Varicose Veins & Oedema Study Inclined Bed Therapy IBT Alternative to Surgery

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Al, thank you for posting your observations for us. Glad you are finding some pain relief from IBT too, especially with what you have recently been through regarding chemotherapy.

The nerve pain you are experiencing could be part of a healing process going on to repair the damage done by surgery in the area you mentioned.

Are the varicose veins and oedema still improving, or have they remained stable for several months?

Has anyone commented on your appearance as Chemotherapy often has an impact on general health and welbeing? Has your hair condition improved at all during chemotherapy or has Chemo prevented any regrowth?

Damn, I didn't notice the date on that quoted post, sorry.

I should also have mentioned that my lumbar spine - the area where xrays show that I've a  chronic degenerative problem/osteoarthritis has been remarkably pain free of late. Usually, at this time of the year, that can be particularly painful - well, give me a constant dull aching sensation that can really wear one's spirits down. As things stand, I get just a bit of discomfort there if I over-do things, and also in my right hip, but that is also pretty good, too. Wish I could say the same regarding the ongoing nerve pain that seems to be lingering at the site of the last op! Despite it being nearly six months since that op, and nearly a month since the last chemo cycle, today it has been feeling as if I've an alien rodent attempting to chew its way out from under my oxter! It's a very weird sensation - especially as the surface of the skin there is still numb!
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Photographs taken today of Alun's calf varicose vein which is hardly visible after 6 months of Inclined Bed Therapy.
« Last Edit: 20/01/2009 11:42:20 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Note the changes at 10 weeks in Alun's calf varicose vein. We can clearly see some darkened are where the veins are already returning to normal appearance. Also we can see dimples where varicose veins have been returned level with the skin surface. The last photograph we have seen before but it shows the remarkable improvements after 6 months of IBT. Remember no surgery or drugs have been used by Alun, who was advised by his consultant that surgery would be required in order to correct his varicose veins. Remember also that Alun was using a support / compression stocking and no longer needs to wear any compression aid.

He has also worn shorts on the beach with his family for the first time in many years.

I doubt a controlled study will be forthcoming in the foreseeable future and due to reluctance of people testing this theory and not providing us with the evidence we need to provide a convincing argument we are now considering going to the National Newspapers in order to make this known as an alternative treatment to people who face surgery which is proven to be ineffective, risky and definitely not cost effective.

Alun has experience many improvements. One being a severe pain in his knee, that has troubled him since the age of 4. At 34 the pain has largely gone.   
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Offline OldDragon

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Showed my legs - the oedema and the veins prone to phelbitis - to my doctor yesterday. He's well impressed.  [;)]

Not doing so good in other areas and have to see an orthopaedic consultant because of problems with my left shoulder and arm that seem to be related to the surgery to remove the lymph nodes. Also having ongoing problems relating to the effect of the chemo on my GI tract. That's aggravating the infernal piles... always said those were my worst VVs, Andrew!  [;D]

Pain Promotes Growth - Suffering is Optional.

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Thank you for your post. Great to get some feedback from a doctor for a change too.
The surgery was inevitably going to cause some problems with aches and pains and chemoís certainly is not going to help your digestion. Perhaps once your digestive system has chance to recover the piles may have a decent chance of improving too. But yes you did say haemorrhoids was an ongoing problem for you, and it is disappointing that these have not yet began to settle.

On a positive note, we may have another lady joining our study who has varicose veins and has hopefully taken some photographs for us. She has already mentioned that after 1 night on IBT she noticed her veins were less inflated than the previous day.

Andrew

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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2008 Dec;18(6):318-24. Epub 2008 Oct 15.
Head-up sleeping improves orthostatic tolerance in patients with syncope.
Cooper VL, Hainsworth R.
Cardiorespiratory Unit, St James's University Hospital, Leeds, UK.
OBJECTIVES: This study was designed to examine the effect of head-up sleeping as a treatment for vasovagal syncope in otherwise healthy patients. Treatment for syncope is difficult. Pharmacological treatments have potential side effects and, although other non-pharmacological treatments such as salt and fluid loading often help, in some cases they may be ineffective or unsuitable. Head-up sleeping may provide an alternative treatment. METHODS: Twelve patients had a diagnosis of vasovagal syncope based both on the history and on early pre-syncope during a test of head-up tilting and graded lower body suction. They then underwent a period of 3-4 months of sleeping with the head-end of their bed raised by 10 degrees , after which orthostatic tolerance (time to pre-syncope during tilt test) was reassessed. RESULTS: Eleven patients (92%) showed a significant improvement in orthostatic tolerance (time to pre-syncope increased by 2 minutes or more). Plasma volume was assessed in eight patients and was found to show a significant increase (P < 0.05, Wilcoxon signed-rank test). There was no significant change in either resting or tilted heart rate or blood pressure after head-up sleeping. INTERPRETATION: Head-up sleeping is a simple, non-pharmacological treatment which is effective in the majority of patients. However, it may not be tolerated by patients or bed-partners long term and whether the effects continue after cessation of treatment remains to be determined.
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Offline BenV

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How do you feel about that study Andrew?  Obviously it's good news, but...

It's clearly an indication that someone is looking into inclined beds, despite your earlier claims of it being blocked by the medical community, in fact, there are a number of reports in the same journal on similar ideas.
« Last Edit: 18/02/2009 10:34:37 by BenV »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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15 years Ben. Why has it taken so long?

I am delighted with this paper. Though I BT had already proved the point of improved orthostatic intolerance with people who have neurological conditions, including multiple sclerosis and spinal cord injury.

This paper is the first to my knowledge using prolonged inclined bed rest as a model for a study.

I am very excited to say the least. This will indeed open the floodgates for more studies to test the other parameters that have been unlocked by years of independent research. Now we need a study for multiple sclerosis and IBT, then another for spinal cord injury and IBT, and another for Parkinsonís disease and IBT, and another for cerebral palsy and IBT and not forgetting Varicose Veins, Oedema and IBT.

These are simple low cost studies that will earn many students Phdís But more importantly will improve the lives of people with these conditions.

A great deal more has been happening on the Inclined Bed Therapy Front.

It was blocked Ben. All I needed was a bigger plunger!
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Offline BenV

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Quote
It was blocked Ben. All I needed was a bigger plunger!

But you had nothing to do with this, and even in a few minutes looking at the same journal I found papers on "head up sleep" going back to 1992.  That's well over your fifteen years.  In all this time, you hadn't done the research to notice that others were researching something similar, yet you have consistently claimed that research on titled beds has been blocked.  You were wrong.

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Of course I did Ben

The methods used were often short term and a more accute angle. Lots and lots of papers. The difference with this paper is that it is long term use of inclined bed over 4 months.

The first papers were found at the local hospital database, which I was allowed to use.

Quote
It was blocked Ben. All I needed was a bigger plunger!

But you had nothing to do with this, and even in a few minutes looking at the same journal I found papers on "head up sleep" going back to 1992.  That's well over your fifteen years.  In all this time, you hadn't done the research to notice that others were researching something similar, yet you have consistently claimed that research on titled beds has been blocked.  You were wrong.
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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I also mentioned the Ancient Egyptians were using IBT over 4 thousand years ago!
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Offline BenV

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Of course I did Ben

My apologies Andrew, I didn't realise you had been involved in the study.  In what capacity, may I ask?

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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My apologies Ben

Of course I did was refering to wading through moutains of research papers of many years and you saying I had failed to spot them :) Sorry for confusion
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Offline BenV

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Fair enough! My misunderstanding...

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Offline alun006

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Hi Andrew

I have been doing i.b.t for approx 8 month now.

I have benefitted as you can see on the photos i have submitted, however it has took me quiet a while to get used to new formed muscle mass i have been able to gain on this therapy.

For many years, I have never experienced being able to use my muscles on my bottom half and noticed with in weeks of doing i.b.t my legs muscles looking different and i was able to move them as i had not been able to before.

I had not increased my daily exercise and was finding it hard to understand the reason for such a change.

With my knee pain improvement, i was able to look at increasing my exercise with ease. But with the change in the way my muscles were working came frustration as i started to pull muscles up that i didn't relise that i could.  This has taken a while to get used to, and would sometimes give me pain until i relised i was actually doing this myself. [:o]

The therapy is giving me great benefits, and i thankyou for sharing your knowledge with the world.

Thankyou
alun006
« Last Edit: 01/03/2009 20:22:01 by alun006 »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Thank you Alun. This is a very important observation and one that has been reported by many people using Inclined Bed Therapy.

Your ability to connect with and move muscles you could not control prior to IBT is something my wife and I noticed. Especially the abillity to tense these muscles to the point where they hurt as you have mentioned was fascinating for us too.

But more to the point, where muscular atrophy has taken place due to neurological problems, the muscles respond and become stronger without the exercise one would normally attribute to muscle building. This was noticed on John and Julian, both who sustained complete spinal cord injury, yet their muscles were observed to firm up along with many other improvements from IBT.

But non more so than the 12 year old girl with cerebralpalsy who had not walked since birth and has never developed strong muscles in her legs until her bed was tilted. Her mother called me to say the bed was being placed horizontal after she had walked. I was astonished that she could want to do this after what she and her family had observed with their daughter. When I asked why, she said that her daughters leg and arm muscles were looking far too masculine. Anyway, they did put her bed down but fortunately only for a week or so because the girl was quickly reverting back to her pre IBT condition.

I have not heard from the parents or the girl for many years but will try to make contact and get some more feedback from them.

Great post Alun thank you for all your help. It's a pitty more people reading this will not provide us with a window into their own observations using IBT for varicose veins and Oedema.
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Compression stockings find used by astronauts to help prevent varicose veins that prolonged exposure to microgravity causes.

Ironically flat bedrest, the very thing we are avoiding using IBT has also been used as a model for inducing the same harmful effects that micro gravity
causes in the body of healthy astronauts.

Collection: Powerhouse Museum
97/3/3 Compression gaiters, elasticised nylon/metal, worn by Vladimir Titov, USSR, 1988
Description
Compression gaiters, elasticised nylon/metal, worn by Vladimir Titov, USSR, 1983.
A pair of orange elasticised nylon compression gaiters, used to alleviate problems with varicose veins, to which cosmonauts are susceptible as a result of prolonged periods of weightlesness. Each compression gaiter is made of elasticised orange nylon, with a side metal zipper running 3/4 the length of the gaiter. There are adjustable laces (white in one and grey in the other) to improve fit and decrease or increase pressure on the leg. Tapered to fit the shape of the leg, being narrower at the ankle and broadening up the calf. Stretch-stitching around the laces and zips in navy coloured thread.
Production notes
The actual designer is unknown, but it was presumably a doctor or medical technician at one of the medical research facilities associated with the Soviet space program, such as the Institute for Bio-Medical Problems. The gaiters were designed to assist in the alleviation of a specific medical problem, the development of varicose veins in the legs during prolonged periods of weightlessness. Their elastic nature puts pressure on the legs, simulating the effects of gravity and thus preventing swelling of the leg veins. The adjustable lacings allow the gaiters to be 'customised' for the best fit and also provide the capability to vary the pressure on the leg as required.
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Interesting observation.
Varicose veins become less likely to stretch over time using IBT. This is what they remain flat for longer periods as the months of avoiding flat bed rest pass. Unlike a pre-stretched balloon, something you are an expert with :) The vein is living tissue so just like when a ligament or tendon is overstretched, resting can enable these to recover their former state. This must also apply to a living vein. The longer it remains flat the longer it will stay flat.

This must be a result of as you say a strengthening of the cellular structure of the vein.

Pressing on a swollen vein would force the extra blood back under pressure. Fluids are relatively incompressible so the pressure you apply in one place will have to increase the pressure in another place. In your case it would be pressing on nerves.

When the blood is no longer filling a swollen vein there is less pressure transferred to the nerves when you press the same area.


Hi Andrew

Another observation,i have noticed has been a difference in the way the veins feel.

Example, i have been treating a small area of ringworm on the top of my calf vein.  When  i first started treating it, i always felt that when i rubbed the cream in the vein it would feel tender after i had pressed on it.

Now, when i go to do the same thing. I can press on the same area with the same pressure and it is not tender as it was before.

Why would this be happening?
Is it because the vein is strenthening?

alun

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Offline link7881

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I really can't believe that this can lessen the swelling of varicose veins? I have varicose veins on both of my legs. I undergone sclerotherapy for 3 weeks and saw my varicose veins subsides, but the procedure is too painful for me!!! The pain is so tremendous. Then my doctor said that we will try a laser therapy for weeks and see what will happen. I am glad that the swelling is gone. But I'm still under treatment. This research is great. [:)]

mod edit - spammy link removed
« Last Edit: 12/03/2009 08:55:22 by BenV »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Hi

It does not matter whether you believe it or not. This is after all a science forum and not a belief based forum. The therapy is simple, does not cost anything and is safe. So all you have to do to prove it one way or another is take some photographs of your varicose veins, tilt your bed to a five degree angle and take some more photographs of the same veins in 4 weeks time. Compare them and report back your findings.

Far safer than injecting synthetic foam into your veins or closing veins off by other means :)

Please come back and let us know what you find.

Regards

Andrew
« Last Edit: 12/03/2009 09:09:50 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline BenV

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I think he may have just been here to spam us, Andrew.  I may be wrong, and he may come back, but the spam link in his signiture is now blacklisted, so he won't be able to post with spammy links anymore.  Time will tell if he returns...

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Alun, thanks for this post. It's a pity that the doctors reading this thread do not have the observational skills that your son has and more to the point, the decency to admit what we have shown here on this science forum to be a scientific repeatable truth.

One would have expected to see people crawling all over these threads and asking questions, yet how many have chosen to ignore these facts?

What should have happened, is that our hospitals and universities should be investigating the possibilities of this research and realise that this simple paradigm has the potential to greatly reduce the NHS outgoings.

The NHS and the private Health Care Industry could use the money spent on unnecessary vascular surgery to the tune of 600 million pounds every year and a further 600 million pounds on complications arising from ulceration and infection, not to mention that most of the surgery for varicose veins is destined to be repeated time and time again with more pain and more risk of complications and infections, when simply tilting the bed not only reduces the swelling an oedema but over time has been shown to strengthen the former varicose veins.

But letís remember, all we have done here is avoided a flat bed to resolve these problems. And that a flat bed is the basis for our health care system! So does this not tell us anything about the causes of oedema and varicose veins? Yes it does!

It tells us that the flat bed model on which our health service relies upon might not be the safe haven for recovery it is purported to be.

It tells us also that the literature on which our health service is founded is deeply flawed. For example, it is currently believed that sleeping on an incline will have the opposite affect on the varicose veins and oedema! Yet as we have seen on this thread it clearly does not!

Itís about time Inclined Bed Therapy is put into practice for many medical conditions.

Recently a paper has been published by Professor Zamboni and Associates relating to chronic venous insufficiency in the cerebral and jugular veins of 100% of patients with multiple sclerosis and no patients have this problem in the control group. Or simplified, Chronic venous insufficiencies are internal swollen / kinked / twisted / varicose veins, and his paper clearly shows this problem by providing x ray plates.

Zamboni stands on the shoulders of giants and the shoulder he stands on are those of  Doctor Franz Schelling from Austria, who began shouting that MS was a circulatory problem rather than a neurological one a long time ago and for his brave stance in defence of what now is proved to be a truth, he almost lost his licence to practice for trying to help people to see a venous anomaly in MS patients. Schelling did not have the technology at the time he first brought this to our attention. Now thanks to huge advances in Doppler technology we have an opportunity to see this circulation problem clearly. Back flow and pressure fluctuations in the bloodstream are thought to be a major contributing factor in the dame to myelin and lesions in the spine and brain of people with ms.

Which brings me back to IBT.

Initially varicose veins and oedema improvements along with a general feeling of well-being and increases in energy and strength were the first indicators when beds were initially tilted. The improvements in varicose veins meant that the pressure inside the veins had been reduced and that oedema was flowing from the skin back into the venous return to the heart, down the arteries and out through the bladder via the filtration from the kidneys. The opposite to what must have been taking place to cause varicose veins and oedema.

Had it not been for my own mother reporting some improvements in what appeared to be a neurological problem resulting in the loss of movement to her foot and ankle and the loss of sensation in the same leg, it may have taken me longer to realise the full implications and possibilities for IBT.

When my mother called me to let me know she had improvements in varicose veins and oedema and a return of function in her foot, ankle and toes, followed weeks later by recovery in sensitivity in the same leg. I realised that the nervous system was benefiting from the same remarkable improvements in circulation and that gravity was indeed a vital component in maintaining our circulation. Being a lateral thinker it is difficult to remain focused on one specific problem and it was not long before I was searching for a neurological condition to test my hypothesis that a density flow and return system much the same as a pump free domestic hot water system driven  not so much by heat but by evaporation and the resulting solute concentration was indeed playing a vital roll by releasing pulses of salts into the arteries so that they could flow down to an exit point and in doing so provide a boost to the circulation.

The late Professor H. T. Hammel. Who was a brilliant scientist and who had a fascination for how trees raise water to their leaves, was intrigued by this and added he had observed pulsatile flow arriving at the kidneys and had an interest in how dissolved colloids alter the pressure inside the vessels, and had published some papers attacking the literatures understanding of osmosis stating it was COMPLETELY WRONG!

Dean Falk and Michel Cabanac, both working on circulation in the brain, Falks paper is titled braindance, and her interest in is in the evolution of the location of holes in human skulls and how standing upright has moved their locations to the top of the skull instead of at the back of the skull as is the case with primates.  Cabanac who I have mentioned before used a Doppler to show blood flow reversing back through the brain due to hyperthermia from exercise, yet no valves are in place to account for this change in blood flow direction. Yet blood flow was shown to be able to alter itís direction against the normal pressure of the heart. I put it to Michel that a density change must be taking place due to the huge increases in evaporation from the exercise regimen. And that this would give us an explanation for how this blood flow can reverse under heat stress. He has asked me to write a letter in defence of his paper.

Many people with ms have experienced huge improvements in symptoms from tilting their beds. Someone on this forum stated that these two conditions were unrelated. It now turns out that they are both closely related and that ms is more than likely to be due to a circulation problem.
Ironically my first paper on ms was titled MS is not a disease! The paper went on to explain that keeping the circulation flowing by avoiding postural interference, namely flat bed rest and poor sitting posture we could address the mechanical problems and provide some long term benefits for those who have ms.

11 years of IBT for a lady in the US has provided her with 11 years of ms symptom free. She has only experienced a few episodes of optic neuritis in 11 years! She is not alone, there are more people who are experiencing these remarkable improvements.

How common is venous insufficiency in people with ms?
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/neuro/archive/4277.html
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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 From Oldbiker1.

 

...who no longer has a problem with varicose veins and night time urination frequency, which was 3-4 times a night and now is 0-1 times a night and quite normal for most people.

 A troublesome night time cough has also completely resolved since he tilted his bed.

 This is what Oldbiker1 has said in emails

Follow up emails from Oldbiker1.
03 April 2009
I was telling a lady about it this afternoon --  she never heard of it, of course, and was quite interested.  She said she would look up "inclined bed therapy" on Google ... so, little by little -- people will discover this very important "cure" for what ails you...!

 I'm going to check back with her next week to see what happened.  I think follow-up is important (which I haven't been doing)... going to start writing down these peoples names and phone numbers... then call back for their reports. 

 
------------------------------------------
 
02 April 2009
 Hi Andrew -- just want to keep in touch.  I promote IBT whenever I see an "opening" -- like today at a coffee shop .. these older people were talking about all their health problems, so I drew a picture of a bed at the five degree angle and gave it to them along with a sales pitch.  They were interested and said they would try it.

 I haven't had the time to follow through on that "sleep study" I was going to do -- but, my cousin (the MD) is interested in the concept and said he would help me with that project whenever I get to it.  I'm still promoting this cure whenever I can.

 Was kind of fun to see my name in print: http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/incline-bed-therapy.html.  I'm still sleeping like a log -- in fact, I quite often sleep straight through -- don't even get up once for the bathroom (compared to 3-4 times a night before IBT).  Also, don't cough at night and varicose veins are gone now ... sorry I didn't take pictures last summer.  but, it works. I guess my skin is improving -- people tell me that I look "good" --- maybe that's because of the exercise?  But, I'm sure it's a benefit of the sleeping position.

 So, if we end up there this fall, I'll have plenty of time to get to Devon and meet with you to discuss the many benefits of IBT.  Also, I would take that time to write some kind of a promotional booklet -- will have time to assemble all the data and put it together in a publication... this concept needs a lot of exposure -- 99.9% of the people out there don't know about it ... there's a free cure sitting there waiting to be used ... if they only knew...! 

 15 January 2009

Hi Andrew -  I haven't been promoting the bed position lately, except if the subject comes up in conversation.

I'm at 6" high now -- will stay there... wife doesn't like it any higher (I tried a little higher).  Continue to sleep well -- I get up once (instead of 2-4 times) after about six hours. I made another change that seems to have a benefit to the quality of sleep -- have the top of my head pointing south (Indian Vastu teaching).  Now I sleep like a rock -- don't wake up at all until time for the toilet.  And I'm sure there are other beneficial things going on.

got to keep going here...


Progress  Sep 26, 2008

Hi Andrew,

Just wanted to give you an update. I'm in Ellicott City, Maryland this week visiting with my daughter and family. Her husband is an MD working in Baltimore -- he has a teaching position... working with the new doctors.

My daughter has problems with acid reflux, so I managed to convince the doc that we should raise the bed ... so I raised the head by 3 inches yesterday -- that's a start. Over time he will experience the benefit and I'm hoping will slowing introduce this concept wherever he can. On my next trip I'm going to take it up to six inches (assuming he's OK with it).

My daughter from London is also visiting and her husband was here for a week. I put her bed at three inches and her husband's snoring volume subsided considerably while he was here (in California last week).

I'm continuing to enjoy the benefits -- no coughing at night and better quality sleep. I also noticed something unusual... my distance vision is improving slightly (without glasses). It's not perfect, but I see better without the glasses than with them. 

 
« Last Edit: 04/04/2009 10:11:25 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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More photographs from Alun showing large varicose vein on his calf muscle has returned to normal appearance and no longer causes discomfort and pain.

9 months of avoiding a flat bed is all that was required to resolve the internal pressure problem that caused the veins to bulge. Surgery does not address the underlying causes of varicose veins, is expensive, risky and destined to require further surgery as other veins take the extra blood volume that is diverted when surgery closes a varicose vein.
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Offline geordiejulie

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Hi Andrew

It's been awhile since I added a post but to be honest the last few months have been full of ups and downs.  Mainly due to the life changing effect the IBT has had on Alun.  I am truly amazed at the difference that has occurred in his leg health.  His varicose veins as you had predicted have receded so that they are barely visible.  I cannot understand why more money is not being allocated to this study which would save the NHS literally millions of pounds, where is the logic in that! 

The leg pains my husband has had over the years have at times reduced him to tears and after endless examinations and procedures nothing has ever been diagnosed, we literally could not go shopping together as it was guaranteed that his legs would ache not with the varicose veins but around the knee.  We could not enjoy any alcoholic beverages as the same thing would occur.  I am very happy to report that both of these have almost been eradicated. I am a happy woman! 
I have to stress that these changes have not occurred overnight but over a matter of months but the results can only speak for themselves we have nothing to gain by glorifying this.

As for myself I recently reported changes to my menstrual cycle which to be honest is still a little irregular.

An observation i did make though was that whilst having the dreaded 'diarrhea and sickness' bug last year alun slept on the incline whilst myself and the children who were unable to bear the atrocious noise from upstairs slept downstairs.  Whilst aluns bug lasted a matter of around 3 - 4 hours, my bug dragged on for almost 36 hours.  I had not noticed particularly before this some subtle changes that had happened either.  Whilst stopping down at my mothers for a night or two i had to sleep on a flat bed and i have to tell you i could not have predicted missing that incline so much.  I was literally chilled to the bone! It didn't matter what i did i could not warm myself up and I woke up in agony.  When i got back home and back into that bed it was like being wrapped up i a blanket and cuddled!  It did take a few days for the effect on my back to wear off. This is a change i would not have acknowledged before this. 

In general my back has improved one heck of a lot.  I occasionally wake up with it aching but honestly this is far far less than before and doesn't last for days as before, more like hours.  My hip honestly rarely hurts now.  I have been able to walk longer distances and this is absolutely brilliant for me and this was something that worried me.

Another thing I did experience was for about a month after Christmas, so having been on the incline for about 4 months, i experienced quite a lot of knee pain.   The knee pain occurred in my left knee and strangely enough this is the side that my hip always gave me the pain.  I am happy to say that this is something that has subsided.

I do wake up some mornings with pain on the outside edge of my left foot although this does subside after awhile as well. 

Oh and good news for the ladies, i can definitely see a huge difference in the cellulite to my legs and bottom and there aren't many cures for that!  Whether this is helped by the amount of fluid i now drink or the fact that the muscle tone is improved i am not too sure but it has happened.  No complaints here.

When in a flat bed i always slept on my left side or on my stomach and interestingly i can sleep on neither now. I can now only sleep on my right side or my back. 

All in all, i would say that although i had doubts and reservations about the simplicity of IBT and the effects that it could have, I can only give positive comments as I can only comment on what I see and feel.

With the varicose veins, i cant understand why anyone would actually resort to surgery or invasive chemicals to reduce them when the 9 months alun has spent on IBT have proved that this works. Full Stop.

Alun and I have two children, our eldest son suffers from asthma, eczema and hayfever and this does cause him a few problems.  The youngest has a very mild form of cerebral palsy, which affects him physically in that he does struggle with P.E and gross motor movements although this is far improved from when he was a small child, mainly due to his determination.

Our eldest sons asthma has been worse lately and at times unpredictable.  On a recent trip to High Force which is a massive waterfall, our son was fine whilst walking down to the waterfall but when at the foot of this his asthma came on quite severely which was worrying to us proving the effect of humidity on asthma and the body.  It literally drained him.  On another occasion we went to Hamsterly forrest we were again confronted with this sudden onset of his asthma just as it started to rain.

The next plan for us is to put the children on an incline and note what happens there and not only are we looking forward to that but so are the children.

I honestly don't think that we could go back to a flat bed now.

I will keep noting any changes as regular as I can.

I cant really thank you enough and really hope that things change and people can just sit up and realise what you are doing here.

I think in the near future you will be repeating those little words 'I told you so!' quite a lot Andrew....




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Offline geordiejulie

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RD

I have to say you are as determined to disprove Andrews theory as he is to prove it. That makes you as bad as each other. 

I have read your previous 'titter tatter' with Andrew with interest and fair to say that I had noticed the spots on Aluns legs before this time and wondered what could be causing them.  However this rash and discolouration occured as the veins went down and has since cleared, it could also have been caused by an allergic reaction to some mustard seeds he was using as an alternative therapy at the time to clear up what we thought was ringworm.  The ring worm which has been since diagnosed as eczema, something which both myself and eldest son have a touch of(along with the usual hayfever and asthma)and has since cleared up with some emuvate. 

Alun has also for the record been examined by a top vascular surgeon who did not seem to pick up on any signs of vasculitis and I must point out that this surgeon is very highly respected and I would definately put my life in his hands. 

I really have nothing to gain by fighting Andrews corner and had initially been very sceptical, but have seen this massive improvement with my own eyes.

The leg pains you tie in with the vasculitis have been occuring since Alun was a small baby, before he could walk according to his mum and correct me if Im wrong but I would not have thought of vasculitis being apparent at this tender age.  Also my youngest son has had the same leg pains since being a toddler as well, he has healthy legs, so does this mean that he has vasculitis as well.
I have to say I am always up to comment because I see science as never being exact.  It is something that should always be looked at inside and outside of the box. 

I have previously also watched my grandma suffer from poor circulation conditions including gangrene and would not ever hesitate to rush Alun to a doctor or consultant if I was unduly worried.

So thanks for you advice but for now I am going to ride this one out.

I suppose in a nut shell people would have probably poo pooed the idea of mould being used as an effective antibiotic at one point?

Best regards

Julie

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Offline Av

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i was going thru this forum and found it to be really interesting...was wondering where i,d be able to get the details of this IBT experiment thats been going on??plus id wanna kno if alun's varicosities reappeared in the evening

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Offline Av

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sorry...kind of meant the same thing...

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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AV  most of the information you need is in this thread. You can also google "inclined bed therapy" or "andrew k fletcher" to learn more about it, but it is very simple to take part and there are no costs involved.

It would be a great help if you could return to give some updates on what you are experiencing using IBT.

Varicosities is also used to include more than one varicose vein. though rarely used, varicose veins is more commonly used. So both of you were right :)

Mind if I ask why you are interested in IBT and varicose veins?

Andrew

Follow the links on my posts to more information in this thread.



sorry...kind of meant the same thing...

« Last Edit: 26/04/2009 01:29:41 by Andrew K Fletcher »
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Av

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sure you can..its just that from what i knew abt varicose veins is that there is a defect in the vein valves which prevent the backflow of blood from the deep veins to the superficial veins leading to pooling of blood in the superficial leg veins which causes them to become the way they do...the fact that just by inclining the bed at night can lead to the veins becoming normal and remaining so or rather as alun said becoming better as the day progressed was kind of difficult for me to reason..but since he's got his vv improving means that it is working though kind of difficult to think how

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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AV varicose veins cannot be caused by defective valves in Alun's and many more cases at least. Because their valves would still be as defective if this were the case and they would not return to normal veins over time. The only logical conclusion is that the pressure inside the vein that was causing them to dilate and twist has been addressed by tilting the bed. This is further backed up by the migration of oedema from the skin and surrounding tissue back into the venous return and excreted in the urine via renal filtration as should be the case in a person unaffected by oedema.

T get a clear picture of my reasoning for tilting a bed, look at the video experiments on Youtube, showing water rising up a 6 mil bore nylon tube to 24 metres, also a scaled down experiment shows this effect clearer. This vertical circulation is driven by introducing a tiny amount of denser minerals that are dissolved in 10 mils of salt solution (in the larger experiment) Less solute will also cause the same circulation!

Here we have a downward flow which contains the salt solution and represents the phloem in the tree but also represents the arterial flow in the human body, the salts added to the arteries at an elevated pint, not by introducing them as in the experiment but by the evaporation from exhaling and evaporative loss from the skin and eyes. It is impossible for evaporation to take place from a fluid that contains solutes like the blood, cerebrospinal fluid, tissue fluid and the fluid that flows onto the surface of the lungs and respiratory tract. Tears from the eyes and sweat from the skin illustrate this concentrating effect, so do nasal and oral mucous / secretions.

In the case of the lungs, salts and sugars are inevitably concentrated by evaporation and the resulting density changes will cause the fluids to migrate back through the lining of the lungs and into the arterial circulation, forcing more dilute fluids to flow onto the surface ready fro the next exhale.

This would release pulses of salts into the arteries and providing we are aligned to the direction of gravity in relation to the predominantly vertically placed veins and arteries, these salts will assist the circulation introducing a positive pulsatile pressure flow in the artery and at the same time cause a dragging effect on all of the molecules in the blood providing a boost for the return flow in the veins. It is this boost venous return flow boost that provides us with an understanding of Starlings law of the heart.

Increased venous return was demonstrated by elevating a vessel containing blood linked to the heart to show how an increase in venous return to the heart produces a greater output from the heart. The body however does not have a vessel connected to it with a length of tubing to increase the venous return. What it does have however is an ability to release solutes down the artery to induce a slight increase in arterial pressure and a compensating decrease in venous pressure that pulls more blood back to the heart caused by the dragging effect the solutes have in the descending arterial flow.

Fir this to be correct, density changes in urine output would need to be related to inclined bed posture, showing a moderate increase in urine density.

But the opposite effect should take place if we sleep horizontally showing a moderate comparative decrease in the density of the solutes found in the urine. A simple hydrometer test provided the evidence for this. But the most important reading was when my wife and I slept head down for several days. Here the urine output went down to a near water density. So the body was either storing the solutes within the blood, muscle, tissue and bones or the uptake from the gut had been interrupted.

I think it was a combination of both, as my wife and I both ended up with diarrhoea, indicative of more fluids passing through the bowls.

Further research revealed that head down sleeping was capable of causing weight loss and was I believe used with the late actor Marlon Brando. However, as mentioned earlier in this thread, head down sleeping is going to cause a lot more problems than weight loss over time. NASA have been proving this for many years and still are repeating these same postural experiments offering large sums of money to youngsters to sleep head down to see what happens to their physiology and with good reason, as head down tilt produces a rapid ageing / degenerative process on normally healthy people.

So to sum up, tilting the bed correctly (IBT) method alters the pressures inside the predominantly vertical vessels by allowing gravity to push and pull on dissolved solutes flowing in the blood, lymph, cerebrospinal fluid and tissue fluids.

Andrew K Fletcher
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Xenity

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Hello Andrew and everyone else at this forum.

Congrats for this great place to inform and share knowledge.

This is my first message here, and I want ot apologize in advance if my english is not good enough, my mother tongue is not english.

I had esclerotherapy done on my legs last Thursday.
I do not have severe varicose veins, but during my pregnancy I had a long flight (16 hours) that cause me a thrombosis in my right calf.
After that I have been soffering some discomfort in the area, specially during hot weather.
The first doctor's diagnose, after checking out my blood circulation, was a grade I of venous insuficiency (sorry I do not know what's the right translation of this).
Just something that could evolve in time to a major problem or bigger varicose veins.
According to his words nothing to really be afraid off. He said they were more an aesthetical problem than a health problem at this point. I decided not to touch them if the esclerotherapy would not guarantee the discomfort get better.

Few months later I went to visit another doc and who told me the best way to prevent them to grow bigger and to get worse was to do esclerotherapy or laser. He said my condition would not get better by doing the esclerotherapy but I would retard the evolution of the decease or even stop it if, eventually, i keep checking on them and eliminate the ones that appear as soon as I notice them. He did not only inject the area I had the discomfort on due to my thrombosys but other areas I had no discomfort at all or noticed any enlargen varicose veins. He kept repeating he had "the expert eye" and could see a problem coming soon.

Well, this was not only expensive but an experience I do not want to repeat if there is a way to avoid it.

Right now I am wearing compression stockings wich I am supposed to wear at least for a week based on his post-esclerotherapy suggestions.

I still have some blueish due to the injectionss and I really want to try IBT as soon as possible but I have a few questions I would like you to answer if possible.

1st. Should I wait until my legs are totally healed from the bruises I have to start IBT?

2nd. Is there any negative side effect or uncompatibility if I use IBT after having some veins esclerosed?

3rd. Doc told me the healing would speed up proportionally to the time I use this compression stockings. If instead wearing them for 7 days I wear them for 20 my legs will recover faster. Is ITB advised to use with any compression garment or not?

I apologize in advance, because I have not read the whole thread and probably many of my questions here have been answered.
As I said on the beggining of my post my english is not as good as I would like it to be and sometimes is kind of difficult to fully understand everything.

Thanks in advance for your time and for your great work.






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Offline daryl l

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hi andrew and everyone else on the forum,

im 34 and last year discovered a varicose vein on my right leg, it protrudes around the underside of my ankle, slightly above my ankle and then there is a gap of about 4" before it starts protruding on the inside of my lower leg (this is around 5" long and finishes just inline with the bottom of my knee) i will obviously try and put pictures up tonight to clarify!!

i am so pleased to have found this forum as i am genuinely petrified of surgery and anything i can do to try and cure this problem will be of great help

just a couple of questions for you if you don't mind?

1,the doctor advised that during the day i wear a compression stocking as i do some lifting with my job on occasion, does this still stand??

2,as of last night i inclined the bed by 6" at the head end and found that on waking up this morning my legs felt heavy and the vein was visible right from the off! could this be because the vein pools at the bottom of my foot  around my ankle and if so can inclining make it worse?

many thanks on your fantastic work and i shall update my progress as best i can 

« Last Edit: 19/05/2009 09:23:19 by daryl l »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Hi Daryl.

Compression stockings are going to shift the pressure problem to other veins, pretty obvious really. Alun who has provided us with some amazing photographs no longer requires compression stockings and enjoys wearing shorts in the summer. The calf muscle VV has returned to a normal looking vein.

By shifting the pressure problem to other areas using a compression stocking, you may experience haemorrhoids and even a bulge in the groin termed as a blow out. Think of squeezing a balloon, as you compress it the rest of the balloon expands.

Initially there will be some changes to the way your veins behave as the circulation improves. It is around 4 weeks that improvements should become more obvious, so donít be discouraged by the minor changes you are observing in your ankles.

Do not cross your legs when sitting and do not sit with your knees higher than your seat so use an extra cushion to raise your bottom up higher or at least level with your knees.

Also try leaving the compression stockings off when you feel comfortable to do so.

Examine your veins before you get out of bed and while you are laying on the incline, best achieved by asking a partner or parent to take a photograph while you are laying on the incline. See alun's photographs while on the incline.

And please take some photographs of your veins for comparison later.

Do you have and oedema (fluid retention problem)?

How did you find sleeping on the incline, could you notice a significant difference?

Thank you for joining the study.

Andrew
« Last Edit: 19/05/2009 11:23:23 by Andrew K Fletcher »
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline BenV

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Andrew

I know you have confidence in this, and that you would like to collect more evidence, but it is not appropriate for you to be advising people to ignore their doctor's advice.  Especially considering the tiny amount of information you have been given.

You know very little about this person's situation, so I think it's highly irresponsible of you to tell them to ignore medical advice.

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Offline Xenity

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Andrew,

I think you have missed my previous message. Maybe because Daryl sent a message similar to mine right after I posted.
I am decided to try the inclined bed therapy and some of my questions have been answered already by your post to Daryl. However I'd still like to know if, based on others experience or in your own data it is too soon for me to start after having esclerotherapy done last thursday.

BenV
I cannot speak by others, but regarding myself I consider that I have read enough  or had enough transparent information to decide what to do with my health and life. I appreciate your concern, but in no case Andrew claims to be a doctor and I am taking his advices as something to consider, to think about and, finally, if I go for it, to try on my own risk.
Exactly what I have done by visiting a doctor.
I think we are all responsible to take our own decissions and to be consequent with the results of them.

Someone who conduces an study about IBT with his own resorces and asks no money or any other compensation than a follow up from people gives me much  more trust than some other people out there called "professionals" that gave me his medical advice and charged an enormous amount of money to, somehow, and temporarely, fix the problem that I had and the ones I did not have yet, of course charging me for both. This is exactly what has happened to me recently. I totally feel like a lab rat.

Believe me, if IBT or any other alternative remedy  that I try do not work for me I am not going to claim to be mislead from anyone else but myself. Information is the key and I think, nowadays, we have tons of it to do a good research, contrast opinions and finally decide what to do.

Thanks.


« Last Edit: 19/05/2009 12:21:08 by Xenity »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Hello and welcome to Nakedscientists.
Wish you had found us sooner as you may well have avoided the surgery procedures and itís inherent risks.
See comments on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbZrCQi7Fag
Thrombosis has resolved using Inclined therapy and is thought to be a result of the circulation improvements assisting the removal of the blockages. My wifeís mother was the first to report this, asking me where the huge hard mass on her leg that had been with her for years could have gone. Worth monitoring this.
Side effects reported are muscular aches, like you would expect from exercise. Stiff neck with a number of people usually lasting a few days and even a few weeks for some as the spine is stretched due to the traction of sleeping inclined.
The blood that flowed down the closed veins must be re-routed and Inclined therapy can greatly assist this process. Bruising should vanish more quickly using I.T.
I would imagine using a heavy compression stocking after sclerotherapy will assist in the closing of the veins. This is logical, so in order to prevent the improvements in circulation associate with using I.T from undoing the sclerotherapy waiting for the veins to close completely is advisable.
I cannot help feeling concerned that sclerotherapy has been used close to a deep vein thrombosis and not sure that this should have been performed with the knowledge that you have a more serious circulation problem than simply varicose veins. A compression stocking may cause this to worsen, although it is advised to use a graduated compression stocking for two years after developing a blood clot / thrombosis.
Thinking abut how this could work, it might be that the restriction on the veins due to the applied pressure could increase the through-flow of blood, a bit like putting your finger over a hosepipe accelerates the outflow of water. I think this can be achieved and indeed has been achieved using I.T without the compression stocking, though the choices you make are ultimately your own.
You should consult your doctor about I.T and about your thrombosis and be especially vigilant with regards to monitoring your skin appearance following sclerotherapy.
Andrew




Sclerotherapy advice: http://esclerotherapy.com/
Risks of Sclerotherapy
All surgery brings risk including Sclerotherapy. A good candidate for Sclerotherapy is in good overall health and has the psychological stability to deal with the recovery period. There is often some post-op pain or discomfort, temporary bruising and swelling, some restriction on activity, and some work-time lost.
recovery is straightforward when you get a Sclerotherapy if you follow doctorís orders
Your cosmetic surgeon will give you written instructions for how to care for yourself after a Sclerotherapy. Thereíll be such things as:
∑   Medications for pain or infection prevention
∑   Creams or lotions Ė to promote healing
∑   Special garments Ė to give support
∑   Wound care procedures
∑   Bedrest Ė for a short time only, and not for all Sclerotherapy procedures
∑   Gradually increased activity Ė to gradually rebuild strength and promote circulation without endangering wound healing
Thereíll be some follow-up appointments to monitor your Sclerotherapy recovery, so be sure and keep them. With careful self-care and compliance with the plastic surgeonís advice, most people have a complete Sclerotherapy recovery and a happy outcome.
Post-Op Complications Sometimes Happen
Serious complications after a Sclerotherapy are rare, but if they do happen, you should notify your plastic surgeon immediately. Things to watch for after a Sclerotherapy are:
∑   Sudden extra bleeding.
∑   A feverish temperature Ė this can indicate infection.
∑   Discoloration around the treated area, especially greenish or yellowish Ė another sign of infection and a sign that local blood circulation is perhaps impaired
∑   Increased pain Ė this usually accompanies infection
∑   Increased numbness, tingling or prickling Ė some of this may be expected, but notify your cosmetic surgeon if it seems to persist or increase. It could indicate nerve injury.
∑   Increased swelling (beyond what may be predicted by your plastic surgeon after your Sclerotherapy procedure) Ė could be a haematoma forming (a pooling of blood).
A minor haematoma can be drained with a needle, but if itís left untreated, can lead to infection and even necrosis (death) of the skin.
A major haematoma, if it occurs at all, will show up in the first 12 hours or so post-op and is a medical emergency. Youíll notice pain, swelling and general agitation. Be sure and report this immediately to your plastic surgeon. Hematomas can turn into blood clots, which can then break free and circulate in the blood. This is life-threatening, but rarely happens.
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Andrew

I know you have confidence in this, and that you would like to collect more evidence, but it is not appropriate for you to be advising people to ignore their doctor's advice.  Especially considering the tiny amount of information you have been given.

You know very little about this person's situation, so I think it's highly irresponsible of you to tell them to ignore medical advice.


Ben, not advising people to ignore their doctors advice, just advising that Daryl may be able to avoid using a support stocking when the effects of Inclined Therapy become apparent as they did with Alun, who no longer requires the use of a support / compression stocking.
See the MSRC report titled Raised Bed Survey to see that 6 people out of ten people with ms reported improvements in varicose veins and oedema. It is also worth remembering that not all people with ms have varicose veins and indeed not all of the ten people interviewed had varicose veins but all that did had experienced huge improvements. And some of the partners of the participants who shared the same inclined sleep experienced improvements in varicose veins.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=3886.25
« Last Edit: 19/05/2009 12:54:37 by Andrew K Fletcher »
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Xenity

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Thanks Andrew for your reply.

I think I will make sure I am fully recovered from my esclerotherapy prior to any attempt to IBT for the moment.
My doc told me to go back on fall to check the evolution on my legs and see if another sclerotherapy session is needed.
As I want to avoid further esclerotherapy sessions it might be the right moment to start IBT if everything is fine.

Will keep you posted if anything changes.

Thanks again for your help.


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Offline daryl l

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hi andrew thanks for the reply,
the first night on the incline seemed slightly strange, after about twenty minutes i got some tingling in my legs and then must of nodded of! and on waking this morning i found my legs slightly heavier than normal which eased after ten minutes of walking about, the only thing to note was that both i and my girlfriend found we had slid down the bed in the night  [;D]

as for the stocking, i will cease wearing it as of today and see how it goes!!

this is my ankle

and this is of the side of my leg,not the biggest of vv's but its bashing my confidence no end

also i don't suffer from any kind of oedema, hope this helps and i shall keep updating as and when
thanks again

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Thanks for the photographs.

Not as bad as I anticipated they might be, so we should expect significant improvements in 4 weeks as was the case with my wife and a nurse who were the first to try it many years ago now.

To prevent slipping put a quilt / duvet / blanket under the bottom sheet and tuck it under the mattress. The additional friction should help a lot. Also after a while you grow accustomed to the slope.

Andrew
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline free spirit just soul

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Hi Andrew,

I have serious varicose veins. I would love to participate in your study!! Are you still looking for participants?  I also have some motor nerve damage as evidenced by Nerve Conduction Studies and EMG's.  I would be willing to track that data as well, since you mention the potential MS implications.  Where do I sign up? :)

Julia

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Hi Julia
The study is informal and aimed at providing strong anecdotal evidence supported preferably with photographic evidence. This thread contains most of the information you require. The intervention is simply to avoid sleeping flat as per the picture on the start of this thread.

This study should mirror two previous pilot studies, although this study is aimed at varicose veins and oedema, your input with regards to your neurological problems and possible changes would be most welcome and of considerable interest to myself and others using this forum.

Conducted under the watchful eyes of doctors and scientists we may even force a controlled study aimed at disproving or proving once and for all the predictable improvements in varicose veins and oedmea. But this would shake the foundations of the medical establishment so will be resisted for now at least.

Andrew
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Bondatan

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Andrew,

I've read most posts about IBT this afternoon. Very interesting.

Want to let you know that I suffered from cluster headaches for about 30 years. Plus: chronic sinusitus, insomnia, swollen veins on my temples, cold hands & feet.

About 4 years ago I read about sleeping on an inclined bed and started doing so. Also practiced a lot of chi kung to improve circulation.

All problems are over now. Haven't had cluster headache for more than 3 years now and I'm absolutely sure it won't return. Circulation is great, sleep deep, hands & feet warm, sinuses healthy, head clear. Will certainly continue to sleep this way.

Do you know where I can find more info on IBT & Parkinson's disease (for a friend)?
« Last Edit: 29/05/2009 15:47:18 by Bondatan »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Andrew,

I've read most posts about IBT this afternoon. Very interesting.

Want to let you know that I suffered from cluster headaches for about 30 years. Plus: chronic sinusitus, insomnia, swollen veins on my temples, cold hands & feet.

About 4 years ago I read about sleeping on an inclined bed and started doing so. Also practiced a lot of chi kung to improve circulation.

All problems are over now. Haven't had cluster headache for more than 3 years now and I'm absolutely sure it won't return. Circulation is great, sleep deep, hands & feet warm, sinuses healthy, head clear. Will certainly continue to sleep this way.

Do you know where I can find more info on IBT & Parkinson's disease (for a friend)?
Iwrote this a while back to see if some interest in conducting a formal study would come of it. Difficult being a one man band sometimes but soldier on as best as I can.

 INCLINED BED THERAPY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3D7tBQfCxQ

Google search terms you will find interesting. It would appear that scientists are waking up to the fact that there is something about flat bed rest that does not bode well for people with Parkinson's disease if indeed it is a disease at all. "Sleep Deprivation" parkinson's

For People With Parkinsonís Disease.   

A person with Parkinsonís experiences many sleep related problems. Often waking paralysed following what should have been a restful nights sleep. On waking a partner or carer will help the person suffering from morning paralysis to sit up. Now their posture has been altered to make use of gravityís beneficial influence on the circulation and some recovery is achieved. Then the legs are moved to the edge of the bed and the feet placed on the floor. Again additional recovery from paralysis is observed. Eventually when helped to stand the person with PD becomes able to move around the home and throughout the day will become more normal in function and in some cases you would hardly realise they have PD.
Only to return to the same repetitive degenerating sleeping posture and each night the PD symptoms gradually deteriorate the personís ability to function normally.

Yet when the bed is elevated at the head end by 6-8 inches to produce a five degree to the horizontal angle, Parkinsonís Disease is observed to improve each morning and Morning Paralysis ceases to become a problem.

We need to test this therapy on a group of who have Parkinsonís Disease! My question is: Are you willing to think outside of the box and test this simple intervention?

Andrew K Fletcher   United Kingdom

Tel: +441803524117

All I have in writing, though had some interesting telephone conversations from several people trying this method, all positive.

Study update:     HOPE

We are still soldiering on with the Gravity theory and I personally want to convey some hope to all involved with the inclined bed.


Some 6 weeks ago I was asked to go to the home of an elderly couple in Torquay.
On arrival, I was introduced to a man who has advanced Parkinson's Disease. He was unable to hold a conversation, suffered from Bowel and Bladder incontinence, and had severe swelling of the abdomen and lower limbs, caused by fluid retention. His face covered in red blotches and carrying a mask of pain. He was housebound and unable to walk with out assistance and support, using a stair lift to reach the upper floor.

Life for this couple is a continual 24/7 struggle.

Some 5 years previous they had read about my work and were approached by a friend whom I was helping with the inclined bed and advised to give it a try at least. The lady said to me that she did not think it applied to everyone and thought that it was too simple an idea to even consider. 5 years later she kneeled down and prayed for a sign. On a Sunday Morning she read the article in the Sunday Independent Newspaper relating to John Caan's continued recovery from a spinal cord injury while using the inclined bed.
Strangely enough she said that she had read all of the news items, and there are many, but still thought at the time that it still did not apply to them-selves?

The very next day I received an amazing call to say that following the best nights sleep she could remember she turned to face her husband and saw that his face had completely altered, there was no pain and the mask of Parkinson's had left. When her husband awakened they had a conversation for the first time in almost a year.

4 weeks later another equally amazing call revealed that her husband had begun to walk in the home and that he had lost two and a half stones of fluid from his body. He now had toes on his feet, which were previously covered by swollen skin, which had flowed out over his feet.

5 weeks yet another amazing call. This time she was talking to her neighbour outside of her home when her husband walked by and continued up the hill with a near normal walking action instead of the Parkinson's Shuffling movement normally observed.

6 weeks I went without appointment to their home to see the changes for myself. I rang the doorbell and was greeted by a man whom six weeks ago could not talk. I asked him "How are you"? and he replied; "much better now thank you, would you like to talk to my wife, I'll just give her a call". I then stood with disbelief as I watched him walk up the stairs with ease, ironically by the side of his stair lift and call his wife's name, he then turned around and walked down the stairs in an uninterrupted normal pace. His approaching figure transformed from the swollen motionless figure of 6 weeks previous.

His medication has now been reduced to half, because we believe that some side effects of totally out of character actions could have been caused by an overdose of drugs. This had the desired effect and worked within a few days, bringing control back with it.

He now wanders off from time to time to see his grandson playing football at the local school, he visits friends and family much to the amazement of everyone who knows him.

No matter how many times I hear or witness these unfolding stories they never cease to amaze and inspire me to continue with this important discovery. And I sincerely hope that this letter to you all will help in someway to lift the shroud of gloom and evil that surrounds the world today.

Your friend across the pond


Andrew K Fletcher
« Last Edit: 29/05/2009 23:21:18 by Andrew K Fletcher »
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline daryl l

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just a quick update,

i have been trying ibt for over 5 weeks now, i must say i do seem to sleep rather well and wake up feeling quite refreshed!! these are the plus sides,

as for my varicose veins they have not improved in the slightest, i would say that if anything it has slightly worsened, i haven't been wearing a support stocking since the day i started ibt nor have i been straining, my only exorcise has been cycling and the odd game of tennis

i would love to hear from people who have noticed any significant changes after a 4 or 5 week period, im not expecting miracles and will continue with ibt, but i am slightly concerned that it may cause more harm than good and would like some reassurance please

i hope this post doesn't seem too negative thats not the intention

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Offline alun006

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Hi Daryl

Don't be disappointed with your results, because you have been on i.b.t for just 4-5 weeks.

I had a periods of thinking that nothing was happening, but they will sometimes look different from time to time.

Maybe whot you have witnessed is blood actually improving which may cause your veins to look blowted temperally, i observed this from time to time. And the improvement came afterwards.

Please make sure you drink more, as this will help alot.......

I have now eradicated the knee pains that i have had for many years before i.b.t and my veins are improving as the months go by.

Andrew has taught me to think laterally & it has changed my life - more than just being on the bed as well.

I will make the effort to add some new images, i have just had a horse bite to deal with on my leg. But when it heals i will be ready to release them.

I am so thankful to Andrew for not only sharing his theory, but giving me a understanding of how the theory works.

He will always have my support..
alun004


« Last Edit: 26/06/2009 23:55:25 by alun006 »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Hi Daryl, thank you for the update.

You say you have not been wearing the support stocking. And there is a slight increase in the varicose veins. You took some photographs, can you take some more from the same angle and same lighting? How were the veins responding to the compression stocking prior to putting the bed on an angle?

When using Inclined therapy, before getting out of bed in the morning, can you have someone take a photograph of the veins as Alun did? This should show normal looking veins and this is how the bed works, the longer the veins are kept deflated, the more the eleasticity of the vein recovers it's ability to resist pressure changes. A bit like stretching a ligament needs resting in order to tighten back up.

Your post is not negative, you are stating your observations and this is fine as we all need to learn. The best way to examine the veins is to compare photographs taken at the same time of day before and after.

Andrew

« Last Edit: 30/06/2009 10:35:19 by Andrew K Fletcher »
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline daryl l

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hey alun and andrew thanks for the replies,

andrew as for the compression stocking,
 i don't feel it really did a hell of a lot except hold the veins in as opposed to having them out in the open and maybe enlargening whilst im lifting or doing some decent excercize, this is probably just a myth i have had installed in me by my doctor who told me to wear one in the first place at all times!!
tbh as soon as i took the stocking off the vein would simply stick out or inflate just as before and as i don't seem to get much pain from it except in winter, i haven't noticed much if any difference
 my obvious fear is that when i do have to lift heavy objects is that all the good ibt is doing i may simply be putting so much pressure on my leg that is never going to get better,

as for the vein itself, it looks different every day especially depending on the weather, sometimes not too bad and when its hot and humid it can look awful!
it also seems to have moved slightly further down my leg by approx an inch,
i think my problem is that the varicose vein starts on my ankle then seems to disappear to nothing up my leg then reappear until it stops just below the knee, almost as if its just a matter of time before the section with no protrusion says enoughs enough and pops all the way to my ankle,

i shall put photos up asap my camera is on charge as i write this

thanks again


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Offline daryl l

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as promised (week 5)
firstly my ankle, i have noticed that the little red veins surrounding the bulges seem to have spread apart from that no real change as yet

now my leg, i know it seems hard to see but its actually worse than the photo shows, you can just about make out where the bulging has moved slightly further down the leg and almost looks to be returning upwards in a "V" shape  i can take pics from other angles if it helps? and if someone can teach me how to highlight certain areas that would be great

lastly i will get my girlfriend to take a pic first thing in the morning, i do notice that first thing if i look at my leg before i get up that the veins are totally flat and invisible!!
hope this is a good sign??
« Last Edit: 01/07/2009 16:27:23 by daryl l »