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Offline Nux

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a question for all you smart types
« on: 11/07/2006 21:50:34 »
I am not a scientific type, im quite the opposite. However I need to have your views on a topic that has come to light through my writing. I write contemporary fantasy and dabble in sci-fi. In the latter genre I have used a concept. It is as follows.

I have used a material which is formed of a gas that with the correct electrical current solidifies.....so far so good you might say.

However, the properties of the solidified material is to return any pressure applied to it, in equal amounts.  Example being A sheet of Anti Kenetic Polymer (as I have called it) is hit with a bullet. The force of the bullets impact is repelled with exactly the same amount of force applied to the material, creating a null effect, leaving the material uneffected by the impact.  In physics i think this is called equilibrium, though it might fall into the dynamic equilibrium catagory.
The questions is this....

Is such a material and its reactive properties theoretically possible?

Also

If such a material was created would it conflict with Newtons laws?


On a fantastical note, if such a material was created it would I my belief change human progress entirely. Bullet proof really becomes bullet proof.....the pressure of deep beneath the ocean or the vacuum of space would be meaningless...

ahh, I know Im a dreamer but Im not the only one!

please, on a serious note, your views please.


 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: a question for all you smart types
« Reply #1 on: 11/07/2006 23:03:11 »

quote:
Originally posted by Nuxi]

I am not a scientific type, im quite the opposite. However I need to have your views on a topic that has come to light through my writing. I write contemporary fantasy and dabble in sci-fi. In the latter genre I have used a concept. It is as follows.

I have used a material which is formed of a gas that with the correct electrical current solidifies.....so far so good you might say.

However, the properties of the solidified material is to return any pressure applied to it, in equal amounts.  Example being A sheet of AntiKinetic Polymer (as I have called it) is hit with a bullet. The force of the bullets impact is repelled with exactly the same amount of force applied to the material, creating a null effect, leaving the material unaffected by the impact.  In physics i think this is called equilibrium, though it might fall into the dynamic equilibrium category.
The questions is this....

Is such a material and its reactive properties theoretically possible?


Also

If such a material was created would it conflict with Newtons laws? yes


On a fantastical note, if such a material was created it would I my belief change human progress entirely. Bullet proof really becomes bullet proof.....the pressure of deep beneath the ocean or the vacuum of space would be meaningless...

ahh, I know Im a dreamer but Im not the only one!

please, on a serious note, your views please.


No any material that the bullet hit would always  absorb some of the bullets kinetic energy  converting it into heat and  yes i believe any such material would definitely conflict with newtons laws.

But lets wait for a better more in depth explanation as to why its not possible.

On a side note the Russian army uses reactive armour on their tanks, however the energy from a shell hitting the tank is repelled using explosive armour which redirects the energy of the blast away.

PS
Welcome to the dark side sorry forum:)

Michael


Michael
« Last Edit: 11/07/2006 23:09:36 by ukmicky »
 

another_someone

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Re: a question for all you smart types
« Reply #2 on: 11/07/2006 23:18:06 »
The point about any bulletproof armour is not that it stops the energy of a bullet, but that it spreads out the energy of a bullet over a wide area.

A bullet is a projectile fired from a gun.  If the bullet has so much kinetic energy that a human being could not withstand it, then the person holding the gun would be killed by the recoil of the gun.

The reason a bullet can kill is because it has a small cross-sectional area, and even more so if it has a pointed nose.  This small cross-section allows a great concentration of force over a small area, and this allows the bullet to penetrate it target.

The objective of a bullet-proof armour is to spread that force over a wide area, so the bullet lack the concentration of force in order to penetrate its target.

Certainly, as Michael has said, there is some tank armour that uses explosives to  disrupt the energy of an incoming projectile (I actually thought this was not so much in favour these days, since the way to counter such armour is to strafe the tank with machine gun fire, thus triggering all the defensive explosive, and thus leaving the tank then denuded of its defence).  This, in some ways is not that unlike what you are talking about with your active repulsion of incoming bullets.  Nonetheless, even this explosive force has a recoil force upon the underlying tank, but because that recoil is spread over a large enough area, it does not pose a threat to the tank itself.

Although we know of no gaseous material that can change form in the way you refer to, there are various liquids (or more precisely, suspensions in liquid) that can change their characteristics very rapids according to magnetic, or other external factors (some are being investigated for personal armour).  It seems likely that a gas would not have sufficient substance to it to create a powerful enough effect.

Another problem you may have is that if you are rebounding bullets all over the place, you need to know what the ricochet is going to do you could very easily end up killing innocent bystanders, or your collogues in arms.



George
 

Offline xetho

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Re: a question for all you smart types
« Reply #3 on: 12/07/2006 12:26:03 »
You should check out non-newtonian liquids. They act like liquids, but when pressure is applied they act like solids. There was a cool Brainiac episode where they filled a pool with custard (corn-starch type) and walked across the pool. When the guy stopped moving, he sank in to his ankles and had a hard time getting out.

As far as the gas that solidifies when you run a current through it, it wouldn't have to be metallic. There are many non-metallic conductors, including all plasmas.
If you're using electricity, then it would probably be a magnetic attraction between the particles that would make them solidify.
 

ROBERT

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Re: a question for all you smart types
« Reply #4 on: 12/07/2006 17:00:05 »
" Liquid Armor  

 A new "liquid armor" could be the solution for protecting the parts of the body that aren't currently covered by standard-issue ballistic vests arms and legs, where many of these devastating and life-threatening injuries occur. Co-developed by two research teams one led by Norman Wagner at the University of Delaware, and the other led by Eric Wetzel at the U.S. Army Research Lab in Aberdeen, MD the liquid technology will soon lead to light, flexible full-body armor.
 
The liquid - called shear thickening fluid is actually a mixture of hard nanoparticles and nonevaporating liquid. It flows normally under low-energy conditions, but when agitated or hit with an impact it stiffens and behaves like a solid. This temporary stiffening occurs less than a millisecond after impact, and is caused by the nanoparticles forming tiny clusters inside the fluid. "The particles jam up forming a log jam structure that prevents things from penetrating through them," Wagner explains.

Wagner and Wetzel developed a way to specially treat ballistic fabrics, such as Kevlar, with the liquid, making them dramatically more resistant to puncture and much better at reducing blunt trauma.

"We integrate those materials with the fabric itself, imbibe it in a way, such that the shear thickening fluid is not at all evident, it's not a coating on the outside. It's actually intercalated directly into the material," says Wagner.

The stiffening of the liquid allows the energy of an impact to be distributed over a much larger surface area so the force, rather than being focused on the area of a bullet head, is distributed over the area of the surrounding fabric. Ballistic tests have demonstrated that the treatment can actually prevent bullets from penetrating. "
http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?type=article&article_id=218392807
« Last Edit: 12/07/2006 17:05:12 by ROBERT »
 

Offline Atomic-S

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Re: a question for all you smart types
« Reply #5 on: 14/07/2006 07:01:54 »
In physics we speak of the idealized elastic collision. That is one in which one object strikes another, both deform to whatever extent the extant energy requires, then spring apart with their original energy and assume their former shapes; but not their former paths of travel. The new paths of travel are determined by the conservation of energy, the conservation of momentum, and the conservation of angular momentum (which is involved if the impact is skewed and not dead center). The less massive object will receive the greatest change in velocity. Thus, an idealized bullet striking an idealized armored target will rebound with most of its original energy, heading the opposite direction with almost its original speed. The target, however, although undamanged,will be given a certain amount of momentum, and will move somewhat, depending on the ratio of its mass to that of the bullet. That speed will be quite low, of course, in the case of a bullet hitting a tank.
 

Offline Atomic-S

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Re: a question for all you smart types
« Reply #6 on: 14/07/2006 07:06:47 »
As pertains to electronically solidifying gasses: The concept is inherently problematic but perhaps not impossible in principle. The main problem is that with most gasses, the intermolecular spacing is substantially greater than the size of the molecules,so that there is no conceivable way of them locking on to each other (short of condensation into a far smaller volume). Plus they have a relatively high kinetic energy, which typically requires a substantial temperature reduction to get under any kind of control. The only way a gas might be electronically solidifiable is if abnormal conditions prevail, such as very high pressure (which would keep the molecules in relatively close proximity), or temperatures close to the liquefaction point (having much the same effect), and even then, there would have to be some fancy molecular behavior to cause the generally independentlyk moving molecules to link. One almost thinks that such molecules would have to be carefully designed to "morph" their form rather dramatically, and while such molecules are possible, they tend to be large and therefore incompatible with existing in the gaseous state.
 

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Re: a question for all you smart types
« Reply #6 on: 14/07/2006 07:06:47 »

 

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