Varicose Veins & Oedema Study Inclined Bed Therapy IBT Alternative to Surgery

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Offline Karen W.

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Hummm thats odd.. I don't know I have never used one that measures all that stuff!

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Great thanks for providing the stats very useful later. After you tilt your bed we will be able to determine what if anything has changed from sleeping flat.

The asparagus and nettle Tea when combined with IBT should produce some observable changes in oedema.
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Offline OldDragon

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Karen, I spotted it on offer in the local pharmacy when there yesterday, and so cheap I couldn't resist it. (I am as bad as my grandson for gadgets! Lol )

However, I have asked in the technical forum for more information about how these monitors work and can give accurate readings. Another mystery for the OD to add to the collection. [;)]

Time for a nettle tea and a bath, I think, before I land the little collection of printed papers on my doctor's desk this afternoon...

Btw - BP this morning after simply sitting here is: 154/88;

Pulse rate: 86
Respiration: 10
Body fat: 49.8%
Body Water: 35%
Body Muscle: 47.1%
Mid Calf circumference - both now: 40cms.

« Last Edit: 01/07/2008 11:46:43 by OldDragon »
Pain Promotes Growth - Suffering is Optional.

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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http://www.psoriasis-help.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18376.50.html





Penny a few years ago in Lanzarote on the right.
Penny used to have a large varicose vein down the inside of her leg. This has now gone flat also.
Note also Pennyís skin to this day remains clear, although on occasions she does get some P on elbows and in the lower back area, but these are temporary flares rather than stubborn psoriasis.

I have just been sent some pretty impressive photographs from another person who is testing IBT for varicose veins. In due course we will have a set of photographs for comparison and then we can identify whether this is working or not.

Andrew K Fletcher
« Last Edit: 01/07/2008 12:25:45 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline OldDragon

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That is all really encouraging, Andrew. [:)]

Collected my blocks today and my son remembered to turn up to do the bed lifting, so I'm all  ready for kick off now.

Just taken another set of stats for you, which are as follows:

BP this evening when sitting here watching Nadal v Murray match [;D] is: 138/82;
Pulse rate: 85
Respiration: 10
Body fat: 49.6%
Body Water: 35.1%
Body Muscle: 47.3%
Mid Calf circumference - both still: 40cms.
Weight: 15 st.

For the record: Today has been very wet here in the valley and my joints have all been aching from arthritis. (Polyarthropathy affects me literally from toes to jaw and all between. Noticably worst in ankles, knees, spine, shoulders, elbows, and wrists today.)

Medication and suppliments taken:
1 x 1 a day cod liver oil and glucosamine capsule.
600mg dispersible aspirin.
1 x 10mg Loratadine (Non-sedating antihistamine to address hayfever/sneezing, as the latter especially can aggravate my back inflamation.)
By the time I go to bed - 2 x cups nettle tea, plus some asparagus with a chicken and rice for evening meal, beef salad roll lunch and cereal/fruit/nuts mix for breakfast with 1% fat skimmed milk.

Exercise today has largely been only stretching and short period of that while using hand-held, low weights - no more than 7lbs per arm.

If you need anything else, Andrew, please let me know.



« Last Edit: 03/07/2008 02:38:50 by OldDragon »
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Offline alun006

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Andrew

A knee pain that i never got diagnosed properly and am guaranteed to get a visit from at least 2-5 times depending a week, is now behaving differently.

A Specialist doctor looked at this problem when i was 5 years old,growing pains seemed the easiest way to diagnose it, at 6ft 3.5 inches i did grow but stopped several years ago. I am now 33 years old and i am still suffering. A operation was tried several years later but did not work.

I would normally get a slight pain behind the knee, this was a warning that the pain was coming, now i either stopped the pain before it started by taking the pain killers early or i would loose the pain and it would come back very bad the second time.

This pain has been known when not treated to stop me walking properly.

The pain is now only coming on with the first warning signs under the knee, then it is going and not returning as it would do normally, i have also noticed that when i told you that i had a pea shaped swelling that was tender to the touch on my groin creece that was noticed on saturday. (It feels like when you touch under your neck when you have a bad cold.) i was presuming it was a swollen groin gland, is it possible that this might be a sign that my system may be trying to fight this horrible knee pain from coming on, as it is starting and stopping at least 4 times daily at the moment without fully developing.  And i don't have to reach for the pain killers.

Only 2 full attacks this week with this pain.
Alun

I have never experienced this pain to start coming on not flare up fully and not return??????????
I will keep you posted on this interesting development
« Last Edit: 02/07/2008 21:50:03 by alun006 »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Alun thank you for posting these photographs. They offer much encouragement for others to join this important study but they also offer some serious problems for current physiology literature, which does not and cannot relate to how gravity can change pressures inside the veins! In fact the common advice is for people to sleep with their legs up above the heart and this has never been shown to offer any permanent relief from varicose veins or oedema.

Prediction: All good theories can offer sound clear repeatable results. I have been repeating these same experiments since 1994 and producing predictable repeatable results. But alas these can be easily ignored, and have been ignored by too many.
 
To prove this point again, I made another identical prediction in the very title of this thread as a challenge for nursesí doctors, scientists and surgeons to test my theory and come back to us and relay their findings. Once again and sadly none were forthcoming so presumably this challenge has also fallen on deaf ears.

Alanís results so far look pretty conclusive for a mere 7 days of Inclined Bed Therapy out of the 4 weeks of IBT that were advised in order to show substantial improvements.

My research has taken me on a long learning curve as to how best to go about showing the importance of gravity to people who should sit up and take notice in order to save lives from unnecessary and dangerous procedures that expose people to lethal infectious diseases, blocked and collapsed veins, circulation failure, stroke, heart failure and with little chance of providing permanent remedial results frequently leading to more repeat surgery.

In this thread I have stated that we have to address the cause of varicose veins which is a pressure difference between the vein and the surrounding muscle and skin tissue. When the pressure is higher inside the vein or lymph system fluid leeches out causing the limb to swell. Inclined bed therapy (IBT) addresses this by recognising how solutes alter pressure inside vessels when they are moved by gravity in the direction they are supposed to move and it is the solutes that provide the reduced swelling in varicose veins by altering the pressure in the arteries and increasing the tension in the blood inside the veins and when the pressure inside the veins and lymph system change favourably to the surrounding tissue pressure we see a migration of oedema back into the veins, through the arteries where the solutes and the excess fluid is excreted in the urine.

Did Alunís feet swell up as a result of IBT? Apparently not according to the photographic evidence!

Andrew K Fletcher
« Last Edit: 02/07/2008 21:59:52 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline OldDragon

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First night sleeping on the inclined bed, there was no noticeable increase in the oedema in my ankles, Andrew, but the biggest change I noticed was that I woke actually feeling as if I'd had some measure of restorative sleep. That must be the first time in months that has happened to me. Could be coincidence, of course, but...?

There was also less aching from the arthritis in my feet, ankles and knees, despite the weather still being wet. I felt well energised all day. Too well, perhaps, as still wide awake at four the next morning, when I needed to up early for a hospital appointment by 7.30am. [::)]

Second night of IBT was therefore a short one, and was woken before naturally ready to wake, so not aware of feeling well-rested. Still no ankle swelling to report, but it does seem that either two lots of different hospital scales or the ones at the local chemist's must be wrong, as they weighed me today at a different hospital and 14st! A couple of days ago I was 15st on the chemist's scales, and 15st 2lbs on those just before. [::)] Will be glad when the right sized batteries for my own scales are in stock in town. I might then have a better idea of where I am at weight-wise and whether it is 4st or 5st I need to shed! Could be the weight gain was only 2lbs afterall and has been lost with the reduction of the oedema? There is still a bit of that present, and my calves are back up to 41cms, but the varicose veins on the right leg are becoming more visible now the swelling is reducing.
« Last Edit: 04/07/2008 17:28:25 by OldDragon »
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Offline OldDragon

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My stats taken this morning - 3rd day of IBT:

BP 137/87
Pluse:75;
Body Fat: 49.6%;
Body Water: 35.1%;
Body Muscle: 47.3%;
Respiration 10 per min.
Calves: Left 40cms; Right: 41cms

I woke today feeling refreshed again, and naturally, after about 6 hours sleep. This is an unfamiliar feeling for me because, having FM, I normally feel as if I've not had enough sleep.

The aching in my ankles and knees has definitely reduced, but my lower spine (L4 - S1) where there is currently noticable acitivity relating to degenerative disc disease (as shown by scan) that pre-existed IBT, the aching is still present. The aching in my shoulders, wrists and elbows seems to have lessenned. (Weather here is still damp and overcast.)

Have taken the usual daily cod liver oil and glucosamine capsule, plus two aspirins today as anti-inflammatory.
« Last Edit: 05/07/2008 12:38:00 by OldDragon »
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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A lady on another forum asked a question about people standing for prolonged periods having problems with varicose veins and oedema. So I have included my reply to her because many people will be wondering about how this applies to the IBT Theory.

I think there is some merit in standing for prolonged periods of time causing veins to swell but it may not be as obvious why this is happening and is often attributed to pooling of blood.

But we have a circular system, so if blood is pooling around the lower limbs something must be restricting the flow through the veins and causing back pressure.

Could this be the pressure on the tissue surrounding the veins in the feet, caused by the weight of a person standing in one position for too long? If this were the case, then the circulation might be compromised further and cause a person to collapse? Weddings, where a groom or bride stand motionless for longer than usual sometimes succumb to this and have been featured on short videos on TV. Guards standing to attention have learned to move their weight from one foot to another to avoid collapsing on duty. Again simply moving the weight like this would suffice to relieve the pressure and allow the system to function better.

Another point is that when a person has been on their feet all day they like nothing better than coming home to put their feet up, especially when the literature advises them that this is the best thing to do.

A giraffe for example stands on its feet and seldom lies down at all. One would thing with its massive height and impressive circulation it too would have varicose veins, yet it does not. NASA in fact are studying the animal to try to understand why it does not have problems with bulging veins. In the Giraffes leg the veins are closer to the bone than in humans and therefore have more muscle and tissue to hold in the pressure (It Is Thought by the NASA Scientists) Yet they still have to solve how those veins develop closer to the bones in the Giraffe. Could it be that the pressure inside the veins does not increase as predicted by the animalís height? Indeed this appears to be the case. So if the pressure is much lower in the veins than the surrounding muscle and tissue the veins will not bulge and oedema will not form. But more to the point the pressure inside the muscles and skin will be higher than the vein and this should be able to explain why the veins remain closer to the animals bones while the animal grows to adult size. An analogy of this is a bench I once saw secured to a tree for many years. The tree had grown around the bench and a huge portion of it was inside the tree completely engulfed by the trees production line of tiny tubes we see as the grain in timber.   

I have added pictures from Old Dragon in one of my posts next to her original photographs for ease of comparison. These now photographs taken 5 days after Inclined Bed Therapy Began show a definite relief in skin tightness resulting from a migration of fluid from the affected limbs back into the main circulation as predicted.

Old Dragonís Doctor predicted a significant increase in swelling which clearly has not occurred! 
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Offline OldDragon

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Here are some stats for you, Andrew, taken this morning after 6 days/nights of IBT.

BP: 133/77
Pluse: 81
Body Fat: 49.7%;
Body Water: 35%;
Body Muscle: 47.2%;
Respiration 9 per min.
Calves: Left 40cms; Right: 41cms.
Weight: 14st. 12.8lbs (Stripped and taken using my own scales.)
BMI (Body mass index): 33.3.
Hours sleep previous night: 5 - woke naturally feeling refreshed again.
Pain level/location/s: Low grade, dull ache L4 - S1 region of spine. Low grade ache both feet/ankles. (All areas known to be affected by OA/previous injuries.)
Medication taken: 1 soluable aspirin. (Reducing to 1 per day from average of two every other day as experiment.)
Suppliments: 1 x 1 a day cod liver oil & glucosamine capsule. 1 x milk thistle capsule, 1 x cup nettle tea.

Weather: Damp & overcast but trying to brighten.

« Last Edit: 08/07/2008 12:07:33 by OldDragon »
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Alun's photo after two weeks of IBT. Note the veins are fading from the top first. And they are becoming thinner as a result of avoiding a flat bed.

Link to High res photograph:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb31/Andrew_K_Fletcher/Varicose%20veins/all-in-one-2week-vein-photos2.jpg
« Last Edit: 09/07/2008 12:05:55 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline OldDragon

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Those photos are really impressive, Alun. I've tried to take mine out on the back yard and when the flash on the camera doesn't kick in. It's been a case of trying to get the shots myself between showers, hence the odd angles. Lol

Anyway, after the first full week of IBT, here at the latest stats:

BP: 127/76
Pluse: 78
Body Fat: 49.7%;
Body Water: 35%;
Body Muscle: 47.2%;
Respiration 9 per min.
Calves: Left 39.5cms; Right: 39.5cms.
Weight: 14st. 11.2lbs (Stripped and taken using my own scales.)
BMI (Body mass index): 33.3.
Hours sleep previous night: 5 - woke naturally feeling refreshed again.
Pain level/location/s: Low grade, dull ache L4 - S1 region of spine.

Medication taken so far today: 1 soluable aspirin. (Having reduced to 1 per day from average of two every other day as experiment.)
Suppliments: 1 x 1 a day cod liver oil & glucosamine capsule. 1 x milk thistle capsule, 1 x cup nettle tea.

Weather in the valley: Very WET!
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Offline OldDragon

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No problem, Alun, your points are very valid and useful. Which reminds me, Andrew wanted some photos of my finger & toe nails - if it ever stops raining, I'll try and get those. Lol (Now where did I put that manicure set someone once bought me a dozen Christmasses or more ago... [;)]
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Offline Carolyn

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Andrew - My Dad, as of today, is home from the hospital after having a heart attack and triple bypass surgery and having his aortic heart valve replaced.  I've been telling my mother about the Inclined Bed Therapy and she wants to give it a try. 

I'm curious to know whether there are any conditions where IBT would be considered unsafe.

He's still very weak and is on oxygen.  His feet are also quite swollen tonight, but he's also been up moving around probably more than he should have.
Carolyn

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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HI Carolyn. Your father should be fine on IBT. Torbay Hospital now advise heart patients to put their beds on an angle.

It should improve his breathing and increase the amount of oxygen in the blood and also remove the oedema from his legs over a few weeks. It will slow down his heart rate by 10 to 12 beats per minute and his respiration by 4-5 breaths per minute compared to sleeping flat. This is due I think to a steady stronger heart beat emerging that empties the heart properly and this takes a little longer than a shallow beat. Same applies to the lungs, they appear to inflate and deflate more effectively on Inclined Bed Therapy again this takes a little longer than shallow breathing.

Circulation definately improves and can be observed with skin colour changes in hands and feet and also a warmer skin to touch confirms improvements in circulation. It has also been confirmed by a nurse at Derriford Hospital recovery room electronically.

RE unsafe: There may be a problem getting in and out of the bed for people that are very frail and unsteady on their feet to begin with so careful supervision is required during transfer from a wheel chair to the bed and the reverse.

Also where a collapsed vein is suspected, p[osibly due to varicose vein surgery then the affected limb may show signs of poorer circulation due to the lack of pressure to keep the collapsed vein open.

This is why I have asked for people who have not had surgery to come forward so that we can avoid this problem albeit very rare. I have only heard of one case where IBT has decreased circulation to a limb with a collapsed vein.

Important to avoid the feet pressing on a footboard as constant pressure during the night could comprimise circulation in the toes and feet as the bones apply pressure on the tissue against a foot board. So make sure he does not slide down to the bottom of a bed with a footboard.

A prediction for your Father using IBT.

Metal heart valves can be heard and almost always have audible fibrilation and often miss beats during flat bed rest.

Sometimes a blue tone in the skin appears on the lips, fingers, toes and nose indicating poor circulation following these implants.

All of which will resolve on inclined bed therapy in 4 weeks.

So if you could confirm your fathers current observations following surgery re his heart rate blood pressure,respiration rate, weight etc and share them with us we should be able to see marked changes if he were to test this theory.

Andrew 


Andrew - My Dad, as of today, is home from the hospital after having a heart attack and triple bypass surgery and having his aortic heart valve replaced.  I've been telling my mother about the Inclined Bed Therapy and she wants to give it a try. 

I'm curious to know whether there are any conditions where IBT would be considered unsafe.

He's still very weak and is on oxygen.  His feet are also quite swollen tonight, but he's also been up moving around probably more than he should have.
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Offline OldDragon

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Carolyn, I do hope that your father feels better very soon. My mother had a quadruple by-pass and valve replacements some years ago, and made a marvellous recovery.

These are some of the things that I have observed during the 8 nights Ive now been sleeping on an inclined bed.

During 7 of the 8 nights, I have slept for at least 4 - 5 hours and woken naturally feeling REFRESHED by the sleep! That is a big change for me, as I often struggle to sleep at all and for days at a time and, having fibromyalgia, almost always wake feeling as if I've not slept at all. I actually feel as if I have some energy for a change... and that's a bit of a novelty for me!

The small, bobbly blue veins in my right ankle that resulted after a riding accident when I was 16 have disappeared!

The oedema in my legs/calves has reduced by up to 5.5cms and my legs have not been swelling during the day.

Tenderness in the area of my varicose veins has reduced considerably, and I have even risked kneeling down to do things a couple of times and with no problem at all. (In the past this action has usually resulted in a bout of phlebitis.)

The pain and inflammation, plus the fibro related 'hot spots' in my upper back (thoracic and lower cervical vertebrae) and shoulders has not affected me. (Immediately prior to the trial, I felt as if the area had been scalded and could hardly bear even a light T-shirt on that.)

The arthritic pain in my feet, ankles and knees has disappeared!

The low grade aching in my lumbar spine - L4 - S1 - appears to be reducing slightly now. (And an x-ray taken of that very recently showed considerable osteo arthritic activity and evidence of degenerative disc disease.)

My blood pressure has been steadily reducing - similarly my pulse rate and respiration.

I have lost a little over 3lbs in weight, and without any particular changes to my diet! (Which is a reasonably healthy eating plan, with a few naughty indulgences here and there. )

So far, I've not noticed any negatives. Even the dogs haven't complained about the change to the angle of their sleeping arrangements.

Would I go back to sleeping on a horizontal bed...? Not if I can help it! 
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Offline OldDragon

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I think I over-did things yesterday and my lower back has really kicked off again today, and despite about 6 hours sleep last night. I know that you mentioned the back ache could get worse temporarily, but hard to say if it's as you predicted or because I pushed myself yesterday. Either way, have dug out an old back support today to see if that will help a bit. Have a fair bit of work/listing to get done today. Not done stats, as it's proven impossible to sit quietly even for 20 minutes without interruptions.
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Offline alun006

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Old Dragon

I hope you feel better soon, sounds like you are having a hard day.

I know your health probs, can not be compared to mine.  But you may find that improvement happens quiet quickly at first, but then is not noticed as much for sometime many days after.

This is when you can get abit down and feel that was it working aswell as you thought.

I have went through spouts of feeling up then down, i think it can be quiet emotional at times. analysing everything that happens.

Hope you get well enough to carry on with the incline.

Regards Alun




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Offline OldDragon

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Cheers, Alun, although I'm not considering stopping the IBT at all. Certainly not because of an aching lower back. I've lived with that problem for many years and am hoping that, long term, the IBT will benefit it.  [;D]

Having a busy, rather than hard day, and have just walked down and back to see to the horses, and to try and get a bit of fresh air and exercise. Could have taken the car but trying to keep up with some simple exercise ideas, aching back or not. [;)] Lol I'd probably be more likely to get annoyed with myself than feel down if I didn't. [:)]

One thing I didn't mention before, is that my haemorrhoids have been behaving really well since inclining the bed. [;D]

I find it really interesting analysing the things that happen. The difference in your photos is quite amazing, and my mother has a varicose vein in a similar position to you, and has asked me to print off details from this thread now and show her your photos. She's going to incline her bed and keep us updated via my brother on her progress. Besides the veins and oedema, she also has an ulcer that has been troubling her for a long time and has been infected with MRSA, too.
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Sorry Alun I was advised of this over the telephone during a pilot study invloving spinal cord injury. It was an observation made by a lady who noticed her foot became blue when inclined and later confirmed she had an ongoing problem with a collapsed vein caused by varicose vein surgery.



Andrew

Could you give me any more information on the relationship with a callapsed veins and surgery, was interested to see this mentioned in the above thread.

Are patients that have had surgery for varicose veins, more prone to this even many years after as well ?

I know that if a patient has had surgery once on a vv, that the procedure is more involved next time, if it is not successful.

alun

P.S  I hope Carolyn's father gets better soon.


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Offline OldDragon

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Just to give you the promised stats and after the 12th night of IBT...

BP 109/79
Pluse:71;
Body Fat: 49.8%;
Body Water: 35.1%;
Body Muscle: 47.2%;
Respiration 9 per min.
Calves: Left 41cms; Right: 41cms.
Weight: 14st 12lbs. (Can't believe I've gained a little, and after all that exercise yesterday! :( Will have to pretend it's muscle, even if the other stats don't agree!

No changes in medication/suppliments.

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Offline Karen W.

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Hey Al.. I could not find one of those gadgets at the pharmacy any other ideas..?

How are you feeling today? I hope you are ok... I was thinking of you in the night and was a bit troubled in my thoughts.. did you not sleep well or over do it a bit yesterday?

I hope you feel well today and have a great day!

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

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Offline OldDragon

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I'll try and find out if that pharmacy have a website and can supply to the USA when I take the post up the road later, Karen.

Yes, I did over do things a bit, as expected, but actually went to bed quite early for me and slept well, and for a bit longer than usual, too. My back and right hip ache today, but not too badly. ;)

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Al Your Stats are looking very interesting and Following the same pattern that Karen reported when she tilted her bed. Many others have also reported the blood pressure reductions. Your pulse is also fining a lower rest rate.

I noticed on your start photographs that you wear some kind of stocking that leaves a visible pressure mark in your skin. Try not wearing these types of socks and if you do need to wear them cut the elastic at the top. This should help move the fluid faster.
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Offline Carolyn

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Dad's bed has been inclined now for 3 days.  The swelling has almost disappeared in his feet, his face is starting to turn back to it's normal shade and he's not using the oxygen nearly as much. 

I had planned on inclining my bed when I get home from Georgia in the hopes that it may help with the pain of the Fibromyalgia and possibly will help hubby's night leg pains, but after looking at mom and dad's bed, I'm not so sure hubby's going to go for it.  The feet of their bed was already 6 inches off the the ground and then we raised it another 6 inches.  That's a pretty steep incline....erhm...I would think that would make sex a little difficult!
Carolyn

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Offline OldDragon

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Andrew, me and socks are a saga! Lol Pet hate is the ones that slide off into my wellies or boots, and I detest cold feet. Finding the balance between ones that stay up without too much pressure and yet don't end up in my boots is a mission impossible, I believe. Going to remove the elastic from my track suit bottoms, though.

Carolyn, I have it on good authority (from my goddaughter) that inclining the bed 6" at the head end seems to give her husband extra 'energy' in that department! [;)] Mind you, they have been known to raise the height of the kitchen table and experiment...  [::)] Whatever, she has told me that the bed they bought recently, and inclined, has brought a whole new dimension to their love life, even though they've retained their old waterbed, too! The elderly uncle who lives with them is talking about needing a holiday so that he can get some undisturbed sleep... [;)]
Pain Promotes Growth - Suffering is Optional.

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Offline OldDragon

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I'm find it really interesting reading your posts and progress, Alun. Like you, I too have hayfever, but it's a few days now since I've felt the need to take antihistamines, despite the pollen count rising.

Today my stats are:

BP 113/81
Pulse:71;
Body Fat: 49.7%;
Body Water: 35.1%;
Body Muscle: 47.3%;
Respiration 9 per min.
Calves: Left 40cms; Right: 40cms.
Weight: 14st 11.4lbs.

No changes in suppliments.
No aspirin taken today.

Minimal, low grade aching L4 - S1 spinal region.


« Last Edit: 15/07/2008 18:52:26 by OldDragon »
Pain Promotes Growth - Suffering is Optional.

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Offline OldDragon

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Well done, to your son, Alun. [:)]

I don't know about your legs getting sexier, but that vein certainly looks to be reducing steadily.  [;D]

My GP and the consultant at the cancer hospital are both showing an interest in the changes I've been noticing since commencing the IBT. I'm hoping that, by the time I next see the GP my veins and oedema will really leap out at him by their lack of presence. [;D]
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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Hi Carolyn
Thank you for posting this report on your dad's progress using Inclined Bed Therapy. I am currently corresponding with 10 Downing Street, My M.P Adrian Sanders and the National Health Service in a bid to have this study mirrored in a controlled environment.
I hope that some of them are taking on board what is happening here.

You may find that IBT has an aphrodisiac affect too if you get my drift. Furthermore my wife and I can personally testify to having a healthy active sex life sleeping on an incline.

Fibromialgia should respond well to IBT

Dad's bed has been inclined now for 3 days.  The swelling has almost disappeared in his feet, his face is starting to turn back to it's normal shade and he's not using the oxygen nearly as much. 

I had planned on inclining my bed when I get home from Georgia in the hopes that it may help with the pain of the Fibromyalgia and possibly will help hubby's night leg pains, but after looking at mom and dad's bed, I'm not so sure hubby's going to go for it.  The feet of their bed was already 6 inches off the the ground and then we raised it another 6 inches.  That's a pretty steep incline....erhm...I would think that would make sex a little difficult!
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline OldDragon

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While in the bath last night, I had the chance to really look at those varicose veins - both the three little knobbly ones on the left leg and the longer one below my right knee. There are three distinct little depressions now over the ones on the left, and a depressed channel over the one on the right! My camera seems to be broken, else I'd have taken more photos. The shape of my left leg seems to have altered considerably, too.

Not done stats, as I'm full of a cold and chest infection, so feeling really crappy at the moment. However, so far, the coughing and sneezing hasn't caused my back to pop out of place in the thoracic region, which usually happens and then triggers the muscle spasms. The pains in my lumber spine seem to be easing off now, too.
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Offline Karen W.

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I am sure sorry you are so sick right now.. sending good thoughts and lots of hugs.. feel better soon!

Glad your back has not spasmed either sounds like the incline is working wonders!

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

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Offline oldbiker1

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I started IBT about six weeks ago - was painting my bed base and didn't want to set it on the carpet, so I put a couple 3" blocks under the head.  Went to bed that night and forgot the blocks were there. When I slept all night without getting up for the toilet runs, I wondered why - woke up at 5:30 AM and couldn't believe that I had slept straight through - haven't done that for about 30 years.

So, I did some research on the Internet and found Andrew Fletcher's information.  So, I am now a "convert" -- currently at 4 inches, on the way up to 6" eventually.  Main benefits - sleeping soundly all night; no coughing at night anymore; only get up once and the varicose veins are disappearing. They weren't bad, but, at 68, I did have some minor issues in that department. But, they are disappearing gradually. My wife has had varicose vein problems for years, so I'm watching to see what happens with her.  She recently had some "work" done, so they were subsiding as a result of that, but I'll be watching to see if they stay away.

My son has sleep apnea problems and he just started (at 3") -- some improvement the first night -- will monitor that closely.

all for now...

oldbiker1
Escondido, California

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Sitting with your seat higher than your knees so there is a gentle slope down to your feet will give maximum benefits. Placing a pillow under the knee is suggested by the medical profession not myself.

In my opinion it will serve to slow down circulation and increase backpressure causing a blow out in the veins above the knee and may be responsible for the bulge in your groin area. I have posted a link to a video about blowouts (bulges) on the first page of this thread for you and others Alun.


Hi Members

Glad to see so many people gaining from the inclined bed therapy.

When i first started the inclined bed therapy (a month tomorrow), andrew mentioned the fact you could get further benefit if needed it through the day when using a certain type of rest for your legs. This type of resting had to be placed below the knee, so that the knee is higher than the foot when resting.

So i had to mention a rest that i am using that gives me a boost during the day and you can place it under tables and when you are watching TV, or on the computer etc.

I just had to tell all of you, as i think it is a great way of using this type of rest, and it feels great.

I am using a bean bag that is scrupled into a ball then, i sit slightly stretched out and place my feet in the middle, not only does it feel great, it keeps your feet warm.

This method it also easier to place under tables as well.

It has even stopped my knee pains coming on, when they have been starting.

Hope andrew approoves of this method

alun [;D]




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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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The first opening sentence of this thread is why do varicose veins shrink after only 4 weeks of inclined bed therapy?

I waited many months for an answer and continually refreshed the thread to give ample time for an answer. Yet in a physiology and medical thread read by many working in the industry no answer was forthcoming and more disturbing was that no attempt was made as far as I am aware to put my words to the test by people involved in the care of patients. Eventually Alun and Alison both unqualified in medicine decided to put my question to the test. And both have reported significant improvements. Alun has provided us with some photographic and supporting text accounts of his own observations and we can clearly see a substantial gradual improvement in his varicose veins as predicted would be the case based on pilot study results. Alison has provided us with some evidence of changes in her oedema and varicose veins but Alison has also provided us with some important stats showing a huge improvement in blood pressure. Karen also provided us with statistics on another thread showing the same pattern in blood pressure changes. And Old Biker has provided us with an account of what is happening to himself as a result of accidentally inclining his own bed.

Every theory that holds true must be based on sound uncompromising science We test and retest to make sure that the theory is sound. We make a prediction and produce results to verify the prediction is either false or true. Then we test again and again and only when we are certain that there is no room for doubt we go public and make a challenge against the existing literature to bring forward an answer to what clearly goes against itís acceptance and validity.

This study is on target to do justice to scientific method by invalidating erroneous Literature that is in need of urgent revision. But not because we are trying to prove a theory is correct or indeed is incorrect but because too many patients are suffering avoidable long term medical problems that frequently result in the loss of a limb or risk of infectious diseases from hospitalisation and in some cases even death. Surgical procedures are moving towards closing veins using ablation or foam injection or stripping veins, which have one thing in common. None of them address what causes the veins to bulge in the first place and so are destined to failure with more bulges and blow outs occurring elsewhere in the body as the same pressure that caused the first bulges in the veins will inevitably find a weak vessel and cause it to expend also.

Erroneous assumptions.
1.   The heart is solely responsible for pumping blood around the body.
2.   Raising your legs above the heart helps to resolve varicose veins.
3.   Raising your legs above or level with the heart helps to resolve oedema.
4.   Sleeping horizontal or flat has never been scientifically tested to see if it is ideally suited to human physiology. However it has been tested by NASA et al who have used it as a model to show significant degenerative affects on the body. They have done so to try to understand why reduced gravity in astronauts during space flight has such a profound degenerative affect on the human body.
5.   Sleeping flat assists recovery when we are ill, when all the evidence suggests this may not be the case. Ironic when the health industry relies entirely on flat beds for patients.
6.   Sleeping on an inclined bed will cause blood to pool in the ankles and feet. It does not!
7.   Sleeping on an inclined bed will cause oedema to develop. The opposite occurs and long-standing problems with oedema are resolved.
8.   Sleeping on an inclined bed causes circulation to slow down. It does the opposite and significantly increases circulation indicated by warmer hands and feet in bed and the development of a healthier pink skin indicating more oxygen is delivered to the body.
9.   Sleeping on an Inclined bed puts strain on the heart. It does nothing of the kind and slows down the Heart Rate by developing a cleaner stronger beat. Fibrillation is resolved and even in the case of a metal valve being used which is known to always cause fibrillation there is no fibrillation once the person with the metal valve has been introduced IBT. Furthermore it is not uncommon for the heart in such cases to miss beats during flat bed-rest. Again resolved by IBT. And last but not least A person with significant cyanosis- A bluish discoloration of the skin and mucous membranes resulting from inadequate oxygenation of the blood on the nose lips, fingers and toes should find they return to normal healthy colour, again indicating that circulation is improved on an inclined bed. Which does not sit well with current physiology literature.
10.   We know that thrombosis may develop when a patient is confined to a flat bed for too long. This is well understood and warfarin, aspirin and other drugs are administered in hospitals to help prevent this. Yet when Inclined Bed Therapy is adopted for a person with a visible Deep Vein Thrombosis, it resolves without medication and the hardened area in the calf vanishes. This happens because the circulation speeds up and like a fast flowing river the river bank is eroded, unlike a slow flowing river which allows sediment and debris to settle on the river bed.
11.   In the literature, there is no clear understanding of how lymphatic flow and cerebral spinal fluid flow occur in the body any more than there is a clear understanding of how trees lift water from the root to the leaf without a pump sometimes in excess of four thousand litres a day. We know it is not the heart that is involved with these non-pumped systems and we do know that posture and respiration are definitely involved. So why do we still adhere to a flat bed as a means to assist patients with neurological and lymph problems?
12.   Is it safe to place a baby in a horizontal position, I.E. on a flat bed? Is it a coincidence that the baby cries to be picked up when laying down flat and stops crying when in the arms of another human? It is believed that this is because it craves to be close to its mother. Yet the very act of cradling a baby in our arms produces an inclined posture, which relaxes the baby. Could the baby be trying to communicate with us to let us know how stupid we are by placing our babies flat? Could placing a baby flat compromise its circulation and could placing a baby flat be one of the reasons for cot / crib deaths?

The financial cost of surgery for varicose veins is: More than 50,000 varicose vein operations are carried out in England and Wales every year at a cost of between £400m and £600m
Private Health Care Costs: Varicose vein surgery on both legs will cost in the region of £2,100 to £3,000 inclusive of private hospital charges and consultantís fees.Laser ablation treatment  will cost in the region of £2,000 to £2,500 one/two legs inclusive of private hospital charges and consultant fees.


Andrew K Fletcher
« Last Edit: 25/07/2008 10:26:47 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline Interest in the Temple!

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Hi Andrew

I spent yesterday and this morning researching IBT and have found both the results and thinking behind it very interesting. Last night I slept at a 4" incline and plan to increase this over the coming weeks.

My partner suffers from varicose veins and has done so for about 7 years and I will photograph and monitor her development.

I personally suffer from lower back pain, which I have almost come to accept over the past 2 years - at the age of 26! This is obviously frustrating and I can clearly see the medical profession has not been the most respectful to your theories, which is pretty disgusting.

Having read and seen examples of were varicose veins have been reduced due to a gradual reduction in blood pressure in the veins. If this is the case, will this also work for facial redness? I suffer from thread veins on my face and as you have noted with vascular surgery for varicose veins, surgery is painful, expensive and short term. Can I expect any improvement in this with IBT?

Anyway, good luck in your research and I will post photos of any improvements me and my partner experience.

Peace and love.

Aidan

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Hi Aidan

Thank you for taking the time to investigate the theory behind IBT. And thank you both for testing my theory and providing us with your own observations. Make sure you both drink more water as IBT does have a slight diuretic effect as toxins are excreted more effectively due to the incline.

RE Thread veins on the face. Some reports of improvements in thread veins have indicated that yours may improve and I see no reason why they should not. However no one to date has mentioned facial thread veins so this could prove rather interesting and if you could get your partner to provide us with a photograph of the effected area it will help to identify changes. If this is a problem then please do not feel pressurised, as this is not my intention.

Namaste

Andrew
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Offline OldDragon

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My camera is still not working, but the shape of my legs below the knees has certianly altered for the better,, so I'll do my best to find an alternate means to photograph them.

Today my stats are:

BP 133/88
Pulse:82;
Body Fat: 49.1%;
Body Water: 35%;
Body Muscle: 47.3%;
Respiration 9 per min.
Calves: Left 40cms; Right: 40cms.
Weight: 14st 10bs.

(These taken not long after returning home so not as well rested as would be ideal.)

No changes in suppliments.
No aspirin taken today but on regular doses of antihistamine tablets for hayfever and Salbutemol for asthma.

No lower back pain. (This despite additional work mucking out a stable daily.)


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Offline alun006

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Hi Andrew, I found keeping on top of your fluid intake makes a big difference when doing inclined bed therapy.

Also i have gained a great deal by trying to understand the theory side of inclined bed therapy especially the observation that i had made yesterday and today.

Yesterday, it was very hot and dry and i was particularly please with the way my vv looked, even to the point i ventured out on the evening with the dog with my shorts on, this has not happened since before i had them 15 years ago.

However, the next day it was 94% humidity and overcast. This made a difference to the look of my varicose veins and i felt disappointed about this until i remembered about the humidity part of andrews theory on inclined bed therapy.

This meant that i could understand that because i have only been on the ibt for 5 weeks my veins had reacted to the humidity in the air on that day, and i found this interesting to observe.

In other words a understand of the theory have befitted me greatly as well as the ibt itself.

This of course is thanks to Andrew, and the many questions he answers for me.

thankyou alun



« Last Edit: 28/07/2008 21:04:03 by alun006 »

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Offline Squirrel

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My Inclined Bed Therapy Experience.
5 years ago I inclined my bed to help with asthma and nasal problems Ė that worked wonderfully, I breathe quite easily now, however, over the past 28 years I have had several operations to remove and repair varicose veins, Which had recurred four times already and I was told by the surgeon that they would recur again. Both my mother and maternal grandmother suffered dreadfully with this complaint. I enjoy walking and the thought of eventually developing leg ulcers was quite terrifying to me as it would be to anyone, but my legs are fine now without even a hint of blue lines let alone lumps the size of walnuts, furthermore I have not suffered with any swelling in my legs or ankles since I began IBT.
It hadnít occurred to me that I no longer had a varicose vein problem because that wasnít why Iíd inclined my bed in the first place, that was a brilliant unexpected bonus.
The downside of having the bed inclined is that I tried ĎBotoxí (as we ladies of a certain age might) and it only worked for about a week. The cosmetic surgeon was amazed that the paralyzed muscles in my face repaired themselves so quickly. She said I should console myself with the fact that if I should ever have a stroke my facial muscles would be back to normal in double quick time!
When I go away on holiday where I don't have an inclined bed I have noticed that my nasal passages are usually blocked for part of the morning, and I feel quite sluggish and apparently my snoring is deafening. My partner suggests that we pack a few bricks into the cases so that he can get a decent night's sleep.

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Hi Squirrel Thank you for posting these valuable observations with repeated varicose vein surgery and your experience with using Botox. Both are fascinating, when first mentioned this was a revelation for me as I have been involved with neurological conditions as you know for many years and this proves what I have been stating about nerves recovering from impact or degenerative disease using Inclined Bed Therapy.

Itís a pity there are not more people using IBT that have tried botox to confirm this, but it would provide a great method of testing and compiling a protocol for a study to confirm the efficacy of IBT for spinal injury and other neurological conditions. If memory serves me well, you had this procedure repeated and the outcome was the same with a rapid recovery more than once? I have learned of several professional therapists in the USA who specialise in Spinal Cord Rehabilitation are already advising their patients to use IBT.

It is good to learn that you will not need further surgery on your veins in the foreseeable future and this can only mean than because the pressure inside the veins which was causing them to become swollen has now been reduced. Indicating that surgery success rates can be raised considerably and therefore substantially reducing the cost to the health service and the private patients.

It is great to learn about other implications for IBT and they are very important observations in their own right requiring further investigation and a controlled study to prove or disprove them.

Back to the purpose of this study.

I am very grateful for everyone that is helping me with this and the photographs and reports are indeed compelling. However we do need many more people to come forward and test this so I am thinking that an article in a newspaper, radio or tv programme would go a long way to finding some more people with varicose veins and / or oedema to help with our study.

Appeal.

If you are a member of a group, work in the health service, are a doctor or surgeon, or feel confident enough to ask your local newspaper to run a story about our study it would go a long way to helping us complete this study and move this discovery into mainstream practice and literature.

Andrew
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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A very interesting email from Alun about how humidity affects varicose veins. I have not come across this before but it certainly fits with the gravity flow theory for circulation because according to it we need relatively dry air to change the density of fluids

From: Alun
To: Andrew
 
Subject: fascinating observation made - humid situation effect my circulation possibly .
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:09:05 +0100

Hi Andrew
 
I woke up Yesterday morning after having a fantastically warm day, it was noticed that my vv were looking better. and seemed to be improving quite well,  I woke up this morning, and took the dog out, but noticed a haze of fog just above the trees, we are not two deep in the valley so this does not happen very much so I remember it.
 
I managed to look at my varicose veins but they were not looking as good as yesterday (as if I was observing a older photo of them), and this disappointed me slightly, as i was enjoying the improvement they had made as well as everything else.
 
I am right in thinking, as I am sure we have mentioned this before.  Is this misty fog and the sluggish (i.e. humid) day we are having here affecting the way my vvís are looking today, and the circulation?
 
Can you verify my findings here, look forward to hearing your opinion.
Alun
 
P.s. Can you recommend a self help for vv when the humidity is like this again. if possible ( or is there one?)


From: Andrew
To: Alun
Subject: RE: fascinating observation made - humid situation effect my circulation possibly .
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:51:53 +0000

Humidity in the high 90 % region has the same effect on the body as sleeping flat because it prevents us from changing the density of fluids from evaporation and in the lungs this is very important. High humidity means we are breathing in as much water as we are breathing out so this does not affect the solutes in the fluid and in the lung fluids and therefore has little to no effect on the flow through the body irrespective of posture. Combine High humidity with a horizontal bed and we have a double whammy on the body and this according to my theory will increase the death rates in valleys affected way above the national average. Leslie Munrow published statistical evidence to support this in relation to cot deaths increasing above the national average in river valley areas and low-lying coastal areas. So having some additional swelling is to be expected in these adverse conditions. This is the reason legs swell up in hot humid weather because the heart has to do more work and in doing so increases the pressure inside the veins causing fluids to seep through the vein walls into the limbs. Your report adds credence to the theory.


16įC
Current:Mostly Cloudy
Wind: E at 11 km/h
Humidity: 94%

RE: fascinating observation made - today and tomorrow
From: alun
Sent:
28 July 2008 15:08:24
To:
Andrew K Fletcher


Hi Andrew
 
This observation has been fascinating, because I had not expected these conditions and noticing the vv and then remembering the humid mist outside.
 
As i regularly use the incline bed over many months, will my body be-able to tolerate this types of condition when it arise.
i.e. will my body improve the way it reacts to this, when it happens later on in process.
 
Also, what had happened yesterday was a extremely hot day in which i had my shorts on, i was feeling confident about the way the veins were looking, even venturing out with the dog, this has not happened since i was 19 years old.
You would expect the heat to do the opposite, but they were looking good, not great, but good.
 
Were as today that confidence would not be there because of the humidity.
 
If i taken the photographs today for my 5 week report, i feel that i would not have the accurate results, as they would have been if i had took them the day before.
 
Do you know if i can get a humidity gauge of some sorts to use.
 
It must be frustrating if volunteers do not take note of the above happening, as they would probably feel that it was not working.
 
Thanks again Alun

From: Alun
To: Andrew
Subject: RE: next door neighbour - now up on bricks - my first recruite........
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:55:19 +0100

Hi Andrew
 
Old man of 78 next door, complained of urinating every hour, is now trying couple of bricks under his bed.
 
1st victory for me!!!
 
 
 
alun





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From: Andrew
To: Alun
Subject: RE: new photo - 4 - 5 week
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:02:59 +0000



Alun legs are still obviously improving and will continue to do so for many months to come until the veins are hardly noticeable at all. At times there will be some normal swelling and contracting as with any vein this is normal. However the overall trend from now on should be nice flat veins. As I said on the phone the longer the veins are flat the vein walls will contract and become stronger as with the balloon analogy I mentioned. (blowing up a balloon for the first time is harder than re-inflating a balloon) Same applies to varicose veins, if they remain flat for longer periods the veins should regain their elasticity and become more robust over months of IBT.

 
I just wish I could get more people to take part in this study. Fifty people and we could shame the current literature!
« Last Edit: 03/08/2008 09:30:28 by Andrew K Fletcher »
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Offline Squirrel

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Hi Andy,
Thanks for your reply - yes I did have botox on more than one occassion as the cosmetic surgeon couldn't believe that it had not worked for longer than 1 week so she gave me a freebie as an apology, however this only lasted a week as well so when I returned to see her again she said she couldn't give me any more as she had already given me more than she felt comfortable with, in fact is was a dose suitable for a large man (she said) and as I am only 5'-2" tall she was worried about overdosing.  Guess I shall just have to put up with the wrinkled forehead!

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Thanks for the confirmation. So here we have the same response to recovery from a botox injection known to cause paralysis in the nerve endings.

http://health.howstuffworks.com/botox1.htm
What is Botox?
Botoxģ is a trade name for botulinum toxin A. In this way, Botoxģ is related to botulism. Botulism is a form of food poisoning that occurs when someone eats something containing a neurotoxin produced by the bacterium Clostridium botulinum. Botulinum toxin A is one of the neurotoxins produced by Clostridium botulinum.
The most serious symptom of botulism is paralysis, which in some cases has proven to be fatal. The botulinum toxins (there are seven -- types are A through G) attach themselves to nerve endings. Once this happens, acetylcholine, the neurotransmitter responsible for triggering muscle contractions, cannot be released. A series of proteins, VAMP, syntaxin and SNAP-25, are essential for the release of acetylcholine. Certain botulinum toxins attack these proteins. Botulinum toxin A (Botox) affects the SNAP-25.

Basically, the botulinum toxins block the signals that would normally tell your muscles to contract. Say, for example, it attacks the muscles in your chest -- this could have a profound impact on your breathing. When people die from botulism, this is often the cause -- the respiratory muscles are paralyzed so itís impossible to breathe.
At this point, you may be wondering why anyone would want to have a botulinum toxin injected into his or her body. The answer is simple: If an area of the body can't move, it can't wrinkle.


Yet you have indicated that you have built up an immunity to botox regaining the nerve fuction after 1 week using inclined bed therapy, not once but two times and one time using a higher than normal dose of the neurotoxin. This is astonishing and requires further investigation in its own right!

Thank you for this. I have just the person in mind that should learn of your observations. A Doctor Wise Young from the Carecure forum who is involved with spinal cord injury research. I will write to him and ask him for a comment.
« Last Edit: 04/08/2008 09:46:42 by Andrew K Fletcher »
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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On Friday I injured the heel and bottom of my foot installing a huge rainwater tank at my home by back-heeling it into position. Needless to say the tank did not move. In addition to this I had been jumping up and down on the ground to flatten lumps of soil, again not the wisest of moves.

My right foot became very painful throughout the day and swollen, as one would expect from an injured foot. Walking became very painful and the heel of my foot was very tender to touch even with slight pressure. Yet in the morning after 1 night of IBT my foot was not painful and had no signs of swelling, although I could steel feel it was not normal and had sustained an injury it did not trouble me like it did the previous day

Throughout Saturday, Rather stupidly we went on a 3-mile walk with the dogs and a friend so my foot became quite badly swollen throughout the day and very painful. Yet the following morning my foot returned back to normal as indeed I expected it to do so having a sound understanding of the way oedema occurs and having seen the same results when my two sonís, and my wife and I have injured a foot previously and used IBT to resolve the oedema. Wife injured her foot on a skateboard (donít ask)

It occurred to me on Sunday that other people might want to see this before and after 1 day of IBT on a swollen foot so I took photographs yesterday teatime and more photographs this morning. When resting on the inclined bed my foot stopped throbbing almost immediately.
After 2 hours of IBT I went to the bathroom and noticed the swelling had gone done significantly and my foot was less painful to walk on albeit to the bathroom only.
The following morning my foot was almost the same size as the other foot and the oedema and pain / throbbing had resolved after only one night of Inclined Bed Therapy.

Andrew K Fletcher

Photographs taken prior to 1 night sleeping on an inclined bed. IBT




Photographs taken the following morning after 1 night using Inclined Bed Therapy.




Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline alun006

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Hi Andrew

I visited the beech today, and my legs feel great.

In both my vv and my knee pain this day would normally have been a issue for me, i was able to spend the hole day with the kids, aswell as walking up steep areas.  And this has not effected my legs at all, and it is all thanks to you.

You may find that some people don't listen, but i can't thankyou enough for making this information public and changing my life for the good.

It was my birthday on Sunday, and i definetly got a unforgettable present this year.

Alun

(And you have never asked for anything in return.)




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Offline OldDragon

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Happy belated birthday, Alun.  [;)]

Some stats for you, taken this morning but after a fair bit of activity, plus only two days after the chemo started and with a stack of anti-sickness pills in my system...

BP 132/76
Pluse:82;
Body Fat: 49.8%;
Body Water: 35.0%;
Body Muscle: 47.1%;
Respiration 9 per min.
Calves: Left 39cms; Right: 40cms.

Yesterday I felt fairly queasy following the first dose chemo on Monday, and didn't wish to be too far from the bathroom - especially as the IBS kicked off with a vengance, naturally aggravating the haemorrhoids - BUT nothing like as badly as I might usually expect in similar circumstances! They didn't bleed, as they would usually, which must be a good sign.

Today I feel quite good in the circumstances, and even managed to work the young pony for about half an hour. Which is another good sign.

Only possible negative is that I can't recall leaving my t-shirt around for the old grey-haired dog to lie on, and a friend remarked there were quite a few grey hairs clinging to the back of that! Odd, as they told me it wasn't usual to start losing any hair before the second week after chemo... Must be the old dog's! [;)] (Unless, of course, the IBT's pushing the chemo through the system faster?)

Whatever, managed to get my post out today and do a fair bit of work, so not complaining. Thanks, Andrew. [:D]

BTW - another potential film script title for consideration... 'Bed-Blockers (Anonymous)' - Suggested by the Pendraig and passed on at his request.
« Last Edit: 06/08/2008 18:07:31 by OldDragon »
Pain Promotes Growth - Suffering is Optional.

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Offline alun006

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Hi Old Dragon

Look after yourself, and i hope the side effects of your treatment do not stay with you two long.

I hope the ibt will eleviate some of them.

Look forward to hearing from you again.

alun

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Offline OldDragon

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Thanks, Alun. I am sure that the IBT is helping, along with other of Andrew's suggestions, and I'm not feeling too bad at all today, although the IBS doesn't seem to appreciate the anti-sickness pills!  [::)] At least I'm able to keep busy - steadily so! Believe me, when I say that I am the type of person who will hibernate IF I really feel ill, but prefer to carry on as and when able. Hate being idle or moping around, but do pace myself.  [;)]
Pain Promotes Growth - Suffering is Optional.

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Old Dragon
While your stats are impressive considering the toxins in your body from your treatments. In a PM you stated your rectal bleeding has increased considerably since your last post here. This is serious when you are on chemotherapy and radiotherapy and particularly when taking aspirin and other non-steroidal anti-inflamatory drugs. You need to contact your doctor ASAP.

Hate to be another pain in your already troubled posterior but we Really do need some pictures of your legs so we can see your progress with veins and oedema for comparison with your earlier photographs, can you knock on a neighbours door and ask if they have a digital camera and fancy doing a photo shoot for us, pretty please with knobs on.

Happy belated birthday, Alun.  [;)]

Some stats for you, taken this morning but after a fair bit of activity, plus only two days after the chemo started and with a stack of anti-sickness pills in my system...

BP 132/76
Pluse:82;
Body Fat: 49.8%;
Body Water: 35.0%;
Body Muscle: 47.1%;
Respiration 9 per min.
Calves: Left 39cms; Right: 40cms.

BTW - another potential film script title for consideration... 'Bed-Blockers (Anonymous)' - Suggested by the Pendraig and passed on at his request.

Put your health first please, the film script can wait.
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with