[John21 (OP)]

GC,

Anything else for your dietary changes? Are you not eating sugar? on some sort of diet?  Changed sleeping habits?

Nothing else, I'm not big into sweets but I do eat some sugar, I have honey on toast twice daily.

[Defsync]

From my research yesterday, I noticed Amine oxidase (copper-containing) breaks down histamine. Wasn't cure if taking copper would help, until I ran across this book this morning:

http://books.google.com/books?id=YFJRD_lrkpwC&pg=PA232&lpg=PA232&dq=diamine+oxidase+copper&source=bl&ots=wiqng9stIt&sig=v_vOLzclVz0kuYEW3l243Oibfas&hl=en&ei=wX2RSsrDAoqcMPWf8JEK&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=diamine%20oxidase%20copper&f=false

Scroll down to bottom of page 232

"Two copper supplementation studies demonstrated that the activity of serum diamine oxidase (DAO) another cuproenzyme, increases when supplements containing 2mg (Jones, et al, 1997) and 6mg (Keho et a;, 2000) of copper were administered daily, a result that suggests the enzyme may be sensitive to increased dietary copper."

Alright, Im headed to the store to grab a copper supplement right now. Yesterday I O'd as part of a research of the affects of legal amphetamines (Adderall, Dexedrine, of which I am prescribed) on POIS symptoms . (first O in such a long time..... years....  ugh... makes me want to chop meh @#$!$ off) and the results of the amphetamines on POIS brain fog so far are (concentration: somewhat affective, memory recall: no effect, lethargic symptoms: no affect, physical discomfort symptoms: somewhat affective, heat/cold aversion: somewhat effective, POIS induced anxiety: somewhat effective) I can still feel POIS brain fog rearing it's ugly head, but it doesn't seem to be bothering me as much. I'm thinking it's just helping "mask" POIS, not having a directly positive effect on it.

Tomorrow is a work day tho, so I'll have a better idea of it's effectiveness in a fast-paced work environment where concentration is greatly needed.

[wooder]

well hi all I am pretty new here and wondered, as this is a new thing for me at 35, whether in the past its has effected me in a more minor way

guess I have over masturbated since my teens

had a handful of girlfreinds and think I may have noticed this in a very minor way before but not like recently

I had a kundalini awakening 9 years ago and recently that seems to have vanished

recently had a distant healing, froma  guy called Allan Sweeney

when I related the loss in energy and of blood to my face having masturbated, he explained that he could never ejaculate as he lost too much energy and i think he was talking about it in much more aura/chakras/lifeforce chi type way

I am sure many chinnese dudes have said for a while that over doing it is not good for ya, depsite the western apporach

well lifeforce chi/aura is ceratinly how it feels for me

masturbated twice last week( after having the distant healing)

since then I have have felt tearful, depressed, irrtaibel anxious, my legs and body weak and my hands, and feet particularly sensetive and jittery

I feel life has lost it's spark and kinda flat emotionally

energetically I almost feel like I have been garrotted in the base chakra of energy

and to think after 9 years of not dating for other kundalini related reasons, I was hoping to date again, which seems now like yet another pain

I am waiting to begin a job working in the mental health field, working with people who suffer with schizpohrenia so the last thing, I can afford is, severely depleted energy, weakness and feeling listless

I am choked and at the moment, don't see a soloution as I am aware of much of the eastern , thought on this , regarding semen loss= chi loss , which regulate the chakras and all vital organs

I guess I could try the tantra method and still try and have fun

last time I ejaculated was wenesday and I still don't feel quite right

[CrazyFox]

Hey Wooder,

I also had a kundalini awakening about 10 years ago and believed that I was losing vital essence once...but now I feel differently...I really think after much research into both western and eastern belief systems that this is truly a psychological/biochemical occurence and that the eastern people didnt have the scientific knowledge at the time so they created a different model that worked well enough, but logically, the body produces semen all the time, so semen loss isn't the cuplrit, it is orgasm that creates a biological shift....see sites like: http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_and_addiction [nofollow]

I have noticed negative mood shifts since I first started masturbating around age 9 or so (in retrospect).   I have also had times even recently when I orgasmed and there was no POIS....apparently my brain chemicals remained more stable, perhaps due to have eaten just the right foods at the time or having had just the right attitude.

I really believe that guilt plays a huge role in this thing....when I was a kid and my mother told me it was bad to masturbate I had guilt from that..I think that the continual cycle of lust, followed by sexual release, followed by guilt created specific nervous connections in my brain which resulted in a pathway developing which caused depression and all the other stuff...when I was over the guilt from that after realizing that my mother was a fool, it took a while to undo that pathway.  Even after that issue was resolved there was still some post-orgasm mood changes worthy of note ad I think that is just the natural effect as discussed on that link above.  Then when I started getting heavily into eastern thought, reading that I was losing vital essence produced another guilt complex...I believed I was being 'spiritually inmature' and undisciplined and losing my chi like you did and this created more pathways over time (years) where I would hate myself for being weak and losing chi because I couldnt control my urges...so the POIS was way worse simply from my belief that I was screwing up....After much research into western knowledge database I no longer believe in the wasting vital essence theory, instead I believe that it is simply a series of complex biochemical shifts causing the feelings of lethargy, depression, etc.  When I truly backed away from the fear that I was losing life energy, the POIS definitely decreased permanently.  I think that even the fear of the POIS symptoms could create a post-orgasm stress reaction increasing cortisol and defeating any kind of positive afterglow.  Mental attitude has a strong effect....Thoughts have the power to create energy, affect your biochemistry.  If you think that you are doing wrong to yourself from orgasming, then you will increase negative effects accordingly...extremely spiritual people are by nature extra sensative to feelings - more in tune with subtle energies....it is my belief that the old Taoist masters and Tantric masters and so forth did note the natural change in brain chemistry, note the tiredness and change in emotionality, the reduction in positive feelings, and they assumed it was a loss of life energy.  This simply created an even bigger issue.

There are many famous Taoist masters who died in their 80s...there are many normal westerners and europeans who lived by western standards, who compared to the eastern practitioners lived lives of excess and certainly overindulged in sex who lived into their 100s...it was because they didnt believe it was an issue that it didnt cause them to feel stressed out or feel guilt.

Now I am not saying that there ISN'T a negative effect from orgasming, there is...but once you realize it is just a natural shift and will recover, alot of that stress goes away...you just have to deal with feeling tired, etc. for some days...

I see some people on this site who have extremely horrible symptoms when coming. They are the extreme side of the bell curve...their balance is off for whatever reason...the very thought of orgasm probably automatically produces a rise in stress hormones...and if they actually orgasm I am sure that the effects are compounded by the expectation of what is to come afterwards.  Placebo effect works both ways, you can believe the sugar pills will do something good and they will do more good than they would have if you didnt have that belief, or you can believe they will harm you and you will create stress and harm from the belief systems....Where belief and thought goes, energy goes, and chemistry is energy and you will co-create a reality.  I am just saying that its time for you to choose a better belief system so you dont harm yourself when its not necessary.

I am sure that Mantak Chia will live for a long time...but I bet that there is some old French guy somewhere for example who is drinking his coffee and eating his croissants who is 110 years already and has never done a single microcosmic orbit exercise who will outlive Mantak Chia...

Ever heard of Occam's Razor?  It's a model that says that the simplest explanation is usually the true one...to me it is much more simple that the post-orgasm effects are natural ways for the animal to maintain homeostasis and possibly insures that there will be more genetic diversity.  Some people's systems just become more unbalanced is all.

Losing life essence?  Not in my book.   I believed it for 10 years +  now I am over it...

[CertainlyPOIS]

John for how many weeks have you being doing that beautiful mix of your. 

I think it might be that cranberry because of its antioxidant power.  the am reading on chronic fatigue, really emphazies an antioxiant called pycogenol, may that is it.


Martin 88, have you ever noticed blureed vision because that is one of the symptoms of pitiutary extra growth.

[Dean93]

To everyone who talks about blurry vision and "stuff" in your eyes, is there any physical substance that you can touch, or does it feel like it's actually in your eyes. For me, I can't touch it or anything, but when I rub my eyes, I can see everything a little bit clearer, and then it sets back in...

[GoingCrazy]

Dean93,  my blurry vision seemed to start off where I would have it all day and I would rub my eyes and not touch anything.    Now the vision is only bad in the morning, and this I can actually "rub" away some yellow build up. 

I really think this may have to do with hormonal balancing.

When I "O", I have the bad feeling take over, and when I sleep, the good feeling takes over.  It has to do something with neurotransmitters and hormones.  I don't know about candida because this wouldn't happen.

Plus a few days ago I was overloading with sugars and sweets and that did not bother me at all, it is only when I "O" that I experience all the bad symptoms for a day or two, whenever I get a good nights sleep it goes away.

John21, thanks for your info. I have another question.   Do you ever "O" on your own and how many NE's did it take for you to feel non-POIS?  How long was that?

[Dean93]

Dean93,  my blurry vision seemed to start off where I would have it all day and I would rub my eyes and not touch anything.    Now the vision is only bad in the morning, and this I can actually "rub" away some yellow build up. 

Sorry to ask too many question GC, but are you saying that you can rub the yellow stuff off and see it on your finger?

[Dean93]

CrazyFox

I think anhedonia is a great way to describe the way I feel during POIS. I'm sure alot of other sufferers would agree.

[GoingCrazy]

Dean93,  my blurry vision seemed to start off where I would have it all day and I would rub my eyes and not touch anything.    Now the vision is only bad in the morning, and this I can actually "rub" away some yellow build up. 

Sorry to ask too many question GC, but are you saying that you can rub the yellow stuff off and see it on your finger?

Yes, I can actually see it on my fingers now.  About 2 months ago i would have blurry vision almost 24/7 and when I rubbed my eyes either nothing would be shown on my finger or a clear substance which may have been the fluid in my eyes.  No problem with the questions I ask a lot too.

[GoingCrazy]

I know I've probably said this before, and it may have been said plenty of times in the past.  Could this just be too much adrenaline released after sex?  Strangely I get the same symptoms of POIS after playing poker on the internet, which may attribute to the adrenaline idea.  Could explain recovery time too. 

Maybe we all just need to balance the adrenaline in our systems by keeping healthy.  Also I may have said in the past that I believe coffee caused this in me.  That would mean hormones, specifically adrenaline. 

[demografx]

Wow! This has been a great couple of pages of ideas flowing fast and furiously!

I gave up on Mantak Chia way too late, so I'm really glad to see the question marks around "loss of chi" as a POIS explanation.

Interesting about testosterone, which is my 75% cure.

And frequency of orgasm makes a lot of sense. It might be unhealthy for anyone...at some level of frequency, unique to the individual. Maybe I can be ok at not more than 2x/month, and you can be ok at not more than 2x/day. Even with effective treatment.

I also find Adderall helps superficially.

And I have now joined this peculiar POIS Club of occasionally POIS-free experiences (2 recently, first time EVER in 30 years that I can recall!) It was pointed out that positive mood (or to use the 60s expression, "set and setting") can do that. I believe that. Conversely, the guilt and other negativity recently colluded to give me one of the worst POIS episodes ever, even with the testosterone treatment. The part that I can explain best was excess frequency (for me).

John, my 2 POIS-free occasions must be your great influence! (For those newcomers who don't know, John21 bravely posted here for the first time over 2 years ago, thereby creating this forum - the "Genesis" of POIS as a forum). And, deservedly, he has recently "stumbled" on a number of consecutive POIS-free experiences, with no certain explanation!

POIS should be made The Eighth Wonder Of The World...but I'd rather see the Giza Pyramid.....POIS-free......

[RhythmSpring]

I just realized that POIS symptoms closely resemble Lyme's disease symptoms: fevers, fatigue, brain fog, vision trouble, depression, and if I recall correctly some of you have inflammation problems. Consider the facts.
Eating carbs and sugar worsens symptoms. Carbs and sugar is what bacteria like Lyme eats.
Orgasms boost/strengthen the immune system. Lyme symptoms are mainly the over-activation of the immune system. Activated immune system therefore makes symptoms worse.

Just up for consideration.

-A POIS and Lyme sufferer

[CrazyFox]

I really agree with the different folks having different maximum frequencies for orgasming/ejaculating before POIS sets in with a vengeance.  In respect to the Taoists and other Eastern thinkers, they have found this out over the millennia....Mantak Cha laid it out in one of his books, actually giving a table that showed a person's age and the recommended frequency of letting go.  The older one gets, the less often, until after a certain age (somewhere in old age), one should just avoid orgasm and ejaculating at all costs.

I once remember hearing in conversation that the Japanese consider men being of two types: men with strong and men with weak chi...and they thought that the weak chi men shouldnt orgasm as frequently so as not to lose vital power.

This made me think about the difference between introverts and extroverts, having once read a book called 'The Introvert Advantage.'  Introverts have a sensitivity to dopamine it seems...

"Introverts have reactions to two neurotransmitters. They have a low tolerance to dopamine, the thrill-seeking neurotransmitter. Essentially, introverts need way less of this than do extroverts, and too much dopamine makes them anxious and eventually drained. For introverts, outside stimulation which increases dopamine levels is much like being tickled: not so bad at first, but it can escalate and become very stressful and uncomfortable. Introverts prefer the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which produces a feeling of calm and wellbeing. This neurotransmitter is raised during calm, reflective activities like reading or drawing."

I am introvert, and as the sex act definitely releases alot of dopamine, thought there might be a strange relationship between this and POIS....anyone else here an introvert?

Oh yeah, I also have used Adderall to great benefit...definitely seemed to curb many of the POIS symptoms when I took it.   Makes sense in many ways....

[wooder]

interesting , what you say there

I am quite outgoing these days, though do think in my heart of hearts, I do prfer the company of a small group of freinds or just a freind to large groups, so would say that to some degree, recognise the experience of almost feeling feeling too up and feeling uncomfortable and anxious about how well life can be going sometimes

I forgot to mention, I have an autoimmune disease called Plummonary Sarcoidosis, which although dormant in many senses, may go some, way, to explaining the POIS

with everything others have said, about lyme disease and the immune system it kinda makes sense

[John21 (OP)]

CC,

 
John for how many weeks have you being doing that beautiful mix of your.

I'd guess around 5-6 months.

GC,

John21, thanks for your info. I have another question.   Do you ever "O" on your own and how many NE's did it take for you to feel non-POIS?  How long was that?

I transitioned to a normally chaste life a few years ago and I rarely O now, although I have once in these recent months, and even then I was non-POIS. I'm not sure about your second question, are you asking how many consecutive NEs make me feel non-POIS? If so I am POIS free after any NE.

I should mention that after one time I had an ever so slight throbbing of the neck glands, something that used to occur in POIS, but it was very minor and might have been unrelated. All of my "mental change" which was the devastating aspect have been non existant. I wish I knew more about what is going on, but my guess is bacterial or viral. I am hoping some of you try the cranberry thing.

[wooder]

can't help but think that in many ways POIS symtpons are similiar to chronic fatigue syndrome but on a tempoary basis

[GoingCrazy]

I just realized that POIS symptoms closely resemble Lyme's disease symptoms: fevers, fatigue, brain fog, vision trouble, depression, and if I recall correctly some of you have inflammation problems. Consider the facts.
Eating carbs and sugar worsens symptoms. Carbs and sugar is what bacteria like Lyme eats.
Orgasms boost/strengthen the immune system. Lyme symptoms are mainly the over-activation of the immune system. Activated immune system therefore makes symptoms worse.

Just up for consideration.

-A POIS and Lyme sufferer

I was thinking the same thing.  I'm going to my doctor this friday to get blood tested, etc.  I really want to know what is wrong and I need to stop self-diagnosing myself.  I know many of you have been from doctor to doctor... I just really hope he does find something.

Right now I am in a 150% pois stage that doesn't seem to get any better, I am really just freaking out.  There would have to be no way that hormones can cause this feeling I am experiencing right now.

RhythmSpring,  are you being treated for Lyme? I saw in your post you are a Lyme and Pois sufferer.

[GoingCrazy]

John21, what I was asking was about how many NE's did you experience before the next NE you had was non-pois?

[RhythmSpring]

B_Jim, I actually do have terrible inflammation symptoms, and I used to have terrible spiking fevers with chills, but that has slowed down since I've taken antibiotics.

goingcrazy, I am being treated for Lyme. I may have something close to late stage, so I'm taking 3 separate "antis" (antibiotic, antimicrobial, antibacterial, etc.)

Actually, looking back at my own health history, it seems that I've had POIS symptoms for as long as I now suspect I've had Lyme. That's about 3-4 years.