resolved.

This is where the fun begins in the aptly named Risings Nursing Home. And the advice from the cinema management on the poster for this film is for people to bring their own incontinence pads to save the seats from becoming sodden with urine from agonising laughter.

It takes a touch of genius to go in the opposite direction and Alison who is dealing with Chemo therapy and breast cancer among other medical conditions somehow finds time to put herself and her own problems on the back burner and shine a light down a familiar long dark tunnel so that we can see the way forward. The Risings Film is segmented and shared out to willing writers, many who are in this just for the thrill of testing their skills of giving birth to fictional characters and introducing them to the cast list with military precision and without any alternative motive other than to see IBT deliver its predictable health improvements.   

Alun constantly informs me that his veins are improving and that he now enjoys wearing shorts instead of support stockings and trousers. He informs me that pains he has had for many years are easing and often not present for a week or more. For a 33 years young man who has hidden his legs for many years and who was seriously considering surgery based on expert opinion, who is now disproving the somewhat erroneous prognosis and is enjoying a new found freedom shown with photographic evidence must be a powerful visual  kick in the balls for those who make a huge amount of money from surgical procedures that are destined to fail because they do not address the cause of the pressure inside the varicose vein.

My own experience photographed above with an Achilles injury and bruising to the bottom of my foot. Every day my foot swells up because I am too stupid to keep off it and it becomes painful. Every night I go to bed and sleep Inclined and every morning my foot is normal size apart from the swelling in the Achilles tendons and surrounding tissue.
This flies in the face of current literature, which predicts the foot will swell more unless the leg is elevated. It does nothing of the kind and again shows consistent errors in the literature that is installed into the brains of surgeons nurses and doctors, who in turn will install it into more surgeons nurses and doctors.

This is a diabolical scandal, perpetuated by the very people who swear to do no wrong to their patients. Yet ulceration, circulatory failure, amputations and death are common place in our hospitals using this erroneous approach and something needs to be done about it sooner rather than later. The notion that if you canít blind them with science you can baffle them with bullshit must surely fit the perpetuation of this unnecessary inhumane suffering, when simply tilting the bed can assist a speedy recovery.

In years to come the pre IBT Era will be looked upon as the dark ages in medicine, much the same as the agonising screams coming from the battlefields wounded as their limbs are amputated with no aesthetic or painkillers.

And yet many people reading this thread fail miserably to grasp the significance of these photographs and statements? Why is this? Is it because it is too simple to be true?
Is it because the discovery was made by an engineer who is not afraid to get his hands dirty rather than a qualified doctor or surgeon?

What doctor or surgeon would dare to go against his or her peers and spend 14 years of their life fighting to have these errors corrected in the literature?

Andrew K Fletcher
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline OldDragon

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Effecting a change in anything takes time, Andrew, and just as folk like myself can only manage a little at a time, rather than attempting to tackle everything at once, moving a mountain, a shovelful at a time, takes time... but many shovels speed up the process!

My own doctor's paying attention now, and as I know the practice he belongs to have several doctors and often they have meetings where they discuss specific cases, I aim to ask him if he has mentioned the improvements in my condition to the others?

Yes, it's going to take time, but by quietly spreading the word about IBT from a personal perspective, and encouraging others to do the same, changes can take place in attitudes - and especially when the medical people involved can actually see and test - by way of BP improvements as well as the clear, visible signs apparent to all - it will help them to revise their text-book learned beliefs.
I am really hoping that, having had recent x-rays of the mess in my lumbar spine, in time and with only the IBT as an influencing factor, if improvements in that can be noted, that will also help to convince them of its benefits.

One thing that does slightly concern me though, is that x-rays and records relating to my back and at around the time of my original accident, do not appear to be in my medical file or even on record! That really IS strange, because those were most definitely used when I was involved in a legal claim against the builder whose negligence caused the accident.

I know that solicitors often only retain on file things for seven years after a case, so possibly they won't have the information either... I am going to try to find out, though.
« Last Edit: 28/08/2008 12:43:13 by OldDragon »
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Offline Karen W.

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I wanted to let you know Andrew that my neighbor Has been a timber worker for most his life and has some pretty severe back problems.. he spent a great deal of time climbing and delimbing giant Redwoods, fur etc...He has run miscelaneous machines in the woods and suffers from sleep apnea and spinal pain... A couple of months ago his doctor told him to incline his bed.. which he did .... He has enjoyed much relief from his sleep apnea and is resting quite well now. His back is feeling better but he was annoyed that he and his wife find themselves slipping off the bottom of the bed at night! They wake with their feet hanging off the bottom.. I have only just 2 days ago told her how to roll a blanket to put under her covers at the bottom to help prevent the slide and also eliminate hard pressure on their feet..

She said they will try it.. It helped in my bed to add the blanket at the bottom, so I hope it will for them also!
I felt this was encouraging news for you... Doctors here are starting to use IBT more often.. My Doctor has asked and I need to get my bed fixed and try again.... Maybe there will be more results second time round and I will notice more during the IBT then after I quit! LOL.. Thats when I realized the differences.. When I talked with Iko some time back I had really felt there had been little benefit, but after being off the bed a while I saw that I had received  more benefits but did not realize it until all these things started becoming a problem again.. LOL.. "You think wow! That hasn't happened for a long time! Whats wrong?" Then the light comes on... LOL... or the bed!!! Yikes.. best put it back up!!
Thanks Andrew from my heart to Yours!

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

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Offline OldDragon

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Time for some stats, Andrew, although the weight one can wait! My scales are lodged in tight behind the loo and I am NOT about to risk fishing them out and kicking my back off in the process! [;D]

BP 135/78
Pulse:87;
Body Fat: 47.9%;
Body Water: 36.4%;
Body Muscle: 48.9%;
Respiration 8 per min.
Calves: Left 39.5cms; Right: 40cms.

Not perfect, but it has been one heck of a day and I've not had a chance to rest before doing the BP and heart rate. Just had to clean up after the ex's dog, who seems to think a floor cloth dropped on the floor was a hind for him to do his business on it!  [:-\]

Also, with it being only a day since the last chemo infusion, I'm back on the old IBS trip and rapid dashes to the bathroom! At least the haemorrhoids are not too bad so far... that must surely be down to IBT?

Feeling a bit queasy, but suspect the anti-sickness drugs may be as much responsible for that, than anything? I felt okay before taking the first dose of the one this morning. Might just risk trying the combination of the other two rather than including the third and see how it goes tomorrow. Sticking to a very plain diet... but I do have some lovely king prawns in the fridge that need using today... Supper, perhaps with a bit of lettuce and dressing?  [;D]

There is still some hardness noticeable to the touch in the varicose vein recently affected by the phlebitis, but that s gradually dissipating now, and not too painful, but I am still sticking with muddying my walking boots rather than wearing my wellies. I think I may need to cut the tops of those off and so that they are kept below that vein, as it is almost always that one that gets affected by the phlebitis. Either that or see if any weigh loss will bring on a further reduction in the size of my calves - mind you, I am fairly large boned and my lower legs don't look particularly fat now that the oedema isn't affecting them. In fact, I can feel the chips in the shin bones now from various riding accidents/kicks over the years!  [::)] [;)]

Got a friend to check out my monitor today and her body water was only 42.4% - I think, or maybe 42.6%?. Others have checked it too, and all between 55% and 70% - and one interesting point is that the two of us who have low body water readings have both had hysterectomies, but none of the others who tested it have. I wonder if that could be a factor?
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Offline alun006

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Hi Old Dragon / Andrew

I have been really pleased with the way the i.b.t has helped with my knee pain, and last night i had a attack after 2 weeks of nothing.

I could not take painkillers when the pain came on, as i had been having a tipple.  I just went to my inclined bed and hoped for the best, almost 20mins after the pain was gone.

This observation was worth a note because in the past i have always had a 2nd attack that was always worse than the first, this has not happened. [;D]

It has been very humid hear, today noting 94 percent.  I am glad i got a de-humidifier, and it is certainly taking on board water aswell.

Hope you get better with your ongoing treatment Old Dragon.

Cheers Alun [8)]

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Offline OldDragon

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Cheers, Alun - only took the one type of anti-sickness drug prescribed again today and so far, so good. I have felt okay and not living in the wretched bathroom.

Had a problem today trying to get an appointment to see my own doctor - yet again - and until next week, but managed to keep my cool and told the receptionist I would simply write him a personal letter. That after she told me all written correspondence ended up being typed into their computer system!  [;D] One of these days I might put that to the test! The mind boggles! (Dear Doc, Sorry there's no eggs for you today but the rain's affecting the hen's desire to lay eggs... yeah, right, they'll hardly gonna add that to a medical file... or are they?)

If correspondence is just added to a file, and the doc who has asked to be kept updated isn't likely to see it until such time as he sees the writer at an appointment, what is the use or point of asking to be kept updated, for goodness sake? Why do the administrators seem to think they have the right to open mail addressed as 'personal' or 'FAO' a specific doctor?

I was actually told to put the letter INSIDE my doctor's box of eggs, that he likes when I have those available and to spare! For all I know, unless handed to him personally, anyone could get hold of any correspondence relating to my medical records - any member of the office staff or even a patient who fancies filching a box of fresh eggs!

Apart from that, I had hoped that I could see him and just get a quick opinion on the remaining evidence of that phlebitis in the vv by my right knee. I guess I'll just have to phone him and ask, but then how's he going to know just how much or little evidence of it there is remaining? How am I supposed to know if the blood clots/residue still poses a threat of thrombosis? I don't know! Next week it might be too late, if so and I stop using the medication! Err on the side of caution, and I'm possibly using a medication unnecessarily...
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Offline OldDragon

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Forgot to tell you something, Andrew... it's in the other thread re. 'Can I donate my still living body...' [;D]

Don't forget to send me that letter we spoke of, will you? [:D]

... Must make an appointment soon to see my optician...
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Hi Karen

Thank you, for your post about your neighbours sleep apnoea and spinal pain.

I have heard of a few doctors who are recommending Inclined Bed Therapy, including a director of a chain of spinal injury rehabilitation centres in the USA.

To prevent slipping place an extra blanket or quilt under the bottom sheet. This does the trick.

Wish more doctors over here were interested in this simple therapy.

Hope you have managed to get your bed altered again as I feel IBT has a lot to offer you in the long term.

It is very common to forget past troubles with medical conditions. People generally donít complain about feeling well. Your reverting back to sleeping flat and noticing changes has highlighted some of the benefits of IBT that you may have missed otherwise.

Hope to see some updates from you soon.

regards

Andrew


I wanted to let you know Andrew that my neighbor Has been a timber worker for most his life and has some pretty severe back problems.. he spent a great deal of time climbing and delimbing giant Redwoods, fur etc...He has run miscelaneous machines in the woods and suffers from sleep apnea and spinal pain... A couple of months ago his doctor told him to incline his bed.. which he did .... He has enjoyed much relief from his sleep apnea and is resting quite well now. His back is feeling better but he was annoyed that he and his wife find themselves slipping off the bottom of the bed at night! They wake with their feet hanging off the bottom.. I have only just 2 days ago told her how to roll a blanket to put under her covers at the bottom to help prevent the slide and also eliminate hard pressure on their feet..

She said they will try it.. It helped in my bed to add the blanket at the bottom, so I hope it will for them also!
I felt this was encouraging news for you... Doctors here are starting to use IBT more often.. My Doctor has asked and I need to get my bed fixed and try again.... Maybe there will be more results second time round and I will notice more during the IBT then after I quit! LOL.. Thats when I realized the differences.. When I talked with Iko some time back I had really felt there had been little benefit, but after being off the bed a while I saw that I had received  more benefits but did not realize it until all these things started becoming a problem again.. LOL.. "You think wow! That hasn't happened for a long time! Whats wrong?" Then the light comes on... LOL... or the bed!!! Yikes.. best put it back up!!
Thanks Andrew from my heart to Yours!
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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The post Old Dragon refered to:Sorry for copying it to this thread but it shows again that more and more doctors are begining to take Inclined Bed Therapy at face value.

This is great news from Karen and OD. Alun is also going to see his vascular consultant and doctor to show the improvements so hopefully we may have some more professional interest soon.
Quote

I managed to see my doc today, despite the raptor receptionist who refused me an appointment until next week - when, incidentally, my doctor is on leave! (One of these days I really will write a letter of complaint about that woman!)

I'd actually written a letter to my doctor, and took it up to the local surgery, where the receptionist there is lovely and the daughter of a friend. She took my letter straight through, along with the eggs for the doctor that he likes, and it seemed he wanted to see me! Felt bad, as I was queue-jumped straight in but could easily have waited.

Whatever, he wanted just to check me for signs of dehydration, because I'd mentioned in the letter about the low body water percentage, and he was satisfied I was okay that way. The other thing that being on the IBT trial and with people following my case study there had been suggesting - no, insisting - that I spoke to my doctor about was the possibility that I have arachnoiditis? I'd dismissed that originally, as I've not had spinal surgery or an epidural, which is what some were asking me about, or directing me to websites that were dealing with that aspect.

BINGO! The doctor only had to look back through my medical file and to see for himself what various other doctors in the practice had recorded over the years, and the symptoms I'd presented with, to realise that the medical research and qualified people on here were very probably correct.

We had a little chat about it, but I was able to say that, for now, and with the history that I have of these symptoms, even though it is incurable, at least I feel that between us we have the measure of it as it affects me, and it's under control. At least with that diagnosis now on my records, it may make any surgeons, or 'Dr. Gods' I might encounter later on, pay attention and listen to me when I tell them my back's a bigger concern to me than the cancer!

Had a long chat on the phone tonight with Andrew, which was nice, although he probably thinks I burned his ears a bit on a few things   Aim to pass on some more stuff of Andrew's to my doctor, who seems to have certainly eaten his words now about my oedema getting worse on IBT!  He's really amazed how much it's helping me and has seen the evidence in front of him, along with the records of my stats to back it all up. I don't think he has ever been able to actually SEE the bones in my legs before, but now I can even feel the old chip's and injury sites on my shin bones and from riding accidents I've had (kicks and various collisions with jumps/fences etc) that date back to my teens! 

One more thing that I have noticed, and was told that IBT can help - my eyesight seems to be improving! Yes, really! Weird as it sounds, I was borderline for needing glasses to drive with last year when tested, but couldn't see the instrument panel dials well enough to read them clearly, as I'm very long sighted. Today, my specs kept steaming up with all the rain, and when I drove from the fields and seeing to the horses up to the doctor's, I took the specs off and suddenly realised I could read the numbers on my speedo!

Whatever, despite having had it confirmed about the arachnoiditis, I feel really good at the moment. Nothing's really changed, anyway regarding the back, and because I've lived with it for years anyway, so there's no point getting down on that score. Better, surely, to look at the positives that can result from the diagnosis, and all the other things that I feel are coming along better.
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I suspect there are more people trying this for varicose veins and oedema and if you are one of them please post your experiences using IBT.

Andrew



Forgot to tell you something, Andrew... it's in the other thread re. 'Can I donate my still living body...' [;D]

Don't forget to send me that letter we spoke of, will you? [:D]

... Must make an appointment soon to see my optician...

« Last Edit: 04/09/2008 20:23:24 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Ruby Tate appeared on Local Television News to share her story with her partner Harry. I may still have the video somewhere though means wading through lots of tapes. Anyway, note the similarities between the new reports and this older report, which incidentally was shared on the Internet several years ago and should be easy to locate in the carecure forum to confirm this.

Quote
Ruby, 2nd April 98

Over two years ago I sat in the armchair reading a small advert which asked people to raise their bed by six inches at the head and to reply and tell what benefits had been noted. (No explanation was given)
At the time I could not move my neck to my left or right side and it ached continuously. I was unable to sleep at night as i could not get comfortable. I was only able to turn by gently easing myself. It took about three to four turns. Getting out of bed was a major obstacle. I needed help to dress and undress.

I spent most of my nights in the chair with the result that I was always tired and had no energy.

My problem is osteoporosis of the upper and lower spine. I had tried hormone replacement therapy and wasted a small fortune with bone speacialists and ostopaths.

I was resigned to living my days out as best I could, having been told that there was nothing more that could be done for me.

I expected nothing but had nothing to lose, so Harry raised the bed by six inches. We did not take it very seriously but were happy to try anything.

On the fourth night I had the first full nights sleep since I don't remember when. By the end of the week I was sleeping naturally and turning over with ease. My dressing was a problem no longer, each day it became easier. I was able to turn my head without pain, right or left, to see the clock without getting up from my chair.

There have been many other benefits too. I have worn glasses from the age of seven years and I am now sixty eight years. Last year was the first time I was told that there was a small improvement.
My hair appears thicker, my hair brush needs cleaning less often.

Harry had a large suptuating scar since he was six years old. He has had to continually dress it all of his life. But now it has healed up. His ear which constantly gave him trouble wityh a discharge has now cleared up completely.

We both feel that the clock has been put back for us! I give thanks for this invention and wish Andrew every success in the future for the benefits he has given us and will continue to do so.

Yours truly,

Ruby


This letter was sent to me in the knowledge that it would be used to help others to follow. Ruby to this day enjoys the continued benefits of this simple intervention.

Andrew

« Last Edit: 04/09/2008 20:54:54 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline OldDragon

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Well, after getting soaked to the skin today and sinking into a foot of mud and slurry, and whilst only daring to wear my walking boots rather than wellies after that latest, nasty bout of phlebitis, I am about to take a pair of strong, sharp scissors to my wellies! Am aiming to cut away the area that causes direct pressure on the varicose vein that is regularly affected by phlebitis. Although that has almost recovered now, there are still a few hard, lumpy areas present to the touch, and I don't want to cause it to be kicked off again.

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Offline OldDragon

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Andrew, I posted the following on a Welsh forum that I belong to, please let me know if I have missed anything out, as someone there asked me what IBT stood for because I'd mentioned it in a post and in passing...

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Original question: What's IBT, never heard of the abbreviation ???'

IBT stands for Inclined Bed Therapy. It was discovered by medical researcher and engineer, Andrew K Fletcher and back in the 1990s. However, his idea was dismissed simply because it appears to fly in the face of the previous beliefs on the part of the medical text books about how the circulatory system works. Andrew discovered that, instead of the heart being solely responsible for pumping our blood around the system, gravity also played a vital part, and especially in removing toxins and solutes from the blood, and removing these from the body via the kidneys and urine.

For a long time, I have had problems with varicose veins and oedema, and periodic bouts of phlebitis, so when, a few months ago, I discovered a study was being done on The Naked Scientists forum - see this link: Varicose Veins & IBT Study - I followed some of the links shown there, and realised that this could also help a long term back problem that I have, and other conditions, too.

Andrew agreed that I could join in the study group, and I spoke with my doctor about it too. My doctor said he couldn't see any reason why I shouldn't join in, but to expect my oedema and varicose veins to get worse! This because instead of raising the legs, one sleeps at a 5 degree angle and with the legs lower than the head. Well, he was astonished to see the difference himself, because my oedema disappeared within days! My calves were measured prior to commencing IBT and after, and they reduced in size by as much as 5cms - about 2.5"!

I also started to get decent quality, restorative sleep almost immediately, which is something I've not experienced for years! Indeed, due to my back problem, and a natural chemical reaction that it seems to cause when flaring, very often I would go for days or even weeks at a time without any sleep at all, or just brief periods of dozing, and when in a sitting position, because often the back would not even allow me to assume a prone position.

Other benefits include a lowering of blood pressure - and a friend (aged 58 and in Wales) who was recently told by his doctor that his BP was so dangerously high that he could die at any moment, commenced IBT and with almost immediate benefits! His BP, and without medication, has now reduced consistently to a range between 130/75 and 120/70, and sometimes as low as 110/65! His doctor was stunned by this result!

Now that I have been doing IBT for a couple of months, I am beginning to notice improvements in my back problem. This I was told likely wouldn't be noticeable for four to eight months, and mainly because there are two conditions that affect my spine. In the lumbar region, I have osteoarthritis, and there I have noticed a lessening of the pain in that region. In fact, sometimes I realise I don't even have that dull ache that never seemed to go away at all! Higher up, and in the thoracic region, I've been affected by periods of severe inflammation and pain, including severe muscle spasms (like electric shocks) that can sometimes have a paralysing effect and make breathing difficult and also affects the use of my hands and arms. After many years, that has finally been diagnosed as arachnoiditis, and after those medically qualified people following the IBT trial recognised the symptoms and alerted me to mention it to my doctor, when all the pointers over the years suddenly fell into place! Whatever, there has definitely been a lessening of the incidents of inflammation and therefore muscle spasms and their strength since commencing IBT. (Also my need to take medication to address thesee!) I have also started to lose some weight at last, and had been really struggling to do that for years, and largely because I wasn't able to exercise much at all - and now I can (to some degree) and without aggravating the back!

There are lots of conditions that IBT can help to improve, and quality of life is not the least amongst them! The best of it is, it is virtually free! Raising the head end of the bed just 6" can be achieved with a couple of breeze blocks - even recycled ones! In my case, and because of the type of legs on my bed-settee, I chose to have wooden blocks made with a hollowed out section in them that would hold the bed's legs securely in place, and those cost me just £30! A price well worth paying for the improvement in my sleep quality alone, and because now I have energy again, and feel really quite well! (This even despite undergoing chemotherapy for breast cancer during much of the time I've been doing the IBT trial!)

If you think it could help you, why not just try it? Beg a couple of old breeze blocks from a builder, wrap them in old towels to protect you carpet or flooring, and raise the HEAD end of your bed by 6". Do make sure that you drink plenty of fluids too, and so that you don't become dehydrated as the solutes and toxins are removed from your body. IBT provides quite a powerful detox to the system and you may well find yourself popping to the bathroom on a more regular basis. If you find yourself slipping down the bed a bit, wrap an extra duvet around the mattress and under the sheet to provide some extra comfort and friction, also don't sleep in pants that could cut into the groin a bit, and do remove any footboard from the bed to avoid pressure on the feet. You can always add a throw over the end of the bed to keep your feet warm if the poke out a bit, but one thing I have really noticed, is that my previously cold feet (due to poor circulation) are now like toast!

There are a huge number of medical conditions that can benefit from IBT, including heart conditions, sleep apnoea, breathing problems, spinal problems, arthritis, MS, circulatory problems, skin conditions, and so on.

So far the only person amongst those friends whom I've recommended it to to complain about its benefits, is a chap who has suddenly started getting early morning erections on a regular basis, and after years of having a problem in that department!  Others that have discovered this same thing don't see to consider it a problem at all - at least, not one they cannot deal with!  In fact, it's been quite a handy thing when it comes to couples where the wife may have had leg problems and the husband being reluctant to raise their bed just for his wife's benefit! Fit people trying it, have noticed that they wake feeling more refreshed and energetic, and young, fit couples, tell me that yes, it does seem to improve their love lives too! (Well, haven't the Welsh always been a pasionate race?  [;)] )

If you think there's anything that I might need to add, or have missed out anything important, please let me know, thanks.  [:)]
Pain Promotes Growth - Suffering is Optional.

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Offline alun006

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Hi Old Dragon

I must say, i am impressed with your write up on i.b.t. (Hope Andrew thinks the same.)

Well when i read the bit about wearing tight clothes in the groin area, i can not stress that i have had probs from this.

Please learn by my mistake, as this was pointed out at the start by andrew. I had complained of a blow-out in the groin area, which i thought was a lymph node swelling.  Anyway i talked to andrew and he mentioned that i may be experiencing a night wedge effect,that could have also been causing the blow out aswell.

Now i did take this on board, but made the mistake of accessing my activite in bed when i was awake.

I feel a bit silly now, as i was experiencing a discomfort in that area which would sometimes be a problem and other times it was not.

This looking back was due to my positioning in bed not always being the same.

I am so glad that the penny dropped and i rectified this problem.  Within the first night of doing commando, i am not getting this discomfort and hope to see the blow out at the top of my leg decrease now.

Sometimes new things can be misunderstood, but i am glad i relised whot was happening. and am now feeling much better.

(How i thought i could access the activities of my sleeping position when i was awake, i do not know  LOL)

(Feeling slightly silly) alun

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Offline geordiejulie

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Hi Andrew,

I am Aluns wife (I must have sinned in a previous life!)
I have recently started on IBT and just wanted to post a few of the observations I have made over the past three weeks.
Firstly I have to say that if anyone was a cynic to this process it would have been me, like a lot of people we are all programmed like robots to believe that whatever a medical professional tells us must be right, so the idea that you should sleep inclined in the opposite direction to that which is conventional was a mystery to me.  Alun began this process about 3 months ago and I have closely watched his progress.  I have to say that the bed looked very uncomfortable but he stuck with it and has gained so much from this process.  I have seen him gain confidence, a definate improvement in his varicose veins but above all he no longer has constant pains in his legs and this is something that has bothered him for some 30 years.
It was this that persuaded me to give it a go. 

I am fortunate to have little medical problems but a brief description would be;

Asthma
Lower back pain
Pain in left hip on walking distance
Disturbed sleep patterns
Some spider veins

Now out of these the lower back pain has got to be the worst. In 2005 we purchased a very good quality bed, our excuse was 'look after your back you spend a lot of time in bed'
Well the back pain began and has continued everynight since. 

Since beginning the IBT I have to say, and this is an honest evaluation, I have slept like a baby, it is complete bliss and definately not uncomfortable. 
I wake up pain free almost every morning and this is a huge improvement. I used to hold back from drinking before bed because I knew I would definately be up during the night, now this is not the case.  I can drink as much as I like and not wake up. 

I am drinking a lot more, sometimes 3 litres of liquid(not tea or coffee) in a day. 
I still get the pain in hips on walking a distance but I genuinely dont suffer for 2-3 days afterwards as I used to.
I definately feel more energetic.
I have not noticed a significant difference in my asthma yet but this is difficult as it is worse during summer months or when I have a cold.

In the first few days I had really bad heads and spots and I can only assume that these symptoms were caused by the amount of toxins that were being flushed from my body at that time.  The odd morning I will wake up with a headache that is similar to that you would have after a real good night out.  On these mornings I know that I must drink alot more and this clears.
I have felt tingles/nerve flutters in my legs and sometimes hands, more in the first week, but still occasionally.
My period normally follows the same pattern, though not always regular. As well as the usuall mood swings etc, I will have back ache for a couple of days before hand and restless sleep, stomach ache for the first day, then I will have a headache for a day or so after the end of my period. This last one though came without any warning, and this is something that has only ever happened on one other occasion. Dont know at the minute whether this is good or not. 
I have not noticed any significant change with the spider veins but I know it is early days and to me this is not that important.

Overall, I can honestly say I feel alot healthier,  I have more energy,  I sleep so much better and dont regret it at all. I would definately reccomend it and urge people to try it. I am amazed that simply adjusting the angle of your bed can make such a difference.

Thanks Andrew!


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Offline Tezzab4

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I hope I'm not too late to join this study as well.  I have varicose veins and was looking up natural alternatives to the conventional therapies as I would rather fix the parts in my body than just remove them and still be none the wiser.  Anyhow I came across Andrew Fletcher's ideas and am willing to try them out and document my experiment if it could help anyone else.  I have already seen a specialist about getting the veins removed but especially after already having an operation in my teens am a little wary about removing any more "redundant" body parts.  It's getting late now so I'll join in the discussion when I'm more alert. 

Before I go should I use any natural herbal medicines like Horse chestnut or should I refrain for the length of the study as this could compromise the results?

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Tezzab4

Thank you and ďyour not too lateĒ to join the study, in fact we need quite a few more people to join us to confirm these results. Finding people willing to try this is painfully slow unfortunately, but with a little perseverance we should get there in the end.

If you could share photographs of your veins before using IBT, using photobucket or another online host to link the pictures to the thread so we can see any changes as and when they take place by comparing before and after pictures as Alun has shown it would be very helpful.

If you have edema / oedema then some measurements of your legs would prove useful to determine if this improves using IBT or not.

Heart rate blood pressure, respiration rate would be great too if possible. Maybe your doctor could measure these and give you the results?

If you have any other problems you feel may be worth monitoring, please make a list and give a brief description, for example: You may snore, have sleep problems, cold feet and hands in bed, laboured respiration, sinus problems, anything that is troubling you make a note so that we have a bench mark before you begin.

RE: Herbal remedies. You could include how long you have been taking them or using them on the skin and add a note about whether they have worked or are working so that they can be taken into account if you feel you want to continue using them.

Glad you have found our study

Regards

Andrew
« Last Edit: 02/10/2008 23:38:41 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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geordiejulie

Thank you for your post relating to your own observations and your observations with Alun's legs, pain and general well-being.

All of the conditions you list have been reported to improve by other people over the years, so we can confidently predict that most of these should resolve in due course.

It was also interesting that you should notice changes in your monthly cycle, and I suspect this will continue.

Your post was a breath of fresh air for our study and is indicative that we are going to see many more changes that echo those from pilot studies into various conditions.

Your observation with tingling nerves is also interesting and reminds me of my many years of research and study into neurological conditions, including multiple sclerosis, spinal cord injury and Parkinsonís disease. These tingling pains were usually a precursor to significant recovery from neurological losses. Increase spasm was another indicator in these conditions. Thatís another avenue for research later.

Keeping the study simple is difficult when so many important changes are taking place, it becomes difficult not to thunder off in another direction just to feed a hungry mind.

I have a feeling we are in for some real surprises over the coming months, providing we can find more people to join our study of course.

Please keep making notes and dating any observations as and when they happen and please come back and let us know about any changes you observe.

Some things to watch out for.

Changes in finger nails, half moons, quality, strength, shine, and general health in the nails. Changes in hair colour thickness, strength, body. Changes in your face even so taking a few pictures and comparing them to older pictures may reveal improvements in skin tone and muscle tone.

Do your hands and feet feel warmer now your bed is tilted? Do you feel less cold in bed?

Hangover is a good one, though not for one minute you put this to the test. Myself and others have reported that hangovers are not as troublesome on IBT.

Andrew

PS have updated the first post in this thread to include research from NASA




Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Tezzab4

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Right I'm back.  I'm going to display 3 pics.  2 of my left leg which appears to be much worse than my right and 1 a brown patch on my right in the front of my calf which has not disappeared.  This is indicative (IMO) of the brown staining that often occurs with varicose veins but may not be so evident from the photo but if u look closely u can see on the left leg it's browner the closer u get to the ankle.

Unfortunately these are actually after 3 nights of IBT as I didn't realise a study was still going as I was still scouting info on net when I started.  I have only raised the bed 4 inches so far but I will raise it a further couple of inches today. 

My calves have a circumference of 465 mm L & 467 mm R.

I have had my veins stripped when I was about 17 so I don't know how this will affect anything.  I won't use any herbal supplements for 4 weeks at least and haven't been using any for at least a month.   

Andrew I have read recently about ppl adding salt and minerals to their water which had gone through a reverse osmosis system and one saying that their vv have improved as a result.  Is salt good or bad for the circulation and do you have suggestions on the amounts. I remember reading something about the water cure where they add salt to their water as well.

Can you actually blow veins out through excessive intra-abdominal pressure because I am sure I've done it through lifting weights?

thank you,
Tezza

« Last Edit: 04/10/2008 05:31:12 by Tezzab4 »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Tezza

Great job of the pictures. These will prove useful in a few weeks time for comparison. 3 days of IBT at a lower angle of elevation should not have changed the appearance of the veins that much.
You are obviously the best judge of this.

Calf measurements good move also, though looking at your photographs you donít appear to have oedema so the measurements wonít change as much as a person with oedema, but should prove interesting.

The surgery you had at 17 did it improve the outcome for you?

And did the herbal remedies you were taking have any affect?

Dissolved salts and sugars according to this new theory on circulation is what drives it and maintains the body. Modern diets often have excessive salt in them already, usually sodium chloride. Substituting the type of salt you use may improve your health.

We drink filtered rainwater now at home, apart from tasting like water should taste, it has very little (if any) mineral dissolved in it and as a result should act as a blood thinner over time without using any medication. Distilled water in desert countries has this effect on the blood.

Drinking more water would be a smart move on IBT as the angled bed does cause more solute to enter the bladder via the improved renal filtration, causing a detox from the blood.

RE venous Blowouts: It is highly probable that this may have happened. Alun reported a blowout observation that we now think was caused by his use of a support stocking and possibly aggravated by wearing under pants on an inclined bed as they pulled up into the groin area. Something others have noticed.

I had a blowout haemorrhoid while stupidly lifting a commercial sunbed down a flight of stairs with me at the top and two people at the bottom. My legs were spread wide due to the huge sunbed and I felt the vein blow out leaving me with an unpleasant bulge in the worst place you could get one. Thankfully this presents no problem for me any more.  Your question re blowouts is a valid point.

Could you take some higher res pictures also?

Thanks Tezza
« Last Edit: 04/10/2008 09:52:43 by Andrew K Fletcher »
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Tezzab4

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Andrew,

Thanks for your reply.  I would have liked to have taken the pics at the start obviously as I feel that my legs are less tired and achy as they usually are (even after 3 days) and any swelling that I may have had may have gone down.  The leg with the most veins does not have the extent of discolouration that the other one does which I think is caused by leakage from the veins.   

The surgery was for the most part successful in that the veins I did have were more bulbous and torturous and they did go for the most part.  After I got married I put on weight which probably affected their reappearance and I around 1996 noticed the staining of my calves more so on the right leg. 

I don't look at my legs much so I can't really tell from appearance whether horse chestnut helped and did no measurements but I did notice my legs were no longer as tired and sore.  I have heard that there might be some side affects to horse chestnut so sometimes I switch it with Paroven.  Usually I take nothing as I am concerned about side affects and haven't really gotten into the habit of taking them although at one time I did for about 8 wks.

The blowout occurred after I was deadlifting about 120 kg.  I felt something and looked down to where I felt something and saw the "blowout" which is that vein spider vein thing just in the inside of my leg above the knee.  I did lift heavier weights a few years earlier so it might have been because I hadn't done any exercise for a while.  It might be better to only train one limb at a time to get around this limitation of increased intra-abdominal pressure.     

I still have the higher resolution pics but thought they would be too big to post them here.  I'm not really familiar with linking them either as I've seen some people do.  I'll have to play around with this forum posting options and will include them when I post some more pics in a weeks time. 

What is your opinion on the best exercise for varicose veins?  Would it be walking?  Some ppl have suggested that their veins become more engorged after exercise. 

cheers,
Tezza

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Best exercise for varicose veins could be sleeping on an inclined bed, Exercising on an inclined bed even better! Making sure you donít sit on cold hard surfaces, including the loo seat for too long as this restricts the size of the veins causing them to inflate more. (Odd how old wives tails have merit) Cycling, not sure about as constant pressure on saddle may exacerbate the veins, though this is an assumption on my part has having no evidence to support this.

Walking gets a big thumbs up! Though standing in one position for a long time could also cause the veins to swell due again to restricting vessels on the bottom of the foot. This also explains why people pass out while standing in cues, on guard duty, at weddings and funerals. Often portrayed as amusing there is I am sure a connection between this and stroke, maybe a precursor warning someone of their blood pressure problem?

Thinking about your mentioning of drinking reverse osmosis water. It could be beneficial having less solutes in the blood as this would make the blood more aggressive at dissolving / absorbing arterial deposits. Also thinner blood should reduce pressure inside the veins and areteries.
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: Inclined sleep
From: Brenda and Dick
Sent:
10 October 2008 00:13:34
To:
Andrew K Fletcher

Feel free to post my previous notes from June.
We are still happily using IBT to control my GERD-related night-time cough and recurrent sinusitis, both of which completely disappeared with the use of the inclined bed. (although I have had to remain on Nexium for daytime GERD symptoms.) Both of us are 67 and we do not have  varicose veins or leg swelling problems; that may be due to the IBT, who knows? I lower the bed when I change the bedding, and if I forget to raise it before bedtime, we notice the difference immediately. We definitely sleep better the inclined way. Thanks, Andrew. Brenda

Inclined sleep
From: Brenda and Dick

Sent:
07 June 2006 16:03:46
To:
Andrew K Fletcher

    You, my dear, have done a very good thing in sharing your inclined sleep theory on the world-side web.  It inspired me to seek a good solution to trying your suggestions. 
    Six nights sleeping on the inclined bed at about 4" & it is absolutely amazing.  I am sleeping much more soundly & longer each night. Previously, I slept 3-5 hours max, but I am routinely sleeping 7-9 hours.  I can't even begin to explain why!  Most  of the symptoms & pain related to my GERD have gone away; I am still taking the Nexium and will continue it for a few weeks before doing a trial without.  I wake up with no aching joints, no stiff neck, and warm feet - for the first time in my 65 years of adult life.   In addition, the night time swelling in my husband's feet and legs has improved dramatically. 
       I am encouraging my son and daughter-in-law to replace their own bedslats, since she suffers from untreated sleep apnea, as well as spinal compression problems. They will have to delay the purchase a bit as my son is undergoing extensive surgery next week and I think he would have difficulty getting on and off the bed post-operatively. But maybe in a few months...
    Again, thank you, thank you  for the creative and original thinking and may your study be remarkable!  Brenda Parker


Re: RE: How is the inclined sleep study going?
 
Sent:
06 June 2006 12:26:54
To:
Andrew K Fletcher

Cc:

Yes, we are interested in participating in your study, although we are not dealing with any spinal cord disease.   The conditions for which we are seeking relief by using the inclined sleep are sleep apnea, reflux disease and associated medical complications, including early lung changes.
 After only 5 nights using the inclined sleep, there is dramatic improvement in both of those conditions; we will be interested to see if this continues. 
We are strongly encouraging our 30 year old daughter who has MS to try the therapy.
Thanks for your intriguing theory & project. Brenda
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Tezzab4

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I took some photo's in the weekend but with much different lighting conditions and the angles are different so with such small and subtle differences which I would expect it would be hard to compare.  Tomorrow I will take photos inside and try to take them from the same angle and distance as to make better comparisons.

I will say that the tiredness and soreness that normally occurs at the end of the day is much reduced so much so that on a day when I am not working (standing for the most part) I can hardly notice it at all and those days that I am working it is lessened considerably.

I wonder if anyone knows what is the best way to sit at the computer.  Right now I am resting my legs on about a 20 degree slope on an exercise ball.  Is this any good?

Does increasing the lung capacity have a significant increase on circulation because there is more surface area to help with the evaporation?

There seems to be exercise which lowers blood pressure mainly aerobic and then there is exercise like heavy weight lifting which seems to increase blood pressue.  I recall reading something about how the 2 types of exercise affect intra-occular eye pressure.  Ok I've just come across some info on how the Valsalva effect might be the reason why blood pressure increases.  I think I will need to read up more on it.

CIAO,
Tezza   

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Alun

Your photographs prove beyond any shadow of doubt that IBT reduces venous pressure causing the veins to normalise in size. They are indeed truly remarkable photographs, considering that doctors and surgeons believe that raising the head end of the bed will cause the blood to pool and the veins to swell leading to oedema.

I have waited a long time to find a way of showing this effect while remaining on the inclined bed, not having varicose veins myself it has been difficult to find people who will provide photographic evidence.

If we compare your recent photographs with the first photograph you took prior to tilting your bed we can see a phenomenal difference in the varicose veins.

So if you can select the edit tab to your post and add the first photograph for comparison it will leave people in no doubt as to the efficacy of IBT for this condition.

Your knee pain and varicose vein pains are now as you state, have greatly improved, less painful and considerably less frequent than before, again indicating that there may be more to IBT than one would realise in a VV study.

As the veins remain relaxed and normalised over night, the veins should contract and resist internal pressures more. This is a gradual process and may take many more months in your case due to the severity of the swelling in the veins, before they sink to skin level completely.

You mentioned this is happening with the varicose blow out from the vein in your groin and that it has changed, becoming far less obvious now. Again great news Alun, thank you for mentioning this in our chat on MSN.

There are doctors and surgeons monitoring this thread. Would it be possible to get some comments from you?

Andrew
« Last Edit: 15/10/2008 09:12:24 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Tezza

Thats good news about your tiredness and discomfort. This should improve more over the next 2 weeks.

Can't wait for the photographs too.

Re Sitting posture: Bottoms up is the way to go. Phrase coined by John Simkins formerly manager of the MSRC charity. It means making sure at all times your bottom is higher than your knees and that your legs slope down most of the time.

There are wedge cushions available from Ebay and other suppliers for next to no money. Sitting on one now :)

Alun has just ordered one. These are good for driving long distances too and more to the point, we now understand why people find them so comfortable.

IBT causes the lungs to inflate and therefore deflate more, as you say this increases the capacity of the lungs so would increase the gas exchange too and therefore would definitely increase circulation so long as our circulation is aligned to the direction of gravity.
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Offline alun006

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Hi Andrew

I will add the photo that i took before ibt, but they where taken when i was standing up. will that be alright to compare with the vv photo's when lieing down on i.b.t.

Sorry, just wanted to give the right results over.

I am still getting the knee pain (but only occasionally), but andrew if you compare 1-2 a fortnight compared to whot was 6-8 times a fortnight. as a example, the road to fully sorting out the problem is near.

And as i mentioned on a previous thread, i went on a 10.5 mile hike and did not get a sign of the pain till 5 days after.

Tezza
You have the right idea about photos, and picking the right light to compare. It is great you are now on i.b.t

alun006

« Last Edit: 14/10/2008 22:24:56 by alun006 »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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The idea of showing the photograph standing and laying on an inclined bed is so people looking to the IBT photographs can easily understand how tilting the bed so that the feet are lower than the head produces more beneficial results than standing. The picture also shows that the current accepted literature predictions on what according to doctors, nurses and surgeons believe will happen is completely wrong!

There is no pooling, No swollen veins, No decrease in circulation, The heart does not have to work harder and works at a decreased rate than when on a flat bed.

It was very important to obtain these photographs in order to prove this to those that think this therapy is too simple it canít possibly have an affect.

Showing your legs before you tilted the bed also allows people to determine the differences between standing and sleeping on IBT.

Thanks for correcting me on the knee pain being still a problem but less frequent and less painful , I have altered my post to state this correctly

Thanks again Alun
Hi Andrew

I will add the photo that i took before ibt, but they where taken when i was standing up. will that be alright to compare with the vv photo's when lieing down on i.b.t.

Sorry, just wanted to give the right results over.

I am still getting the knee pain (but only occasionally), but andrew if you compare 1-2 a fortnight compared to whot was 6-8 times a fortnight. as a example, the road to fully sorting out the problem is near.

And as i mentioned on a previous thread, i went on a 10.5 mile hike and did not get a sign of the pain till 5 days after.

Tezza
You have the right idea about photos, and picking the right light to compare. It is great you are now on i.b.t

alun006


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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Alun

Thanks for the photographs. We were waiting for reports from other people trying this method. I know there are others and we would all find it useful if you could share your own experiences with the forum. Even better if you can add a few photographs of before and after IBT.

If you are reading this thread and decide to try it please take some photographs of your varicose veins and / or oedema before you go ahead so that comparisons can be made over time.

Andrew
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Offline alun006

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Hi Andrew

I have been experiencing some pain, on the back of my thigh recently. It was thought to be The fact i have been getting anxious about the business and other matters at the moment, and this was causing me to tighten the muscles on the back of my thigh, as well as in the groin area.

I also mentioned the lump bulge near my groin, that had decreased from popping out the skin, but could still be felt.

I was examend by the doctor, in the areas i have pointed out above.

The doctor said he would send me for a ultra sound, just to be on the safe side.

I went to the ultra sound expecting everything to be pretty straight forward, he examined my groin and inguinal area, then ask about the bulge on my right hand side, and started to examine this with the ultra sound tool.

I ask him if everything was alright. When he looked at the screen, he said that it looked like i had a aneurysm in that area.   immediately i felt concerned, and asked him about it.  Nothing much more was said, except that normally drug users get them in that area, at my age when they inject themselves. I was told that it was nothing to worry about, and to make a appointment with my GP for the results.

Now i have never been involved with drug injecting activity before, i am not the age that this normally happens to.   To say i am worried is a under estimation.

I wanted to know if you could give any comment on whot has happened here, should i be so worried.  I just wanted a bit support, and in site into whot is happening with my vein.

Many Thanks alun006

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Offline Karen W.

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High Blood pressure could make it worse.. so watch your blood pressure and do see the doctor.. The wall of the artery is thin in that location and the pressure of your blood has increased in that area where your artery has become thin and distended,, this can make it weak when the blood pressure is high.. at least thats how the doctor explained my aneurysms to me. I have two in my Aorta both ascending and descending sides ... Large one in the descending side fixing to have to be repaired...

Technicians cannot confirm or elaborate your Doctor will need to do that to confirm diagnosis. Be calm... my doctor said no lifting.. and such to bring pressure up.. your doctor will elaborate for you it may be different procedures with a leg!

Although he did say that it is an inherited trait.. some families carry.. ( Aneurysms that is.. arteries that have thin spots in the walls can develop these aneurysms when Blood pressure gets to high over long periods of time...

I have never used drugs and am 48 years old too.. so am in the same boat.. but I do of congenital heart problems etc... so Blood pressure these days is a problem.. See the doctor and be calm it is definitely an understatement and I know exactly how you feel!


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Offline alun006

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Karen W

Thankyou for your support.

The confirmation will come on wednesday, if it is a aneurysm.  However, i wanted to ask? does your bulge have a pulse, as i have not found this on mine.

P.S
Karen, can i also ask if you are still on i.b.t and is it helping with your health.

Thanks alun006
« Last Edit: 28/11/2008 12:43:31 by alun006 »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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As I said in out MSN conversation, a pulse should be noticed on examination if it is an arterial bulge or (arterial aneurysm) It should also be firmer than a venous bulge or (blow out) according to the video shown on the link in the first post on this thread. The couch reflex is another indication that this may be a venous blow out / aneurysm, again die to the very soft collapsible nature of the bulge and that the bulge is improving and remaining flat for prolonged periods indicates it is more like a varicose vein than an arterial bulge. We will have to wait and hear the results from the ultrasound to confirm this.

Great news that the problem appears to be resolving itself on Inclined Bed Therapy and that it is level with the skin more than it is raised above the skin as was the case when you first noticed it.

If the problem was worsening rather than improving cause for concern might be in order.

Surgical repair should not become necessary if it is a vein you are observing.
 
Andrew
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Offline alun006

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Hi Andrew

It is good to be able to tell you that the bulge in the groin has been described as a anuryseum in the vein ( a bulge in the vein), which means it is not a artery anuryseum bulge problem.

The Doctor has ask me to see a specialist, as he would like to know how this has happened in that area. and the fact it is a vein bulge.

Your advice and support is appreciated, You were spot on with whot you thought about the vein.

I am now hoping that more people will help you with this important study, so instead of them just reading about this amazingly simple therapy and deciding to go try it, they will help by coming back to the study thread and report their findings.

Thankyou alun006

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Offline Karen W.

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Karen W

Thankyou for your support.

The confirmation will come on wednesday, if it is a aneurysm.  However, i wanted to ask? does your bulge have a pulse, as i have not found this on mine.

P.S
Karen, can i also ask if you are still on i.b.t and is it helping with your health.

Thanks alun006
Hi Alun,

Your Welcome...hope all goes well for you!

My varicose vein bulge has no pulse..... but my Aneurysms are located in the Ascending Aorta.. and one in the Descendining side also.. I can somewhat feel the area onascending side more because it hurts at times and I have found my chest is very tender over that spot... no Pulse I am aware of, but mine are arterrial Aneurysms.. not veinous..

 I am not on IBT at this moment..as Rob has not put it back up yet and  I had a incident a week ago,, not anything to do with the IBT.. nothing ..I wish to discuss... right now.. later for sure...

It was helping my veins as well as eodema..also sleep and breathing is easier in that position.....
something elde the bottpm of my feet had quit hurting! They were hurting as soon as I stood up and continued to hurt after lying down!

 Will do it again when I get a release from the doctor.

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Hi Alun
Many people who have read this thread must be trying it or considering trying IBT. It baffles me why some people take and never contribute anything towards our study. This is the most disheartening thing about all these years spent researching this wonderful discovery. You are a rare find Alun. Your unselfish openness and willingness to help others by sharing your experiences is commendable and very much appreciated.

Great news that the bulge is a varicose vein. You also mentioned other improvements that the doctor picked up on regarding improvements in muscles. Can you elaborate on this a little more?

A person got back to me 2 days ago saying he thought Naked Scientists forum was closed to the general public and required qualifications to join it. Maybe this is putting people off taking part in our study?

Let us hope that people reading your last post will respond and join us.

Andrew




Hi Andrew

It is good to be able to tell you that the bulge in the groin has been described as a anuryseum in the vein ( a bulge in the vein), which means it is not a artery anuryseum bulge problem.

The Doctor has ask me to see a specialist, as he would like to know how this has happened in that area. and the fact it is a vein bulge.

Your advice and support is appreciated, You were spot on with whot you thought about the vein.

I am now hoping that more people will help you with this important study, so instead of them just reading about this amazingly simple therapy and deciding to go try it, they will help by coming back to the study thread and report their findings.

Thankyou alun006
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Hi Karen.

You posted some of your experiences using IBT on another thread relating to your heart condition. There were some very useful blood pressure measurements and photographs. Could I ask you to copy and paste them onto this thread so we can show how IBT improved your blood pressure and oedema? Also if you could take some more photographs of your legs before you tilt the bed again it would be a brilliant comparison with you having reverted back to flat bed rest for so long.

Regards

Andrew

Hi Alun,

Your Welcome...hope all goes well for you!

My varicose vein bulge has no pulse..... but my Aneurysms are located in the Ascending Aorta.. and one in the Descending side also.. I can somewhat feel the area on ascending side more because it hurts at times and I have found my chest is very tender over that spot... no Pulse I am aware of, but mine are arterial Aneurysms.. not venous..

 I am not on IBT at this moment as Rob has not put it back up yet and  I had a incident a week ago,, not anything to do with the IBT.. nothing ..I wish to discuss... right now.. later for sure...

It was helping my veins as well as oedema. .also sleep and breathing is easier in that position.....
something else the bottom of my feet had quit hurting! They were hurting as soon as I stood up and continued to hurt after lying down!

 Will do it again when I get a release from the doctor.
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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WHY so Long for accepting what is after all inevitable?
Quote
Today is a good day! ,Wednesday 17-Nov-1999
writes,Nope  today is truly great day!
I had a chance meeting with a vascular surgeon a couple of weeks ago
he listened as I rambled on about gravity  as I do. He then said that
he had to check out my ideas at the hospital and within an hour he came
back to me saying that he had found someone who I was helping and that
the inclined bed appeared to work.
His interest is in circulatory problems including oedema  gangrene
varicose veins and leg ulcer.
An important development is now taking place with regards of setting up
a clinically controlled study into varicose veins  oedema and gangrene.
A vascular surgeon has expressed an interest in my work and wants to
become involved with a study to see what effect gravity has on the
above conditions. I have waited so long for this to happen and am
delighted with the outcome to say the least.
Last year I met with Professor Ernst and three Doctors at Exeter
University  during a presentation of my findings. Professor Ernst said
that he found the whole subject fascinating and would like to see a
study conducted. Unfortunately The Dr who Professor Ernst recommended
would have nothing to do with the study. This was a major set back as
we were hoping to include many of his patients on the study.
I have written to Professor Ernst and informed him of the vascular
surgeons interest and he has written to me asking me to jointly write a
protocol for the study. When completed Professor Ernst will edit the
protocol and help to present the case for obtaining funding. Ernst is
one of the Worlds leading figures in alternative and complimentary
medicine.
The Journal for Alternative and Complimentary medicine are to publish a
feature about my discovery  either this month or next.
John Simkins formally Chairman of the Multiple Sclerosis Resource
Centre in Essex  called on Sunday to tell me that he was at a meeting
with over 200 people involved in MS. He was amazed when someone stated
publicly that raising a bed by six inches at the head end significantly
reduces the production of urine and reduces the number of times that
people go to the bathroom at night. He asked if he could give my name
and telephone number in a paper he is writing about the meeting. I of
course agreed.
I met Adrian Sanders  MP on Sunday and he has visited the message board
which is frequented by all of the people involved in our study on the
Internet. He printed out the information and is attempting to gain the
interest of the new Minister for Health. Adrian attempted to set up a
meeting with the former Health Minister Frank Dobson but was blocked by
Civil Servants and is concerned that the same Civil Servants are still
in Office. At the very least Adrian  who appeared in the Local Papers
in support of my work  expects to generate some government interest
this time and is now even more determined to push this important
discovery forward.
There is currently a tremendous amount of professional and
non-professional interest in our discovery by people all over the World
 due to the positive study results on the Internet Message Board. Thank
you Cheryl for setting this up and maintaining it in an orderly way.
Lawrence  who is now the Manager for the Multiple Sclerosis Resource
Centre is planning to visit me this month to learn more about my
research and to discuss how we could move this forward with regards to
reaching more people with multiple sclerosis. Lawrence would like to
see a controlled study set up independently of myself to see if the
results can be replicated. However I feel that this would leave me high
and dry  as usual  with zero funding  unless I can become involved in
someway.
Andrew
« Last Edit: 25/12/2008 12:12:35 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline OldDragon

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This is excellent news, Andrew.

Not been around much of late, as so busy this time of year, but can report that my oedema is still behaving itself, and I can now get my wellies, plus thick socks on and with the legs of my trews tucked into those boots easily. Not had any repeats of the phlebitis that I am prone to, either.
« Last Edit: 27/12/2008 02:48:09 by OldDragon »
Pain Promotes Growth - Suffering is Optional.

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Brilliant. Thanks for the update about your oedema problem being sorted out using Inclined Bed Therapy. (The opposite tilting of a bed to mainstream advice) Impressive also because you have been subjected to chemotherapy and the disruption this has on your system, one would anticipate some increased fluid retention. But this presents a problem for curent thinking on the cause of oedema.
The post above is from earlier research. Was placed there so that people can see just how long this research has been kept out of mainstream medicine. The sad thing is that each time we get close to conducting a controlled study. The doctors back out and do not keep their word. Same goes for the charities!

This is excellent news, Andrew.

Not been around much of late, as so busy this time of year, but can report that my oedema is still behaving itself, and I can now get my wellies, plus thick socks and the legs of my trews tucked into those boots easily. Not had any repeats of the phlebitis that I am prone to, either.
« Last Edit: 25/12/2008 12:02:58 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline OldDragon

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Damn, I didn't notice the date on that quoted post, sorry.

I should also have mentioned that my lumbar spine - the area where xrays show that I've a  chronic degenerative problem/osteoarthritis has been remarkably pain free of late. Usually, at this time of the year, that can be particularly painful - well, give me a constant dull aching sensation that can really wear one's spirits down. As things stand, I get just a bit of discomfort there if I over-do things, and also in my right hip, but that is also pretty good, too. Wish I could say the same regarding the ongoing nerve pain that seems to be lingering at the site of the last op! Despite it being nearly six months since that op, and nearly a month since the last chemo cycle, today it has been feeling as if I've an alien rodent attempting to chew its way out from under my oxter! It's a very weird sensation - especially as the surface of the skin there is still numb!
Pain Promotes Growth - Suffering is Optional.