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Author Topic: How does magnetism affect the body, if at all?  (Read 81702 times)

Offline Ylide

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #25 on: 24/06/2004 02:22:48 »
My mom wore a magnetic wrist band for a while to help with carpal tunnel syndrome.  She claimed it made her wrists feel a lot better until I explained that the wristband was keeping her from bending her wrists excessively and the immobilization of the wrist to minimize pressure on the nerves in the wrist is the first line of treatment for that condition.  It was more the band than the magnet.  

I have no problem with people using things like magnets and receiving a placebo effect, but when they start buying these things to try and cure medical conditions like high blood pressure and poor circulation the link Alice posted tries to claim, it harms more than it helps.

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Offline neilep

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #26 on: 24/06/2004 13:08:54 »
It astounds me how gullible people are sometimes...but I suppose if they don't know any diferent then ignorance can't be helped..................I notice they do offer a money back guarantee but surely they must have to say somewhere that it's a proven method....not write some silly quotes from people (probably self written anyway)

And they are not mentioning the differences in  the strengths of the magnetic fields in their bracelets against the strengths of the professional equipment as Jay has mentioned.



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Offline bezoar

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #27 on: 26/06/2004 07:03:37 »
Gullible? We had a doctor here, and I do mean MD, who was washing his patients heads in peroxide to treat for Alzheimer's.  As if the oxygen in the peroxide would penetrate the skull.  And you should have seen how they lined up for treatment.  Makes me ashamed of my profession.  Then there are the docs who use chelation therapy for everything, saying is can't hurt you.  Yes it can.  It can blow your kidneys out.  I get crazy on this kind of stuff, cause I think people don't even try to figure out what's logical and makes good sense.  Now anyone should know that you can't wash your head in peroxide and cure Alzheimer's.  OH PLEASE............
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #28 on: 27/06/2004 16:11:11 »
quote:
Originally posted by bezoar

Gullible? We had a doctor here, and I do mean MD, who was washing his patients heads in peroxide to treat for Alzheimer's.  As if the oxygen in the peroxide would penetrate the skull.  And you should have seen how they lined up for treatment.  Makes me ashamed of my profession.  Then there are the docs who use chelation therapy for everything, saying is can't hurt you.  Yes it can.  It can blow your kidneys out.  I get crazy on this kind of stuff, cause I think people don't even try to figure out what's logical and makes good sense.  Now anyone should know that you can't wash your head in peroxide and cure Alzheimer's.  OH PLEASE............



Cripes !!!!..could he have been one of the patients dressed up ?....How on earth can a doctor do that ?....they must have some form of rationale to explain it eh ?

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #29 on: 27/06/2004 23:25:49 »
Yep, it's called money.  Or -- there's a sucker born every minute.  He calls it "alternative medicine".
 

Offline Exodus

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #30 on: 04/07/2004 07:23:10 »
I had never seen this magnetic therapy malarkey till i got over here to Australia, they seem to fill their morning shows with sales segments and loads of people are trying to flog them. They are selling whole bed covers now so you get their beneficial effects throughout the night. Would be interesting to know if they did actually work rather than hearing from an old sports star who has been paid to SAY that it works!
 

Offline Steven Renwick

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #31 on: 02/08/2004 15:53:44 »
I hope it's not complete rubbish.

I've just started trying to sell them online after trawling through Pubmed and reading about it.

This is what I found:

newbielink:http://www.majormagnets.co.uk/evidence.html [nonactive]

-Steve
« Last Edit: 10/10/2004 17:59:36 by Steven Renwick »
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #32 on: 15/08/2004 23:09:38 »
Gsmollin have you spoken to any of your old Medcor colleagues yet?  I feel that magnetic therapy has potential, but we don't know how to use it effectively yet.
« Last Edit: 15/08/2004 23:15:34 by Donnah »
 

Offline gsmollin

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #33 on: 25/08/2004 21:30:34 »
No, we only get together once a year, and there are less of us every year. It used to be fun, but lately I get bummed. One of the principal investigators of the magnetic therapy had a bad stroke, and hasn't been to the last 2 reunions. One of the fellows is my age, however, and I'll ask him if he knows what happened after Medcor.
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #34 on: 16/10/2004 22:21:58 »
Jay, I wouldn't be so quick to disparage the magnetic bracelet claims.  I agree that there are a lot of greedy asses out there (that I'd love to kick) who will falsely promise the moon if you buy their product, but there could be something to magnetic bracelets that affects the energy meridians, sort of like a trickle charge on a battery.

I know from experience that when your life is torn apart by pain/illness and nothing is working, you get desperate and will try almost anything, regardless of how outlandish it seems.

Bruce tried magnetic therapy under a huge electromagnet for his hip and I lay under it with him for a while.  It felt to me like static looks on a TV screen.  It didn't help him, but he did it for only two nights.  I would have tried more like ten nights.
« Last Edit: 16/10/2004 22:22:48 by Donnah »
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #35 on: 24/10/2004 11:30:21 »
I see your point Donnah...maybe I wasn't clear.  There's a huge difference between a little magnet on your wrist and a huge electromagnet.  The small magnets that are sold by 99% of the purveyors of such items are not going to be powerful enough to have a significant effect on the body.  There's little evidence that even a strong magnetic field does much of anything, though it may have potential.  

Think about what a magnet does:  It polarizes the electrons in a ferromagnetic material and it affects the trajectory of electrons that pass through the field.  Since there is nothing ferromagnetic in your body (iron carried in hemoglobin is ionic...iron ions are not ferromagnetic, only elemental iron) you're left with affecting electron flow.  

The only place that significant flow of electrons over any real distance occurs is in the nervous system and the electrons are bound into the nerve pathway by insulating layers around the nerves.  (there is electron flow in redox reactions but the electrons move less than a few nanometers)  The best you can do is place the magnet so that it's field is oriented in a way that the electron is accelerated along it's path.  This is a fairly precise condition not readily achieved without knowing enough about nerve anatomy and magnetic fields to place the magnet in the EXACT correct position.  Move the magnet slightly while it's being worn and you disrupt the orientation of the field.  



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Offline Donnah

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #36 on: 25/10/2004 06:31:30 »
Wish I had known about this site when I was trying all those things to get well.  It would have shortened the financial recovery I'm still experiencing.

"Remember, if you ever need a helping hand, you will find one at the end of each of your arms." - Audrey Hepburn
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #37 on: 29/10/2004 07:23:32 »
Live and learn.  ;)

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Offline Steven Renwick

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #38 on: 24/01/2005 13:40:39 »
newbielink:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15604181 [nonactive]
Magnetic therapy article in the British Medical Journal. These authors find that the Bioflow magnets have a significant effect on arthritis of the hip and knee.

Not proof, and no mechanism suggested, but just something to bear in mind.

Yes I do sell them, but I'm not biased just objective.:)

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newbielink:http://www.majormagnets.co.uk [nonactive] Bioflow - Major_Magnets
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #39 on: 22/02/2005 11:36:04 »
I read the abstract you posted.... it really doesn't say anything more than pain scores decreased by a mean of 1.3 points for the test group and the results were not conclusive enough to contstrue anything definitive.  1.3 points is not a large margin on the pain scale and there were only 200 test subjects.   I quote the last line:  "It is uncertain whether this response is due to specific or non-specific (placebo) effects."

Not exactly a "significant" effect, as you say, but it might merit a further look.

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Offline xbeanx3000

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #40 on: 24/03/2005 23:00:35 »
I think you can analize things too much and end up believing in research  that tells only one side of the facts. I've used BioFlo wrist bands before, and I can tell you that it does help with dull pains and speeds up healing around the body, all from a tiny BioFlo wrist band. I'm someone with an open mind, I didn't 'wish' for it to do anything when using the magnet, it just worked. In some people (like my mother for instance) it can make them feel dizzy. If it's powerful enough to do all this, why isn't there any research that has shown it?

One last thing. They're probably many brands that ARE rubbish.
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #41 on: 29/03/2005 12:26:39 »
There's no accounting for the healing power of placebo.  Magnets, glyconutrients, ginseng, whatever the trend de jour is will have a fantastic placebo effect which is often more powerful than any prescription.  

Here's a fun article on the self-healing power of the mind:

http://www.newstarget.com/001125.html

Your body has physiological mechanisms to repair almost any injury or illness.  You just need to trick yourself into doing it.  





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Offline Magic Fingers

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #42 on: 02/04/2005 14:33:05 »
I have been suffering with Plantar Fascitis (inflammation of the Plantar surface of the feet) for 3 months now with no relief. I purchased the Sobakawa magnetic insoles on ebay for $4.00 . When ever I put on those slippers with the insoles, my feet seemed to feel better. When I wore them for a few hours or a whole day my feet were much improved with no pain and my feet felt great. I decided to be agressive and wear the insoles for long periods of time and my plantar fascitis dissappeared. You may poo poo magnetic therapy all you wish. THe magnets worked wonders on my feet. I am not someone who can be helped or cured by some placebo. I work in the medical field and am very critical of any "Magical Cures" or "Magical Thinking". Use your own experience to decide.

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #43 on: 14/04/2005 13:24:47 »
OK I have read most of the ignorant rants and attacks on magnet therapy.
As this is a scientific forum, how about conducting a simple experiment with magnets and a bottle of water?

Place a bottle of water, on top of a strong magnet with the north pole closest to the bottle, leave in contact with the magnet/s for 24 hours then pour yourself a nice glass full of water and drink it. Record what happens in the hours that follow and report back to this forum.

A Friend sufers from abdominal pain due to a common medical condition known as uterine fibroids. If she places magnets next to the pain, the pain completely subsides within an hour or two. If she does not use the magnets the pain continues to become more progressive.

Furthermore, there are some very obvious changes in the shape of the fibroids. The magnets appear to make the fibroids contract into a hard ball shape, and a visible reduction in size becomes obvious.

She is hoping that the magnetic field will reduce the microcirculation in the tumours in the long term. But is quite content with the effectiveness of the magnets as an extremely effective pain killer.

One possible benefit of small magnets on the fluids inside our body is the inevitable altered polarity of the fluids. This is used to great effect to improve the performance.

Anyone used a magnet to enhance the fuel consumption and performance of a car engine?


  With a magnetic field we can increase the internal energy of the fuel, to cause specific changes at a molecular level. Increasing the internal energy to obtain more easier combustion. The molecules fly apart easier, join with oxygen easier and ignite easier. 'Ionization' implies that the fuel acquires a 'charge' and molecules of like charge repel each other, this makes fuel dispersal more efficient. Then if you charge the air to the opposite polarity, then the fuel and oxygen combine far quicker than 'normal'.  We can obtain about:
            80% -90% Reduction in Hydrocarbon emissions.
            60% -80% Reduction in Carbon Monoxide emissions.
            20% Reduction in Nitrogen Oxides.
            10% - 40% in Consume Reduction.
            8% - 60% in Increase Mileage.
http://www.tinet.org/~sje/mag_fuel.htm

My own experience with this technology is the use of one of these devices on a friends Vauxhall//Bedford CF van with a notoriously problematic opel petrol engine. This van was used to do continental house removals, often driven in excess of 2k miles continuous down to southern France and Spain and back.

On removal of the cylinder head at 280,000 miles we were astonished to find that there was absolutely no bore wear on this engine! It did however get through 3 gear boxes and a rear axle during its somewhat harduous lifestyle.

But back to the proposed experiment with a bottle of magnetised water.

Advise: Make sure you are not going to drive following imbibing the water.

Andrew



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Offline gsmollin

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #44 on: 15/04/2005 17:15:55 »
All of these claims, and rants, contain a fatal flaw. The patient knew about the treatment. Even in double-blind studies, the placebo effect shows up, and the cure rate of the control group must be subtracted from cure rate of the treated group to give the effectiveness of the medication. We cannot assess the effectiveness of any therapy by ourselves. Whether it's copper bracelets, magnets, or aspirin, some people will improve, some will get worse, and some will have no effect. Only by careful monitoring of the whole group can the effectiveness of the medication be found.
 

Offline chris

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #45 on: 15/04/2005 17:57:03 »
That's absolutely right. In medicine, patients do better just by being entered in a trial, regardless of whether you give them anything or not !

Chris

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Offline xenoak47

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #46 on: 17/04/2005 08:03:06 »
Some of the science behind Magnetic Therapy:
newbielink:http://www.garynull.com/Documents/magnets.htm [nonactive]

Its been used on animals for years. You can't trick a horse into thinking its bones are healing faster.

It will take years and years of research and studies before magnetic therapy is accepted by the medical community even if it does really work. I guess the only way you can be certain is to try it out yourself...
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #47 on: 17/04/2005 17:17:10 »

The problem with waiting for a double blind trial on any alternative treatement to take place is the financial burdon it would impose on any individual or small group.

These studies are designed to prohibit anything that does not give a high financial return. The drug cartel's have cornered the globe in research and patents relating to drugs, as you well know!

There is now a massive move to remove many freely available food based alternatives off the shelves for good. There will be little to no attempt to provided these vitamins with the required investements to get them past the stringent drug orientated controls imposed by an industry that earns more than oil!

Why would they? So unless you have the insight to find out for yourselves whether a product or therapy offers a viable treatment, who the hell is going to conduct the studies to then be in a position to say take this magnet once every three hours and place it on the effected area in order to relieve pain????? When they can sell another $billion's worth of prescription drugs???

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Offline rosy

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #48 on: 17/04/2005 20:40:34 »
The magnetlabs link doesn't seem to work.
 

Offline rosy

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #49 on: 17/04/2005 20:41:19 »
Ah. Sorry. You just need to take out the comma, which seems to have got itself included in the link.
 

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Re: Magnetic Therapy
« Reply #49 on: 17/04/2005 20:41:19 »

 

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