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Author Topic: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?  (Read 43326 times)

Offline Geezer

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QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #25 on: 23/04/2010 06:43:09 »
I doubt that our fate will be determined by breeding. Even the most uneducated humans are extremely clever.

It's all about society and education. So called "uncivilized" cultures tend to have great societies. The "civilized" cultures tend to have the greatest problems with antisocial behaviour (unless they are completely repressed.)

If we cannot reconcile society with civilization and recognize that we are only one society, we will extinguish ourselves.
 

Ultima

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« Reply #26 on: 22/05/2010 00:10:47 »
IQ tests apply to different aspects of the concept we call intelligence.  People can excel at particular IQ tests and be bad at others.  

Ophiolite, your comments are misleading.   For the sake of simplicity:

Artificial = man made
Natural = that which has evolved over billions of years

Reverse of natural selection = survival of the weakest
(I'd say possible, but not for very long)

Natural selection = Selection in a natural environment
(Humanity are more and more outside this scope and please don't say what we've created is natural, humanity has only been around for a fraction of natural history)

What Simon from Oz says is a serious matter if one is concerned about the future of humanity, and it is a matter of fact.  

Now some of my own thoughts.   It is entirely possibly to create an environment that causes a reduction in intelligence.   It is plausible that it is currently happening, linked in with a legacy of disease (and hence suffering) to future generations.

Given the rather selfish age we live in, ie the self being given higher importance than the community or future, the only recourse I can see is genetics as stated above - but this has potentially disastrous consequences.  

Further to that, we live more and more in an environment of toxic man-made chemicals that our bodies have no means of defence.   Thus there are other problems genetics cannot solve.

We have a gift in our ability to survive in relative comfort with the natural environment, gained since time immemorial.  Making genetic changes, most which have unforeseeable consequences, has the capacity of ruining this ability.
 

TomSwift

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« Reply #27 on: 26/07/2010 08:01:01 »
"and by that we mean that people with lesser education are having more children than people with more education"

With respect, education is not the same as intelligence.

Second, The Bell Curve makes it clear that the welfare state actually increases this problem by giving poor people more money for children. So "making society more equal" is not a cure.

Personally though I'm more concerned with personality traits. ADD and other disorders are probably caused by letting people who are so emotional/impulsive that they forget to use a condom outbreed the responsible. If we let people who can not focus past their orgasm outbreed us, we should not be surprised when we have a group of children that can't focus for more than 5 minutes...
 

Offline cheryl j

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QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #28 on: 22/11/2011 01:21:07 »
Well, one could argue that if we lose a few IQ points, it might be worth it if the rich, greedy resource hogging SOBs at the top become extinct. Just sayin'.
 

Offline imatfaal

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QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #29 on: 22/11/2011 11:25:57 »
Well, one could argue that if we lose a few IQ points, it might be worth it if the rich, greedy resource hogging SOBs at the top become extinct. Just sayin'.
The greedy resource hungry top fraction that invented the electric light; developed modern medicine; wrote heart-rending poetry; composed magnificent opera; thought of the wheel, fire, tool-use, and the digital watch; visited the moon, eradicated small-pox ...  terrible drain on society we can live without em!  sooner we get back to living in dark caves the better, damn it perhaps moving out of the oceans was a bad idea in the first place


h/t to the wonderful d.a.
 

Offline CZARCAR

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QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #30 on: 22/11/2011 17:32:44 »
Well, one could argue that if we lose a few IQ points, it might be worth it if the rich, greedy resource hogging SOBs at the top become extinct. Just sayin'.
The greedy resource hungry top fraction that invented the electric light; developed modern medicine; wrote heart-rending poetry; composed magnificent opera; thought of the wheel, fire, tool-use, and the digital watch; visited the moon, eradicated small-pox ...  terrible drain on society we can live without em!  sooner we get back to living in dark caves the better, damn it perhaps moving out of the oceans was a bad idea in the first place


h/t to the wonderful d.a.
u 4got yachts,private jets,NASCAR & toys in general + the progress involves $ which favors the rich & results in preempting evolution?
 

Offline cheryl j

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QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #31 on: 22/11/2011 19:07:33 »
The greedy resource hungry top fraction that invented the electric light; developed modern medicine; wrote heart-rending poetry; composed magnificent opera; thought of the wheel, fire, tool-use, and the digital watch; visited the moon, eradicated small-pox ...  terrible drain on society we can live without em!  sooner we get back to living in dark caves the better, damn it perhaps moving out of the oceans was a bad idea in the first place


h/t to the wonderful d.a.

Well, for every Bill Gates, there's probably a lot more Paris Hiltons, so I'm sure it will balance out IQ wise in the end.
 

Offline satrah

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QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #32 on: 11/12/2011 05:30:55 »
Having a high level of intelligence does not make a person a superior person for breeding. I have lived with university students doing their masters degree and lack in fundamental life skill: student number one. I watch this student for two weeks trying to ride a pushbike in the backyard with half flat tyres and going in 3 meters circles and falling off repeatedly. Student also doing masters cannot use a screw driver at all he passed it to me and said “can you do”. Student 3 doing masters in Information technology needed help with knowledge on virus protection and how to reinstall windows operating system.  OMG how did these people get in to uni

 I have lived with drug users and alcoholics that had kept the house cleaner then these people. Just because people are at university does not make a person educated it just means they have meet the basis requirement to get into university. Just because a student has completed their university degree does not make them qualified, it only mean they have complete the basis requirement to complete the course.

I have been told all my life that I have to be smart to get in to uni. Now I am in my second year of uni.  5 year ago I could hardly read or write. So be kind on my grammar skill, I’m slowly getting there .
 

Offline widereader

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #33 on: 21/12/2011 13:54:47 »
Well, in the Gaussian curve, we can see that there are a little number of smart people, a lot of average people, and a little number of not so clever people.  Since smart people  plan very well for their kids and their future, they tend to produce a small number of kids compared to the not so clever who do not think of their children's future. There is a possibility that the stupid will outbreed the clever.
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #34 on: 24/12/2011 16:27:13 »
I just cant believe that human intelligence is such a simple and consistant trait in groups or families that it can be selected for so easily in a few generations. How many successful businessmen did not come from especially privileged backgrounds? How many kids with rich, smart parents end up doing absolutely nothing with their lives or self destructing? How many US presidents have had a derelict, idiot brother? How do you do explain Billy Carter? Have you ever seen Clinton's mom on TV?
« Last Edit: 26/12/2011 20:05:54 by cheryl j »
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #35 on: 24/12/2011 17:02:25 »
In a way this is educated BS. We've existed on this planet for quite a bit, and we've come far in the last centuries. It had nothing to do with 'selective breeding', and after the second world war this kind of unfresh 'educated speculation' was gone. But people apparently have a inbreed need to make themselves better than the next one, and so this comes back, again and again.

How about checking up ones own ancestors, I will guarantee you all to have had some really stupid people in your family tree. Would you have liked us to stop them from breeding? Then you might not be here at all, and neither would your 'education' be. Give me a break, to name some hypothesis with a nice Greek/latin name to make it sound all scientific, like phrenology, doesn't make it true. Genetics seems to become the new buzzword here, and to be honest, reading some views makes me wonder where we are and what the he* education stands for.

We just can't stop deciding other peoples life's, can we?
 

Offline Lor

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #36 on: 26/12/2011 07:08:46 »
........"ADD and other disorders are probably caused by ....." thats an intelligent
objective observation totally based on fact...NOT! your whole post is dripping with prejudicial, slanted statements driven by snobbery and anger. Some educated people are really dumb, some are very intelligent as are poor people you spoke so nice of .

Now to voice my 2 cents-We are living on the forefront of an amazing time-the computer has brought forth a technological renaissance so to speak-with medicine and science gaining leaps and bounds in advancement. But we as human beings, in most peoples minds ,advanced,but animals none the less-have managed to populate, pollute the earth to the point of beginning to kill off ocean inhabitants,ruin the environment to the point of global warming, speeding up the ice age coming-maybe too fast for most life to adapt they say..i could go on and on but as Mark Twain once said-we believe we are a higher life form than all other animals  but we arent-we're inferior.and as we continue to eat up every last natural resource and over populate the earth and still refuse to see the end we just prove it once again.

So as far as natural selection theory goes-is the accumulation of knowlege and our own 'top 1% percent of population labeled intelligent' the real problem?  By some criteria you would have to say yes. There are tribes in Africa secluded from the outside world without modern conveniences and they have no problem with food supply, hunger,they aren't polluting the earth etc. Doesn't this fall right in line with the theory? natural selection at its best? is intelligence and knowledge necessarily superior and a desired selection  in evolution?
« Last Edit: 26/12/2011 16:01:44 by jazzderry »
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #37 on: 06/05/2012 22:11:22 »
It is not just nature you know. 3000 girls under the age of 16 years old have a baby in one year in Britain. This means that not only are these babies being born to very stupid girls and boys but also there are children being brought up by children.
Forgive me for being vauge. I just woke up and am very groggy.
I don't see a direct relation between young girls and boys and low inteligence. The only relation I see how horny they are and the culture they are in which promotes promiscuity in the young.
 

Offline Ophiolite

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #38 on: 09/05/2012 11:33:38 »
I agree with Pmb. My IQ is approxiamtely 150, but the only thing that stopped me becoming a teenage parent was fortuitous ugliness.
 

Offline UniqueObserver

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #39 on: 14/06/2012 17:47:48 »
have to agree with jazzderry... surely natural selection apllied to todays society would favour the non-intellectual because it has proven to give the highest number of offspring on avg and after all thats what its all about right.... i mean, you dnt really have to worry about your child starving to death in most parts of the world, disease and dehydration, all basic needs that no longer register as obstacles to reproduction, therefore the only restrictions left are time and energy which is pretty much finite so if you spend it on work you sacrafise at home and if you're at home a lot you're going to have children..its instinct
 

Offline Ophiolite

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #40 on: 20/06/2012 08:30:57 »
You assume intellectuals are born, not made.
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #41 on: 21/06/2012 02:57:16 »
One thing we tend to forget is that we really are artificially delaying reproduction in humans. While getting pregnant when you are 17 may not be the best life choice, you can't really call it pathological. I would argue it is the default mode of human behavior, unless there is some compelling reason not to - educational or career ambitions, strong religious beliefs, etc. So it may have less to do with intelligence and more to do with how optimistic some young men and women are about their future.
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #42 on: 16/07/2012 14:45:59 »
The sooner you do it the better the material :)
As I know.

Then we have society, will it support you?
Or will it condemn you?

There's a lot of BS going round Cheryl.
Not what you think though :)
 

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« Reply #43 on: 25/12/2014 17:09:42 »
average IQ and its distribution is not going to change because its a statistical normalization over a population sample.  So even though people may have been significantly higher intelligence say 4 centuries ago,  the average person still had an IQ of 100.  Define average of a population and you have 100.  So whether that population is stupider or smarter in a relative sense, makes no difference.  Unless you could arrange to resurrect the populace from the grave and compare them to another populace in individual scores, the idea of IQ is totally just a present tense affair and measure of the current populations average IQ which will always be a 100 and the standard deviation distribution will be the same bell shaped curve.  

So unless you mean intelligence outside of IQ testing, the idea of comparing IQ points is ridiculous.  But to answer the question, yes the world is getting stupider and its scary when people don't even know that IQ of the average will always be a 100 no matter how degenerated the people get.
 

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« Reply #44 on: 12/01/2015 06:16:31 »
In case you haven't gotten the memo, the stupid people are not only out breeding the intelligent, but are also running the planet.  Look no further than to the scores of political leaders that litter the planet with putrid unproven policy, but these skilled ruthless BSers think the mere fact they are in charge, via fraud, makes them smarter, because they scammed those stupid enough to believe in ethics and intelligence.  Guess what, they are invincibly ignorant, there is no fix for that, and they want to reduce the population of anyone who disagrees, which of course are the enlightened intelligent minority of earth's population.  So, since these idiots are in charge, then guess what, the world will spin into chaos, because they know no better.  If you have an IQ of 140 or better, you had better breed or the end result will be eventual extinction of the human race.  You not only have to breed but lead.  I know that puts a real crimp on your day, but think about this, if you don't they will.
 

Offline DMT

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QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #45 on: 25/03/2015 01:11:31 »
Though education is definitely a factor. I also think education does not always equal intelligence. When we think of the idea of education we think of people becoming doctors, lawyers, successful business men etc. But many men and women in Canada graduate College with two or three year degrees in debt to the "financial assistance" they have received from the government. Due to increased amount of College and University graduates in this country there is a flood of graduates with a very minimal number of jobs available. So education does not necessarily mean financial stability or intelligence in other areas other than the degree taken. I could go on about this subject but it is diverging from my original point that education doesn't equal life intelligence.

 People who have way too many children then they can afford, or raise in an ideal family environment tend to lack the ability to predict the outcomes of their actions. They just reproduce without thinking about every factor of raising a child i.e. financial, emotional, stability, morality. They are often selfish and only think about their own desire to have more children and not about what that is going to mean for the rest of the family and the unborn. Less attention, resources, quality of life, quality of time. Many people have multiple children in a marriage or relationship that is destructive and troubled, and don't stop to think that maybe they should try to fix their lives and relationship with each other before having a child or introducing more. People often have multiple children with different partners, not thinking at all about the outcome. Intelligent people think towards the future and understand and predict what will come to be if they have multiple children they can't afford or raise into happy, healthy, informed, intelligent, awesome people that are an asset to this world and a pleasure to be around. To be intelligent is to be insightful, honest, informed and aware. People walk around with their eyes shut  to the their truth and will pass this along to their multiple offspring.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #46 on: 25/03/2015 08:29:37 »
Solution: abolish all child benefits and pay women £500 (or local equivalent) every 6 months if the are not pregnant. Longterm this will save huge amounts of public money and discourage early, frequent breeding. If we reproduce below the replacement rate we will increase the working fraction of the population, thus providing more money per capita for state pensions and health services.
 

Offline David Cooper

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #47 on: 25/03/2015 17:23:13 »
In a world where it's hard to get decent employment, is it so unintelligent for some people to exploit the system by becoming professional breeders? If you have twenty children, you will be given a nice mansion to live in and lots of money which can be spent carefully in ways which can give you a high quality of life - you might even be able to buy a horse. People like that will improve the intelligence of the species rather than suppress it.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #48 on: 25/03/2015 20:18:51 »
In a world where it's hard to get decent employment,
why make more unemployables?

And in those parts of the world where food is scarce, why make more mouths?
 

Offline David Cooper

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #49 on: 25/03/2015 20:43:20 »
In a world where it's hard to get decent employment,
why make more unemployables?

There soon won't be any work for anyone, but that's no reason to reduce the population to zero.

Quote
And in those parts of the world where food is scarce, why make more mouths?

There's enough food at the moment - it just needs fair distribution.
 

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Re: QotW - 09.05.24 - Will the stupid outbreed the clever?
« Reply #49 on: 25/03/2015 20:43:20 »

 

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