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Offline underdog

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Questions about "love"
« on: 08/05/2006 21:44:31 »
Hi,
I've read the article by Dr. McLoughlin
and the 'chemistry' of love.

the first stage is not always lust
I mean, some people fall in love online Without even seeing each others
and they even experience the >whole< hormones effects, without any
arousal

SO, two persons can deeply fall in love just cuz they like each other's
personality etc.
to some people, love is much stronger than lust
actually lust comes in the last place
so love is not always sexual

homesick and lovesick are similar
we produce some hormones loving the country :S

and what about the so-called innocent love?
I mean, like loving family or friends
like I'd die to save my best-friend/mom
is it psychology? or still chemistry?
:S


 

another_someone

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #1 on: 08/05/2006 23:46:21 »
quote:
Originally posted by underdog
and what about the so-called innocent love?
I mean, like loving family or friends
like I'd die to save my best-friend/mom



I think it is a post Freudian phenomenon to regard everything in sexual terms.  We no longer say something is exiting, we say it is 'sexy'.  It is no longer possible for an adult to appreciate a child's body without being accused of paedophilia.  We imagine phallic symbolism in any upright structure.

I am not saying that our ancestors were always purer than pure (or even that sexuality is improper in any way), but it seems they could imagine human emotion and beauty that was not always reduced to a sexual interpretation.

quote:

is it psychology? or still chemistry?



Is there a difference?  Is not all brain function ultimately a matter of chemistry?



George
 

Offline underdog

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #2 on: 11/05/2006 00:00:05 »
yea exactly,
all our emotions are hormones+memory that's what I think

'Fear' for example, we say it's "instinct"
but think about it that way
a child who never knew that fire hurts would reach his hand to it
and then his hand start burning
now, his memory saved that fire hurts
and next time he'll be scared as hell when he see it

and thus, he'll be afraid of the "unknown"
that's why we call it instinct?

a person who never experinced love
will never know what it feels like and won't
care to find out.
and as it's not a "teachable" term, you can't tell him how it
feels like
~~~~~
I don't know why we don't fall in love with our sisters
It's sick i know, but in a scientific way
isn't it all about choosing "Genes"?

what's the basis of "Taboo"
how does our body refuse?

and I still don't get it
the pure love thing..
loving the country, loving the family even loving god

EVEN loving a game!
I used to play mmorpg called "Conquer"
and I used to pump up the same hormones of Love
like, I think about it all the time
can't sleep , can't concentrate
and when I double-click the game .exe
I feel pretty excited, and my heart start racing!
I asked my friends and they all feel the same way!
we can talk for hours and hours about that game
even for weeks and never get bored!
SO WE FALL IN LOVE WITH A GAME?!
« Last Edit: 12/05/2006 00:40:53 by underdog »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #3 on: 12/05/2006 01:26:19 »
Love and sex are so often combined together when they are clearly miles apart.
 I think this the term ‘ making love ‘ may have gone some way to
contribute to this misnomer of opinion..


I would be interested in knowing the history of the term ‘ making
love ‘…it is perhaps, I feel, out of fashion these days.


Love and sex and sex and love…it IS quite simply the most amazing
combination…..and both are just as good by themselves too.


In the good old days,…love was the expected 1st rung of the ladder,
 then this would lead to marriage etc etc, then sex (making love)



Falling in love online is so very easy to do.

The imagination is such a wonderful thing yet our control of it is
sometimes quite haphazard !!…and this is where the ease of net love
begins….

….It’s your imagination with all it’s wants and desires that are
transposes these feelings onto the person you’re interacting with.
You don’t have the benefit of a face, or a voice, or touch !..you
only have the interface, and the desire in your mind just loves to
fill in the gaps for you, and provides you with  the hormonal
response required.

…Same can be said for sex on line too, no emotion is necessary one
can play out one’s fantasy with complete and total selfishness and
anonymity …It’s just pleasure that is required.



I do believe in love at first sight though, but in a different
context. When I saw each one of my children being born, that was love
 at first sight !..for Adults ?...hmmm…well…I think it’s a rare
thing…..I believe in lust at first sight though..oh yes !!


Sex is such a primitive drive and it’s very very strong…
Sex ( the want to have sex) is necessary for procreation, it is a
basic instinct and well , it must be the most fundamental necessity
for a species survival…it is El Numero Uno !!…else we just wouldn’t be here…


Love, I would say is far more sophisticated in its emotional
integrity.
 In my opinion…If I had to choose…I would rather have a life ‘
in-love ‘ and no sex rather than the other way round….though for me,
 boy, would I be thankful for the internet !!




Men are the same as women, just inside out !
« Last Edit: 12/05/2006 01:29:42 by neilep »
 

another_someone

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #4 on: 12/05/2006 02:01:11 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep
I would be interested in knowing the history of the term ‘ making
love ‘…it is perhaps, I feel, out of fashion these days.



If you look at the 19th century use of the term, it referred to flirtation, or seduction (i.e. to seduce someone into falling in love with you, or to talk and act to keep them in love with you, and not the physical act of sex).  Clearly, the sexual act can be used to 'make love' (i.e. to make or keep someone in love with you), but it is only one part of the process of 'making love' in the broad literal sense.

When Lady Hamilton made love to Lord Nelson in public, it was scandalous, but nonetheless it was done with their clothes on.

quote:

In the good old days,…love was the expected 1st rung of the ladder,
 then this would lead to marriage etc etc, then sex (making love)



By no means always so – it was often that love was expected to grow out of an arranged marriage rather than precede it.  This might not always have worked, but the modern system fails just as often, as shown by the busy trade in the divorce courts.

quote:

Falling in love online is so very easy to do.

The imagination is such a wonderful thing yet our control of it is
sometimes quite haphazard !!…and this is where the ease of net love
begins….

….It’s your imagination with all it’s wants and desires that are
transposes these feelings onto the person you’re interacting with.
You don’t have the benefit of a face, or a voice, or touch !..you
only have the interface, and the desire in your mind just loves to
fill in the gaps for you, and provides you with  the hormonal
response required.



The internet has not created something totally new – it has only created a new form of what was before.

Falling in love with someone whom you only know through the written word is not new, it is merely the speed of the Internet that is new.

Nor is it always bad – although it does ofcourse have its risks.

One advantage with getting to know people through the written word is that you can know their thoughts without the physical appearance getting in the way.  Physical beauty will fade, but the person whose mind you have looked into through their writings will remain.  Ofcourse, this does depend upon honesty on both sides, and it is much easier to lie when the person cannot see your face.

What is the right medium depends a little on what you are looking for, and how much the surface beauty matters and how much that which is beneath the skin is what matters to you.




George
 

Offline underdog

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #5 on: 12/05/2006 13:27:49 »
ok, changing the subject a little

some people never felt romantic love
I've some friend who never did
he kept saying some theories about "love" being just a myth
I tried to tell him the the hormones effects on body y'know
racing heart and etc
but he said he never felt that!
and love songs etc. doesn't affect him, he think it's silly

while he actually "recieved" romantic love at childhood
is it some kinda syndrome? or illness?

he's pretty close friend, he is NOT lying
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #6 on: 12/05/2006 13:59:02 »
quote:
Originally posted by underdog

ok, changing the subject a little

some people never felt romantic love
I've some friend who never did
he kept saying some theories about "love" being just a myth
I tried to tell him the the hormones effects on body y'know
racing heart and etc
but he said he never felt that!
and love songs etc. doesn't affect him, he think it's silly

while he actually "recieved" romantic love at childhood
is it some kinda syndrome? or illness?

he's pretty close friend, he is NOT lying





Hmm..this is a good one.

Now then, you're friend could be one of a few things..

He might be filled with bravado and is trying to impress you with how
 tough he is.....

...or..he simply does not want to admit having felt romantic love


....or he is truly incapable of experiencing romantic love.....it
 happens y'know but it's very rare...

..I would like to think he just hasn't opened his heart to the
possibility yet or he just has not found someone or something (ie: a
song) that has pulled his heartstrings accordingly.

How old are you guys ?...you say that he received romantic love as a
 child !!!..what does that mean ?...as a young boy he had a
girlfriend who loved him but he didn't love her back ?

Hmmmmm....as I said there are some people who are so stoic that they
end up as lonely old souls...whether they recognize the lonliness or
not...but there are loners amongst us....

I don't know whether it could be deemed a syndrome...one could then
apply that term to every form of character trait, emotional state
etc....

...is he happy with his lack of romantic love ?...or should I say is
 he ' comfortable ' with it ?.......

...as he is your friend , have you enjoyed laughs and giggles with
him over the years or has he always been the serious type ?

One thing is for sure, in my opinion love is not a myth....does he
 not feel any kind of love at all ?...for his family ?..for you
?..ie: friendly brotherly love ?

How can he say love is a myth when he must recognize that love is all
 around him ?


To directly answer your question though..I do not believe it is an
 illness or syndrome unless one is affected by it so much as to be
detrimental to ones ability to lead a normal life....what ever that
is !

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

another_someone

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #7 on: 12/05/2006 15:06:11 »
quote:
Originally posted by underdog

ok, changing the subject a little

some people never felt romantic love
I've some friend who never did
he kept saying some theories about "love" being just a myth
I tried to tell him the the hormones effects on body y'know
racing heart and etc
but he said he never felt that!
and love songs etc. doesn't affect him, he think it's silly

while he actually "recieved" romantic love at childhood
is it some kinda syndrome? or illness?



The argument about whether love is a myth or a reality is a complicated one.

Yes, there are physiological changes associated with love, but then one can also demonstrate physiological changes in response to the placebo effect, so one can say love is as real as any placebo, but how real is a placebo?

Clearly, love is not an external physical entity (i.e. something you can physically touch or see, such as a table).  That it exists is true, but its existence is wholly within the mind, and thus can be said to be no more than an illusion, but an illusion that can create perceptible effects (just as the illusion of a sugar pill given as a placebo can have perceptible effects).  Thus, one might say it is the belief in love that is the more real than the love itself.

Can one say that the ability, or inability, to believe in a placebo is an illness?



George
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #8 on: 12/05/2006 15:55:43 »
Im not too sure that one can correlate love with a placebo.

A placebo is a real tangible thing and though love is not a physical thing,
 I would even go to say (as you also say) that the effect of love is real and tangible too..
....but love is not an object that you can touch and feel, it is an emotion that is a
 product of the brain manifesting such a thing as a consequence of variable data input
and the persons predispositions to react to such input.

It's existence is in the mind as you say, but that does not mean it is an illusion, else
we must determine our own existence before plying our cognitive wares on everything else.

Just because a thing can not be held or seen does not mean it does not exist.

As you say, this is a very complicated subject and who knows how many tomes and volumes
over the years have been dedicated to the pursuit of love, the definition of love.

I would defend that Love is not a myth...

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

another_someone

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #9 on: 12/05/2006 16:38:58 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep
Im not too sure that one can correlate love with a placebo.

A placebo is a real tangible thing and though love is not a physical thing,



A placebo may be a tangible thing.

Faith healing is through the placebo effect, and yet there is nothing physically tangible about faith.

quote:

Just because a thing can not be held or seen does not mean it does not exist.



I never said it did not exist, only that it existed in the same way as the placebo effect exists (and the placebo effect is indeed a real effect).

quote:

I would defend that Love is not a myth...



Again, I did not suggest it was – it is no more a myth than the placebo effect is a myth.

On the other hand, love, as much as the placebo effect, relies heavily upon myth and illusion to gain its effect.  We all know that love can distort ones perception, not least one's perception of the object that one loves.



George
 

Offline underdog

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #10 on: 12/05/2006 17:21:33 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep
He might be filled with bravado and is trying to impress you with how
 tough he is.....

...or..he simply does not want to admit having felt romantic love

....or he is truly incapable of experiencing romantic love.....it
 happens y'know but it's very rare...

The third one, he's really incapable, we talked for months
over this subject and I'm %100 sure that he never knew romantic love.

quote:
Originally posted by neilep
..I would like to think he just hasn't opened his heart to the
possibility yet or he just has not found someone or something (ie: a
song) that has pulled his heartstrings accordingly.

He's very fun, he likes many songs, and he likes the music
of those "love" songs, only that he thinks that lyrics are
ridicolous and he doesn't experience any bittersweet effect
if I may say.

quote:
Originally posted by neilep
How old are you guys ?...you say that he received romantic love as a
 child !!!..what does that mean ?...as a young boy he had a
girlfriend who loved him but he didn't love her back?

we're 17-18 years old, and yea, he had a girlfriend, he loved
her in a different way, not romantic I mean.

quote:
Originally posted by neilep
...is he happy with his lack of romantic love ?...or should I say is
 he ' comfortable ' with it ?.......

YES, he is happy with lack of romantic love!
he finds it so negative, like jealousy etc. etc.
stories and incidents from reality too
and because he, himself, thinks that it's just a "myth"
then even if it exists, he can't stand it.
and because love is mixed up with lust, in most relationship
he finds it "dirty" , I tried to convince him that romantic love
can be experienced without any arousal(..just me?) but sure I failed
love is dirty and degrading that's what he thinks.

(P.S. I experienced 'love+lust' and 'love alone without any arousal'
and love alone was much stronger, at least for me
which brings the main subject, my lustless romantic love was NOT like
my lustless love to my sister for example, I really wanna know
what's the difference between the two kinds of lustless-love
how both actually work in the brain, in particular to what degree neuron firings are involved, and how much of it is chemical processes)

quote:
Originally posted by neilep
...as he is your friend , have you enjoyed laughs and giggles with
him over the years or has he always been the serious type ?

he is SO funny and energetic, only serious when necessary.

quote:
Originally posted by neilep
One thing is for sure, in my opinion love is not a myth....does he
 not feel any kind of love at all ?...for his family ?..for you
?..ie: friendly brotherly love ?

he loves his brother ALOT, his friends, and of course me :)

quote:
Originally posted by neilep
How can he say love is a myth when he must recognize that love is all
 around him ?

love is only in our bodies, if his body doesn't "contain" love
then it's sure a myth to >him<

we will not argue about love being a myth
it's just like 'fear' it's emotion
it's VERY true to whom could 'experience' it
and it's VERY myth to the ones who "can't"

This subject confused/depressed me.
I read everything related to emotions and feelings
in wikipedia, around 6 hours of reading
just trying to figure it out
I really wanna help him, and I really wanna help myself too,

I guess I need to talk to someone on msn, as I'm not totally out
like, not telling everything
« Last Edit: 12/05/2006 17:35:13 by underdog »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #11 on: 12/05/2006 17:44:21 »
quote:
Originally posted by another_someone

quote:
Originally posted by neilep
Im not too sure that one can correlate love with a placebo.

A placebo is a real tangible thing and though love is not a physical thing,



A placebo may be a tangible thing.

Faith healing is through the placebo effect, and yet there is nothing physically tangible about faith.




Faith Healing ?...Yep !.....but the people who believe in such a thing would probably argue that they are not the subjects of a placebo effect..however,..as I am not one of them, I agree....but I do say that a placebo is a real tangible thing AND not also.....!!

....Hmmm..y'know....I am not too sure now if the 'pill' itself is the placebo, or it's the effect it has on the mind  that is!...if it just the effect, then the placebo  pill is akin to faith healing..........it's a mental conduit.....could  'placebo ' be equated to 'belief ' I wonder...I think it must..


quote:

Just because a thing can not be held or seen does not mean it does not exist.


quote:
I never said it did not exist, only that it existed in the same way as the placebo effect exists (and the placebo effect is indeed a real effect).


And I did not mean to imply that you said it did.:)

quote:

I would defend that Love is not a myth...



Again, I did not suggest it was – it is no more a myth than the placebo effect is a myth.



On the other hand, love, as much as the placebo effect, relies heavily upon myth and illusion to gain its effect.  We all know that love can distort ones perception, not least one's perception of the object that one loves.



George



And I again did not mean to imply that you did suggest love was a myth. I  was just merely stating my point of view, which may have inadvertently been interpreted as a debatable point, but was not intended as such. :)

I agree, Love can blind your senses and one can also be blind to love....but you know what ? *le sigh*...all this talk of love and stuff and...well.......I love you George [:X] (cheeky giggle)


Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

another_someone

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #12 on: 12/05/2006 18:13:18 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep
....Hmmm..y'know....I am not too sure now if the 'pill' itself is the placebo, or it's the effect it has on the mind  that is!...if it just the effect, then the placebo  pill is akin to faith healing..........it's a mental conduit.....could  'placebo ' be equated to 'belief ' I wonder...I think it must..



There are historic distinctions between a placebo and a placebo effect.

Historically, a placebo was any treatment (pill, etc.) that a doctor prescribed where he did not believe the pill itself would have any physiological effect, but where he believed it might either just stop the patient nagging for some treatment, or may even help put the patient in a better frame of mind to heal themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_effect
quote:

studies showing that placebo treatments result in changes in brain function similar to the real drug are probably examples of conditioning resulting in objectively measurable results. (Sauro 2005, Wager 2004, Leuchter 2002)


"The placebo effect, thought of as the result of the inert pill, can be better understood as an effect of the relationship between doctor and patient. Adding the doctor's caring to medical care affects the patient's experience of treatment, reduces pain, and may affect outcome. This survey makes it clear that doctors continue to use placebos, and most think they help."



I would also suggest that love has been shown to be beneficial for health in, I suspect, exactly the same way that the placebo effect can be beneficial for health.



George
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #13 on: 12/05/2006 18:35:28 »

Love is a one those words that is misused all too often. Being in love has many different meanings to many different people.

When you are talking about an intimate relationship between two people love is often used. But you need to view the relationship closely to see if in fact that is the case. In the beginning the relationship it often in a state of bliss. This is mostly based on an egoic need in each person being fulfilled by the other. But just as fulfilment based on need of things fades, so dose this bliss state. This is because the ego can never be fulfilled by anything forever. Even in this early stage the smallest hint of withdrawal can cause extreme pain. This is a certain indication that the relationship is based on the needs of the ego. Feelings of anger and jealousy are all part of such relationships. You here people say they have a love hate relationship. They swing from pleasure to pain, is this love? How can love relationship give you pain?

To me love is acceptance of being in the presence of someone without the need to be in control of them. It where two people can be themselves totally, say or hear what ever comes in to their minds with out judgment or resistance. It is total acceptance of each other. This is what I call a love relationship.    





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Offline neilep

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #14 on: 12/05/2006 19:42:44 »
quote:
Originally posted by Hadrian


Love is a one those words that is misused all too often. Being in love has many different meanings to many different people.

When you are talking about an intimate relationship between two people love is often used. But you need to view the relationship closely to see if in fact that is the case. In the beginning the relationship it often in a state of bliss. This is mostly based on an egoic need in each person being fulfilled by the other. But just as fulfilment based on need of things fades, so dose this bliss state. This is because the ego can never be fulfilled by anything forever. Even in this early stage the smallest hint of withdrawal can cause extreme pain. This is a certain indication that the relationship is based on the needs of the ego. Feelings of anger and jealousy are all part of such relationships. You here people say they have a love hate relationship. They swing from pleasure to pain, is this love? How can love relationship give you pain?

To me love is acceptance of being in the presence of someone without the need to be in control of them. It where two people can be themselves totally, say or hear what ever comes in to their minds with out judgment or resistance. It is total acceptance of each other. This is what I call a love relationship.    





What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.






I would say intimacy is not necessary for love itself...and I'm not implying that this is what you meant.

 There are many moments of intimacy where love is the farthest removed emotion.

Love can most certainly give you pain, it can give you pain in the extreme...and so pain in a loving relationship is often very common. I might even go to say that it's a necessity.

I would certainly agree that in a loving relationship, that one feels that one can demonstrate openness that is privy only to the person you share that love with, but I would also say that despite the love, one is never completely revealing of oneself....there is the case of individual pride and self esteem...all so very intricate and deeply personal. The ego still lives inside a loving relationship, and I would say the initial arousal's of bliss do diminish but can be easily rejuvenated and are not lost forever.

I would also consider resistance, objection and judgement to also be a part of true love...as the feeling of openness lends itself to the ease in which one may object also.

Incidentally, I'm not disputing what you said Hadrian..no no no no...I'm just adding my two pennies worth !:)

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
« Last Edit: 12/05/2006 20:12:27 by neilep »
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #15 on: 12/05/2006 20:20:36 »

I can not accept that true love can give you pain and certainly not as a necessary part of love.  I should declare that I believe that love in my understanding is part of a higher state of being. To me it is state free of attachment to suffering.

People enter in to relationships for many different reasons including to suffer. If to suffer is fulfilling a need, then in extreme cases these relationship takes on damaging and even violent qualities. But underling this is the need. When we deep down identify with our pain from the past our ego can assume this identity and we seek out pain by inflicting it or inducing it.

Whatever is the deep need the ego will craves it and will seek it out in your relationships too. If you need to feel wanted then will look for this by demanding in every aspect of the relationship and will interrupted and small lack of fulfilment as a threat.

Many relationships are used sexual pleasure as masks for suffering. But this too only leads to more pain. The only true intimacy that can last is one built on being present in the moment with an other without need for an outcome.  It is sad the so many people look for fulfilment by looking the perfect partner when they have it inside them already.  When two people who have found fulfilment for themselves form a relationship this without doubt is path to supreme love.

If you relationships are free of all ego driven needs then you can say they are true love relationships.  







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Offline neilep

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #16 on: 12/05/2006 21:46:55 »
quote:
HADRIAN
I can not accept that true love can give you pain and certainly not as a necessary part of love.  I should declare that I believe that love in my understanding is part of a higher state of being. To me it is state free of attachment to suffering.


Well there is the key phrase, in your understanding ,like you , I can only give you my point of view. Such is the nature of love that we could discuss it till the end of time and probably still only scratch the surface. Anything that involves Humans is virtually impossible to ratify as absolute truth….I said virtually…not fully.



quote:
HADRIAN
People enter in to relationships for many different reasons including to suffer. If to suffer is fulfilling a need, then in extreme cases these relationship takes on damaging and even violent qualities. But underling this is the need. When we deep down identify with our pain from the past our ego can assume this identity and we seek out pain by inflicting it or inducing it.


There are many types of suffering but they can be split into two basic groups. Physical and non physical.
And within these basic groups lies a vast chasm of variety and degree…and they are not secular either. Physical and  non physical pain can be separate but also intricately interwoven.  I would think it rare that people would enter into a relationship for the sake of suffering…I can only imagine either a masochistic relationship or one where both parties are manic depressed…and varieties thereof.


quote:
HADRIAN
Whatever is the deep need the ego will craves it and will seek it out in your relationships too. If you need to feel wanted then will look for this by demanding in every aspect of the relationship and will interrupted and small lack of fulfilment as a threat.

quote:

Many relationships are used sexual pleasure as masks for suffering. But this too only leads to more pain.


Really ?...many  ?..are you sure ? again, I'm not disputing it..

...It is true that many relationships are not based on a solid foundation but in relation to happy relationships I would like to think it's a minority.

 
quote:
HADRIAN
The only true intimacy that can last is one built on being present in the moment with an other without need for an outcome


No argument there. , I can see what you mean and yes, this would define an extremely comfortable loving relationship…be it between two lovers or two friends.. …or just a relationship based on ultimate trust !
quote:
HADRIAN It is sad the so many people look for fulfilment by looking the perfect partner when they have it inside them already.  When two people who have found fulfilment for themselves form a relationship this without doubt is path to supreme love

If you relationships are free of all ego driven needs then you can say they are true love relationships.  
.


In MY opinion, for me…I can’t see how ego can be superfluous so that the exclusion of it makes for true supreme love.

Now that does not mean that in my world I am incapable of true love…I see myself as a deeply passionate person (IMO)….I can be so very much in love  but my ego is still there…I think I need it.

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
« Last Edit: 12/05/2006 21:56:37 by neilep »
 

Offline Hadrian

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #17 on: 12/05/2006 22:18:02 »


Suffering is need in many people’s lives. It comes in many forms. From self hate and loathing to vague sense of unworthiness. We look for it in our world around us ad drawn to it if it is a need in us. I sense you are asking how do we get this need and I am not trying to avoid answering it when is say there are so many way it can happen.

This is just on way. As a child if you have a parent who is driven by their pain then it is very likely you will suffer at their hands. Their self dislike may well act out on you as criticism and derision. It won't be long till you assume a role of the victim or you may rebel and become an aggressor yourself.  

Don’t fall in to the trap of thinking that this has to be extreme. It can be as small as believing you are a failure. When this becomes you identity you will see only the things that support it. I am being very simplistic in this example. But in the end we get a certain pleasure from protecting our identity even if it is bad for us even if it is also a source of pain. This is because the ego likes to be right about everything even if it hurts you in the long run. The ego feels no pain you do!

I am getting tired as I have being up since 5:30 this morning so I not going to go on much more with this. I am glad to continue it on next week as I am graduating this weekend so in going to be on line.

 



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Offline Hadrian

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #18 on: 12/05/2006 22:23:19 »
neil you might like to read some of this
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4244


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Offline neilep

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #19 on: 12/05/2006 22:37:40 »
Hadrian my chum,

Get some sleep.....I'm not arguing with you ...we can leave this be...it's just a discussion that's all .

Hey !!..did I miss something...what are you graduating from/in ?

good luck.....and I'll check the memory post before I forget to check the mem.......ooooohh   Poooo !!

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

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Re: Questions about "love"
« Reply #19 on: 12/05/2006 22:37:40 »

 

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