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Author Topic: God real or not  (Read 234300 times)

Offline ukmicky

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #175 on: 29/05/2006 00:22:59 »
ejirolove30
I found the answers to the questions I asked you after looking at the website you posted and I can now see why you didn’t wish to answer me as the answers are not exactly what I would consider believable and in most cases are laughable

Q: How did Jonah actually survived in a whale’s stomach for three days.
A: There was air in the whale’s stomach allowing him to breath either that or he died and then was brought back too life by god.

Q  How long ago were the dinosaurs walking on the earth?
A: 4500 years ago,they came off the ark with all the other land animals.

Q: Where's all the water from the great flood in the Noah’s ark story gone. And don’t say it’s now underground because you’re talking about enough water to cover the highest mountains.
A: There were no mountains only high hills. The land mass then rose trapping the water in the valleys; Mount Everest grew in the last 4500 years after the flood.


Q. How did Noah get around to every region of the world and find every animal.
A: He didn’t, all the animals even came to him.

Q: How did the animals from far flung places like Australia get to the ark
A: 4500 Years ago the earth was either a single land mass or their was an ice age locking up so much water that it created land bridges allowing animals like kangaroos to get to the ark.

Q: How did Noah re-populate the world, did he drop off every animal from where they came from.
A: No they all walked home.


Q: I know what is supposed to of happened to the birds but what about the bees and all the other insects.
A: NOAH only took things which could breath through there nostrils, most insects breath through there skins and so were able to survive. And those which had difficulty surviving took to rafts made out of twigs and debris.

Q: What did the lions and tigers etc eat in the first weeks when they were freed.
A: Something’s we don’t know the answers to, all we know is they just survived and the proof to that is the fact that most of them are alive today.
 

Q: What happened to all the plants and trees did Noah have a seed bank or something.
A: They all died but their seeds survived under the water and re-populated the world once the water had gone.


CONCLUSION
I have no problem with people believing in a god,its actually a nice thought that their could be something watching over us but I can't believe in the bible or the creationist’s interpretation of it, as to do so would be stupid.  None of the creationist’s arguments contain facts, and nothing can be scientifically tested like evolution and natural selection can.
 
So I know which one I would put my money on.


Michael
« Last Edit: 29/05/2006 04:04:04 by ukmicky »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #176 on: 29/05/2006 01:11:46 »
Great Posts Michael.

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

Offline JimBob

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #177 on: 29/05/2006 02:50:23 »
There is no defending belief but there is a check of facts. I believe that I can be trusted to check bible facts. I was brought up ultra-hardshell Baptist, my great-grandfather rode circut in the back hills of southeast Tennessee befeor 1900. I learned the Bible backwards and forwards, had a perfect 12 year attendence in Sunday School from age 5 to 17 and .

So lets look at the Bible facts:

quote:
Originally posted by ejirolove30

Well here is where people make the biggest mistake.  The earth was not created 6000 yrs ago.  Humans were created 6000 yrs ago.  There is a big gap from genesis chapter 1 and gensis chapter 2.  
 
Remember in the bible it states that when the devil rebelled against God that he and 1/3 of the angels were cast down to the earth.  That was before Genesis chapter 2.  The bible does that state when the world was created, it said in the beginning. Could have been millions if not billions of years ago.



So it follows very logically from the 6000 year age of man that a day does not mean 24 hours. Does the Bible say a day is 6000 years long - anywhere? NO. A day is a defined in Genesis 1:5. A day is " the evening and the morning". If one part of the Bible is to be taken literally, then all of it must be taken literally. Noone can pick and choose which parts are to be taken literally and which are to be interpreted AND be consistent in their logic.

Secondly - A Challenge - Where in the Bible does it say, I quote you that "when the devil rebelled against God that he and 1/3 of the angels were cast down to the earth" ??? In Matthew 25:41  is says "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: ..." But where in the Bible does it say the devil rebelled or that 1/3 of the angels were thrown down? It doesn't. Your belief is one you were taught by someone else or something you made up. It seems not to be based on YOUR reading of the Bible, the Bible being the only teacher you can depend on. Where in the Bible is the story that tells you the angels were cast out of Heaven and thrown into Hell? Tell me.

I am teachable and will admit I am wrong but I will not be convinced unless the story of the fall is literal.

MY POINT:

I am a Christian. I have been one all my life. Christianity (and God) as you would have us believe is incompatable with (my brand of) science. That I believe dinosaurs lived more than 65 million years ago does not damn me. It is mearly that I believe the way God set in motion the Universe is unknown to Humans. God is beyond any human knowlege.

If christians had been correct through all of history, they would not have believed the earth was flat, that the earth was the center of the universe, nor burned Bruno at the stake for saying Aristotle was wrong. Christians have been wrong about science of the demonstrable and provable for a long time and will continue to be in the future. Belief in God does not damn modern science. YOU damn it.

By saying "you fool" to us, you condemn yourself. (Matthew 5:22) Take care of and educate your own soul before you try to teach others what is or is not righteous. Being a Sadducee (literalist) is not a winning position. (That is in the Bible.)

I cannot say I am right or wrong.  I do know I cannot tell another person that they are wrong.  (Matthew 7:3-5)






The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein
 

Offline neilep

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #178 on: 29/05/2006 04:15:09 »
Excellent Post Jim.

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #179 on: 29/05/2006 05:13:56 »
Oh boy!!! Did i say a day is 6000 yrs long? I said there is a big gap between genesis 1 and genesis chapter 2. Some believe God created the earth millions or even billions of years ago Genesis 1.  God in genesis 2 created man, it did not say that God created man when he created earth.  Read and you will see the big gap for yourself between those 2 chapters.

Isa 14:12-15, spoke of satan cast down to the earth.  The bible call those who say there is no God a fool. Because evidence of His existence is all around us.  People say evolution can be proven, but it cant. Only the fools will say that man who is created with his nose in the right position, not facing up or when the rain fall he will drowned,lol.  Or one eye at the back of our head and one in front, or ear down to our belly and one on the side of our head.  Evolution cannot position the amount of order that is all over the world.  

So becareful my friend to call me sadducce.
 

Offline spud

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #180 on: 29/05/2006 08:12:21 »
[again edited for personal insults - Dave]
« Last Edit: 29/05/2006 10:19:01 by daveshorts »
 

Offline daveshorts

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #181 on: 29/05/2006 10:34:51 »
What evidence do you have that evolution can't explain the order in the world. If you ever studied biochemistry in depth, it is a strange mix of beautifully elegant design, and horrible hacks.

So either God is alternately inspired and lazy
or
he evolved everything anyway.

 You even get them on a large scale - why do we get so many back problems? It makes sense if we have only recently evolved, and there hasn't been time for subtle issues like back ache to evolve out, but does it if we are made in the image of God?

Why is childbirth so difficult and dangerous? Because a pelvis that was designed for giving birth to quatrapedal small headed apes has has evolved to bipedalism, and babies heads have got a lot bigger, and evolution hasn't had time to come up with a good answer - or god is still punishing women for Eve falling for a classic entrapment scheme 6000 years ago - nice example of a loving god that one.
 

Offline JimBob

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #182 on: 29/05/2006 19:10:23 »
WHY ARE YOU UNABLE TO ANSWER A QUESTION DIRECTLY?

In Genesis, a day is defined as 24 hours. How do you get 6000 years or more in a day???? If you can get more than 24 hours in a day what is the difference between 30 hours , 6000 years or 65 to 125 million years?

Secondly, you still have not shown me in the Bible where 1/3rd of the angels were thrown down, much less any angel.

Isaiah 14:12
"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning"
This passage in Isaiah is about Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon. Lucifer is the Morning Star, one of titles of Nebuchadnezzar. The passage is about Babylon, both before and after in Chapter 14 of Isaiah.  Isaiah 14:4 "That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!" Your reading is out of context. It is also a reading that is not consistent with the Hebrew original.

The word angel is never used.

It was not until Jerome (full name = Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus) translated - incorrectly - the Hebrew and Greek texts of the Bible into the Latin vulgate, or "common Latin", that the word "Lucifer" was even used. The Hebrew word used in Isaiah 14:12 is "heylel" and it has two meanings. 1.) the Morning Star or the planet Venus, 2.) of or pertaining to the King of Babylon. Lucifer is the Latin word for Venus.

It was only about 1310 when Dante wrote the Divine Comedy that there is any evidence in all of Christian writing that the angels and Satan were connected with this passage. This is over half of the history of Christianity. It was either Dante or John Milton who claimed that 1/3rd the angels fell with Satan; it is not in the Bible. In the Hebrew language "Satan" is a word for a completely different concept than the planet Venus; it is translated as "adversary."

As for Sadducee, the word refers to priests of the temple who interpreted the Old Testament literally. (look it up in a good  dictionary.) If the shoe fits, wear it.

My belief in God is only bolstered by the elegance of design I see explained in my science.

It has been my experience that scientist have given more thought to the question of the existence of God than any other group of people I have ever been acquainted with. The reason: the elegance and beauty and the PROVABLE REPETITIVE RESULTS found in an theory of mountain formation or a formula for particle physic or in evolution is awe inspiring. The beauty and majesty of this Universe makes a scientist ask questions or we would not be scientist. Some come to one conclusion, others come to another. The thought that goes into this decision is equal to the thought that is given to the existence of God among theologians.




The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein
 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #183 on: 30/05/2006 03:00:38 »
You do not understand what I meant by genesis 1 and 2. I never said 24 hours is not a day. You misunderstood me or I am not explaing myself very well.

To everyone else, everything I say, you tell me you need facts. I am going to say this that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. God gave His only son Jesus Christ to die for the sin of mankind.  Jesus Christ has died for the sins of all and has risen from the dead. Those who call upon His name and trust in Him shall be saved.  It is only through faith that man will receive salvation.  

It is only through faith that you will believe that miracles did take place in the bible and that evolution have never setup the order that is all around us.


I  wish you the guys the best in your qwest for God.  Remember you were told the truth and refuse it because of the theories you were taught by your teachers and professors.

Take care guys.

Dan
 

Offline ejirolove30

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #184 on: 30/05/2006 03:05:12 »
Luke 10:18-20, jim. There is a part in revelation that speaks about 1/3. I do not remember the exact verse.

Those are my last words, unfortunately this is a debate/conversation that I cannot win with words, it can only be by having faith without having all the proof. If that was the case, God will come down everyday on the earth and speak to man face to face.  It is by faith and only by faith in Jesus Christ shall all men be saved.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #185 on: 30/05/2006 03:31:54 »
You've certainly hit the nail on the head there.

Faith is eveything...and yours is most certainly true and forthright. I am happy at the obvious comfortability factor that you have in your faith.

With others, their faith is of a different kind, but of equal determination..........perhaps scientific more than religious.

And you know what ?...YOU may be right...we just do not know !..though I understand in your subjectivity....you do know.

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

Offline science_guy

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #186 on: 30/05/2006 19:33:21 »
quote:
If everything has to have a beginning who created god did he just pop up from nothing.

I dont believe anybody has answered this yet.

God transends dimensions, so therefore he has more than one dimension of time.  Assuming that he only has even 2 dimensions of time, that is still sufficient for this.  with one dimension of time, its a timeline.  With two, its a "timesquare" of sorts.  with the two directions, there are an infinite amount of directions of time to go, and therefore he has no creation event.

there are two different creationist theroys.

1) young earth creationist.  They say that earth was literally created in 6 days, along with the universe and all other things, including our galaxy.  That cannot be so, because our galaxy would have to be coming from a white hole, and that is obviously not true.

2) Old earth creationist.  This is my belief.  Earth is how old we believe it is, 4.6 billion years, and all scientific facts that we have found are true.  The Record of Nature and the Word of God are both true, since God created them both, and he cannot lie.  The only problem is human interpretation. Days, as we call them are 24 hours long, and the day metaphor is how long it seemed to God.  Since God can trancend dimensions, time is irrelevent to him.  

That is my argument, and I polightfully request that we have no heated debating, just conversation.

E=MC2... m=deg/360 X C... C= PiD

therefore E=deg/360 X 2(PiD)
 

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #187 on: 30/05/2006 20:20:01 »
quote:
Originally posted by science_guy
2) Old earth creationist.  This is my belief.  Earth is how old we believe it is, 4.6 billion years, and all scientific facts that we have found are true.  The Record of Nature and the Word of God are both true, since God created them both, and he cannot lie.  The only problem is human interpretation. Days, as we call them are 24 hours long, and the day metaphor is how long it seemed to God.  Since God can trancend dimensions, time is irrelevent to him.  



If God is capable of all things, then why is he not capable of lying, and lying so well that we could never catch Him out?

As for the word of God, all we have is the word of man that he purports to be the word of God.

Ofcourse, the word of Man that purport to be the word of God, may indeed be the word of God, and indeed, maybe God is not lying – but what evidence do we have that these possibilities are indeed the reality?

quote:

God transends dimensions, so therefore he has more than one dimension of time.  Assuming that he only has even 2 dimensions of time, that is still sufficient for this.  with one dimension of time, its a timeline.  With two, its a "timesquare" of sorts.  with the two directions, there are an infinite amount of directions of time to go, and therefore he has no creation event.



Makes God sound very like a tachyon, except that has 3 dimensions of time, and only one of space (although that might be argued to be consistent with God's omnipresence, since if all space is compressed into one dimension, then to be everywhere you only need to be everywhere in that one dimension.

Ofcourse, there is a contradiction between omnipresence and freedom of movement, since you can only move to somewhere you are not, so if you are everywhere, you cannot actually move anywhere.  If God only exists in 1 dimension of space, then he can fairly easily be everywhere in space (but can move nowhere in space), but if He exists in two or more dimensions of time, then he may have a great deal of freedom of movement in time, but he most be absent from most of time, otherwise he would have to constrain his freedom of movement.



George
 

Offline spud

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #188 on: 30/05/2006 20:21:41 »
you guys are pathetic. while your sitting here trying to figure out if there is a god or not, kevin krupp is out on the loose corupting the minds of the elderly...thats right kevin krupp,

edited due to foul language
« Last Edit: 30/05/2006 20:36:41 by neilep »
 

Offline rosy

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #189 on: 30/05/2006 21:42:39 »
Spud:
Urmm... do you know something about Kevin Krupp that we don't? All I can see by him is a rather poorly argued post in favour of the God hypothesis which whilst it isn't saying anything either new or interesting, and certainly doesn't convince, doesn't appear to me to be particularly objectionable (compared, say, to your own..) and I'm especially confused by your reference to corrupting the minds of the elderly... do you mean us? Would you like to explain yourself (preferably in moderate terms so the mods don't take it down before anyone can read it..).
 

Offline spud

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #190 on: 30/05/2006 22:25:43 »
DELETED TEXT DUE TO ETREME VILE PROVOCATIVE LANGUAGE TOWARDS ANOTHER MEMBER
« Last Edit: 30/05/2006 22:34:30 by neilep »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #191 on: 30/05/2006 22:38:03 »
for anyone who is interested this is SPUDS info:

After what I just deleted this waste of space is most certainly NOT WELCOME here




IP address:                     69.145.88.53
Reverse DNS:                    host-69-145-88-53.grf-mt.client.bresnan.net.
Reverse DNS authenticity:       [Verified]
ASN:                            33588
ASN Name:                       BRESNAN-AS
IP range connectivity:          2
Registrar (per ASN):            ARIN
Country (per IP registrar):     US [United States]
Country Currency:               USD [United States Dollars]
Country IP Range:               69.144.0.0 to 69.145.255.255
Country fraud profile:          Normal
City (per outside source):      Great Falls, Montana
Private (internal) IP?          No
IP address registrar:           whois.arin.net
Known Proxy?                    No

.............................................

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« Last Edit: 30/05/2006 22:39:56 by neilep »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #192 on: 30/05/2006 22:39:26 »
And some more:

OrgName:    Bresnan Communications, LLC.
OrgID:      BRESN
Address:    One Manhattanville Rd
City:       Purchase
StateProv:  NY
PostalCode: 10577
Country:    US

ReferralServer: rwhois://rwhois.bresnan.net:4321

NetRange:   69.144.0.0 - 69.146.255.255
CIDR:       69.144.0.0/15, 69.146.0.0/16
NetName:    NET-CORE-BB-1
NetHandle:  NET-69-144-0-0-1
Parent:     NET-69-0-0-0-0
NetType:    Direct Allocation
NameServer: DNS1.BRESNAN.NET
NameServer: DNS2.BRESNAN.NET
Comment:    
RegDate:    2003-05-13
Updated:    2005-04-15

RTechHandle: BRESN1-ARIN
RTechName:   BCC Manager
RTechPhone:  +1-406-294-6600
RTechEmail:  ********@bresnan.com

OrgAbuseHandle: BOA2-ARIN
OrgAbuseName:   Bresnan OnLine - Abuse
OrgAbusePhone:  +1-919-319-8112
OrgAbuseEmail:  *****@bresnan.net

OrgTechHandle: BRESN1-ARIN
OrgTechName:   BCC Manager
OrgTechPhone:  +1-406-294-6600
OrgTechEmail:  ********@bresnan.com

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2006-05-29 19:10
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

another_someone

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #193 on: 30/05/2006 23:18:41 »
quote:
Originally posted by ariel

let me just clear things up
there is a god
FSM
visit www.venganza.org if you wish to find out more and quite possibly become a pastafarian like myself

it's sacrilicious!




Continuing the lighter note on religious doctrine, here is another one favoured by some Mensans.

http://www.thebudgiecult.org/







George
 

Offline JimBob

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #194 on: 30/05/2006 23:59:23 »
I need to apologize to the group for getting hot under the collar about an extreme fundamentalist position their beliefs on this group, trying to change our minds from a family held position.

His belief is a meaningful to him as mine is to me. Having asked questions about my belief, and gone through much inquiry and self examination, the threat of someone who does not acknowledge the continually growing mythology of Christianity threatening my belief system (family do it too much) I became defensive an protective.

I was wrong to become defensive. It ceratainly does not reflect the values I say I hold.


The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein
 

Offline neilep

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #195 on: 31/05/2006 00:18:57 »
Well, as far as I can see there was no apology needed , required or expected...but seeing as you're apologizing anyway jimmy boy..then It's humbly accepted....truly though....no apology needed chum.

I would also like to apologise.......not for anything really...just to apologise...so.......sorry people !

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Offline ukmicky

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #196 on: 31/05/2006 02:41:58 »
Well seeing as we are all in the mood for apologises i will try to think of something i can apologise for.

PS Jim as neil said, you have done nothing to apologise for.

Michael
« Last Edit: 31/05/2006 02:46:38 by ukmicky »
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #197 on: 31/05/2006 02:44:10 »
I'm really really sorry, but i just can't think of anything. its not fair why am i so good :(:)

Michael
 

Offline JimBob

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #198 on: 31/05/2006 02:48:58 »
WE HAVE FOUND GOD

Praise Michael?

[?]

The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #199 on: 31/05/2006 02:49:47 »
LOL

Michael
 

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Re: God real or not
« Reply #199 on: 31/05/2006 02:49:47 »

 

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