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Author Topic: Tectonic plates, how do they move?  (Read 18802 times)

paul.fr

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Tectonic plates, how do they move?
« on: 30/05/2007 18:39:08 »
I was on the bus the other day and some people were arguing with a girl who said that, there is water beneath the continents and that's how they move.

Now this got me thinking, just how do tectonic plates move? and where does the force come from?


 

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Tectonic plates, how do they move?
« Reply #1 on: 31/05/2007 02:09:39 »
I suppose in crude terms, one can think of the continental plates as the clouds on the magma of the Earth - i.e. hot magma rises from the depths, reaches the surface, cools into a solid crust, and then sinks like rain back (ok, only in subduction zones, rather than the somewhat more diffuse way in which actual rain falls) into the depths again, thus forming a convection current that allows heat to escape from within the Earth.
 

Offline K.Margiani

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« Reply #2 on: 18/09/2007 15:53:38 »
        www.cosmogeology.ge/event.png
 http://www.cosmogeology.ge/event.png
AT  THE  END  OF  GEOEVOLUTION WHEN  ALL  GEOSPHERE  HAS  SOLID  AGGREGATION STATE  EVERY  SPACEBODY HAS ABOUT  10 %   ADDITIONAL VOLUME  THAN  DURING  LIQUID  STAGE.

    Pressure forces at the AB boundary...P1.

    Pressure forces at the BC boundary...P2.

    Pressure forces at the DE boundary...P3.

    Pressure forces at the EF boundary...P4.

    P1  inner geoforces are tectonic forces. They are reason of crustquakes,  subduction  zones, volcano eruptions, interaction of crust tiles, mountains growth...

   All spacebodies have or had similar geoevolution.
 

Offline K.Margiani

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« Reply #3 on: 21/09/2007 12:08:47 »
Small geocatastrophes are the result of aggregation state changes under crust and into cracks of the crust too. Global defect of volume into the asthenosphere causes very slowly vertical displacement of lithosphere plates. Between plates creaks step by step are opening. Into the cracks between lithosphere plates magma slowly flows in, so that enormous intrusive bodies can to form. During hardening they cause global defect of volume into cracks. Colossal tension between plates occurs as the result. This result creates horizontal and vertical displacements between plate’s cracks and there are creating new free volumes. Tension into active cracks increases, permanent displacement, and interactions between plates are reason of earthquakes and volcanoes. Additional asthenosphere masses flow into free volume of creaks. Some plate submerging slowly and some one grow up. Asthenosphere masses sometimes reach even the Earth crust surface (volcanoes). Plate’s horizontal displacement towards each other during the last one million years was prevented many times. At this time ocean bed undergoes colossal wave deformation. This mostly refers to Pacific Ocean bed. Global defect of volume into asthenosphere and between platforms under influence oceans and continents masses can to create powerful geoforce. This powerful geoforce is the reason of sun-Andres like movements. Vertical displacements, and additional asthenosphere masses flow into creaks. This connected with additional catastrophic strenuously between plates. For decreasing of this powerful catastrophic strenuously between platforms is necessary submerging process part of ocean beds into asthenosphere.
 strong volcano under oceans are reason of tsunami only.
«Mountains growth»... Very dangerous and dreadful geoforces hides behind this term. On the colloquial language, this is only mark of future geocatastrophe similar to the Biblical flood. «Mountains growth»... means catastrophic strenuously between platforms are increasing.
 

Offline jysk

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« Reply #4 on: 24/09/2007 06:39:31 »
Hello Mr. Margiani. Describing a force that drives and even directs tectonics has been a hobby of mine for a couple of years. I read your item titled "Geoevolution of the Earth in the Space".

It sounds like you're leaning toward a form of Expansion Theory as our tectonic mechanism. Specifically, you've written that as molten material at shallow depths solidify, it's volume increases 10%. Forgive me please, and I hope I'm mistaken, but most materials actually shrink a bit when solidifying. The exception is water. It's volume increases 30% at it's change of state from liquid to solid.

I'll assume that the volume does increase as you suggest.

The tension exerted from within a sphere that suffers this simple expansion would be in the form of increased strain. Inside gets big. Brittle surface heaves outward (90 degrees from the geometric center; up to most of us) Surface rifts open in sympathy.

I see no stress. No subduction, and no mountain building. Surface features on this model would be a handful of gigantic spreading zones. (Rather dull geology.)

I don't mean to seem arrogant, but you've left triumphant posts in many threads and none of what I've read satisfies me.

Mike
 

Offline K.Margiani

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« Reply #5 on: 24/09/2007 16:36:15 »
you don't know anything about water. It has about 11% .
I don't want discussing about another admixture.
you can study better.
thank you for your attention!
« Last Edit: 24/09/2007 16:39:06 by K.Margiani »
 

Offline jysk

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« Reply #6 on: 26/09/2007 14:16:39 »
Oops,

I stand corrected about the expansion of water being 30%. But I don't want to discuss admixtures either. Please stop lashing out at people and explain your idea.

Questions raised about your theory make you uncomfortable. Face them and don't feel insulted. Just look at each doubt as one of the checks and balances which need to be overcome for any theory's acceptance. 

Please re-address my previous post.

Mike
 

Offline K.Margiani

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« Reply #7 on: 26/09/2007 15:05:48 »
 I've explaned all my ideas in the cosmogeologycal theory. I've sent the theory for you as the attach file.
I don't left triumphant posts in many threads. I always say: "future is always judge"
I try explain everything. 200 years of research and a wealth of data are not contradict of my arguments. Slowly displacement (drift during peaceful period reason of oceans appear, expand and contract on a geologic timescale) is supported by cosmogeologycal theory as well as all main scientific versions about K/T event.
Important news for scientists is EB geotransfer (rapid movement of outer nocleus masses into asthenosphere) with huge destruction results for lithosphere platforms. (During huge geocatastrophes only)

Please read my theory attentively and than we'll discuss again.
 

Offline JimBob

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« Reply #8 on: 28/09/2007 01:48:24 »
Having waded through all the posted material, I can only draw one conclusion. There is no data, scientific or otherwise, that supports this idea. The paths of refracted seismic waves through the earth, which can be easily be calculated with Newtonian physics, cannot be explained. I feel that there is no basis for this theory.

I was also skeptical of ocean floor spreading and subduction when it was proposed in the early 60's - yes I'm that old. I have seen the evidence that changed my mind. This theory has no supporting evidence, just conclusions.

« Last Edit: 28/09/2007 01:51:11 by JimBob »
 

Offline Ophiolite

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« Reply #9 on: 28/09/2007 12:56:20 »
This theory has no supporting evidence, just conclusions.
I think you are being unduly kind to senor Margiani's proposal, in calling it a theory. Wild, unfounded speculation would be a lot closer. :)
 

Offline K.Margiani

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« Reply #10 on: 28/09/2007 15:33:14 »
This theory has no supporting evidence, just conclusions.
here are few  supporting evidence and a lot of conclusion evidences.
   I'm working,it needs very many time and money. All my time and money I'm spending for mankind. I'm looking for adherents.
   Each of supporting evidences needs very many money.  Conclusion evidences are intellectual analysis a lot of scientific works. Geoforces are criminal forces, I’m investigating tracks and traces of criminal forces, conclusion evidences are necessary.
   200 years of research and a wealth of data are supported by my theory as well as all main versions about K/T event.
1.   EB geotransfer means rapid movement of huge thick continental plateforms.
2.   EB geotransfer means destruction almost all thin lithosphere plateforms of oceans.
3.   EB geotransfer means chemical poisoning of ocean waters
4.   EB geotransfer means Giant tsunamis
5.   EB geotransfer means a lot of acid rains
6.   EB geotransfer means change in sea levels
7.   EB geotransfer means changes in atmospheric chemistry (chemical poisoning of whole atmosphere by  poisoning and suffocating gaseous streams)
8.   EB geotransfer means global volcanic activity.
9.   EB geotransfer means alive boiling almost all species of seas and oceans.
10. EB geotransfer means poisoning and suffocating almost all species on the continents.
11. EB geotransfer means huge putrefaction all over the Earth and into all seas and oceans. (Epidemic disease)
12. EB geotransfer means overridden movements thin lithosphere platforms on the each other and on the thick continental platforms too.
13. EB geotransfer means fossils of ammonites to the Everest.
14. EB geotransfer means huge folded geolayers of the crust.
15. EB geotransfer means red-hot atmosfere of the Earth with temporary drying
rivers.
16. EB geotransfer means temporary huge thick clouds all over the Earth.
17. EB geotransfer means formation new continental folded structures from destroyed floor tiles of oceans.
18. Asteroid impact means rocks falling out of the sky on the surrounded hemisphere.
...etc
I'll try explain everything. 200 years of research and a wealth of data are not contradict of my arguments. Slowly displacement (drift during peaceful period reason of oceans appear, expand and contract on a geologic timescale) is supported by cosmogeologycal theory as well as all main scientific versions about K/T event.
Important news for scientists is EB geotransfer (rapid movement of outer nocleus masses into asthenosphere) with huge destruction results for lithosphere platforms. (During huge geocatastrophes only)

Although the scientific community's current view is that the K/T boundary was created by a meteorite impact, it is still under debate. The K/T layer has very high amounts of iridium, which is hard to explain by other means than an extraterrestrial origin. This gives us at least two possibilities, namely an isolated major impact or a large meteor shower which would affect the climate in the same way as a single large asteroid.  There are a number of anthropomorphic ideas trying to explain dinosaur extinction:  Epidemic disease, Acid rains, Giant tsunami, Other proposed causes are climatic change (especially cooling and drying), change in sea levels, chemical poisoning of ocean waters, changes in atmospheric chemistry, rocks falling out of the sky, cosmic radiation, and global volcanic activity. All versions are true. They were together reason dinosaurs’ extinction and additional factors too: Only Modern Cosmogeological Theory can explain everything.
  Thank you JimBob, you are best opponent.                       
« Last Edit: 30/09/2007 17:31:38 by K.Margiani »
 

Offline K.Margiani

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« Reply #11 on: 28/09/2007 16:21:49 »
  Wild, unfounded speculation would be a lot closer. :)
1.It means all main scientific versions about K/T event are Wild, unfounded speculation.
2.It means Biblical source about flood is Wild, unfounded speculation.
3.It means data of spacecraft cassini is false.
4. it means George Cuvier's theory is Wild, unfounded speculation.
...etc.
  EB geoforce is wild criminal force,I have proved Existence of this geoforce by my theory.
  Future generation will decide true or false my theory. I don't have money for publication my theory in the England or in the America. I can publish it in Russia but I don't have any interest what russian scientists are thinking about my theory.
I'll send for you my theory as the attach file as soon as possible. Please read my theory attentively and than we'll discuss again.
« Last Edit: 29/09/2007 15:09:02 by K.Margiani »
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #12 on: 14/10/2007 11:03:25 »
Ok if I have a stab at this?

My theory of a gravity driven flow and return system in plants and animals works on density changes. Denser fluids flow down and less dense fluids flow up. This will of course happen wherever density changes take place. This means that when rain falls it creates an upward flow of air we can feel the chill when rain is approaching and watch the wind change. Mist rolling into a valley means air has flown out. Evaporation from the ocean surfaces in Northern Europe and North America causes denser water to sink generating a massive underwater river more than all the rivers in the World put together, which drags up warmer water from the equatorial waters powering the Atlantic Conveyor System. Warmer water-cools also when it arrives at the point of evaporation. A video of this process

A flow and return system in a central heating set up works on density changes in water caused by a heat source and a cooling sink source provided by a coil inside a copper tank.

I have long postulated over tectonic plates moving under a flow and return system in Rocks. The molten core would certainly provide sufficient upward force, coupled together with the pull from the moon and other planets could easily be responsible for the huge violent movements we experience from time to time by accelerating and/or decelerating a flow and return system. We can see mountain ranges rising from the Surface, which according to recent disturbances in Pakistan are anything but stable over time. And we can see underwater lost civilizations as evidence that ground does not just rise but forms troughs also. Another force that needs to be taken into account is the huge amount of tidal water movement and I suspect that magma is pulled by the same forces causing bulges in the land mass, which gives an explanation for the way continents are drawn together and some are observed to be moving apart.

Density changes in Rocks, water, air, and molten metal in furnaces must be affected by gravity! To ignore this is folly.

Andrew K Fletcher
 

Offline K.Margiani

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« Reply #13 on: 14/10/2007 19:16:11 »
Andrew K Fletcher. You are good councilor; I forget about the Moon, I can not agree about other planets influence (0.00…01%). Influence of inner geo-forces is important but gravitation of the moon (tidal force) is additional force. Interaction between lithosphere tiles is excellent topic for investigates. Defect of volume into huge cracks between lithosphere plates is important force and main reason of all movements.
Density changes in Rocks, water, air and in the molten core too. Of course reason is gravitation of the Earth. You are right.
Thank you for your attention.
I've sent for you my theory (attach file)
« Last Edit: 14/10/2007 19:41:46 by K.Margiani »
 

Offline atomball

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« Reply #14 on: 14/10/2007 21:31:33 »
On the topic of plate tectonics, see the following very interesting article from New Scientist magazine:

newbielink:http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg19626255.500-superearths-will-have-plate-tectonics.html [nonactive]
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #15 on: 15/10/2007 08:53:15 »
"The idea is right," says Jack Lissauer of NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, California. "Plate tectonics is more likely on more massive planets."

Quote from the link from atomball. Would appear to fit with growing planets rather than shrinkage or stability in planets.
 

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« Reply #16 on: 15/10/2007 16:14:14 »
http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg19626255.500-superearths-will-have-plate-tectonics.html
Dimitar Sasselov of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and colleagues came to this conclusion after modelling geological processes on planets of various sizes. They found that as planetary mass increases, more heat is trapped and convection increases. As a result the shear stress within the crust increases too and plate thickness decreases. That means the plates are weaker and plate tectonics becomes
 This is true.I think nobody can say (Wild, unfounded speculation would be a lot closer). This is very interesting publication.
According cosmogeological theory all stars have own planetary systems And all planets have four main stage of geological evolution.
 

Offline JimBob

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« Reply #17 on: 16/10/2007 02:19:29 »
BUT there is no evidence that the earth is expanding (satellites and the global navigation network would have detected any - they haven't) The layers of the earth that we know of from seismic interpretations as well as the data gathered by high-accuracy gravimeters does not support either theories.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR EITHER OF YOUR THEORIES!
 

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« Reply #18 on: 16/10/2007 15:55:51 »
I think you are not right.I wrote few axiom of the universe, only.
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #19 on: 16/10/2007 17:01:12 »
Well Jimbob it all depends on how we are looking for evidence. As I pointed out previously, I have seen lots of meteors arriving but never seen a meteor leaving the Earth Surface. Dust settles on the moons surface but does not levitate away and there is no atmosphere to hold it down. Plus the moon is covered in impact marks from larger meteors (presumably) And we know of large impacts here on Earth also, and we did wittness several large objects impacting on Jupitors surface a while back. There is ample evidence if you look for it!
 

Offline Ophiolite

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« Reply #20 on: 17/10/2007 11:19:06 »
Well Jimbob it all depends on how we are looking for evidence.
And we have a pretty good idea of how much material the Earth is gaining (and has gained) from impact by meteor, asteroid, comet, dust, and solar wind. Once the Heavy Bombarment period was over, around 3.9 billion years ago, there was no major gain in mass.
The evidence, Andrew, invalidates your 'theory'.
 

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« Reply #21 on: 17/10/2007 18:37:02 »
Earth is gaining (and has gained)meteor, asteroid, comet, dust, and by solar wind, unbelievable fairy-tale.
    0.00..01% of the earth mass is Meteorites, asteroides and ather guests mass. they are remains of catastrophes (space-bodies) in the solar system.
    evidence: To find Meteorite is very difficult and minimal cost is about few thousand dollars if you can find it. Good luck!
« Last Edit: 17/10/2007 18:44:38 by K.Margiani »
 

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« Reply #22 on: 18/10/2007 08:25:16 »
K.Margiani, I understand the diffculties you have in reading and writing in a foreign language, with a strange alphabet. My Russian is just good enough to allow me to get lost on the Moscow underground.
You appear to have completely misunderstood my lst post. Your remark.
Earth is gaining (and has gained)meteor, asteroid, comet, dust, and by solar wind, unbelievable fairy-tale.
    0.00..01% of the earth mass is Meteorites, asteroides and ather guests mass.
That is exactly the point I am making to Andrew. He believes the Earth is growing significantly due to infalling material. I have pointed out - and you appear to agree with me - that the volume and mass of this material is very small indeed.
 

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« Reply #23 on: 18/10/2007 17:20:17 »
Пaрен я не знаю какой уровен у тебия знание русского языка но если пропойдеш в московском метрополитене можеш позвонить мения на помощ: +995 77440096
I try to explain in english everything for you, because you can never understand my georgian or russian.
  Very many scientists are trying to develop false theory about formatoin and growing Earth by meteorites, asteroides, comets,… etc impact. Young generation of scientists are studying the false and trying to develop science.
Let’s dream, false become true... We are walking to the Miami beach… The beach is fully covered by stony meteorites… Can you believe it… how many money we can earn…
« Last Edit: 19/10/2007 03:19:55 by K.Margiani »
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #24 on: 19/10/2007 09:05:12 »
Margiani

Most meteors atomise as they enter the orbit, but the material that is atomised is dispersed within the Earth's atmosphere. For example, every single drop of rain that has ever hit the Earth has a particle inside it that causes the droplet to form. This is the logic also behind cloud seeding. I put it to you, that these particles can also be part of the way planets grow. It doe’s not have to be a collection of meteorites on a Miami Beach to account for planetary growth.

However, we do know of larger impacts on the Earth, there are photographs of property damaged by meteors on the internet.

The problem with science theory in this area is that we try to relate planetary growth to our own short existence on the planet.

For example. I stand under a bolder that is overhanging precariously in the knowledge that the chances of this boulder falling and crushing me is remote, because it has been there throughout my lifetime and throughout my fathers and grandfathers lifetime, so in all probability it will not fall. But we do know it will fall someday and there have been many examples of people being crushed by landslides, even falling buildings. It is just a question of when not if.

We know tectonic plate movements recycle the rocks by causing a conveyor belt system where the surface is pulled down and more debris is pulled up to replace it. What we don’t know is how often this occurs and how many times the rocks at the surface of the planet have been recycled in this never ending flow and return system.

As mentioned previously, it is thought to be at least 12 times. Again this is a wild guesstamet at best. The argument is that we measure the atomic particles that make up the rocks not the rocks themselves. I very much doubt any measurement that is thought to be able to measure an atomic particle that has been in a molten rock, solidified, crushed under immense force, melted down again, eroded away at a coastline, solidified as sedimentary rock, pulled down again, compressed, heated under compression sufficient to allow components of it to become molten and flow through it. Then be lifted and eroded many more times and finally ending up in a rock that humans measure and date. Struggling to avoid a well used swear word but sorry I don’t believe for one minute that we are smart enough to form an age of the planet from an atomic particle that has been recycled by tectonic plate movements and element erosion processes. 
 

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