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Offline neilep

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Re: Love
« Reply #400 on: 16/08/2006 02:15:40 »
quote:
Originally posted by another_someone

quote:
Originally posted by neilep
Would you consider people who are vulnerable and gullible in the same group.



Trying to work out what this means within the context of my hypothesis.

It was just a question that perhaps a similar theory could be presented that the gullible and vulnerable may also have a propensity to addiction...along with people who easily fall in love.....as they may easily succumb to dependency on drugs and succumb to love also.
quote:

Personally I don't subscribe to it ...What I mean is,It's not your theory I don't subscribe to (I'm all ears) but that I am one of those people who have fallen in love very very easily on more than one occasion...but I consider myself in every other aspect someone with a low propensity to addiction.

tried smoking....found I could take it or leave it.....chose to leave it...

same with alcohol...not bothered !

Yes..shock horror have tried recreational drugs....no joy there (to try and help me sleep)

....perhaps I have just not found my addiction yet !....perhaps evertyone here is capable of becoming addicted to something !



I think the current tendency is to believe that some people have a stronger propensity for getting addicted to anything, and that this trait is not substance specific (although there may be other variables that might make the application of that addiction more likely to be triggered by a particular substance).

I am sure the tendency that some people have a stronger propensity to addiction has always been there. Perhaps nowadays it's just being recognised. Certainly I can well believe that there may be extraneous factors intrinsic to the onset of an addiction.

That you say you have fallen in love very easily on more than one occasion leaves to to ask, possibly somewhat indelicately, did you also fall out of love as easily?  That you could fall in love easily is one thing, but could you give up that love as easily as you could give up tobacco?

I do not need to answer that...it's besides the point ! Your premise is that people who become addicted to substances  may be prone to falling in love easier than others who are not addicted to substances. Since I am not dependent on any substance (save food and water) it's not a moot point....save for the fact that I am not addicted ..which in itself my be statistical anomaly then !


quote:

This is fascinating !...would you care to elaborate ?



OK, I'll go through the thought process that lead to this conclusion.

If one accepts the premise that there is such a thing as an addictive personality type, and that this is an inheritable trait (what I understand is that this is the current thinking on the matter), then why should this be so?

What happens when this current thinking goes out of fashion ? When you say addictive personality types , do you specifically mean drugs ?..Before a junkie has his/her first fix are they addicted ?..I am just wondering what is it that triggers the addiction in the addictive personalty save the psychological or biological dependency after they have had their first few hits. Of course there are other types of addictions ...food...dancing..Internet forums..adrenalin junkies etc I wonder if a person can go through life without their propensity to addiction ever materialising

For an inheritable trait to survive, then it would imply that there are some situations in which that trait may be of benefit to the species.  Since, on the most obvious level, addictive personality types are at a disadvantage, so in what context might it be an advantage.

We all have inheritable traits, many are so subtle that they can barely be recognised until a very specific event occurs for the trait to be displayed. I agree that addictive personality types may be vulnerable to disadvantage.


Clearly, it is possible to argue that even deleterious genetic traits will continue to survive within a species, but they will only survive at a very low level (we don't see a massive number of haemophiliacs being born, yet we do seem to see a large number of people with a propensity for addiction being born why so?).

Clearly, the human genome was not evolved to deal with concentrated opiates, or regular supplies of concentrated alcohol so it is clear that addiction to these substances is just an unfortunate modern manifestation of something that historically must have had some other purpose.

I'm not disagreeing..I find this fascinating George...But would not the fact that for thousands of years people have been getting drunk and getting high have an effect on the human genome ?..I don't know...but I expect the answer is no then.
So the question is, what primitive (in the sense of being common throughout human history, from the earliest days) human behaviour might be similar to addiction, and yet may be beneficial to the species?

The answer that came to mind was love.  In its most obsessive form, love can show many of the manifestations of any addiction.  Ofcourse, love can come in both sexual and platonic forms, and I am still undecided the degree to which each of these fit the requirements.  Sexual love has the added benefit the sexual act releases endorphins, which can themselves lead to addiction (this is also a case that excessive exercise can cause the release of endorphins, and can also be addictive).

Do you think the same might apply to people with a proclivity for the darker side of things ?..people who enjoy the sadistic qualities of life ?...who may dwell on hate !..or to confuse the issue the Love of hate !! ?


Thank you George ...very interesting stuff.



George




Men are the same as women, just inside out !
« Last Edit: 16/08/2006 02:18:19 by neilep »
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: Love
« Reply #401 on: 16/08/2006 04:21:38 »
I have been in love twice and the first time it took a long time to get there. The second time was so much different, I knew so quickly and it was full on up in your face kind of love. Intense erotic incredible and totally totally enraptured and it put me hopelessly head over teakettle in love! I don't believe it is ever easy to fall out of love. It happens but I think it takes a really long time and even then there are feelings that you are hopelessly left to drag around with you untill you are emotionally ready to let it go!
Sometimes I think that that takes something more drastic to happen to let go!!


Karen
 

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Re: Love
« Reply #402 on: 16/08/2006 11:31:20 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep
It was just a question that perhaps a similar theory could be presented that the gullible and vulnerable may also have a propensity to addiction...along with people who easily fall in love.....as they may easily succumb to dependency on drugs and succumb to love also.



People who are gullible or vulnerable may be more likely to try dangerous things, but I am not sure that this is the same as having an addictive personality (the only indirect argument would be that someone who is not vulnerable to trying an addictive situation or substance may be protected against their own addictive personality trait, but that is not the same as the trait not being there).

quote:
quote:

That you say you have fallen in love very easily on more than one occasion leaves to to ask, possibly somewhat indelicately, did you also fall out of love as easily?  That you could fall in love easily is one thing, but could you give up that love as easily as you could give up tobacco?


I do not need to answer that...it's besides the point ! Your premise is that people who become addicted to substances  may be prone to falling in love easier than others who are not addicted to substances. Since I am not dependent on any substance (save food and water) it's not a moot point....save for the fact that I am not addicted ..which in itself my be statistical anomaly then !


Ofcourse, the question is indelicate, and you are under no obligation to respond to it.

Possibly you are right that the statement that people who are more prone to addiction are more likely to fall in love was badly phrased, since the nature of an addictive personality is not the probability that someone will try something (in that respect, it may be a closer analogy to your suggestion of gullibility), but rather the difficulty someone faces in giving up something.  In that respect, I should have said that someone with an addictive personality was likely to be less fickle in love (i.e. once in love, are less likely to fall out of love), since this would draw the closer analogy with an addictive personality.

quote:
quote:

If one accepts the premise that there is such a thing as an addictive personality type, and that this is an inheritable trait (what I understand is that this is the current thinking on the matter), then why should this be so?



What happens when this current thinking goes out of fashion ?



One cannot say what would happen when one's knowledge of a situation changes since one can only work with knowledge that one has, not with knowledge that is yet to come.

quote:

When you say addictive personality types , do you specifically mean drugs ?



Although drugs, including tobacco and alcohol, are the simplest to study, the trait covers all addiction, including gambling and addiction to exercise.

quote:

Before a junkie has his/her first fix are they addicted ?



No, an addictive personality type is not the same as an addiction.

The point about an addictive personality type is that someone who is not exposed to an addictive stimuli is no more an addict whether they are or are not an addictive personality type; but someone who is exposed to an addictive stimuli and is an addictive personality type will quicker and more easily become addicted to that stimuli than someone who does not have an addictive personality type.

quote:

.I'm not disagreeing..I find this fascinating George...But would not the fact that for thousands of years people have been getting drunk and getting high have an effect on the human genome ?..I don't know...but I expect the answer is no then



The question is not inevitably no, but even if this is the case, would such an addiction to such substances amount to an adaptive advantage I cannot see it?

Certainly, there are genetic traits, which even if the are ancient in origin, can vary in propensity over relatively short periods of time.  Thalassemia  and sickle cell anaemia can alter frequency in the population quite rapidly since they offer adaptive advantages to malaria, and because they leave traces in the bone, archaeologists can use them to measure how much stress the population was under from malaria.

quote:

Do you think the same might apply to people with a proclivity for the darker side of things ?..people who enjoy the sadistic qualities of life ?...who may dwell on hate !..or to confuse the issue the Love of hate !! ?



I do think that the passions of love and hate can have a common root, and those who can love the most intensely very possibly can hate the most intensely; but I don't actually believe that hate and sadism are at all the same thing (sadism is not personal a sadist usually is not particular about whom he is sadistic towards, whereas hate is a very personal thing, being directed very specifically to a single person, or a particular group of people).  Ofcourse, this is not to say that someone with a propensity towards sadism may not use a hatred as a justification for the expression of that sadistic tendency, but I don't believe that the hatred is the actual cause of the sadistic tendency.




George
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Love
« Reply #403 on: 16/08/2006 22:41:40 »
Love

What is it?

The most natural ainkiller that there is.

The last diary entry of William S. Burroughs.

Not sure if I have the quote exact but it was along those lines.

- Steven

 

Offline Mirage

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Re: Love
« Reply #404 on: 17/08/2006 22:08:06 »
I like to believe that love is something that cannot be explained, or even an attempted explaination.

I feel that people put too much thought into the things that should be left unexplained, untainted! I don't care much to know if it's chemical reactions. I do love science but there are times I feel it brings up unnecessary logic and ideals.
Love is something to be experienced not analysed.

But that's just me.

Sorry if someone else has written something similar already but 9 pages are a lot to read especially while at work.

Some days it's not even worth knawing at the straps
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Love
« Reply #405 on: 18/08/2006 01:39:20 »
I want everything explained. Scratch that. I want to understand how everything works.

- Steven
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Love
« Reply #406 on: 18/08/2006 03:31:22 »
Love is a many splendored thing ! *le sigh*

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

Offline moonfire

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Re: Love
« Reply #407 on: 18/08/2006 03:55:50 »
Don't ask me...I will skew your view at this point.... :-P

"Lo" Loretta
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: Love
« Reply #408 on: 18/08/2006 04:06:23 »
...when two lovers meet on a crowded street and the world stood still.....AHHHH! I love love!!!!


Loretta, so glad to see you! are you alright friend??? Hows your Heart tonight? Love to you.....


Karen
 

Offline moonfire

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Re: Love
« Reply #409 on: 18/08/2006 06:47:09 »
Karen, let's say I am glad to be at work right now...blah...my mood is blah...ick...Denny is at my house...I am thinking about if I should go home or crash at a friend's house as she has given me her key and told me I should come over....but I don't want to intrude on her life...I am just b----- out...you know the word aagghh...crudola!  I am a villian in this mix...Magnum is upset with me...mom has called me twice and said I am not being nice to Denny...geez, get a grip...They think I should go back with him...but that non-communication for 4 days, insecurity crud, and much more thing kicked my behind....I was doing fine and almost fainted when I saw him at my job had no earthly clue he was in town or he was going to the wedding...I have thought until my brain is literally hurting...I thought I was completely over him...yeah, right...I have cried in front of him, behind his back...but hate that sometimes we make choices we regret...even though I still have feelings for him, I don't regret my choice!  I know it was right even though everyone else does not think so...I am not even sure how long he is going to be here...he won't say...if he doesn't go, I will rent an apartment so he can live with my mom and child since they think I am a villian...It is so cold going into my house...ewwww...it is an awkward feeling...seeing him for the first time in 7 or 8 months was weird too...??  One of my co-workers thought I would be glad to see him as he told her it was a surprise I was in town...(they did not know we were broke up)I was so stunned she said I turned white as a sheet....?

"Lo" Loretta
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: Love
« Reply #410 on: 18/08/2006 08:04:09 »
Well sounds like a week for shocks!![:0] Loretta you are the only one who knows whats best for you!!;) Remember that Honey!!:) "To thine on self be true."[^]
 LOve to you and have a safe trip!!!:)


Karen
 

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Re: Love
« Reply #411 on: 18/08/2006 09:00:45 »
quote:
Originally posted by Mjhavok

I want everything explained. Scratch that. I want to understand how everything works.

- Steven



Yes, I can go along with that - it is just the natural curiosity of a child that we have never grown out of.



George
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: Love
« Reply #412 on: 20/08/2006 16:34:34 »
Good Morning George, or good afternoon to you! Have a great day!
  Steven did you ever try the avocado, Friend??? Sprinkle a little tiny bit of salt on it. it is wonderfull. I like them plain or with a bit of salt or garlic. Yummmmm!


Karen
« Last Edit: 20/08/2006 16:37:01 by Karen W. »
 

Offline cranial_implant

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Re: Love
« Reply #413 on: 20/08/2006 17:56:02 »
I love to mix avocado with a little garlic, salt and a very very finely diced onion and then spread it on toast or make it into a sandwich. I love it. But, they are fattening !

My head is not what it used to be.
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: Love
« Reply #414 on: 20/08/2006 18:24:37 »
Actually, I used to think that, but The doctor told me that the type of fat in avocodos was the good kind and it would be beneficial to my heart and cholesterol to eat one a day! I had no problem with that, I do not have high cholesterol, but also do not intend to get it!! I will have to try your idea as I love them. Try a blt on a bagel with avacodos...spread cream cheese on the bagel!!

Karen
« Last Edit: 25/08/2006 08:24:11 by Karen W. »
 

Offline moonfire

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Re: Love
« Reply #415 on: 21/08/2006 00:50:24 »
You are right Karen, I am staying true to myself...aagghh!

"Lo" Loretta
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: Love
« Reply #416 on: 21/08/2006 16:00:04 »
Love ya Loretta, We are pluggin for you!!

Karen
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Love
« Reply #417 on: 21/08/2006 16:13:39 »
Yes LO...I would love to plug you too !!...errhhmm  (clears throat)!!..I mean I am plugging for you also !! :)

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: Love
« Reply #418 on: 22/08/2006 03:35:05 »
Come on Girl Chin Up I need you here! We can cry in each others buckets!!!Or on the shoulders. I prefer the buckets because lately there has been aenough to fill one up!! Oh Lo I amso sorry and want you to come back and help me zop thes ad guys with your sceptor!!LOL

Karen
 

Offline moonfire

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Re: Love
« Reply #419 on: 22/08/2006 03:49:18 »
You are so funny!  I was out with my mother today celebrating all 71 years of her young self motivating her for her 1st vacation this year...yes, she has agreed...I am going to put her on a schedule every 3 months again!  I will help you save the forum from those bad ol' villians of cyberspace...LOL

"Lo" Loretta
 

Offline moonfire

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Re: Love
« Reply #420 on: 22/08/2006 03:50:17 »
Neil you are so KRAZY!!!  LOL  Thanks for your support...or I think?  LOL

"Lo" Loretta
 

Offline otis01

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Re: Love
« Reply #421 on: 23/08/2006 16:10:07 »
Love is a clue. Its a clue to the possibility of what we all have the potential to feel all the time about everyone and everything.
 The first "romantic" love is quite often the most intense experience of love each person has. It wasn't a delusion or illusion. It was untainted Love. It was Love experienced for what it is, experienced by who you are; a silent, witnessing soul.

 It was not clouded by the mind-- not clouded by guilt, fears, suspicions, anxiety, questions. Not judged by your mind, who has been hurt. That first Love was simply witnessed and experienced and not judged constantly by your mind: a mind soon clouded with pain and suffering.
 
 That love is hard to find twice; because we have months, years, even decades of fear and hurt built up, creating artificial prison walls that make it hard for us to let our Love out. And let Love in.

 Love is real. It comes from the only place that matters- Nowhere. The mystery of Love will never be revealed until it is finally revealed. Then, I think we'll see the reason for the mystery is so we continue the search until the Truth is revealed. From that perspective, I imagine we will see the mystery was never really a mystery, nor did it matter.  

 Let go of all judgement, all fears, all guilt, all jealousy, all envy, all thought... Simply let go of the addiction to thought itself- Then you will find what is left. What you were born with. What you are. Silence. And ultimately-Love.
 

Offline moonfire

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Re: Love
« Reply #422 on: 23/08/2006 20:39:15 »
Love is what we make of it or not....blah!  LOL :-P

"Lo" Loretta
 

Offline Grecian

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Re: Love
« Reply #423 on: 23/08/2006 20:54:48 »



Nice thought though.


Love you lots

Helena  xxx


 

Offline moonfire

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Re: Love
« Reply #424 on: 23/08/2006 21:41:05 »
Oh, drats!  Just when I have a good 5 seconds to dampen the spirits...here comes pinky romance...lol  I should've known you could sense me over on this section...now where is Queenie Mod...I expect her 2 pence worth!  LOL

"Lo" Loretta
 

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Re: Love
« Reply #424 on: 23/08/2006 21:41:05 »

 

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