The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Motzart and Mental Agility !  (Read 11485 times)

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Motzart and Mental Agility !
« on: 22/06/2006 20:11:30 »
Dearest Luvvies,

I've often heard that listening to Mozart can make you smarter !!..Is there any truth to this do you think ?...what is it about this prodigy's music that stimulates the brain ?...is the structure and complexity of his concertos....?

...are there other examples of ' brain music '  ?

I do like Mozart....so...I must be the exception to the rule :)...but I also like Falcos ' Rock Me Amadeus '...anyone remember that ?

Men are the same as women, just inside out !


 

Offline JimBob

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6564
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #1 on: 23/06/2006 17:14:18 »
Smarter ????? But perhaps the benefit is real.

As I inscribe these letters on the keyboard, I am listening to Handel's SAUL. The music seems to me to do two things. I am calmer. I am also more focused. There two qualities may lead to more productivity and to a happier person.

But G. F. cannot hold a candle to Mozart (Or Bach) in the sheer beauty of the music. IT IS THE BEAUTY that in my humble opinion, brigs out the best within us.





The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein
 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #2 on: 23/06/2006 17:52:40 »
Ofcourse, it may be not that listening to Mozart makes you smarter, but that it is smarter people who listen to Mozart.  Personally, I used to like Mozart, but now find him a bit boring, and prefer Beethoven, Wagner, and in the other direction, the Baroque composers.



George
 

Offline moonfire

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4597
  • Can't stand the heat, step away from the fire!
    • View Profile
    • http://www.m2global.com/stormdiamonds
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #3 on: 24/06/2006 04:53:02 »
I have to agree with you here...beethoven, mozart,bach, handel,chopin, and etc...just love and smart people do listen to good music....but i like everything but rap and country...sorry to all of you who do...just can't take either of these styles of music...

"Lo" Loretta
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #4 on: 24/06/2006 17:10:35 »
JUST WANT to thank you all for your responses.

My question was based on an article I read somewhere and it's interesting to get your individual perspectives.

I do like classical amongst my eclectic tastes....like Loretta though, I just can't handle country music...makes me wanna heave !!!...but..I do believe that music that YOU like, what ever style it is, can be uplifting, calming and inspiring and other words that end in 'ing '....but then I am biased being passionate about music imagery and detail.

The article I read was specific to Mozart...perhaps there is something mathematical/systematic in the laying down of his script that is in concert with certain elements of human perception......he was a genius.

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
« Last Edit: 24/06/2006 17:11:18 by neilep »
 

Offline kittykat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #5 on: 26/06/2006 10:10:36 »
Yes he was a genius!  His Te Deum, written at the ripe young age of 13 is one of the most challenging pieces I have ever attempted to sing!  and so beautiful as well.

But to get back on thread - I am like Neil; very passionate about music - and  continually have music playing when I work.  I do find I work more efficiently with classical/instrumental music than other genres - but I suspect that is mostly due to the fact that I am inclined to sing along to jazz, blues, rock, pop and yes for all you anti-country music people out there - COUNTRY music - I'm a country music fan and disgustingly proud of it!  :D But I don't like rap either - and can't really get into hip hop.  basically any musical stimulation that makes me feel good is bound to make me more productive - so I tend to steer clear of artists like Sarah McLachlan and Joni Mitchell at work so that I don't get in a less than peppy mood.

~ Flow Girl ~
 

Offline gecko

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #6 on: 27/06/2006 20:04:37 »
that study involved adults and it only prooved a short-term difference in mathematical ability for some participants.

what im saying most of all is that its a short-term effect. so it doesnt make you "smarter" except maybe for a brief time.

id also like to add that i think everyone is passionate about music, theres no reason to say so. if you said "i hate music, i have never appreciated one thing about music. i wish it didnt exist" now that would be interesting.
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #7 on: 27/06/2006 22:55:40 »
Hi Gecko, :)

I would have to disagree with the statement 'everyone is passionate about music'...in my experience it simply isn't so.....though I think I understand what you mean by your statement......it's akin to saying that everyone is passionate about art...literature..etc

When I say I'm passionate...I mean that I am happy to sit in front of my Hi fi for hours !...each and every day if I could.

I like to hear and listen to the subtle nuances, I listen for the soundstage and the imagery...I like to be able to detect where the vocals are coming from..where the instruments are....the timbre..the hues and the tones...the control of the lower frequencies and the detail and clarity of the mid and higher frequencies....especially more noticeable in female vocals...this may sound all very analytical but my passion for music leads me to tears as I get lost within it...it also affords me an extreme purview in the field and scope of variety of the music that I love.....from grunge to rock...pop to trance...garage to classical...folk to prog rock...soul to hip hop...drum 'n ' bass to choral and eveything inbetween from all continents....(except Country & Western...yeuchh !!!..someone get me a bucket.....:D)

Having sold High End audio products for seven years I dealt with people who's passion ranged from the occasional listener who just wanted a small system for background music and the odd party to the complete opposite of the spectrum for whom listening to music was their hobby...for me..I am nearer the extreme side...it's the only way I can relax i love it so much..

..so I would say there are varying degrees of passion about music. :)

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
« Last Edit: 27/06/2006 22:58:15 by neilep »
 

Offline kittykat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #8 on: 29/06/2006 08:21:41 »
I'm with Neil on this one gecko - I agree that everyone at some point in their lives listens to and probably enjoys music, but not everyone is passionate about it.  I don't know if you guys use the same term as we do in Oz, but down here I am what is referred to as an Audiophile - my sound system is worth a LOT more than my car, and I would much rather spend several hours with my Hi Fi unit with it's sexy little SACD/DVD-a player than I would with my TV for example.

But as well as listening to music, I like to sing in my choir and occasionally play my flute and guitar (though there wouldn't be much for listeners to appreciate in the last two indedences cos I'm a bit rough around the edges in those areas!).  I am permanently attached at the hip to my Creative Zen portable music device (don't even get me started on the deficiences of iPods!), and I indulge in new CDs as often as the paycheck allows - but my sister on the other hand, doesn't even care if the car she buys has a good CD player in it or not, as music is only background to her.  Me on the other hand - my car purchases are heavily swayed by the sound system and the way that it sounds in the car... hmmm, all sounds a bit nerdy now that I actually admit it out loud! [:I]

~ Flow Girl ~
« Last Edit: 29/06/2006 08:22:23 by kittykat »
 

Offline Karen W.

  • Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *****
  • Posts: 31653
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • "come fly with me"
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #9 on: 29/06/2006 08:33:11 »
I like lots of different music, But I must say There have been lots of studies done with younger children that prove  a propensity towards mathmatical and scientific knowledge being improved by exposing your children to those types of music. There have been a number of studies and alot of advancement given this knowledge about this subject and small children. Children with this kind of exposure excell in science and mathmatics, Whoops I am repeating myself!..sorry guys...Karen
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #10 on: 29/06/2006 14:09:14 »
KATHERINE (Kittycat)...

I'm the pea in the pod next to you...I'm a hi fi nerd too !...it's good ain't it ?

KAREN

You're right...some women even tape headphones or little speakers to their belly's when they are preggy because it helps to stimulate baby.

I tried it with wifey but I wanted to give our baby the real thing ...trouble is...you don't realise how much sticky tape you need to keep an orchestra attached to mummys tummy !!..and it really makes ' having fun ' a bit of a nuisance as those cymbals are cold !!..and things get caught in them...OUCH !! :D

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
« Last Edit: 29/06/2006 14:35:52 by neilep »
 

Offline gecko

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #11 on: 29/06/2006 17:36:54 »
can in utero babies actually hear? if they can i seriously doubt they can tell mozart from a cats meow

and up at my last post, i mean that the study DIDNT involve adults, not did. how i said the exact opposite, is beyond me.
 

Offline Karen W.

  • Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *****
  • Posts: 31653
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • "come fly with me"
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #12 on: 02/07/2006 09:14:27 »
Yes Babies can hear in Utero, and immediately recognize and know not only their mothers voice, but others immediately around them like Daddy and siblings!  Its not that they can distinguish between the music, Its all in the processing of said music. All the different tones pitches and notes are stored to memory and placed in catogories by the brain expanding the childs ability to form more catogories and I am sure rhythum and patterns heard in notes as you know help build mathematical skills as does building with blocks for a toddler. Organizing things in the brain is very complicated, because everything is stored differently and eventually organized by bits of information that is added to that information. Every time a piece of information changes the original another sub catagory is formed so to speak to distinguish the new addition from the old. Its like a set of building blocks.
  I am no expert but have done alot of studing regaurding Brain developement in Utero  to about 5 years old. It is quite interesting really!

  Neil you are remarkable friend, seems wifey must be a sweetheart! I hope you didn't damage anything Vital Friend as that might upset wifey as well! I have read many of those studies and they are quite interesting. There is alot to say for exposing your child to brain music so to speak!

   I played all the classics from Beethoven to Bach. Everything I could listen too and  I read to my children from the start of each pregnancy. My children are all avid readers and Complete music buffs as well as talented with the voice and have all expressed interests in playing different instuments.   My daughter and myself like to dabble on the Piano, and she has a beautiful Voice and loves to sing.  My youngest son has played the Guitar, and the Violin, and the drums! My youngest has played the Violin, but prefers the listening the best. My husband dabbles with a Harmonica and a Mandolin. He has had a Accordian for about a year now and is learning to play that, as he loves accordian music.  All three of my children love science and have done well there throughout school, and they did not get that from me, I am here to learn as well as everyone else. This forum is great for that!

Hey Neil, Do you own an old fashion record player? As I ask this I highly doubt it as you just said you have a pretty nice stereo system or hifi! Wouldn't happen to have a record player would it. I have a whole collection of old records,classical, mozart, Beethoven, Bach, and many more. from old 78's to 33's There may be some 45's also!

 Anyway, I got off subject and apologize. I do think it stimulates their science and mathematical  abilities.....karen
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #13 on: 02/07/2006 15:37:13 »
quote:
Originally posted by Karen W.



  Neil you are remarkable friend,


Hey Neil, Do you own an old fashion record player?



Yes Mam (notice how I also kept the bit where you say I'm remarkable ?):D

Actually, YES...I also have a good old fashioned record player...though I did not pay a good old fashioned price for it !!

There's a whole bunch of people out there who think vinyl, (which is an analogue technology...you have a physical needle in a physical groove)...portrays a far more natural smooth and warm sound....it's true, it does...but I mostly am a CD fan...but with a huge number of records too I could not bear to be without a way to play them !!

Fortunately my cd and amplifier have valves in them and this helps to give an analogue feel to the music....

Karen...come on over and I'll play you some music ok ?..

good...I'll put the kettle on

:D

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

Offline Karen W.

  • Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *****
  • Posts: 31653
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • "come fly with me"
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #14 on: 02/07/2006 17:16:11 »
Hey Neil, I will be there soon. You know how dreams are! So I will close my eyes and you pick the album. I,ll try to hear it friend! Kettle of nice hot tea sounds lovely! hmmmm! Relaxing!  I wish I could friend! I do have some old vinyles you might like. I have tons of old records of which I love! I will gather  a bunch and see what would be involved in packaging a few at a time to mail you! They are pretty heavy, especially the 78's.

    Some day friend you and I are going to meet. I feel like I have known you since I was a kid! You are so much like me it's scary! We would be best buds!
   Say hi to family .....Karen
 

Offline kittykat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #15 on: 03/07/2006 04:01:26 »
Just to add my two cents worth... not that you asked for it, but I'm giving it to you anyway :D  I too have an old record palyer - two in fact - one that connects to my hifi, and a classic old Pye, original condition, it gets a bit stuck every now and then, and I sometimes have to lube it up before the turn table will actually spin, but when it goes, it GOES!!! AS well as having a decent collection of vinyls I also have a few slates... weigh a lot, but they feel, look and sound really special.

And yes Neil - I love being a Audiophile, but most of my friends think I'm weird - all the girls I know look at me like I've been hit on the head, and all the guys wonder if I'm actually a boy hiding in a girls body :(

~ Flow Girl ~
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #16 on: 03/07/2006 04:19:27 »
Wow katherine ...slates too !!...good on ya !:)

When I owned my stores it was always refreshing to have female audiophiles in the store....it was a rare pleasure !

I am not surprised at all that your friends think you are weird....you are most certainly a rare breed ...amongst  a breed that is already rare.:)

Keep on enjoying your music......well...I know you will....:)

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

Offline kittykat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #17 on: 03/07/2006 06:56:21 »
Ooooo... you used to own stores?  Wish I had have known you then! :D  I'd have flown over to pop into your shop... I am assuming you owned an independent?  I prefer independent stores to big chains (having said that, big chains can be good for a special every now and then).  My biggest grumble is how few SACDs and DVD-a are kept in stock.  I am very disappointed at the luke warm response to these in the general market.  Without the demand, there is little need to cater for the few that do want it.  here in Oz, I buy almost all of my SACDs from amazon.co.uk, (or browse for them on international sites, then get my favourite local guy to order them in for me), there just isn't enough interest in the general public for the average store to bother getting them in, cos when they do they just can't shift 'em! :(

And yes, I know about the rare breed thing - I learnt my habit from my dad, and have since met a couple of other audiophiles, but they are all males, and all my dad's age, being a female, mid 20's audiophile is like being a female firefighter... not common!

~ Flow Girl ~
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #18 on: 03/07/2006 13:28:25 »
Yep, I owned a couple of independent stores, one in North London, the other in central London we had demonstration rooms for Hi Fi & Home cinema. I did it for seven years but it was getting too much for me...despite the love of music and the equipment , I was bringing too much work home with me. (admin)..and doing an installation up until midnight was not conducive to a happy household !!...so..ten months ago , I sold up !

Unfortunately, SACD and DVDA I think will always remain an elite format....who on Earth would want to replace their already substantial cd collection for yet another format ?..I know I wouldn't...yet..SACD does sound absolutely amazing....but....with up sampling technologies they can almost make an original CD sound as good...though...........well...it's not really...but close ! The difference is quite clear...yet subtle when you change from one layer to another in a machine where the capability exists to choose the CD or SACD layer...it is most definitely an ear opener !!!

It's a shame...I really never had any doubt that those formats were going to remain elite.....even more so with people now investing in MP3 only based systems...it seems the humble CD may even eventually become an elitist format.


You most certainly are rarer than a female firefighter....you're a godammn oddity !! :D ....but a breath of fresh air....we always used to fight to serve the girly customers !!:D....well...part from one of my staff cos he was gay !! :D

There are plenty of Audio forums out there !..I don't frequent them anymore but I wonder if there are any Oz ones...have you looked ?...but if you find one....don't leave this place eh ? ;)

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #19 on: 03/07/2006 18:30:11 »
Only on one occasion did I have cause to hear SACD, and yes, it was amazing, but alas we have a marketplace that is happy to downgrade from CD to MP3, so clearly have too little concern for the likes of SACD.

The only other question is whether the move towards downloadable music and broadband connections capable of video download, it may create the possibility of addressing narrow markets such as super audio quality.  At present, the downloadable market is being driven by the latest teenage fashion, with little regard for quality; but given the low overheads and low distribution costs, it should be possible to address niche markets as easily.

I do not class myself as an audiophile, despite the fact that I can hear the quality.  Apart from the fact that I no longer have the budget to spend on ever better equipment (most of my stuff is circa 1975-1985), but I don't really listen to music that much it is usually just background.  I suppose I am just not capable of sitting still that long to listen through a piece of music, and not do anything else at the same time.



George
 

Offline kittykat

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #20 on: 29/06/2006 08:21:41 »
I'm with Neil on this one gecko - I agree that everyone at some point in their lives listens to and probably enjoys music, but not everyone is passionate about it.  I don't know if you guys use the same term as we do in Oz, but down here I am what is referred to as an Audiophile - my sound system is worth a LOT more than my car, and I would much rather spend several hours with my Hi Fi unit with it's sexy little SACD/DVD-a player than I would with my TV for example.

But as well as listening to music, I like to sing in my choir and occasionally play my flute and guitar (though there wouldn't be much for listeners to appreciate in the last two indedences cos I'm a bit rough around the edges in those areas!).  I am permanently attached at the hip to my Creative Zen portable music device (don't even get me started on the deficiences of iPods!), and I indulge in new CDs as often as the paycheck allows - but my sister on the other hand, doesn't even care if the car she buys has a good CD player in it or not, as music is only background to her.  Me on the other hand - my car purchases are heavily swayed by the sound system and the way that it sounds in the car... hmmm, all sounds a bit nerdy now that I actually admit it out loud! [:I]

~ Flow Girl ~
« Last Edit: 29/06/2006 08:22:23 by kittykat »
 

Offline Karen W.

  • Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *****
  • Posts: 31653
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • "come fly with me"
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #21 on: 29/06/2006 08:33:11 »
I like lots of different music, But I must say There have been lots of studies done with younger children that prove  a propensity towards mathmatical and scientific knowledge being improved by exposing your children to those types of music. There have been a number of studies and alot of advancement given this knowledge about this subject and small children. Children with this kind of exposure excell in science and mathmatics, Whoops I am repeating myself!..sorry guys...Karen
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #22 on: 29/06/2006 14:09:14 »
KATHERINE (Kittycat)...

I'm the pea in the pod next to you...I'm a hi fi nerd too !...it's good ain't it ?

KAREN

You're right...some women even tape headphones or little speakers to their belly's when they are preggy because it helps to stimulate baby.

I tried it with wifey but I wanted to give our baby the real thing ...trouble is...you don't realise how much sticky tape you need to keep an orchestra attached to mummys tummy !!..and it really makes ' having fun ' a bit of a nuisance as those cymbals are cold !!..and things get caught in them...OUCH !! :D

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
« Last Edit: 29/06/2006 14:35:52 by neilep »
 

Offline gecko

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #23 on: 29/06/2006 17:36:54 »
can in utero babies actually hear? if they can i seriously doubt they can tell mozart from a cats meow

and up at my last post, i mean that the study DIDNT involve adults, not did. how i said the exact opposite, is beyond me.
 

Offline Karen W.

  • Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *****
  • Posts: 31653
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • "come fly with me"
    • View Profile
Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #24 on: 02/07/2006 09:14:27 »
Yes Babies can hear in Utero, and immediately recognize and know not only their mothers voice, but others immediately around them like Daddy and siblings!  Its not that they can distinguish between the music, Its all in the processing of said music. All the different tones pitches and notes are stored to memory and placed in catogories by the brain expanding the childs ability to form more catogories and I am sure rhythum and patterns heard in notes as you know help build mathematical skills as does building with blocks for a toddler. Organizing things in the brain is very complicated, because everything is stored differently and eventually organized by bits of information that is added to that information. Every time a piece of information changes the original another sub catagory is formed so to speak to distinguish the new addition from the old. Its like a set of building blocks.
  I am no expert but have done alot of studing regaurding Brain developement in Utero  to about 5 years old. It is quite interesting really!

  Neil you are remarkable friend, seems wifey must be a sweetheart! I hope you didn't damage anything Vital Friend as that might upset wifey as well! I have read many of those studies and they are quite interesting. There is alot to say for exposing your child to brain music so to speak!

   I played all the classics from Beethoven to Bach. Everything I could listen too and  I read to my children from the start of each pregnancy. My children are all avid readers and Complete music buffs as well as talented with the voice and have all expressed interests in playing different instuments.   My daughter and myself like to dabble on the Piano, and she has a beautiful Voice and loves to sing.  My youngest son has played the Guitar, and the Violin, and the drums! My youngest has played the Violin, but prefers the listening the best. My husband dabbles with a Harmonica and a Mandolin. He has had a Accordian for about a year now and is learning to play that, as he loves accordian music.  All three of my children love science and have done well there throughout school, and they did not get that from me, I am here to learn as well as everyone else. This forum is great for that!

Hey Neil, Do you own an old fashion record player? As I ask this I highly doubt it as you just said you have a pretty nice stereo system or hifi! Wouldn't happen to have a record player would it. I have a whole collection of old records,classical, mozart, Beethoven, Bach, and many more. from old 78's to 33's There may be some 45's also!

 Anyway, I got off subject and apologize. I do think it stimulates their science and mathematical  abilities.....karen
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Motzart and Mental Agility !
« Reply #24 on: 02/07/2006 09:14:27 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
 
Login
Login with username, password and session length